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 Topic: A letter to Ali Sina

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  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #30 - September 01, 2015, 06:54 AM
    If that's what would happen in a proper muslim state then why on Earth are you a muslim?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #31 - September 01, 2015, 08:23 AM
    Sorry I meant in a proper Muslim state people would be free to believe whatever they wanted to. Just like in the early past of Arabs where Jews, Christians, Muslims and probably atheists as well were able to do so.

    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #32 - September 01, 2015, 08:48 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 06:51 AM
    I think in a proper Muslim state you would get that. But we don't have any proper Muslim state so far as I've seen. 

    Rubbish

    Quote
    Edit: In a proper Muslim state you would have the freedom to say what you want within reason and be able to discuss. Pretty much like in UK and US. Except that US and UK are now allowing people to insult and offend mostly Muslims and calling it freedom of speech.

    rubbish.....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #33 - September 01, 2015, 09:14 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 30, 2015, 11:26 PM
    To word it in a way that might make sense to you as a believer, the right to think and speak as you see fit is the most sacred and holy right there is. There is no greater sin, no greater blasphemy, than to deny this right.

     Afro Agreed, agreed, thrice agreed.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #34 - September 01, 2015, 09:38 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 06:51 AM
    I just find it really strange that some people must be vocal about stating their PERSONAL opinion and thoughts and top of that knowing they may be physically abused for it. It's like you're asking for a beating from people who are more that willing to dish it out. Why not go and find people like yourself and hang around with them?

    I used to have people regularly wanting to beat me up for the way I dressed.

    Should I have found a group of like-minded individuals and paraded our outfits in the safety of one of our bedrooms?

    As most of my friends are women wouldn't there be less scope for sin if people simply allowed me to prance the streets in flamboyant (and frequently ill-advised) garb?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #35 - September 01, 2015, 09:44 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 06:51 AM
    I just find it really strange that some people must be vocal about stating their PERSONAL opinion and thoughts and top of that knowing they may be physically abused for it. It's like you're asking for a beating from people who are more that willing to dish it out. Why not go and find people like yourself and hang around with them?

    I'm not saying it's OK for atheists to have their freedoms taken away. I think in a proper Muslim state you would get that. But we don't have any proper Muslim state so far as I've seen. The vast majority of Muslims are blind followers in my opinion. But it just seems silly to knowingly antagonise people.

    Edit: In a proper Muslim state you would have the freedom to say what you want within reason and be able to discuss. Pretty much like in UK and US. Except that US and UK are now allowing people to insult and offend mostly Muslims and calling it freedom of speech.


    Sorry but your approach is that of a coward who is complicit in allowing oppressors a free hand.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #36 - September 01, 2015, 09:59 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 08:23 AM
    Sorry I meant in a proper Muslim state people would be free to believe whatever they wanted to. Just like in the early past of Arabs where Jews, Christians, Muslims and probably atheists as well were able to do so.



    You can do that now in the western word. Does that maker us islamic? No, of course not. It's not a uniquely islamic concept, it's a concept islam shares. And out of curiosity, since this harmony never lasted, what do you consider the last muslim state?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #37 - September 01, 2015, 10:48 AM
    I think if I was living in a muslim country, I would have been hung, drawn and quatered by now, can't keep my mouth shut.

    CallmeTed, the Islamic state you talk of, yes, perhaps Christians, Jews, etc may be given the rights to practice their faith as they please, but the Muslim's would have no freedom, they wouldn't be able to apostatize, convert to another religion or become an atheist, once a muslim always a muslim until you die.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #38 - September 01, 2015, 11:19 AM
    Quote from: David on September 01, 2015, 09:38 AM
    I used to have people regularly wanting to beat me up for the way I dressed.

    Should I have found a group of like-minded individuals and paraded our outfits in the safety of one of our bedrooms?

    As most of my friends are women wouldn't there be less scope for sin if people simply allowed me to prance the streets in flamboyant (and frequently ill-advised) garb?


    Yes. It's called using your common sense.

    Would walk down a dark ally where passer-bys are regularly mugged? Or are you going to do it just because you need to exercise your right to go where you please?
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #39 - September 01, 2015, 11:24 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on September 01, 2015, 09:44 AM
    Sorry but your approach is that of a coward who is complicit in allowing oppressors a free hand.


    I guess it's going to boil down to what your purpose is in life. If it's to stand up to oppressors then go for it and be ready to bear the consequences. If you are willing to die for it then that's your choice you signed up for it. However I think people can have more meaningful lives by doing things which are far more productive such as help the needy, study and work.

    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #40 - September 01, 2015, 11:25 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 11:19 AM
    Yes. It's called using your common sense.

    1). Would walk down a dark ally where passer-bys are regularly mugged?

    2). Or are you going to do it just because you need to exercise your right to go where you please?

    let me highlight the word "commonsense"

    Well, Ted we could use the same commonsense and  find other ways that are far better than those two you suggested for such mugging..

    It could be mugging by thugs...
    it could be mugging by religious thugs
    it could be be mugging by religious preachers in the name of your god in collusion with the ruling elites of a society     ..etc..etc..  

    So I argue you to think more alternatives along with those two you suggested
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #41 - September 01, 2015, 11:26 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 11:24 AM
    I guess it's going to boil down to what your purpose is in life.  

    Fantastic question ..  tell me about it Ted..  

    What is your purpose in life? and what is life?

    and what does this allah/god whatever ... does to this life and to the life's purpose?
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #42 - September 01, 2015, 11:33 AM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 08:23 AM
    Sorry I meant in a proper Muslim state people would be free to believe whatever they wanted to. Just like in the early past of Arabs where Jews, Christians, Muslims and probably atheists as well were able to do so.


    Can you give us an example of proper Muslim state, from past, present?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #43 - September 01, 2015, 11:39 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on September 01, 2015, 09:59 AM
    You can do that now in the western word. Does that maker us islamic? No, of course not. It's not a uniquely islamic concept, it's a concept islam shares. And out of curiosity, since this harmony never lasted, what do you consider the last muslim state?


    This is a common misunderstanding that Muslims represent Islam/God. The term "Muslim" is now just a label which means a person who follows the Quran and believes Mohammed is a messenger of God. The proper meaning is someone who has chosen to accept God and obey his revelations. This can apply to Jews, Christians, and people of other religions who have one God and have been given divine revelation. When you are not obeying the revelation of God you are just a plain believer. You can be good believer or bad believer. When you're a muslim you are both good and obeying the law of God.

    There were many nations that believed in God but they were punished by God or destroyed. Believing in God does not save you. Your actions and heart save you. If you read the Quran properly God is mostly warning and threatening the believers. He's not saying oh you believe you are now saved and you can rest now. It clearly says the believers need to save themselves from hellfire.

    But peoples arrogance and brainwashing from a young age makes them think they are automatically saved. A bit like Christians thinking they are saved.

    It's so frustrating how much misunderstanding there is about God. Which is why God makes it a very big sin to lie in the name of God because it can take many people away from God, from the truth.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #44 - September 01, 2015, 11:45 AM
    Quote from: nbhb on September 01, 2015, 11:33 AM
    Can you give us an example of proper Muslim state, from past, present?


    Quick google gave me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Baghdad

    I don't know of any present ones but there may be. I haven't travelled much.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #45 - September 01, 2015, 11:56 AM
    History of Baghdad? I really don't get it, sorry but I'm confused... I asked for what you called a proper Muslim state. Baghdad is a city... Or do you meant the Abbasid caliphate was a proper Muslim state?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #46 - September 01, 2015, 11:58 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 01, 2015, 11:26 AM
    Fantastic question ..  tell me about it Ted..  

    What is your purpose in life? and what is life?

    and what does this allah/god whatever ... does to this life and to the life's purpose?


    That's a separate topic yeez darling.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #47 - September 01, 2015, 12:06 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on September 01, 2015, 11:56 AM
    History of Baghdad? I really don't get it, sorry but I'm confused... I asked for what you called a proper Muslim state. Baghdad is a city... Or do you meant the Abbasid caliphate was a proper Muslim state?


    Does it matter? Does not the fact that a city created by Muslims which encouraged learning and trade demonstrate a different interpretation of the Quran? I'm not sure what you are looking for but it's not God's intention to have cookie cutter type of Muslim states spreading all over the world. Where everyone dresses the same and eats the same foods and has the same traditions. They key things to look for are justice and peace from being focused on God.

    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #48 - September 01, 2015, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: suki on September 01, 2015, 10:48 AM
    I think if I was living in a muslim country, I would have been hung, drawn and quatered by now, can't keep my mouth shut.

    CallmeTed, the Islamic state you talk of, yes, perhaps Christians, Jews, etc may be given the rights to practice their faith as they please, but the Muslim's would have no freedom, they wouldn't be able to apostatize, convert to another religion or become an atheist, once a muslim always a muslim until you die.


    Well then they are not following the Quran. God tells the prophet that people can't change peoples mind it's only God who can guide. People can just spread the word of God. Those who do can be evil as well. Apostasy is clearly not in the Quran. It's from the hadiths. The problem is that you can't reason with uncivilised people.

    If you are killed for apostasy then maybe God will forgive you all your sins and then you'll be the one of the happiest being ever in the hereafter. It's so frustrating to see people looking towards the majority of blind muslims.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #49 - September 01, 2015, 12:22 PM
    They should instead look towards Ted, a fella who's got it all figured out.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #50 - September 01, 2015, 12:27 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 11:24 AM
    I guess it's going to boil down to what your purpose is in life. If it's to stand up to oppressors then go for it and be ready to bear the consequences. If you are willing to die for it then that's your choice you signed up for it. However I think people can have more meaningful lives by doing things which are far more productive such as help the needy, study and work.




    Even the views you express would be considered kufr by some. So by your logic why don't you keep them to yourself?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #51 - September 01, 2015, 12:30 PM
    I am happy to die for my right to express my thoughts. It's the only thing I have. Take that away and life, which has little meaning as it is, will have none at all.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #52 - September 01, 2015, 12:31 PM
    It would depend on where I am Hassan. People here in the UK are pretty relaxed. If I was somewhere else where I knew the people are less tolerant then yes I'd keep it to myself.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #53 - September 01, 2015, 12:33 PM
    I also take back and apologise for the accusation of being a coward, Call me Ted, as that was uncalled for and unfair.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #54 - September 01, 2015, 12:38 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on September 01, 2015, 12:06 PM
    Does it matter? Does not the fact that a city created by Muslims which encouraged learning and trade demonstrate a different interpretation of the Quran? I'm not sure what you are looking for but it's not God's intention to have cookie cutter type of Muslim states spreading all over the world. Where everyone dresses the same and eats the same foods and has the same traditions. They key things to look for are justice and peace from being focused on God.


    It matters if it is something utopic Ted, which it is.

    And I'm not sure if you referred to Mutazilities, but if you did they were wiped out.  
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #55 - September 01, 2015, 12:41 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on September 01, 2015, 12:30 PM
    I am happy to die for my right to express my thoughts. It's the only thing I have. Take that away and life, which has little meaning as it is, will have none at all.


    That's you then Hassan but not the vast majority of people. If you think that is the only thing you have then it seems you still don't understand the Quran even though you spent so long learning it. Do you understand that many of the prophets of God suffered a lot more than you? Do you understand that God was there all the time watching all of it. Do you understand why he let some of the prophets die at the hands of the disbelievers? It was to show what is in peoples hearts.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #56 - September 01, 2015, 12:44 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on September 01, 2015, 12:33 PM
    I also take back and apologise for the accusation of being a coward, Call me Ted, as that was uncalled for and unfair.


    No problem.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #57 - September 01, 2015, 12:50 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on September 01, 2015, 12:22 PM
    Ted, a fella who's got it all figured out.

    Rather wish I had.

    But then life would be so bloody dull, wouldn't it?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #58 - September 01, 2015, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on September 01, 2015, 12:38 PM
    It matters if it is something utopic Ted, which it is.

    And I'm not sure if you referred to Mutazilities, but if you did they were wiped out.  



    I don't believe a Muslim state is meant to be utopic. Even if you had a Muslim state which was at peace and everything it needed the people would be tested at some point. That's what God has created this world for. The perfect world only exists in the hereafter. This world has been designed to be flawed and temporary and contain hardship. So even if there was an ideal Muslim state with lots of wealth and security at some point it would be tested maybe hunger or loss in life or disease or whatever. Whether you are rich or poor you're going to be tested. It's impossible to avoid. The most painful is our emotional self, our ties with family, friends and our community. We have been designed to belong. It's very hard to break these emotional ties.

    People need to remember that Islam is not something which belongs exclusively to the followers of Mohammed. It's for all believing nations of one God.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #59 - September 01, 2015, 12:57 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on September 01, 2015, 12:22 PM
    I also take back and apologise for the accusation of being a coward, Call me Ted, as that was uncalled for and unfair.


    You can simply call me Ted Smiley.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
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