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 Topic: Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.

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  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #30 - August 17, 2015, 11:57 AM
    Quote
    Why does it make sense that a pagan god would require worship but not make sense that a sky father god would?


    The prayer ritual reminded me of pagan practices, every time i prayed i felt like i was taken back thousands of years prostrating to the sun god, in order to gain favours, didnt feel natural to me like a personal prayer would.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #31 - August 17, 2015, 02:48 PM
    Makes more sense to worship the sun than allah in my opinion. The sun is real and the source of all life on this planet. We'd be fucked without it. Plus, no bullshit. The sun doesn't ask me for anything, I don't ask it for anything. We both just keep doing what we do, no fuss, no muss.

    George Carlin puts it best at 6:40. Whole thing is well worth a listen to though.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #32 - August 17, 2015, 03:36 PM
    lol, true  : )   If I wanted inspiration I would get in from nature these days, not from a book, reminds me of one of my old favourite sayings:


    Quote
    "To the eye of the seer every leaf of the tree is a page of the holy book that contains divine revelation, and he is inspired every moment of his life by constantly reading and understanding the holy script of nature."



  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #33 - August 17, 2015, 03:40 PM
    Quote
    If I wanted inspiration I would get in from nature these days

    Me too.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #34 - August 17, 2015, 03:41 PM
    Lol
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #35 - August 17, 2015, 03:41 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 16, 2015, 10:45 PM
    What was your primary reason for leaving Islam?


    btw in addition to what I said earlier, I should point out that I am a Muslim. (I used to be the user "Peace" on ummah.com.)

    I did lose my faith for a while, but recently rediscovered it, though my beliefs have changed somewhat. If you are interested you can see more on my "Agnostic Muslim" blog here:

    http://agnosticmuslimkhutbahs.blogspot.co.uk/

    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 16, 2015, 10:45 PM
    I am not sure if everything I have said has made me apostate but if I decided to leave the religion officially, I would have several reason with sexism probably being the primary one.


    It's completely up to you whether you want to continue to identify as a Muslim or not. What I will say say is you don't HAVE to do one or the other and neither road is a bed of roses.

    Many, however, do find that life has got a lot better for them once they finally took that step - though of course there will inevitably be difficulties to face.

    On the other hand I now know of quite a few who decided to stay as a Muslim but be a force for change and reinterpretation. That's the path I have taken as I feel more comfortable identifying as a Muslim as it has been such a huge part of my life for so long - and like all religions there is good as well as bad - and I think it is in our hands to make that change.

    In fact I gave a Khutbah about this very topic last Friday (Yes I give Khutbahs Smiley ) - you can find it here:

    http://agnosticmuslimkhutbahs.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/i-am-as-my-servant-thinks-of-me.html
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #36 - August 17, 2015, 03:44 PM
    edit - i posted the link above instead.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #37 - August 17, 2015, 03:48 PM
    If you find yourself being trapped by a fear of hell, this might help:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOxDssdJ_3g
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #38 - August 17, 2015, 03:50 PM
    Quote from: Qtian on August 17, 2015, 03:40 PM
    Me too.

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Keep away from drugs. They don't help in the long run and can do a great deal of harm.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #39 - August 17, 2015, 03:54 PM
    Thanks Hassan, though you haven't told me anything that I didn't already know.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #40 - August 17, 2015, 03:55 PM
    Quote from: Qtian on August 17, 2015, 03:40 PM
    Me too.

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    too funny,  I get my inspiration from fermented grapes
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #41 - August 17, 2015, 03:57 PM
    Quote from: Qtian on August 17, 2015, 03:54 PM
    Thanks Hassan, though you haven't told me anything that I didn't already know.


    No doubt, but as the Qur'an says: ان نفعت الذكرى "the reminder may benefit" Wink
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #42 - August 17, 2015, 04:04 PM
    btw agirlwithdoubts - I couldn't help taking a look at ummah.com after you said you asked questions there and found this thread which I'm guessing is the one:

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?448176-I-am-having-some-very-serious-doubts-which-I-need-to-address-(

    I see what you mean about some not being very helpful, but as you rightly say there are some decent posters there too.

    I saw this one by the user: onetimeuser - who reprimanded one of the ones calling you names - as well as referring to this thread on CEMB:

    eaurens, please be kind to people. Calling them apostates is not the solution for someone who is teetering on the brink of faith and kufr. A lot of Muslims are having these doubts today and being gentle and kind to them is key towards guiding them back. It's frightening and confusing to have doubts about your faith (I've been there and Alhamdulillah, I found my way to Islam). I'm not sure if this thread was started by the same sister who posted on the "Council for Ex-muslims" website about considering leaving Islam, but if it is, please do not leave Islam. Your notions regarding women's rights are skewed and need to be addressed by a scholar in-person, and not by someone on the internet. I also believe that each one of us should encourage this sister towards not leaving Islam in a gentle and kind manner by guiding her to renowned scholars of Islam. Her thread was posted yesterday on the website for "Council of Ex-muslims".
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #43 - August 17, 2015, 04:06 PM
    Quote from: Hassan


    Audhubillah, brother. Does our holy Qur'an not also state the following:

    Quote
    Lakum deenakum waliya deen


    ???
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #44 - August 17, 2015, 04:07 PM
    lol...  Yes it does... touché  Afro
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #45 - August 17, 2015, 04:37 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 17, 2015, 04:04 PM
    btw agirlwithdoubts - I couldn't help taking a look at ummah.com after you said you asked questions there and found this thread which I'm guessing is the one:

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?448176-I-am-having-some-very-serious-doubts-which-I-need-to-address-(

    Every time I click it it says 504 Gateway Time-out. Dunno if somethings up with ummah or if they're in the process of getting rid of the thread.

    Girl, Hassan's khutbahs are well worth checking out.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #46 - August 17, 2015, 04:38 PM
    AGirlWithDoubts - The way I deal with issues such as the misogyny (verse that allows a man to hit his wife, or the fact that a daughter can only inherit half of that which her brother inherits or that a woman's testimony is half that of a man's or the many other restrictions and rules curtailing a woman's behaviour and freedom in comparison to that of the man's) as well as all the other issues such as eternal Hell and such like - is this way:

    I don't believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God. I am happy to accept that it is inspired by God. I believe everything we are moved to do or create is, in a way, inspired by God. I cannot define God, but I regard him as that "something" that 'force of nature' that 'power behind the cosmos', the 'universal spark of life' within all things - it is this that inspires us to great acts of art, music, literature, poetry, discovery, invention, innovation, heroism etc… But of course these things are still human works and far from perfect or infallible.

    In this sense I believe the Qur'an is inspired by God - yet it is human and fallible. To put it another way I believe the Qur'an is inspired by God, but not authored by God.

    It reflects the mind of Muhammad and the environment in which he lived and so although we can still draw wisdom from it we must a apply our reason to it, especially in light of our much changed circumstances 1400 years later, when the position of women is very different and the relationship between men and women and the roles they play has changed dramatically and continues to change.

    Therefore I believe it is up to us to take what applies or is of relevance and ignore that which is not according to human reason - which although flawed, so it the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a remarkable book - especially when seen in its time and context - but it is very much tied to its time and context. As I say it can still be a source of wisdom, but only if understood in the light of reason.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #47 - August 17, 2015, 04:40 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 17, 2015, 04:37 PM
    Dunno if... they're in the process of getting rid of the thread.


    That's wouldn't surprise me. They are so frightened of allowing any reference to this forum in case we "corrupt" Muslims.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #48 - August 17, 2015, 04:54 PM
    i cant get onto ummah either i was denied access despite changing my password today.. i wanted to read my old posts as a muslim..

    Yes this Khutbah in particular is beautiful, i have similar beliefs
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #49 - August 17, 2015, 05:00 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 17, 2015, 04:38 PM
    The Qur'an is a remarkable book - especially when seen in its time and context - but it is very much tied to its time and context. As I say it can still be a source of wisdom, but only if understood in the light of reason.

    Is the quran actually that remarkable though? I can't say I was impressed when I read it. There was nothing that really stood out to me as being unique to the quran (except perhaps the rantings about non muslims) that you couldn't find elsewhere. Granted unlike you I don't speak Arabic but I can't see the verses being any different, except perhaps a bit more poetic/flowery.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #50 - August 17, 2015, 05:06 PM
    The Qur’an is remarkable in the same way that Picasso is remarkable, in the same way that stinky cheese is remarkable. People who are really into it can see why their peers appreciate it. People who have no history with it will just think it’s weird at best.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #51 - August 17, 2015, 05:08 PM
    Yes, Quod I've heard many people say that to me. I won't claim it's all about the Arabic language because I don't think that's the whole story. It's probably more to do with perception. What one was brought up with. Etc... I've heard people tell me the Bible is  much better book, but for me I found the Bible dreadfully dull and boring and no where near as poetic as the Qur'an. I guess it boils down to what one is used to. When it comes to religious texts its all about perception and emotional attachment or detachment.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #52 - August 17, 2015, 05:09 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 17, 2015, 05:06 PM
    The Qur’an is remarkable in the same way that Picasso is remarkable, in the same way that stinky cheese is remarkable. People who are really into it can see why their peers appreciate it. People who have no history with it will just think it’s weird at best.


    This^
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #53 - August 17, 2015, 05:56 PM
    @Hassan I find your worldview very interesting. The reason that I have not already left Islam is that I still see some beauty in the religion (Ramadhan, charity etc.). On the other hand there are some aspects of the religion that I couldn't accept, unless by some miracle I have misunderstood them. This is why I find the thought of going without a label very attractive. But I completely understand why some people would prefer to stay somewhere in between. I learned the Quran in Arabic and some verses are very poetic and beautiful whereas others make me uncomfortable.

    Agreed. There are some posters on Ummah.com who are very nice people and are not hellbent on putting others down because they are questioning the religion. These people inspired me to attend some halaqas but my teacher does not seem able to answer my questions regarding slavery. Then I went back to Ummah.com and came across some Da'esh supporters (and those who claim not to support Da'esh but keep defending them) and they kept insisting that the rape of slave girls was permissible if they were "kuffar", but they refused to call it rape. One of the mods appears to be pro-Da'esh because he/she deleted that thread. That was what tipped me closer to the edge. Ummah.com seems to be down at the moment so I was not able to reply to that poster. I am grateful to him for defending me though.

    Thanks for sharing your khutbahs, I will have a look at them.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #54 - August 17, 2015, 06:19 PM
    Like I said before, whether you leave islam or not is up to you. Don't let anyone pressure you either way. Muslim, ex-muslim, either is fine. To me, being a good person is far more important than whether or not you believe in a god.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #55 - August 17, 2015, 06:24 PM
    As for the rape thing, to the ummah people, I guess what matters is that this is allah's will, part of his perfect system, and their religion is important to them, so will justify it. Some of the comments on this thread about the story of Saffiyah are interesting in that regard.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=23145.0
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #56 - August 17, 2015, 06:30 PM
    Thanks Smiley that's something that I have continuously had to remind myself.

    I'm just trying to focus on which ideology or lack thereof that I'm most comfortable with. I don't see myself ever following another religion but I think I'll always believe in a God/higher power. If I do leave Islam I would probably become Agnostic.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #57 - August 17, 2015, 06:31 PM
    Not a deist or a pantheist?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #58 - August 17, 2015, 06:36 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 17, 2015, 05:00 PM
    Is the quran actually that remarkable though? I can't say I was impressed when I read it. There was nothing that really stood out to me as being unique to the quran (except perhaps the rantings about non muslims) that you couldn't find elsewhere. Granted unlike you I don't speak Arabic but I can't see the verses being any different, except perhaps a bit more poetic/flowery.


    I still have not made it all the way through the Quran, i get bored too quickly.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #59 - August 17, 2015, 06:42 PM
    I really did have to force myself at times. Still, I suppose it's like happymurtad and Hassan said. Eye of the beholder.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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