Ahh, asbie. My least and most favorite philosopher.
Ah, you flatterer. Your underhanded tactics are one of the things that make you my favorite poster.
First, let me say that you and I appear to fundamentally disagree on what makes a terrorist. I guess see my reply to nhbh if you're interested.
I do think you're very much on the money with your assessment of what makes these people tick. Jihadist Islam is
the premier ideology of post-colonial anti capitalist nihilism. I think we're very much underestimating it if we don't see that. They're so frustrating precisely because their hate is so generalized for everyone and everything. And to me, that sort of thing is all too common and easy to tap into among more alienated male youth. And I hate to say it, but those factors creating the environment are going nowhere. Middle eastern wars and American involvement are perpetual, as are gross inequalities of opportunity and the extremely hierarchical societies that come with them.
But let's just say for a minute that I don't, and that Islam and the ideology is the main factor, and that the only reason that all mainstream Muslims aren't out killing people is that there's a weapons shortage.
As stated above, I don't actually disagree with you on this. I'm just far less hopeful about any solution than you are.
It's interesting you mention the internet age. The fact that it is the internet age, and that we're standing at the start of an era that is radically unlike any that came before, is, in my opinion, the most important reason, if not the only reason, we stand a chance.
More than standing a chance, I'd go so far as to say that fundamental interpretations of Islam don't. Ideas and information are now being rapidly spread, easier than ever. People are traveling. The smoke and mirrors of religion, the errors of religion are becoming glaringly obvious in the contrast. More and more people are leaving religion, or claiming to just be "spiritual," or cherry-picking and making their own rules for the religion. More and more people are identifying as atheists, even in places like Saudi Arabia, where it's a miracle that you can get anyone to admit that at all.
The decreasing influence of religion as a mainstream force does not preclude it from being a motivating source for a radical fringe. Religious influence has declined over time as well in the United States, but I don't think we can at all say we're free from Christian extremist violence, or seem to be moving in that direction.
Fundamentalism doesn't stand a chance, and deep down, fundamentalists know it. They feel it. When was the last time you looked around, asbie, and listened to the chief concerns of the religious? They're fucking terrified. They see that atheism is rising, that people are drifting away from religion, that their Muslim children are becoming Westernized, that their Christian children are drifting away from the faith and religious morals. They're losing, and they know it.
I can't tell you how many times I sat on the carpet of the mosque and listened to a sermon either entirely dedicated to, or, in some cases, laced with this same anxiety, the same understanding that the end is near, that the death of religion as we know it is coming. Sermons about how to keep your children religious, how to keep your values, how to shelter yourself and your family from other people, from the internet, from learning and hearing and thinking. And it's an uphill battle. And it's one that they're destined to lose.
My previous point applies to this as well. Even if we're hopeful and these are the "death throes" of religion, they're going to last our entire lifetimes and profoundly color almost all of our lives.
You're right that it's harder to stay safe. That's why people who put themselves out there (and there's a few of them on this very forum who have left everything completely out in the open for all to see) are seriously hard on my heart. It scares the hell out of me, and, at the same time, there's no one I could respect more than these people, whether they wind up like Avijit Roy or Raif Badawi or manage to go their whole natural lives unscathed. It's an enormous task. It's an enormous risk.
Indeed, hats off to these folks.
It's true that there's a lot about Islam and cultural aspects that one should take issue with. Things that need to be brought up, that need to be addressed, and we need to demand change. That's what this site is best for. That's what we, people who know these issues most intimately, should be best for. And that's what we need to do, but we need to do it carefully, and fairly.
You're right that it is a holding pattern. Just like Christianity in its more peaceful and stable state today is really just holding for now. But it's holding while the natural progression of our new era continues to drift a light over these religions under which none of them can survive.
What we need to do is to help keep this moving in that direction, to put our anger and our motivation where it will be used properly. And if we can't do that, at the very least, we need to step aside and let time do what it does best without our interference because we were too demoralized and too emotional to respond with tact.
Well I certainly hope I haven't responded in some detrimental way. Senseless loss of life is nothing if not demoralizing. Nor do I think I've responded unfairly in any way, unless we consider a general pessimism about the human condition to be unfair. I don't consider the common Muslim to be the cause of any of this, and they are often just as much if not more the victims than non-Muslims.
So yeah, that's my 2 cents on all of this. I hope you do continue to grace us with your presence on this forum whenever you can find time for breaks lua as you do really bring thoughtful perspectives to these complex issues. Until next time.
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