Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves

Previous page 1 ... 9 10 1112 13 ... 37 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- ibn Bilal
- Global Moderator
- سلاسي هو المسيح
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #300 - August 11, 2015, 10:25 PM

Deep, bro. But how do you know it's not actually this?
- gal_from_usa
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #301 - August 11, 2015, 11:01 PM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 09:39 PM
...oh well since you're dying to hear it I think I must. Nothing to do with getting it out of me.

In order to understand:

"And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way, and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for him guardians besides Him; and We will gather them together on the day of resurrection on their faces, blind and dumb and deaf; their abode is hell; whenever it subsides We will add to their burning." 17:97

You need to understand the concept of the soul ie who YOU are. What you really are. A human is made up of two things. A soul and a physical body. The soul is real and is something that can talk to itself, reason with itself. Once created will exist forever. It has certain "properties". It cannot see or hear or touch or smell or work out calculations or create things. It experiences enjoyment, sadness, pain (not physical), compassion, humility, anger, peace, excitement, etc. Now to experience these things it needs a body. There is an interface/link between the body and the soul. In order to experience pain the body can be affected to cause pain. In order for the soul to feel happiness the body can affected to cause this. For example by showing it pretty visuals, sweet smells, soothing touches, etc. The soul can be given varying levels of intelligence where intelligence is measured by memory recall, ability to work out calculations, creativity, etc.

Now the soul also has desires such as wanting pleasures, feeling of importance, egotism, etc. the bad stuff. Some souls are always going to be like this. I don't know why but that's just how it is. Some souls will realise this and try to correct themselves. Some souls hate this and are really "good". When God says he will guide some and cause/leave others to err he is saying that he knows your soul and he knows whether it is worth saving from Hellfire. The souls that reach Hell will never correct themselves. They will say sorry but when you let them off/forgive them they will return to their bad ways. So even though the experience hellfire and are returned to earth they will go back to doing bad instead of making the effort to make themselves good. Why did God create a bad soul? I have no idea. That's just how it is.

The idea of a soul explains why most things in creation fear God. The earth, stars, mountains, animals, etc. all have a soul. There are verses in the Quran which mention talking ants and birds, rocks sinking due to the fear of God, mountains fearing God, sun/moon prostrating. It's bizarre and hard to believe, I know I've been there myself.

To kind of get an idea about the soul do this. Find a very quite place, close your eyes, and think. That's you the soul, the thing which is talking to itself. That voice in your head, your conscious.

Everything you have in the life of this world is temporary. The houses, cars, friends, kids, family, job, money, beauty, love, relationships, etc. For the vast majority of us everything in this life is to test your soul, to learn about God to learn who you really are.

So you're a disciple of Plato, in particular of the Christianization of Plato's works. Good for you. You think that's new and exciting, not tired and rehashed, but whatever. Guess that also explains why you believe in nearly 2500 year old ideas of "science," including it being a philosophy and a belief and instead of a process of observation and trial and error, and not having any idea what modern science has to say on any issue. And why you're a geocentrist and shit.

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 09:39 PM

So to summarise again the meaning of the verse only those souls which God deems worth saving will be saved. How can you save yourself? Be honest, kind, humble, caring, helping, gentle, fearing, patient. Don't mock, or be arrogant, selfish, greedy, materialistic. That way if as an atheist you are wrong you have a backup which may save you. At the end of the day you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Well I guess you're the first among the damned then.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #302 - August 12, 2015, 02:04 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 08:14 AM
It's not gravity that makes the dust bunnies get bigger and bigger. Read the research provided by dr sloth.

I don't care what it is caused by. I am no scientist. I am just saying, it happens right here on Earth. No zero gravity required, that dust masses are becoming larger and larger without any manipulation by Man.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #303 - August 12, 2015, 02:11 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 08:28 AM
This is a tired old argument which has been proven to be wrong many many times. Please just google it.

I don't think I can easily Google "Why does CallMeTed deny verses in Quran?" Because it is not out there. I tried. I was asking you, as a person, rather than the universe.
Because I want to understand why you do this. I know why I used to do it, but why do you?

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #304 - August 12, 2015, 02:24 AM

Quote from: happymurtad on August 11, 2015, 07:55 PM
Refresh my memory. What happens again if God decides not to guide me?

Well, I dunno 'bout y'all, but what happened to me was that my whole life changed.
Yesterday, instead of attending Asr, I loaded up the van with some neighbors and all my kids and we took an injured baby squirrel a very long drive away to the closest wildlife rehabilitator.
After we dropped off the squirrel and checked on a previous rescue (doing well, fat!) we drove back a long way to the local Wendy's, which is not halal. There all the children had kid's meals and I helped them with their fries.
Then, instead of Maghrib, we tumbled back into the van, high on Frostys, and drove to our neighborhood, where we updated the rest of the neighbors on the squirrels fate and then rode bikes around the complex like fiends before going inside for the evening.
We read a book by Judy Blume instead of Isha and I never did my Witr.
There was not one salaam. No dhikr.
I did shake my fist at a squirrel and call it Shaitan. For not picking up it's baby when it dropped it in the first place. As you can see I have been led astray, and have thoroughly succumbed to temptation and also perpetuated fitna. I am among the lost.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- bogart
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #305 - August 12, 2015, 06:17 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 06:49 PM
Excellent. So how do you verify something is an unnatural force?

It is up to you to figure this out not I. It is your claim.

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 07:25 PM
Again it comes back to what criteria you use to verify God. How do you verify he has infinite power? How do you verify that he created you? I don't think you can grasp this point yet.

If you can not verify your claims with support then your claims are empty religious rhetoric.

Quote
If a person makes a claim that their god is the one who goes to the supermarket and buys them food, who says kind words to the, who is alive and comes to visit them daily. Then that is their god since those things meet their requirement of their god. Hence Thor, Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, a tree, a rock can all be a gods to that person or persons. There are also people who make money their god and their desires. As a "Muslim" I believe in my concept of God to be true - hence I clearly defined my God (incidentally Allah comes from Al- ilah which means The god). I believe this because of my own thinking. I was not born a Muslim I chose it. The concept of the Quranic/Biblical God for me is correct. If it turns out to be false then so be it. What I am doing is challenging and questioning the God of the Quran and Bible just as he says so. So far I have not come across a single thing makes me doubt this God. There are things which I still don't understand but they are nothing which makes me doubt the God of the Quran/Bible.

Mentioned religious rhetoric. The identification of human reactions for a God was the point. Also if subjective standards are acceptable for God then all claims for God are correct. Hence why your belief is worthless as a proposition.
- Helaine
- Not Religious
- Member
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #306 - August 12, 2015, 06:19 AM

Everybody is brainwashed by science, and research proves that science is wrong (LOL?) and therefore, Quran is right. Without any kind of evidence, you just explained about what you think is true, this truly generic explanations that every single muslims believe. However, despite not posessing greater knowledge than the average muslims, the truth is still beyond other believers and atheists.

Whenever someone else speak in philosophical jargons that you dont understand, it is because they learned such knowledge from lizard people and it couldnt possibly be anything to do with reality.

Everybody else is brainwashed and deluded. However, you and your beliefs don't need evidence or research to show that it is true, because by default your understanding of universe is right.

So, are we finished? Did I miss anything?
- bogart
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #307 - August 12, 2015, 06:20 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 07:30 PM
What double-standards?

Are you saying that because the God of the Quran does things like humans do then he is not God?

Different rules of treatment between believer and non-believer. For example allow apostasy from another religion to Islam while holding to the death penalty when it is Islam to another religion.

Human reactions to people's actions is an indication that the concept of God you hold is flawed. Just as the Aztecs found out when they challenged their presupposition. Something which you seem to never do.
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #308 - August 12, 2015, 08:13 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 11, 2015, 09:39 PM
...oh well since you're dying to hear it I think I must. Nothing to do with getting it out of me.

In order to understand:

Quote
"And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way, and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for him guardians besides Him; and We will gather them together on the day of resurrection on their faces, blind and dumb and deaf; their abode is hell; whenever it subsides We will add to their burning." 17:97

You need to understand the concept of the soul ie who YOU are. What you really are. A human is made up of two things. A soul and a physical body. The soul is real and is something that can talk to itself, reason with itself. Once created will exist forever. It has certain "properties". It cannot see or hear or touch or smell or work out calculations or create things. It experiences enjoyment, sadness, pain (not physical), compassion, humility, anger, peace, excitement, etc. Now to experience these things it needs a body. There is an interface/link between the body and the soul. In order to experience pain the body can be affected to cause pain. In order for the soul to feel happiness the body can affected to cause this. For example by showing it pretty visuals, sweet smells, soothing touches, etc. The soul can be given varying levels of intelligence where intelligence is measured by memory recall, ability to work out calculations, creativity, etc.

Now the soul also has desires such as wanting pleasures, feeling of importance, egotism, etc. the bad stuff. Some souls are always going to be like this. I don't know why but that's just how it is. Some souls will realise this and try to correct themselves. Some souls hate this and are really "good". When God says he will guide some and cause/leave others to err he is saying that he knows your soul and he knows whether it is worth saving from Hellfire. The souls that reach Hell will never correct themselves. They will say sorry but when you let them off/forgive them they will return to their bad ways. So even though the experience hellfire and are returned to earth they will go back to doing bad instead of making the effort to make themselves good. Why did God create a bad soul? I have no idea. That's just how it is.

The idea of a soul explains why most things in creation fear God. The earth, stars, mountains, animals, etc. all have a soul. There are verses in the Quran which mention talking ants and birds, rocks sinking due to the fear of God, mountains fearing God, sun/moon prostrating. It's bizarre and hard to believe, I know I've been there myself.

To kind of get an idea about the soul do this. Find a very quite place, close your eyes, and think. That's you the soul, the thing which is talking to itself. That voice in your head, your conscious.

Everything you have in the life of this world is temporary. The houses, cars, friends, kids, family, job, money, beauty, love, relationships, etc. For the vast majority of us everything in this life is to test your soul, to learn about God to learn who you really are.

So to summarise again the meaning of the verse only those souls which God deems worth saving will be saved. How can you save yourself? Be honest, kind, humble, caring, helping, gentle, fearing, patient. Don't mock, or be arrogant, selfish, greedy, materialistic. That way if as an atheist you are wrong you have a backup which may save you. At the end of the day you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

...and all that was written by Ted for this simple verse from Quran

"And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way, and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for him guardians besides Him; and We will gather them together on the day of resurrection on their faces, blind and dumb and deaf; their abode is hell; whenever it subsides We will add to their burning." 17:97

fantastic post ... and it is fairly certain that "Call me Ted" is either a recent convert or recently started reading Quran Tafsir... with that let me give a link to Ted The Book of Faith_Sahih Muslim
Quote
0270: It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Islam initiated as something strange, and it would revert to its (old position) of being strange. so good tidings for the stranger.

0272: It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Verily the faith would recede to Medina just as the serpent crawls back into its hole.

I wonder what Ted says on those two verses from Islamic scriptures...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #309 - August 12, 2015, 08:25 AM

This is interesting.... Those two statements from hadith are often repeated in the hadith books in different ways ..
Quote
:............“Belief returns and goes back to Medina like a snake.” ........(Sahih Bukhari, 3.30.100.)

“Muslims will be the scum and the rubbish even though their numbers may increase; the enemy will not fear Muslims anymore. This will be because the Muslims will love the world and dislike death"…......(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 37.4284.)

“Muhammad’s contemporaries were the best Muslims; after three generations, the Muslims will be mainly treacherous and untrustworthy.” (Sahih Bukhari, 5.57.2, 3.)

“There will be much killing during the last days of the Muslim.”.... (Sahih Bukhari, 9.88.183.)

“Verily, Belief returns and goes back to Medina as a snake returns and goes back to its hole (when in danger).” .....................(Volume 3, Book 30, Number 100: Narrated Abu Huraira.)

“Muslims will diminish in number and they will go back to where they started [before Islam” .................. (Sunaan Abu Dawud, 2.19.3029.)

“There will be no trace of Islam in some believers…” .......... (Sahih Bukhari, 9.84.65.)

Alleged Prophet of Islam predicts "Islam crawling back like a snake to where it came from" . I wonder will it be done in 21st century? who knows "Allah knows the best"

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #310 - August 12, 2015, 08:40 AM

So my good friend Ted is taking a verse from Quran and writing Tafsir.... sometimes back in 2010 at this link http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10181.msg261962#msg261962 I selected few words/verses from Quran
Quote
Ta Seen Meem.[Al Quran ; 28:1]

Ta Seen, [Al Quran ; 27:1]

Ta Seen Meem [Al Quran ; 26:1]

Ta Ha. [Al Quran ; 20:1]

Kaf Ha Ya Ein Sad. [Al Quran ; 19:1]

Alif Lam Ra. [Al Quran ; 15:1]

Alif Lam Ra. [Al Quran ; 14:1]

Alif, Lam, Mim, Ra. [Al Quran ; 13:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 12:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 11:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 10:1]

Alif Lam Meem Sad.[Al Quran ; 7:1]

Alif Lam Meem.[Al Quran ; 3:1]

Alif Lam Meem.[Al Quran ; 2:1]

and i wrote something at that link., So I wonder what Ted will write on those verses from Quran...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #311 - August 12, 2015, 08:43 AM

Quote from: bogart on August 12, 2015, 06:20 AM
Different rules of treatment between believer and non-believer. For example allow apostasy from another religion to Islam while holding to the death penalty when it is Islam to another religion.

Human reactions to people's actions is an indication that the concept of God you hold is flawed. Just as the Aztecs found out when they challenged their presupposition. Something which you seem to never do.

There is no apostasy in the Quran. It's a tired old argument which has been dealt with many times. Feel free to google it. You are expected to be honest and truthful and not to follow blindly.

"Human reactions to people's actions is an indication that the concept of God you hold is flawed" - Why don't you offer an alternative suggestion? You seem very smart and thoughtful. Or maybe you think like galfromusa where someone should try and guess what makes her tick?

Edit: To clarify, when I say there is no apostasy in the Quran I mean there is no capital punishment mentioned which believers need to apply to the apostates. Apostates are free to renounce religion in their community. Believers are warned to guard themselves and not stray away from God. If they do that's there choice and they will face the consequences. This is not a threat that if you don't believe blindly you will be punished. Believers are asked to question their religion and be satisfied that it is the truth.

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #312 - August 12, 2015, 08:55 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 08:43 AM
There is no apostasy in the Quran. ........

Can you also say "There is No apostasy in Islam?? and would you like to say it in Mosque?

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 08:43 AM
..........................

"Human reactions to people's actions is an indication that the concept of God you hold is flawed" - .......................

Ted just a correction...

"god or the concept of god" doesn't control bogart

It is people like you who loose control of your thoughts due to this god thingy in your brain and consequently loose control over what you guys do in the name of god . All this is due to some narrations in some silly books that were written by some cave dwellers some 2000 years ago..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #313 - August 12, 2015, 09:13 AM

Quote from: Helaine on August 12, 2015, 06:19 AM
Everybody is brainwashed by science, and research proves that science is wrong (LOL?) and therefore, Quran is right. Without any kind of evidence, you just explained about what you think is true, this truly generic explanations that every single muslims believe. However, despite not posessing greater knowledge than the average muslims, the truth is still beyond other believers and atheists.

Whenever someone else speak in philosophical jargons that you dont understand, it is because they learned such knowledge from lizard people and it couldnt possibly be anything to do with reality.

Everybody else is brainwashed and deluded. However, you and your beliefs don't need evidence or research to show that it is true, because by default your understanding of universe is right.

So, are we finished? Did I miss anything?

I've asked many times for you guys to put forward what kind of evidence you want to see and none of you came forward. Are you forgetting that? Instead you wanted me to come up with suggestions. Someone even said that they would not consider the earth being the center of the universe with all the stars and galaxies spinning around it as evidence of God. Don't you find that bizarre? Every evidence for God could be considered as a "God of the gaps" evidence. Are you getting the picture?

Anyway I did come up with a suggestion and it seemed to be worth considering even though others may disagree and consider it a God of the gaps argument. This was to do with finding out that the earth's crust is in fact floating on water and that the only immovable things are the mountains. The member would consider this as evidence as it's something that they would consider as being a new discovery. However I'm pretty sure if scientific evidence did show that the earth's crust was floating on water the member would say this is coincidence by Mohammed and that he probably got the idea from a myth he heard.

At the end of the day I am learning that there is nothing that will convince an atheist if he doe not want to believe.

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #314 - August 12, 2015, 09:25 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 12, 2015, 08:55 AM

Can you also say "There is No apostasy in Islam?? and would you like to say it in Mosque?

Yes there is no apostasy in Islam. Islam comes from the Quran not any hadiths. If people want to create Islam from hadiths it's there choice. They will be questioned for their actions. Did the learn the Quran, did they take that as their guide or did they take another book ie hadiths as their guide and if they did was the Quran not enough.

I would say in a Mosque which had good followers. It's foolish to say something in a place where you know people may get very upset or react violently. As a believer the goal is to make yourself a better person, to become closer to God, to go out there and deliberately suffer and strive and help those who need help irrespective of their beliefs. If you're doing that you're not going to have much time to debate/discuss subjective matters. Doing good deeds makes you feel good so why waste your time doing things which will make you angry, upset, sad, confused?

I'm here on this forum to have my beliefs challenged robustly. I doubt they would be challenged much by people who simply agree with everything I say. I am very happy to have learnt that dust does not simply collapse and form a joined mass and there has been proper scientific research on this. I would never have known this if some member has not made me think about it.

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #315 - August 12, 2015, 09:26 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 09:13 AM
............Don't you find that bizarre? Every evidence for God could be considered as a "God of the gaps" evidence. Are you getting the picture?................

Ted you are not getting the picture., but that is OK., we understnd you and your problems And Ted that is because all the evidence you delusional minds present is NOT evidence .

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #316 - August 12, 2015, 09:39 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 09:25 AM
Yes there is no apostasy in Islam. Islam comes from the Quran not any hadiths.

Ted I tell you this., You have NOT read Quran neither you understand the origins of Quran., The Alleged collection process of Quran verses that made in to that silly book is actually very similar to hadith . Would you like to read Quran with me verse by verse chapter by chapter? I have done that umpteen times

Quote
If people want to create Islam from hadiths it's there choice. They will be questioned for their actions.

by who? when where? .. Ted get over the delusional mindset soul and soul burning in hell..

Quote
Did the learn the Quran, did they take that as their guide or did they take another book ie hadiths as their guide and if they did was the Quran not enough.

Again if you take out all those OT/NT stories from Quran, the process of collating Quran as a book is similar to hadith

Quote
I would say in a Mosque which had good followers. It's foolish to say something in a place where you know people may get very upset or react violently.

well Open your own MOSQUE become an Imam or mullah and start preaching..

Quote
As a believer the goal is to make yourself a better person, to become closer to God, to go out there and deliberately suffer and strive and help those who need help irrespective of their beliefs. If you're doing that you're not going to have much time to debate/discuss subjective matters. Doing good deeds makes you feel good so why waste your time doing things which will make you angry, upset, sad, confused?

you neither need god/voodoo doll in your brain nor you need some silly statements from silly books to be a good person.. somewhere in one of your posts you put out "Golden rule" that is good enough ..

Quote
I'm here on this forum to have my beliefs challenged robustly. I doubt they would be challenged much by people who simply agree with everything I say. I am very happy to have learnt that dust does not simply collapse and form a joined mass and there has been proper scientific research on this. I would never have known this if some member has not made me think about it.

No one can do that to you as long as you are running around souls, dolls and hell fire .. you posted a classic response to happy Murtad Ted.. read it again..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #317 - August 12, 2015, 09:54 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 12, 2015, 09:39 AM
Would you like to read Quran with me verse by verse chapter by chapter? I have done that umpteen times

Sure, feel free to create another topic.

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- bogart
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #318 - August 12, 2015, 10:08 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 08:43 AM
There is no apostasy in the Quran. It's a tired old argument which has been dealt with many times. Feel free to google it. You are expected to be honest and truthful and not to follow blindly.

So you reject Hadith?

I can equally tell you to Google counter arguments. So if your arguments are reduced to Google X then I am left to my own judgement of these arguments. I have no need of any dialogue with you since your arguments are unstated and lack citations. I can Google one argument, find a counter argument for that, decide which one is correct. I can then impose this argument as your own, after all you left me free to pick your argument for you based on a search engine. I have judged your argument to be fallacious and in error. *Yawn*

Quote
"Human reactions to people's actions is an indication that the concept of God you hold is flawed" - Why don't you offer an alternative suggestion? You seem very smart and thoughtful. Or maybe you think like galfromusa where someone should try and guess what makes her tick?

Edit: To clarify, when I say there is no apostasy in the Quran I mean there is no capital punishment mentioned which believers need to apply to the apostates. Apostates are free to renounce religion in their community. Believers are warned to guard themselves and not stray away from God. If they do that's there choice and they will face the consequences. This is not a threat that if you don't believe blindly you will be punished. Believers are asked to question their religion and be satisfied that it is the truth.

See above.

A threat of violence for doubting a claim is punished, that is the point. The threat can be Hell, it does not need to be a human construct based on hadith. You also missed the point that is about both belief and disbelief. As with the Aztecs people face claim that is presented as either true or false due to dogma and doctrine. Both have a representation that is thought to be of/from God. Both use the human condition and it's products such as culture, science, etc to measure the claims. Just as the Aztecs I see a human construct comprised of human ideas, thoughts, experiences, actions, culture and history.

You have done little to support your points beside empty statements.
- bogart
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #319 - August 12, 2015, 10:11 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 09:13 AM

At the end of the day I am learning that there is nothing that will convince an atheist if he doe not want to believe.

You only propose hypothetical scenarios. You think rejecting your imagined examples is out of the ordinary
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #320 - August 12, 2015, 10:19 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 09:54 AM
Sure, feel free to create another topic.

that will be wonderful .. let us focus on Quran Ted.. a Chapter a day.. all 114 chapters .. all 6600 or so verses.... So if we focus we can do 100 verses day we will finish in 66 days ..

Are you ready to do that dear Ted? And I agree with you INSULT THE IDIOTS ACROSS THE GLOBE WHO USE HADITH IN ISLAM.. BURN THAT FUCKING SHIT HADITH RIGHT ON THE FOOT STEPS OF MOSQUES.

And I don't mind ., and I SUPPORT Muslim folks using Quran in their lives without that BULLSHIT HADITH.. . As any faith heads(there are billions of them) Muslim folks must have that freedom to use Quran to do good to the society and must have freedom to pray their allah/their god whatever... however delusional it may be..

But playing politics with their faith WILL NOT BE ALLOWED.. and I still reserve the freedom for me and for other..for alll to criticise any book

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #321 - August 12, 2015, 10:31 AM

Quote from: bogart on August 12, 2015, 10:08 AM
So you reject Hadith?

I can equally tell you to Google counter arguments. So if your arguments are reduced to Google X then I am left to my own judgement of these arguments. I have no need of any dialogue with you since your arguments are unstated and lack citations. I can Google one argument, find a counter argument for that, decide which one is correct. I can then impose this argument as your own, after all you left me free to pick your argument for you based on a search engine. I have judged your argument to be fallacious and in error. *Yawn*

See above.

A threat of violence for doubting a claim is punished, that is the point. The threat can be Hell, it does not need to be a human construct based on hadith. You also missed the point that is about both belief and disbelief. As with the Aztecs people face claim that is presented as either true or false due to dogma and doctrine. Both have a representation that is thought to be of/from God. Both use the human condition and it's products such as culture, science, etc to measure the claims. Just as the Aztecs I see a human construct comprised of human ideas, thoughts, experiences, actions, culture and history.

You have done little to support your points beside empty statements.

I don't reject all the hadiths. I accept those that support the Quran. Yes I do expect you to go and Google. At the end of the day it will always come down to your judgement. I've clearly pointed out where I stand on apostasy, it's up to you to counter argue it if you believe I am wrong. You need to understand why those who support capital punishment for apostasy agree with it. I can't guess why you disagree or agree with it. I don't know what your questions are. I clearly said there is no capital punishment mentioned in the Quran for it. Now if you think otherwise then tell me. If you think the Quran has a verse which says kill the apostate then show me and we can take it from there.

Yes, you have no need of dialog with me. The books are out there go and read and believe or disbelieve whatever you feel like. Don't take my word for it or others. It's for you to find out and convince yourself.

As I have asked many times before what kind of evidence do you want to see?

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #322 - August 12, 2015, 10:36 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 12, 2015, 10:19 AM
that will be wonderful .. let us focus on Quran Ted.. a Chapter a day.. all 114 chapters .. all 6600 or so verses.... So if we focus we can do 100 verses day we will finish in 66 days ..

Are you ready to do that dear Ted? And I agree with you INSULT THE IDIOTS ACROSS THE GLOBE WHO USE HADITH IN ISLAM.. BURN THAT FUCKING SHIT HADITH RIGHT ON THE FOOT STEPS OF MOSQUES.

And I don't mind ., and I SUPPORT Muslim folks using Quran in their lives without that BULLSHIT HADITH.. . As any faith heads(there are billions of them) Muslim folks must have that freedom to use Quran to do good to the society and must have freedom to pray their allah/their god whatever... however delusional it may be..

But playing politics with their faith WILL NOT BE ALLOWED.. and I still reserve the freedom for me and for other..for alll to criticise any book

I can't promise to be done in 66 days. It will take however long it takes.

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #323 - August 12, 2015, 10:55 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 10:36 AM
I can't promise to be done in 66 days. It will take however long it takes.

that is all right Ted... let us do that..

And..,,and don't forget to INSULT THE ISLAMIC IDIOTS on line in person at dinner place that use hadith to defend their Islam and Islamic actions..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- CallMeTed
- Y U NO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE?!!!
- Restricted
- World's Best Islamic Scholar
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #324 - August 12, 2015, 11:11 AM

By insulting others you are just showing how uncaring you are or maybe arrogant.

God says in the Quran to always have good conduct.

My nasheed. Sing it with me!
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #325 - August 12, 2015, 11:17 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 11:11 AM
By insulting others you are just showing how uncaring you are or maybe arrogant.

Ted I am sorry., I am not gong to respect Idiots who use their so-called religions/scriptures to kill others and to kill those who question them ., use their religions for their loot, booty and looting society

Quote
God says in the Quran to always have good conduct.

sure why god of the human brain?? I can see that in the eyes of Penguins of Antarctic that have no language..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ3hlrEfLbw

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Helaine
- Not Religious
- Member
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #326 - August 12, 2015, 11:30 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 09:13 AM
I've asked many times for you guys to put forward what kind of evidence you want to see and none of you came forward.

Because it is a bizzare question, why wouldn't the divine know what would convince me?

What would convince you that Vishnu, Shiva, and Brahman (as all lesser Gods) exist, that they are many and not one?

What would make you believe that Jesus is truly the Son of God and Holy Ghosts actually DO exist?

I would believe it when I see it. How about you?

Quote
Someone even said that they would not consider the earth being the center of the universe with all the stars and galaxies spinning around it as evidence of God. Don't you find that bizarre? Every evidence for God could be considered as a "God of the gaps" evidence. Are you getting the picture?

Don't you find it bizzare that you don't actually have any empirical proof of God's existence?

If writing things make it true, then unicorn, Santa Claus, and Kalongwewe really do exist? Don't you get presents if you behave well as a kid? Isn't it dangerous for kids to go out at nights? All of these are true, so why don't these mythical creatures exist?

So have you read the Vedas and converted into Hinduism because of the breadth and vast scientific miracles that they have? What about Sikhism and Jainism?

Why haven't you worshipped Zeus already, considering they discovered so many things that you can use as evidence of their Gods?

Quote
This was to do with finding out that the earth's crust is in fact floating on water and that the only immovable things are the mountains. The member would consider this as evidence as it's something that they would consider as being a new discovery. However I'm pretty sure if scientific evidence did show that the earth's crust was floating on water the member would say this is coincidence by Mohammed and that he probably got the idea from a myth he heard.

Why exactly would that be the evidence for God, much less YOUR God??

I too can make prophecies :

1. Humans would reach greater heights of mobility, intelligence, and health than never before.
2. Time will come for falsehood to disappear, as truth will prevail and banish the liars.
3. Lives will be born from the dead - the ignorant will hate and punish you as they see fit. Be strong!
4. As they learn that they have come from their animal counterparts, some will disbelieve and seek ignorance.

... etc

Now would you worship Odin as our lord and savior? The Ice Giants have been banished, but they are coming back!

Quote
At the end of the day I am learning that there is nothing that will convince an atheist if he doe not want to believe.

What would convince you otherwise?
- gal_from_usa
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #327 - August 12, 2015, 11:54 AM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 08:43 AM
You seem very smart and thoughtful. Or maybe you think like galfromusa where someone should try and guess what makes her tick?

Well, for the past two weeks, what I've been saying is basically limited to how much I can type before I start losing water out an orifice, fall asleep, or lose the ability to pay attention because of being so dizzy or being in so much pain. I've been really quite ill. Most of the time what makes me tick is pretty straightforward, I like intelligence, I like learning, I like reading and analyzing religious texts, I like studying the real histories of the texts as opposed to the stories that were spun about them. I know liturgical Hebrew and have a degree in social work (basically community-based psychology) with a minor in sociology (would have minored in psychology but it required a psychoneuroimmunology course, and I'd already taken an overview course and didn't want to take a senior level one). I'm perfectly happy to go do some research if I have the stamina. My idea of a fun way to spend an afternoon is researching and writing an eight to fifteen page essay, and I'm interested in a wide array of topics. And I hate people who obfuscate to hide their willful ignorance or deception.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- gal_from_usa
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #328 - August 12, 2015, 12:15 PM

Quote from: CallMeTed on August 12, 2015, 11:09 AM

Can humans create life from scratch? Should it be possible for humans to create life from scratch? Is life created through natural processes?

I refer you back to this comment in which I already answered and said that we have created life from scratch, both biological/chemically based life and electronic based life:

Quote from: gal_from_usa on August 09, 2015, 10:08 AM
I disagree with your definition of life being non-replicating and/or chemically based (or are you saying it's not chemically based? I'm confused). Most forms of life we can observe obviously can and do self-replicate, and that includes humans, so humans do replicate life, through procreation. It's not like every time a baby is conceived, God can briefly be seen tinkering in a woman's vagina (or a petri dish, increasingly). If you believe God CAN be observed taking part in this action, do provide some evidence.

As for life being chemically based, I don't think that's true. I believe an AI can be alive and a good case can be made that a computer virus is alive. And they're not biological machines in the way we are, despite being alive. And that is a product of the environment in which they were created and live being cybernetic instead of chemical. We live in a world with tons of chemicals that have come together over billions of years, with living beings existing in billions of combinations. Every second, billions of new organisms begin to exist--animal, vegetable, fungus, bacteria, etc--each one of them trying a slightly different combination of genes than the last generation to see if that combination is adaptable to the environment they find themselves in. And a whole lot of them fail. But some succeed, and they go on to make more copies of themselves, and the process continues.

In addition to the aforementioned computer virus life and possibly other AI life, there is also this: http://www.jcvi.org/cms/press/press-releases/full-text/article/first-self-replicating-synthetic-bacterial-cell-constructed-by-j-craig-venter-institute-researcher/home/

Scientists HAVE created synthetic biological life. Your ignorance does not make your point more accurate. As for "why it's not possible to create life", even if that were true, it would be a philosophical debate and not a scientific one.

As it happens I know quite a bit about the human genome project and other projects involving those scientists and that material because it was done in my hometown, so it was always on the local news as I was growing up. In fact, the headquarters of the human genome project is right across the street from the hospital I was born in and has a parking lot that is right next to the parking lot of my uni (but theirs is closed off with a guarded gate and big fence because they constantly receive threats by creationists). Very pretty building.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
Reply #329 - August 12, 2015, 03:43 PM

HasTedBundytakenourGalfromtheUS and replaced her with Underscore gal?

Hi
Previous page 1 ... 9 10 1112 13 ... 37 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »