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 Topic: Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.

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  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #240 - August 23, 2015, 09:00 PM
    A sermon style video could potentially work, it really just depends on your own wishes of how it comes across. If you cringe at the idea of having your actual sermons recorded live and uploaded to youtube (which I have to admit I'd be curious to see) it should be fairly easy to get the same message across once you've settled on a style you're comfortable with.

    I can very easily see what you've written being the script though. It's more presentation that anything, the message is there without having to modify the text.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #241 - August 23, 2015, 09:07 PM
    I also think you should record them live. I can only imagine what sort of genuine passion and sincerity you must give to those words when you are delivering them to people you love and care about.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #242 - August 23, 2015, 09:09 PM
    I'm picturing them going viral and Hassan being invited all over the world as a guru. Grin
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #243 - August 23, 2015, 09:10 PM
    Stranger things have happened.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #244 - August 23, 2015, 09:15 PM
    Could reword the khutbas in videos to make them appear more like a relaxed presentation and save the originals for a book maybe
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #245 - August 23, 2015, 09:19 PM
    Videos that get people thinking are good. Speeches that inspire can be even better, so long as the message is right.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #246 - August 23, 2015, 09:21 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 23, 2015, 08:51 PM
    Thanks. I actually had a go last night recording my Shari'ah Khutbah but tbh it sounded better when I gave it live on the farm - I felt it lost some of the vigour recording it.

    The problem is that I write the Khutbah's to be spoken in a Friday prayer setting - whereas Youtube videos are different. I used to write my video scripts specifically for the purpose of being a short video with pictures.

    So not so sure what to do. I think Youtube videos should not be sermons as such... I don't know gonna give it more thought.


    What about audio recording it while you are giving it on the farm?


    Lol I see others gave the same suggestions.

    Do as you most feel comfortable but I do think videos gain more visibility than posts. People are lazy nowadays.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #247 - August 24, 2015, 09:24 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 23, 2015, 07:41 PM
    I actually think labels are silly and meaningless. Unfortunately you can't escape them. I didn't feel totally happy with the label Ex-Muslim, because although I rejected somethings in Islam I liked other things - and I do have a vague belief in God - "something" beyond this material world - even though I can't define it.

    I have a Pakistani friend who labels himself a cultural Muslim and even though he and I share pretty much identical beliefs I prefer Agnostic Muslim - simply because I don't really identify with any particular culture. My Asian friend is very much into Asian culture which is fine - I love Asian culture too (well somethings lol) but I'm not Asian. I'm half Egyptian and half English. If anything my culture is more English - with bits of Egyptian/Arab culture thrown in.

    However it is some of the Islamic practices I like such as prayer, fasting, and as you say I like to participate in Islamic events with my Muslim family and friends.

    So in short I prefer the label Agnostic Muslim.

    Like I say I don't like labels but they get slapped on you whether you like it or not - so I'd rather choose my own - and I think Agnostic Muslim reflects the image that, yes I am a Muslim but I am also a freethinker and a sceptic and I will unapologetically pick and choose what I want and happily reject this and take that according to my own reason and conscience.

    And those who tell me: "You can't pick and choose!!" can shove it! :p lol




    Good for you! Everyone should have the freedom to pick and choose Smiley. I think that I might be happiest living in a way in which I don't completely leave Islam but I can reject things that I know are wrong and immoral. So not fully a Muslim but not fully apostate Tongue
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #248 - August 24, 2015, 09:32 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 23, 2015, 07:18 PM
    There's actually a thread that discusses just that topic.

    These were my thoughts on the matter.



    That's very true. Most ex-Christians still celebrate Christmas and participate in the most cultural aspects of Christianity.

    I did have a discussion with a Christian society at uni about the Athiest church and can totally understand why they would want such a things. Churches and mosques give a sense of community and belonging and with the abscence of religious rituals, they are probably perfect for some non-religious people.

    Every religion has some great traditions and it makes a lot of sense that the non-religious would want to keep them.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #249 - August 24, 2015, 09:36 AM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 23, 2015, 07:59 PM
    I dont really like the label ex-muslim. I think I wasnt even a muslim.
    Islam was forced on me. I did not choose it.

    But they are meaningless labels in the end. They do not tell the whole story about a person as they only define certain aspects.


    I have heard of people who never believed in Islam but only went along with what their parents chose for them, which is sad. Although I'm annoyed that I spent two decades turning a blind eye to certain things, I definitely believed in Islam with all my heart until recently so I guess that it wasn't all that bad.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #250 - August 24, 2015, 09:53 AM
    That's a good attitude to have.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #251 - August 25, 2015, 01:12 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 22, 2015, 11:59 PM
    True believers. In some ways you can't blame them. They honestly believe this religion is true, and they love their child. If I believed hell was a real place my child would go to if they didn't follow such and such I'd teach them about it as well. How else would I ensure my son or daughter doesn't burn for all eternity? I'd be wilfully damning their soul for all time to spare them fear and pain for the blink of an eye they exist in this life.

    Ideas of heaven and hell can and often do profoundly retard our moral compass. We naturally take things in and form bonds and relationships and realise that other people feel joy and sadness and love and loss and hope and sorrow, just like us. Human morality is intrinsicly linked with our sense of empathy. This is part of our evolution as a social species. Great moral teachers throughout history, both religious and non religious, have independently taught what's become known as the golden rule. Treat others as you wish to be treated. This works well for us because we're not naturally a species of psychopaths.

    What heaven and hell often does is limit our empathy. Instead of growing the way we're naturally supposed to, we get a perversion of it where we do good for promise of reward and do bad in fear of punishment. There are people who've left religion and their own mothers honestly cannot understand why they still want to be good people without the promise of heaven or the threat of flames licking their skin. You can see it all the time. People saying if you don't believe in divine judgement you have no basis for morals. People saying if they didn't believe in god they'd be stealing, raping, murdering. Quite frankly, if this is the only reason you don't unleash evil onto the world, you're not a good person. You're a monster in a cage.

    i wish i can convince my mother otherwise. i can't speak my mind in fear that my mother will be extremely sad . i love my mother and i don't want to hurt her. any ways unrelated to what i was saying i want to say that i was shaken to learn that hassan has reverted somehow to the religion of doubt.  may be i should read more to have better understanding.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #252 - August 25, 2015, 01:31 AM
    To continue with Hassan's label arguments. One issue is that tradition based labels become almost like property of these under the label. They feel like they can control who is under or uses the label. How it must be used. What the label should mean compared to what a general description. Hence the no-true scotsman fallacy. So for those that are Sunni Muslim also includes Sunni tradition, interpretation, views, etc. Non-Sunni views become not Islam and their followers not-Muslim. Dogma and doctrine become part of the label. Look at the RCC stance as the only way to Jesus and salvation. Under this dogma and doctrine Catholics are the true Christians in all forms while those that are not Catholic are followers of Jesus but not Christian. In it's view to be saved one must accept the idea that Jesus made the RCC his congregation. If one does not accept this self serving label then they are screwed.   
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #253 - August 25, 2015, 08:26 AM
    Quote from: moe78 on August 25, 2015, 01:12 AM
    i wish i can convince my mother otherwise. i can't speak my mind in fear that my mother will be extremely sad . i love my mother and i don't want to hurt her. any ways unrelated to what i was saying i want to say that i was shaken to learn that hassan has reverted somehow to the religion of doubt.  may be i should read more to have better understanding.

    Whether or not you tell your mother is of course entirely up to you. Either way I hope it works out. Hassan's life is his business. No need to be shaken, he isn't living yours for you.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #254 - August 25, 2015, 09:45 AM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 24, 2015, 09:24 AM
    Good for you! Everyone should have the freedom to pick and choose Smiley. I think that I might be happiest living in a way in which I don't completely leave Islam but I can reject things that I know are wrong and immoral. So not fully a Muslim but not fully apostate Tongue


    I think that sounds fine  Afro

    From a selfish point of view I would like more freethinkers continue to identify as Muslims because we desperately need them in the battle against the narrow-minded nit wits.

    But do whatever makes you feel most comfortable. Smiley
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #255 - August 25, 2015, 10:20 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 25, 2015, 09:45 AM
    ..................

    From a selfish point of view I would rather freethinkers would stay as Muslims because we desperately need them in the battle against the narrow-minded nit wits...................


    Agnostic Muslims/Agnostic Isam.,    Free thinking Muslims/Free thinking Islam  were already present since the beginning of Islam....    What is missing throughout the history of Islam is Agnostic Mosques/Freethinkers Masjid  and the political power around it..

    So Hassan my suggestion to you is..

    1). Open a Agnostic Mosque   Be a Amina wadud for a year or so..  

    2). Make that place as TAX FREE NON PROFIT RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION  for donations

    3). Put a Loud Speaker or two  on that AGNOSTIC MOSQUE and make some sounds .,  Your Khutabhs  .... Your you tubes.....your  posts for the past  10 years or so are good enough to start with and to steer young Muslims out of the rigid rules of stupid islamic literature ..

    4). And last but least don't forget to start a political party (INDIRECTLY) in the name of Muslim freethinkers  

    Then ask me to join in it.. I will be there..........
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #256 - August 25, 2015, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 24, 2015, 09:36 AM
    I have heard of people who never believed in Islam but only went along with what their parents chose for them, which is sad.


    Then it becomes a choice.

    I thought being a muslim was a default setting and at times I thought how lucky I was being born a muslim. It was all indoctrination, hence not a choice.

    But it was sad nonetheless. Not being able to see beyond the boxes you are placed in.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #257 - September 02, 2015, 07:12 AM
    Video re Safiyah

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=2800.0
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #258 - September 02, 2015, 07:24 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on September 02, 2015, 07:12 AM
    Video re Safiyah

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=2800.0


    Video's gone.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #259 - September 02, 2015, 07:27 AM
    Thread's there.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #260 - September 02, 2015, 09:02 AM
    Quote
    Quote from: gal_from_usa on September 02, 2015, 07:24 AM
    Video's gone.

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on September 02, 2015, 07:27 AM
    Thread's there.



    ADD MORE............... until the rascals burn that bullshit hadith..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #261 - September 02, 2015, 07:34 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on September 02, 2015, 07:12 AM
    Video re Safiyah

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=2800.0


    Thank you! A lot of religious debates have been happening in my family and they are becoming increasingly heated :(
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #262 - September 02, 2015, 10:54 PM
    I see yeez added two videos on the above linked Mo and Safiyah thread.

    One of the images that most impacted me when it came to women and islam is this picture here. Blurs out the genitalia on this pic, if you google it you can see it uncensored.

    Mo and Aisha. It's so simple and yet so powerful.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #263 - September 03, 2015, 07:32 AM
    Yikes! He looks more like a woman that she does :S

    I used to purposely look for evidence that she was not 9 at the time he married her, that she was older. I found certain hadiths to support this and stuck to them because no excuses could make me accept that it's OK to have sex with a 9 year old. But evidence of her real age is too strong. I remember some Bukhari hadiths saying that she was playing with her friends outside on the wedding day and that she used to play with dolls in his house.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #264 - September 03, 2015, 11:58 PM
    I remember a hadith saying her hair fell out, always thought it most likely that was why. It's interesting she never had children. Very likely because of her age/size intercourse with a grown man caused enough damage that she was unable to conceive.

    It's people long dead from a time and culture that doesn't exist any more, so normally it's not something of any importance in todays world except you have people still trying to justify it today with all the knowledge we have on why you absolutely should not fuck children.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #265 - September 04, 2015, 01:53 PM
    Yes, her hair did fall out and I didn't think much of it when I read the Hadith at the time but you could be right.

    Of course, regardless of what the norm was back then, the "best of the creation" should have known that having sex with a child is harmful. Not only was he not able to establish this but he has set precedent for other men after him to do the same.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #266 - September 04, 2015, 02:17 PM
    I think just reading the hadiths to Quran 4.24 should be enough. Rape galore, and Muhammad not only condoned it but joined in (Safiyya)
    http://quranx.com/hadiths/4.24
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #267 - September 04, 2015, 09:56 PM
    There's also the fact that islam basically follows "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" which is not only revolting, it's medically, emotionally, psychologically and even biologically untrue.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #268 - September 05, 2015, 05:03 PM
    Yet the Quran literalists will reject all scientific evidence in favour of what the Quran says. A child who plays with dolls cannot mentally or physically handle sex. There is no such thing as a mentally mature 9 year old!
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #269 - September 05, 2015, 10:36 PM
    There is no such thing as a biologically mature girl. If she gets pregnant, she'll most likely die or be literally torn apart (there is a name for this condition, which escapes my mind, that a big number of women siuffer from around the worl). Even with modern health care and medical know-how, she wouldn't be able to handle a pregnancy and delivery without very high risks...
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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