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Theme Changer

 Topic: Checkmate Atheists?

 (Read 2914 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     OP - August 24, 2015, 04:39 PM

    Taken from facebook:

    Quote
    My favorite time, rant time!

    To my beloved (mostly) middle class child-of-immigrant-parents Muslim young adult who was probably in some honors/AP classes growing up and took philosophy 101 in HS/college and now you're feeling great about your intellectual capacity:

    You probably had some crappy experiences with regards to growing up Muslim. Your community, at times, probably felt backwards, behind other communities, and just plain outdated. Perhaps your parents showed racists/sexist tendencies. Perhaps your Sunday school teacher was a misogynist. Maybe your Quran teacher was unethical. Maybe Islam was made to feel completely and totally irrelevant. "Why is dating haram, anyways?! ‪#‎sadface‬"

    What probably ended up happening was you took the fuel of anger from your bad experiences from a community of primarily immigrants trying to put something together, and armed yourself with a sociopolitically translated copy of the Quran, a user account on reddit, and access to Wikipedia, you've now fashioned yourself into quite the enlightened individual.

    You may find yourself identifying with secular values, or even empathizing with the attacks that neo-atheists have against religion. Can I take a moment here to just ask you for some honesty?

    Do us all a favor and admit three things:

    1. You don't have an ounce of academic capability to understand the sources that are being quoted to you/you quote to others about apparent contradictions in Islam/Quran/Hadith. You were taught Arabic letters for 2 years of your life and now have the irrational audacity to wave a translation (or worse, an internet link) in peoples' faces like some intellectual savior. Your flagrant confidence and belligerent opinion combined with your inability to actually engage the texts you criticize on their source level is like you standing in a giant puddle of gasoline while firing out sparks of ignorance. Boom.

    2. Reddit, Wikipedia, and social media are not legitimate sources of information. There is a reason you can't cite them in your essays. They are courts of public opinion, and that shapes the proposed truths that are championed on their platforms. Just because something is written in e-ink with pixels on a screen doesn't make it legitimate. But, since you probably don't know anything about the texts being quoted to you, you take these things as gospel (lol ‪#‎ironic‬ puns) - possibly related to a potential inferiority complex you may have - "struggling" Muslim-majority countries contrasted with "striving" western states are not a legitimate criticism of Islam. Especially while you conveniently forget about/overlook the purposeful and direct decimation of infrastructure of said Muslim-majority countries.

    3. You subconsciously project your disdain for your parental/communal experiences growing up onto an entire faith. When challenged on an intellectual level, you will probably resort to anecdotes that you or someone you know experienced to legitimize your criticism of the faith, when in fact it's just the human element that you're identifying.

    If you can admit these three things, THEN (and only then) am I willing to sit down and explain to you why you're wrong about your understanding of Islam.

    In a moment of neutral seriousness, I just want to say that I've been through all of these stages with regards to growing into my Islam, and it wasn't debate that won me over, but it was when I was finally able to admit to myself that I didn't know anything that I was finally able to begin traversing the path of knowledge and epistemology in understanding my faith for myself. Humble yourself.

    Rant over.


    The dude's got me. Allahuakbar and all that I guess.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #1 - August 24, 2015, 05:06 PM

    Love it when people tell you with little room for ambiguity why people they hardly know think the way they think. Humble indeed  whistling2

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #2 - August 24, 2015, 05:13 PM

    I do understand the general picture he paints of internet atheists and actually share some of his grievances about the online atheist "community." A lot of atheists on youtube and reddit are extremely unsophisticated and don't seem to understand that they are. But it could just as easily be turned around. A lot of the theists online think critical thinkers will be convinced with drivel concerning vague passages in their holy books that they consider scientific. Followers of iERA, Dawahman, and certain Christian apologists have the same herd following mentality and are equally undeservably arrogant.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #3 - August 24, 2015, 06:20 PM

    Taken from facebook:
    .......


    What an arrogant nobhead. He can fuck right off. His 'flagrant confidence and a belligerent opinion' can fuck right off also. Fucking prick.

    *not you arsebuddy*

    Hi
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #4 - August 24, 2015, 06:26 PM

    There's a whole lot assumptions  in that. To the OP who wrote that, do us all a favour and admit intellectualism of fairy tales doesn't make them any more real, then and only then will I be willing to sit down and talk with you. Wink
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #5 - August 24, 2015, 06:55 PM

    Yeah, it's not actually a rational argument of anything. Just some ad hom with a bit of tu quoque thrown in for good measure. Just surprised me that otherwise intelligent people like and fall for such drivel uncritically.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #6 - August 24, 2015, 08:46 PM

    Quote
    Taken from facebook:

    Do us all a favor and admit three things:

    1. You don't have an ounce of academic capability to understand the sources that are being quoted to you/you quote to others about apparent contradictions in Islam/Quran/Hadith. You were taught Arabic letters for 2 years of your life and now have the irrational audacity to wave a translation (or worse, an internet link) in peoples' faces like some intellectual savior. Your flagrant confidence and belligerent opinion combined with your inability to actually engage the texts you criticize on their source level is like you standing in a giant puddle of gasoline while firing out sparks of ignorance. Boom.

    2. Reddit, Wikipedia, and social media are not legitimate sources of information. There is a reason you can't cite them in your essays. They are courts of public opinion, and that shapes the proposed truths that are championed on their platforms. Just because something is written in e-ink with pixels on a screen doesn't make it legitimate. But, since you probably don't know anything about the texts being quoted to you, you take these things as gospel (lol ‪#‎ironic‬ puns) - possibly related to a potential inferiority complex you may have - "struggling" Muslim-majority countries contrasted with "striving" western states are not a legitimate criticism of Islam. Especially while you conveniently forget about/overlook the purposeful and direct decimation of infrastructure of said Muslim-majority countries.

    3. You subconsciously project your disdain for your parental/communal experiences growing up onto an entire faith. When challenged on an intellectual level, you will probably resort to anecdotes that you or someone you know experienced to legitimize your criticism of the faith, when in fact it's just the human element that you're identifying.


    The dude's got me. Allahuakbar and all that I guess.



    http://iisc.ca/announcements/domestic-violence/

    OK teacher ...   

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #7 - August 24, 2015, 09:01 PM

    That's a self-contended, arrogant looking face Yeez. Whose is it? I'm not sure I like the owner.

    Hi
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #8 - August 24, 2015, 09:03 PM

    ^he actually was one of my teachers at one point or the other Grin can't for the life of me remember what subject or course. Was it fiqh?

    But seriously, that guy that was quoted from fb is too arrogant for his own good. I wonder how he explains people who actually knew and studied the faith and left because of that very reason. Are we just lost souls with a defective understanding, because we simply don't have the mental capacity to grasp "true knowledge". From experience, it usually sound something like that.


    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #9 - August 25, 2015, 12:03 AM

    Taken from facebook:

    The dude's got me. Allahuakbar and all that I guess.


    Dude ranting on facebook about reddit and wiki. Very convincing!
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #10 - August 25, 2015, 02:25 PM

    Quote
    But, since you probably don't know anything about the texts being quoted to you, you take these things as gospel (lol ‪#‎ironic‬ puns) - possibly related to a potential inferiority complex you may have


    Or perhaps its related to the fact that those interpretations (of the quoted texts) are the ones majority of sunni "scholars" hold? But lets just ignore that fact, because those "scholars" are wrong, and a (fringe) minority of muslims on the internet are right.

    Quote
    "struggling" Muslim-majority countries contrasted with "striving" western states are not a legitimate criticism of Islam. Especially while you conveniently forget about/overlook the purposeful and direct decimation of infrastructure of said Muslim-majority countries.


    Yes, when muslims in muslim majority countries oppress non-muslims (and muslim women) with basis in their understanding of hadith and quran, which also just happens to be the prevalent understanding of said material by the "scholars", then its naturally the decimation of infrastructure that is at fault, and it has got nothing to do with Islam.

    Religion can not, and never has, created liberal pluralistic societies, because religion divides people into believers and non-believers, where non-believers (and to a certain extent women) are deemed subhumans. When people take their religion a bit too seriously, and start oppressing, murdering and violating those sub-humans, it has of course got nothing to do with religion.

    Who is this rant directed at anyway? Perhaps such people need to learn to direct their frustration and anger at their own "scholars", instead of the atheist, agnostic and liberal muslims who are willing to admit that their religion has its fair share of negative aspects, which need to be reformed/annulled/modified.

    Societies of muslim-majority conutries are a mess, and it is partially due to Islam, not entirely, but partially, to deny that is to be intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant. But of course Islam is perfect because it just happens to be the religion I was indoctrinated with during childhood, while something like hinduism is vile with its caste system and what not, and don't even get me started on christianity.  Roll Eyes
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #11 - August 25, 2015, 04:27 PM

  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #12 - August 25, 2015, 06:11 PM

    If muslims admitted that Islam is not perfect, that there are rooms for improvements, and Islam, like all other religions, needs to adapt to an ever progressive world and not vice versa, they themselves would be the main beneficiaries of it.
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #13 - August 26, 2015, 12:36 AM

    Or perhaps its related to the fact that those interpretations (of the quoted texts) are the ones majority of sunni "scholars" hold? But lets just ignore that fact, because those "scholars" are wrong, and a (fringe) minority of muslims on the internet are right.

    Yes, when muslims in muslim majority countries oppress non-muslims (and muslim women) with basis in their understanding of hadith and quran, which also just happens to be the prevalent understanding of said material by the "scholars", then its naturally the decimation of infrastructure that is at fault, and it has got nothing to do with Islam.

    Religion can not, and never has, created liberal pluralistic societies, because religion divides people into believers and non-believers, where non-believers (and to a certain extent women) are deemed subhumans. When people take their religion a bit too seriously, and start oppressing, murdering and violating those sub-humans, it has of course got nothing to do with religion.

    Who is this rant directed at anyway? Perhaps such people need to learn to direct their frustration and anger at their own "scholars", instead of the atheist, agnostic and liberal muslims who are willing to admit that their religion has its fair share of negative aspects, which need to be reformed/annulled/modified.

    Societies of muslim-majority conutries are a mess, and it is partially due to Islam, not entirely, but partially, to deny that is to be intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant. But of course Islam is perfect because it just happens to be the religion I was indoctrinated with during childhood, while something like hinduism is vile with its caste system and what not, and don't even get me started on christianity.  Roll Eyes


     Afro

    Indeed. It's nothing more than a bullying tactic that's being employed. It gets a kind of gut response because some people might relate to the experiences he mentioned, but really most of the ex-muslims I know have had rather nuanced reasons for leaving the faith.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Checkmate Atheists?
     Reply #14 - August 26, 2015, 03:10 AM

    Quote
    epistemology


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