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 Topic: Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure

 (Read 2944 times)
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  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     OP - September 06, 2015, 08:01 PM

    I feel that Islamic Jesus is the biggest failure of all the prophets - despite his flashy entry on the stage of prophethood.  First of all, his mission seems blandly unimpressive:  preaching tawhid to an already monotheistic group, confirming what's in Torah, and giving glad tidings of a future messenger? that's it? seriously, is this a Messiah's playbook? or that of a third-rate israelite prophet? Secondly, he fails even to deliver on this puny agenda. He inadvertently manages to carve out the biggest polytheist group out of the jews, his followers don't follow Mosaic law anymore, and his glad tidings of a future Ahmed are nowhere to be found. Nowhere in the Quran his moral teachings are celebrated or even mentioned:  no turning the other cheek, no sermon on the mount, no ministry to the prostitutes etc. Even his dialogues to the disciples are one-dimensional rants: 'who will be my partner toward Allah'. I mean dude, you are the Messiah, help or no help, let's hear some words of eternal wisdom from you. Alas, those words, if there were any, never make it to the final cut in the Quran. All we see is the tawhid-freakness taking Jesus over. For moral teachings, we have to tune into obscure figures like Lucman that people outside Arabia would have no recollection of (even when Quran asks them to 'remember' him).
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #1 - September 06, 2015, 10:20 PM

    An excellent point.

    The author of the Quran turned Jesus into a talking puppet for Islamic theology. Happens all the time. According to the Mormons, Jesus came to preach Mormon theology. Hijack a famous religious figure and portray them as teaching your religion to lend you credibility. Some Buddhists claim Jesus was a Buddhist monk and his real message was something akin to Buddhist philosophy.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #2 - September 06, 2015, 10:20 PM

    Noah was an even bigger failure.  I mean 900 frickin years and fuckittt, let's down the bastards.
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #3 - September 06, 2015, 10:27 PM

    I mean the Jews point out to Christians that their Jesus did jack shit because there was no big military victory for Jews and the world peace under the reign of the messiah that was supposed to follow did not happen. However, Christians claim it was a "spiritual" victory over death that Jesus won by dying on the cross and being ressurected. The Islamic Jesus, on the other hand, did absolutely nothing useful or deserving of the title of messiah. I guess Islam holds to something of a second coming too where Jesus will kick ass, but what was the point of his first coming?

    Although the Christian version doesn't make a whole lot of sense, at least it posits a definite reason for his life and death in the first century.

    Zaotar will probably be commenting on this thread shortly and will blow us all away

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #4 - September 06, 2015, 10:36 PM

    I feel that Islamic Jesus is the biggest failure of all the prophets - despite his flashy entry on the stage of prophethood. ...........


    Hmmm,,  hello NeoApostate.....   So How many prophets are there in Islam  and who had the BIGGEST SUCCESS??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #5 - September 06, 2015, 10:39 PM

    Noah was an even bigger failure.  I mean 900 frickin years and fuckittt, let's down the bastards.

    Noah didn't arrive with that much fanfare on the world stage. He wasn't  given bombastic titles like 'Spirit of Allah', 'Word of Allah' and Messiah etc. At-least he was able to spread his seed around through his 4 sons ;-) - Jesus couldn't even pull that off.

    Justperusing
    I am not sure how much of the islamic eschatology can be directly traced to Quran, including the 2nd coming of Jesus. Plus even the 2nd mandate of Jesus is full of confusion as per islamic tradition.
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #6 - September 06, 2015, 10:44 PM

    Hmmm,,  hello NeoApostate.....   So How many prophets are there in Islam  and who had the BIGGEST SUCCESS??


    Not sure, but it can be said that Jesus's coming led to the highest number of potential believers to go astray.
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #7 - September 06, 2015, 11:47 PM

    Bear in mind that qur'anic Jesus was born of a Virgin... but Islam has no concept of Original Sin. There's no prohibition on sex, so there is absolutely no NEED for him to be born of a virgin.
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #8 - September 07, 2015, 12:00 AM

    I do have a theory about this interesting issue (as usual, I have loads of theories).  My view, which I have not seen anybody else assert, is that the Christology of the Qur'an is totally misunderstood.  I contend that what you see in the early surahs is an archaic form of anti-Chalcedonian thought in which Christ (the rabb) and the Father (the rabb) have been merged and completely assimilated, indivisible.  Thus there is no human Jesus left, nor are there any sacraments that would be dependent on a priesthood and a separate Jesus. 

    That is why there is no Jesus in the early surahs, a baffling fact which nobody has been able to adequately explain (it's not just that he's not mentioned positively, he isn't even mentioned negatively).  Incidentally, it also may explain why the Qur'an strangely says "We" despite constantly going on about the oneness of God -- what is emphasized by the plural is that God is a completely indivisible trinity, where the deity only incarnates as one, not ever as a separate being like Jesus.  This view emerged and was asserted as a counter to the tritheist 'heresy' that raged like wildfire among the Arabs at the end of the 6th century.

    When you see Jesus reappear in the Qur'an, it is in the much later surahs, and in my view this is a secondary hodgepodge assimilation of prevailing Jesus narratives to the much older Quranic theology that you see in the early surahs.  This secondary Jesus is very generic, and I call him an "instance of the Quranic messenger function," i.e. it is the logic of the Quranic messenger typology that is just being given names, with the underlying prophetic function driving the theology.

    That is why when Jesus shows up he's pretty much just like the other prophets, and gets killed by the treacherous Jews just like the others ... except, interestingly, he doesn't exactly get killed by them.  There are a few key points (virgin conception being the biggest) where Jesus could not entirely be assimilated to the generic messenger function, and this is one of them.  When people wonder why the Qur'an is so confusing about how and why Jesus died (if he did), I think this is because the Quranic narratives are really an example of *incomplete assimilation* of the Jesus narratives to the underlying archaic Quranic Christology, which left no space for a human Christ.  Jesus, therefore, could only reappear as an instance of the Quranic messenger function, a generic human prophet.
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #9 - September 07, 2015, 12:09 AM

    Zaotar will probably be commenting on this thread shortly and will blow us all away


    My prediction came true. I am the real prophet here.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #10 - September 07, 2015, 12:25 AM

    I think that Muhammad has perhaps returned to us .... he shall be called JustPerusing, and his Sunnah focuses on Freddie Mercury.
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #11 - September 07, 2015, 02:14 AM

    ...peace be upon me

    My first surah:

    Surah al-Queen (1:1)

    There must be more to life than this
    There must be more to life than this
    How can we cope in a world without love?
    Mending all those broken hearts and tending to those crying faces?

    http://youtu.be/mgKSv0gK_NA

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #12 - September 07, 2015, 02:30 AM

    Quote
    ...peace be upon me

    Hmm..this rings a bell of sorts.. who said it before..

    Oh yeah, it was JESUS!

    So justperusing, who are you the second coming of again?
  • Quranic Jesus - a miserable failure
     Reply #13 - September 07, 2015, 02:54 AM

    I thought you would pick up on that from my previous profile pic...


    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
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