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Theme Changer

 Topic: Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.

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  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #300 - September 16, 2015, 12:04 AM

    In a cult, there's someone at the top who knows it's all a scam. In a religion, that person is dead.


    Hilarious.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #301 - September 16, 2015, 05:01 AM

    Speaking of blatant misogyny in islam, I just randomly found this.

    Source: http://elbadil.com/arabic-press/2012/11/12/70344

    The preacher Faihan Ghamdi killed his child because of his doubt/suspicion over her behaviour - and a jurisprudential principle could save him from punishment!

    Dr. Suhaila Zain al-Abidin, a member of the Human Rights Association in Saudi Arabia, announced that Faihan Ghamdi The preacher killed his daughter because he doubted/suspected her behaviour. She wondered how can a person suspect the behaviour of a child of five years, noting that the child's virginity had been established. Indeed she will not be silent over this heinous crime. And she expressed her fear that the murderer will escape punishment on the grounds that he is suffering from a psychological condition or that the applicable Fiqh principle be applied to him, which is related in "Al-Mughni" by Ibn Qudamah:

    لا يقتل إن قتل ولده, ولكن تقتل الأم بقتلها ولدها

    "He (the father) is not to be killed if he kills his child, but the mother is to be killed if she kills her child."

    Dr. Suhaila demanded, via the Saudi newspaper "Sabq", that the supreme court of justice and shari'ah agencies to reconsider their teaching methods after rectifying the understandings of Quranic verses regarding women and the laws and family & marriage relations, and not to rely on the jurisprudence of Fuqaha who rely on weak hadiths and irregular and Mursal (broken chain hadiths).


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #302 - September 16, 2015, 06:22 AM

    My mum was telling me about the prejudices the Irish used to face in England decades ago.



    Then England got its shit together a bit. Shame it's all going pear-shaped now.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #303 - September 16, 2015, 07:11 AM

    Speaking of blatant misogyny in islam, I just randomly found this.



    Wasn't that the man who raped his daughter then killed her? I remember that, absolutely disgusting.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #304 - September 16, 2015, 07:11 AM

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Then England got its shit together a bit. Shame it's all going pear-shaped now.


    :O wow, insightful. I wasn't aware that it was that bad.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #305 - September 16, 2015, 07:22 AM

    Yep, we used to have gangs of kids waiting to beat us up lol  : ( 
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #306 - September 16, 2015, 07:29 AM

    True, but Islamophobia is the term coined for anti-Muslim bigotry which is why we use it in this context. It is the same way antiSemitism is the term used for anti-Jewish bigotry despite the fact that some Jews are not Semites and some Semites are not Jews. Yet this can't be used as a reason to claim that antiSemitism does not exist. It is more to do with the meaning behind the term rather than what it sounds like on the surface.


    Well said.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #307 - September 16, 2015, 08:48 AM

    Yep, we used to have gangs of kids waiting to beat us up lol  : ( 


    I have always hated bullies :/
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #308 - September 16, 2015, 10:19 AM

    :O wow, insightful. I wasn't aware that it was that bad.

    And the key point: it got better fairly quickly.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #309 - September 17, 2015, 12:29 AM

    Wasn't that the man who raped his daughter then killed her? I remember that, absolutely disgusting.

    I was mostly thinking this part:
    Quote
    the applicable Fiqh principle be applied to him, which is related in "Al-Mughni" by Ibn Qudamah:

    لا يقتل إن قتل ولده, ولكن تقتل الأم بقتلها ولدها

    "He (the father) is not to be killed if he kills his child, but the mother is to be killed if she kills her child."


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #310 - September 17, 2015, 01:51 AM

    Not all the time; there is genuine Islamophobia in Europe. I have friends who are nothing like the people you described but have been verbally abused on the street. I have also seen people rejoicing the deaths of the people killed by the crane in Makkah when it in fact was a tragedy. Sure the word has been misused at times but that goes for any sort of prejudice.

    Is that true about the churches and temples though? Because I have seen them in every Muslim country I've been to besides Saudi Arabia.

    No Muslim country allows building of NEW churches and temples with few exceptions. In Egypt, Copts cannot even repair roof or toilet without a special permission from the president. Every time, Copts seek to build a new church Muslims start rioting forcing the authorities to rescind the permission.

    Pakistan constitution forbids building of NEW churches and temples. Its almost impossible to repair non Muslim religious buildings. 90% of Hindu temples - many very ancient (hundreds of years old) and of immense architectural value - have been demolished in Pakistan by the governments after 1947. At least 50% of Hindu temples have been demolished in Bangladesh since 1947 with the complicity of politicians.

    Sikhs tried to build a temple in Kuwait. One of Kuwaiti politicians (I've forgotten his name) said, "we cannot allow insult to Islam by letting Sikhs build their temple"!!!! Can you imagine an Indian politicians saying "we cannot allow Muslims to build a mosque because that would be insult to Sikhism" ?

    Even "democratic moderate" Muslim Turkey legally forbids building of churches and synagogues or Buddhist temple etc.

    Malaysia allows building of temples and churches but again the permission is very difficult to get because of strong opposition from the Muslim clergy. We can say the same about Indonesia.

    Forget about building NEW churches or temples in Morocco, Tunisia, Libya Algeria, every Arab - because laws do not allow it. Gulf countries have given special permission to build one or two churches and one or two Hindu temples. But the buildings are forbidden to display cross or any religious sign - Muslims are forbidden to entre. Non Muslims are forbidden to invite any Muslim to attend any kind of celebration etc.

    The fact is discrimination in every Muslim country - including "moderate democratic" countries like Turkey and Malaysia - is sanctioned by the constitutions and laws. Indonesia is the only Muslim country allows religious freedom - Legally but unfortunately NOT in practice.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #311 - September 17, 2015, 02:21 AM

    Not all the time; there is genuine Islamophobia in Europe. I have friends who are nothing like the people you described but have been verbally abused on the street. I have also seen people rejoicing the deaths of the people killed by the crane in Makkah when it in fact was a tragedy. Sure the word has been misused at times but that goes for any sort of prejudice.

    Is that true about the churches and temples though? Because I have seen them in every Muslim country I've been to besides Saudi Arabia.

    I also know that many Muslims - even those living in Canada - rejoiced when 9/11 attack happened in New York. I had a conversation with a Palestinian man, a very decent fellow - I used to buy newspaper in his shop everyday. He openly expressed his happiness that 3000 Americans perished in the World Trade Center. I can safely say that the majority of Muslims did not hesitate to express their satisfaction. Practically, every Muslim, I know, believes that Americans deserved that. So "phobia" cuts both ways.

    I read an article by Mahir Ali in Pakistani newspaper Dawn condemning Americans (all Americans) as racist after the attack by a white bigot in a black church. He generalized that all Americans are racist - he ignored that fact the Americans dealt with the attacker swiftly, prosecuting him. Whites condemned the man. Every American politician condemned him. He was found guilty and sentenced to death or life.

    I wrote to him about Muslims burning Christian church in Lahore and Pakistani authorities have not prosecuted anyone for the crime. Its a fact. I am not making it up. But this "intelligent" man called me Islamophobe and bigot!

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #312 - September 17, 2015, 06:49 AM

    ..............But this "intelligent" man called me Islamophobe and bigot! ..................

    well may be Mahir Ali didn't read all that you write  Mr. Ram., He thinks he is a progressive Muslim guy  and he never harmed any other sect Muslims or hindus, Christians  of Pakistan  in his writings as well as in actions.  ((AND THAT IS TRUE))   So if some one criticizes his writings.,    He may have reacted and called you as  Islamophobe and bigot...

    One of the problem often people don't seem to realize is the difference between Anti-Muslim Bigotry  and Islamophobia .  There is a difference between the two,

    Any way a Blogger who read me often at CEMB  wrote at me as if I am  a  MUSLIM HATER AND BIGGEST BIGOT OF MUSLIM FOLKS   on internet.,  She writes  in a blog that is published in  that http://nation.com.pk/   with a heading How are those who mocked Muslims over Makkah Crane Tragedy any different from those who celebrated 9/11?
    Quote
    Quote
    People took to social media this time, to show their approval. “Karma is a b*tch!” was on repeat on many keyboards. As if those very people who had died had been the hijackers themselves who had flown their planes into the twin towers. As if they had been the ones who murdered the Americans 14 years ago.

    Others said, “Muslims deserved what they got.  Their own Allah could not save them. He was away on holiday. Allah made it happen to show how he hates Muslims too, etc.” Then there were the conspiracy experts who stressed on how it been a Bin Laden family owned crane that fell (even the Daily Mail), conveniently forgetting that the Bin Laden Family literally owns half of Saudi Arabia anyway. For those interested, they are now facing legal action and have been excluded from all future projects in the Kingdom. But there still was no conspiracy!

    Then came the photoshoppers with the digital lightning striking, all in the same quest to prove that the death of the Muslims who died was justified with the stamped approval of the very God they prayed to.

    Some were simply ecstatic that such an incident had happened and Muslims had died.

    How are these people who mocked Muslims over the Makkah Crane Tragedy any different from those who celebrated 9/11? Yes, the majority celebrating 9/11 were mostly Muslims, and the ones mocking the Makkah deaths are mostly non Muslims. Other than that, how different are they really from each other?

    Religion and religious fundamentalism needs to be and should be critiqued and questioned, but there is a time and place for it. It is completely one thing to be critical and another to hate the people simply on the basis of it.

    Whatever side you are coming from, if you hate, there is one word to describe you – Bigot.

      

    and those highlighted words are from one of yeezevee's post  that is written by



    Shamila Ghyas

    It is OK she can call  me whatever she likes  but I am glad she is reading CEMB  ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #313 - September 17, 2015, 11:00 AM

    I also know that many Muslims - even those living in Canada - rejoiced when 9/11 attack happened in New York. I had a conversation with a Palestinian man, a very decent fellow - I used to buy newspaper in his shop everyday. He openly expressed his happiness that 3000 Americans perished in the World Trade Center. I can safely say that the majority of Muslims did not hesitate to express their satisfaction. Practically, every Muslim, I know, believes that Americans deserved that. So "phobia" cuts both ways.

    I read an article by Mahir Ali in Pakistani newspaper Dawn condemning Americans (all Americans) as racist after the attack by a white bigot in a black church. He generalized that all Americans are racist - he ignored that fact the Americans dealt with the attacker swiftly, prosecuting him. Whites condemned the man. Every American politician condemned him. He was found guilty and sentenced to death or life.

    I wrote to him about Muslims burning Christian church in Lahore and Pakistani authorities have not prosecuted anyone for the crime. Its a fact. I am not making it up. But this "intelligent" man called me Islamophobe and bigot!


    There was certainly a sizeable population of Muslims who rejoiced but to say that this was the majority is plain ignorance, as I have been surrounded by Muslims my entire life and such people are almost alien to me. So your evidence that most Muslims rejoiced was based on a Palestinian man you spoke to? How many Muslims do you know as opposed to people who grew up in Muslim communities? Moreover a sizeable population of non-Muslims rejoiced when the crane killed Muslims in Makkah recently and they called it "karma", but that does not mean that the majority rejoiced, does it?

    Your sweeping generalisations makes me unsurprised that you were called an Islamophobe. There is a difference between criticising Islam and the negative effects that it has and demonising Muslims with untrue statements. Of course phobia cuts both ways and of course there is a massive problem with the way minorities are treated in Muslim countries but to claim that most Muslims rejoiced 9/11, you're going to need more evidence than "I know Muslims who have". Besides, no one was claiming that bigotry does not exist within Muslim communities; the issue of bigotry against non-Muslims was brought up several times on this thread. You were the one implying that Islamophobia isn't real.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #314 - September 17, 2015, 11:05 AM

    I was mostly thinking this part:


    This rule really does sanction "honour killings", which people claim are unislamic. The fact of the matter is when a father is exempt from punishments for killing his own children, what is to stop him? Of course the rules are also unequal, there is also the fact that a wife cannot accuse her husband of adultery without 4 witnesses but the husband can accuse his wife.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #315 - September 17, 2015, 11:54 AM

    well may be Mahir Ali didn't read all that you write  Mr. Ram., He thinks he is a progressive Muslim guy  and he never harmed any other sect Muslims or hindus, Christians  of Pakistan  in his writings as well as in actions.  ((AND THAT IS TRUE))   So if some one criticizes his writings.,    He may have reacted and called you as  Islamophobe and bigot...

    One of the problem often people don't seem to realize is the difference between Anti-Muslim Bigotry  and Islamophobia .  There is a difference between the two,

    Any way a Blogger who read me often at CEMB  wrote at me as if I am  a  MUSLIM HATER AND BIGGEST BIGOT OF MUSLIM FOLKS   on internet.,  She writes  in a blog that is published in  that http://nation.com.pk/   with a heading How are those who mocked Muslims over Makkah Crane Tragedy any different from those who celebrated 9/11?  and those highlighted words are from one of yeezevee's post  that is written by

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Shamila Ghyas

    It is OK she can call  me whatever she likes  but I am glad she is reading CEMB  ..

     

    From what I read of your post, you were mocking the ridiculousness of religion, not rejoicing the deaths. Even if others think it is insensitive, there is a difference. I myself find it foolish when Muslims claim that the crane was a blessing in disguise as all of the dead will go to Heaven or a "test" whereas when such tragedies happen to others, some think it is a "punishment". At the same time I feel for the dead and their loved ones. Saying "Allah is such and such" is not the same as saying "Muslims are such and such".
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #316 - September 17, 2015, 11:59 AM

    I can safely say that the majority of Muslims did not hesitate to express their satisfaction. Practically, every Muslim, I know, believes that Americans deserved that. So "phobia" cuts both ways.



    I wasn't even a Muslim when it happened and I was happy about it; not so much about the people dying (although I didn't mind that too much, I already felt like the world was a fucking horrific place--and had tried to kill myself several times, and therefore it didn't bother me as much as it did other people). No, what I was happy about was that my mom was stuck on a boat in Alaska, she was on a cruise when it happened and she wasn't able to get off the boat because the borders were all closed. She and the other people on the boat weren't able to get food or water for a while, either. She was a major source of abuse in my childhood, so any time she suffered, I was happy.

    As for the morality of the attacks, well, I figured that if they felt the justification was America's immorality, that seemed reasonable to me. I had recently been sexually assaulted yet again (and I'd just turned 13), and every adult I knew was either a pedophile or involved in the coverup, and that's pretty goddamn immoral in my book. I was mad at the world, I hated humanity, and I figured that, since everyone I knew was American and incredibly immoral, America as a whole was probably full of immoral people.

    Also, I figured someone didn't have to be a good person or even a believer in God for God to use them as a vessel of his judgment. In the Bible, tons of people are the bringers of God's wrath who are themselves horrible, immoral, even pagan. If there was a God, he could clearly have stopped the attackers; but he didn't, so he must not have wanted to, meaning he either directly or tacitly agreed with what they were doing. Didn't mean that they were good people--or even believed in the right god--just that he didn't object to their actions enough to stop them. Made sense to me.

    Not to say that I feel the same way now, just so we're clear on that. I'm just saying how I felt then. I'm twice as old now, a lot has changed in that time, I've redirected a lot of my anger. There are lots of people I still hate, but it's not generalized to everyone now, I've focused it onto specific people who deserve it more than others.



    From what I read of your post, you were mocking the ridiculousness of religion, not rejoicing the deaths. Even if others think it is insensitive, there is a difference. I myself find it foolish when Muslims claim that the crane was a blessing in disguise as all of the dead will go to Heaven or a "test" whereas when such tragedies happen to others, some think it is a "punishment". At the same time I feel for the dead and their loved ones. Saying "Allah is such and such" is not the same as saying "Muslims are such and such".


    The sooner you give up on trying to make sense of what yeezevee says, the more you'll enjoy your time here Wink

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #317 - September 17, 2015, 01:53 PM

    I can at least try Tongue

    But in all seriousness, there were definitely Muslims with that mentality but I am certain that they were not the majority. When the attacks happened, most reactions of those around me were either horror at the ugliness of the crime, worry about the inevitable public backlash against Muslims or denial. Those in denial believed that it was a conspiracy of some sort but at least the only reason they believed this was because they knew that the act was unacceptable and did not want to associate it with Islam. That being said, most of the Muslims I know are educated and moderate, things will vary depending on where you live.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #318 - September 17, 2015, 08:10 PM

    and those highlighted words are from one of yeezevee's post


    Nothing to be proud of Yeezy - you can be a real jerk at times. (The rest of the time you're just bonkers.)
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #319 - September 18, 2015, 01:04 AM

    Yeez is al-khidhr. You may not understand his wisdom, but it's in there somewhere.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #320 - September 18, 2015, 03:38 AM

    There was certainly a sizeable population of Muslims who rejoiced but to say that this was the majority is plain ignorance, as I have been surrounded by Muslims my entire life and such people are almost alien to me. So your evidence that most Muslims rejoiced was based on a Palestinian man you spoke to? How many Muslims do you know as opposed to people who grew up in Muslim communities? Moreover a sizeable population of non-Muslims rejoiced when the crane killed Muslims in Makkah recently and they called it "karma", but that does not mean that the majority rejoiced, does it?

    Your sweeping generalisations makes me unsurprised that you were called an Islamophobe. There is a difference between criticising Islam and the negative effects that it has and demonising Muslims with untrue statements. Of course phobia cuts both ways and of course there is a massive problem with the way minorities are treated in Muslim countries but to claim that most Muslims rejoiced 9/11, you're going to need more evidence than "I know Muslims who have". Besides, no one was claiming that bigotry does not exist within Muslim communities; the issue of bigotry against non-Muslims was brought up several times on this thread. You were the one implying that Islamophobia isn't real.

    - I am born in Pakistan surrounded by Muslims. I and my family has the experience of living as non Muslim minority in a Muslim country - believe me its ugly. I speak their languages and I know how they think. Non Muslims must to be on constant guard not to say anything which may remotely be taken as an offence. It was made clear to us "convert or die".
    - Accusations of blasphemy against non-Muslims are common. Just the accusation is enough - the accuser need not describe what was really said because that in itself would be considered blasphemy. Salman Taseer, governor of Punjab was killed because he said that blasphemy law should be reformed. His murderer was feted by thousands of lawyers. The lawyers shouted slogans supporting the murderer inside the court.
    - Islamophobia is just a meaningless word used by Muslims and left leaning western intellectuals to malign who have legitimate fear of Islamism and fanatical Muslims.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #321 - September 18, 2015, 04:20 AM

    What the people who are Islamophobic in the west are scared of is generally unreasonable. What people in other countries are worried about? Maybe not so much. It's kind of like when fucking idiots like Anita Sarkeesian complain about violence against women in video games being proof of the patriarchy and "training men to abuse women", while ignoring the fact that no definitive link between video game violence and real-world violence has ever been found, and ignoring the plight of women in true patriarchies, like, there are literally some parts of the world today where women's actions are so controlled, they are not allowed to leave the house alone, and suffer systemic violence due to an oppressive patriarchy, but these fucking idiot "feminists" in the west don't care about that, all they care about is women that aren't even real. Instead of doing something legitimately bold and legitimately brave for the plight of women, they like to sit behind a screen and shout at a camcorder.

    Most Islamophobia in the West is exactly like that. Sure, there are places in the world where Islamic extremism is a very big threat to the lives of everyone. Oklahoma? Not one of those places. Banning Muslims from your shooting range in rural Oklahoma or Alabama does literally nothing to protect anyone, it's just like screaming at a camcorder. It makes people who don't need to be afraid get angry and does nothing to help people who are actually suffering, if anything it hurts those people more, because it draws attention away from what they are going through.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #322 - September 18, 2015, 04:42 AM


    Leaving aside the word islamophobia, do you recognise that anti-muslim bigotry exists? Not just having a problem with the religious teachings but actually having a problem with muslims purely because they're muslims?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #323 - September 18, 2015, 08:03 AM

    Leaving aside the word islamophobia, do you recognise that anti-muslim bigotry exists? Not just having a problem with the religious teachings but actually having a problem with muslims purely because they're muslims?


    Only an ignorant will say that anti-muslim bigotry doesn't exists.

    But I'm puzzled how some members here associate Islamophobia with people being abused which is clearly anti-muslim bigotry. Usually both are running hand in hand, but not always... and this place is the best example for this. Islamophobia by the literally definition it means "fear of Islam" and not fear/dislike of Muslims.

    And I'm puzzled because the majority of Islam apologists and many Muslims will classify almost all of us here as islamophobes, because of criticism of Islam.

    The term was invented and associated with anti-muslim bigotry by Islam apologists, to silence any criticism of Islam and to silence people.


     
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #324 - September 18, 2015, 09:09 AM

    I don't like the term islamophobia, it just stifles honesty a lot of the time. It's also hard to define itself. I much prefer the term anti-muslim myself, it's straight to the point, it's factual and leaves little room for bullshit. It's just more honest. I find champions of the phrase "islamophobia" are all about giving some sort of blasphemy taboo, though obviously that's my individual experience.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #325 - September 18, 2015, 01:08 PM

    Only an ignorant will say that anti-muslim bigotry doesn't exists.

    But I'm puzzled how some members here associate Islamophobia with people being abused which is clearly anti-muslim bigotry. Usually both are running hand in hand, but not always... and this place is the best example for this. Islamophobia by the literally definition it means "fear of Islam" and not fear/dislike of Muslims.

    And I'm puzzled because the majority of Islam apologists and many Muslims will classify almost all of us here as islamophobes, because of criticism of Islam.

    The term was invented and associated with anti-muslim bigotry by Islam apologists, to silence any criticism of Islam and to silence people.


     



    Regardless of the literal meaning, that is the term associated with anti-Muslim bigotry, which is why it is used to address anti-Muslim bigotry. Just as I pointed out with the example of antiSemitism, it is not the meaning of the word but rathe what we have come to associate it with. I am very critical of Islam yet I do not worry about being called an Islamophobe and do not view the majority of the people on this forum as such. However I have seen a few who like to dehumanise Muslims then go on to claim that the term is false and is meant to silence critics of Islam. It can be used that way but so can any other term associated with bigotry.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #326 - September 18, 2015, 01:11 PM

    I don't like the term islamophobia, it just stifles honesty a lot of the time. It's also hard to define itself. I much prefer the term anti-muslim myself, it's straight to the point, it's factual and leaves little room for bullshit. It's just more honest. I find champions of the phrase "islamophobia" are all about giving some sort of blasphemy taboo, though obviously that's my individual experience.


    I also find that certain right-wingers will own the word "Islamophobe" and say that it's because they openly admit to having a fear of Islam (when in fact many of them hate Muslims). However very few of those same people would openly admit to being anti-Muslim bigots.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #327 - September 18, 2015, 01:12 PM

    What the people who are Islamophobic in the west are scared of is generally unreasonable. What people in other countries are worried about? Maybe not so much. It's kind of like when fucking idiots like Anita Sarkeesian complain about violence against women in video games being proof of the patriarchy and "training men to abuse women", while ignoring the fact that no definitive link between video game violence and real-world violence has ever been found, and ignoring the plight of women in true patriarchies, like, there are literally some parts of the world today where women's actions are so controlled, they are not allowed to leave the house alone, and suffer systemic violence due to an oppressive patriarchy, but these fucking idiot "feminists" in the west don't care about that, all they care about is women that aren't even real. Instead of doing something legitimately bold and legitimately brave for the plight of women, they like to sit behind a screen and shout at a camcorder.

    Most Islamophobia in the West is exactly like that. Sure, there are places in the world where Islamic extremism is a very big threat to the lives of everyone. Oklahoma? Not one of those places. Banning Muslims from your shooting range in rural Oklahoma or Alabama does literally nothing to protect anyone, it's just like screaming at a camcorder. It makes people who don't need to be afraid get angry and does nothing to help people who are actually suffering, if anything it hurts those people more, because it draws attention away from what they are going through.


    I completely agree with this post.
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #328 - September 18, 2015, 01:18 PM

    Regardless of the literal meaning, that is the term associated with anti-Muslim bigotry, which is why it is used to address anti-Muslim bigotry. Just as I pointed out with the example of antiSemitism, it is not the meaning of the word but rathe what we have come to associate it with. I am very critical of Islam yet I do not worry about being called an Islamophobe and do not view the majority of the people on this forum as such. However I have seen a few who like to dehumanise Muslims then go on to claim that the term is false and is meant to silence critics of Islam. It can be used that way but so can any other term associated with bigotry.

    correcting word meaning and definitions are extremely important.

    "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as an ethnic, religious, or racial group.  "

    Muslim Phobia or Anti-Muslim bigotry is indeed equivalent to  Antisemitism  or Jew Phobia ..

    Islamophobia is completely different word..  It is equivalent to a person having phobia against religions and community enforced religious scriptures  on individuals in general .

    You can say "Judaism Phobia" "Christianity Phobia" "Hinduism Phobia".. Sunnism Phobia.. Shiaism Phobia  ...etc...etc...   as an equivalent word to "Islamophobia"

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it.
     Reply #329 - September 18, 2015, 01:26 PM

    Nothing to be proud of Yeezy - you can be a real jerk at times. (The rest of the time you're just bonkers.)


    Jerking and bonking is extremely important to life Hassan., the sooner you learn the better will be your life ..   You see life gets stagnated, our views about life gets stagnated   without such jerking.

    without jerking you would have been Hafiz or Ameer of some Islamia school. Because of many jerks like me you moved on..  And  you know what., Since you started those  Agnostic Muslim khutbahs/ramblings,    you too started jerking in a big way Hassan..

    So do not stop jerking.....bonking...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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