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Theme Changer

 Topic: Fuck Saudi Arabia

 (Read 30811 times)
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  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #30 - November 28, 2015, 06:29 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on November 28, 2015, 12:56 PM
    It doesn't show a lack of nuanced understanding, it just assumes the audience can infer what is meant based on the context.

    Actually, that's just not true. Most people aren't aware of the political forces in Saudi, nor in any of the other Gulf Arab monarchies. They're all viewed like autocratic regimes hellbent on enforcing a strict interpretation of Islam.

    Arab monarchies seek to maintain harmony, and that includes harmony with the Islamists. We might not like it, but it's not fair to paint the entire political system with a broad brush and claim that they're religious fanatics just because they seek to maintain harmony. People tend to have a very Western-centric view of monarchy and are oblivious to how the political systems in the Gulf function.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #31 - November 28, 2015, 07:16 PM
    I'm just going to assume your comments aren't directed at me specifically, since you are not saying anything I disagree with.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #32 - November 28, 2015, 07:50 PM
    Quote from: Absurdist on November 28, 2015, 06:29 PM
    Actually, that's just not true. Most people aren't aware of the political forces in Saudi, nor in any of the other Gulf Arab monarchies. They're all viewed like autocratic regimes hellbent on enforcing a strict interpretation of Islam.

    Arab monarchies seek to maintain harmony, and that includes harmony with the Islamists. We might not like it, but it's not fair to paint the entire political system with a broad brush and claim that they're religious fanatics just because they seek to maintain harmony. People tend to have a very Western-centric view of monarchy and are oblivious to how the political systems in the Gulf function.


    EDIT: Re-read this properly. They sure have a twisted idea of "harmony"! :s
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #33 - November 28, 2015, 08:14 PM
    Well, it's harmony so long as they get to stay in power. C.R.E.A.M.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #34 - November 28, 2015, 09:10 PM
    Its EXACTLY the same justification that's used in China, coincidentally for why reform is slow.

    Fuck human rights abusing regimes, wherever they are (including the US when it does it).
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #35 - November 28, 2015, 09:26 PM
    Agreed - We should be judging everyone based on the same rules and same expectations, not pander to them because "cultural differences".
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #36 - November 28, 2015, 09:51 PM
    Plenty of great things coming out of there these days:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ashraf-fayadh-saudi-arabia-to-sue-twitter-user-describing-palestinian-poets-death-sentence-as-isis-a6749591.html

    Quote
    Saudi Arabia will sue any Twitter user who compares the Kingdom’s recent decision to execute a poet to punishments handed down by Isis.


    They'd probably prefer to execute them, but I guess you can't have everything.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #37 - November 28, 2015, 11:07 PM
    Quote from: Absurdist on November 28, 2015, 06:29 PM
    Actually, that's just not true. Most people aren't aware of the political forces in Saudi, nor in any of the other Gulf Arab monarchies.

    Hmm.. Yes that is true Absurdist.,   Most people indeed aren't aware of the political forces in Saudi and in other Gulf Arab monarchies..,  So explain me where are these political forces? are they Islamic political forces?   are they western political forces?  do these forces come from East of Arabia??  
    Quote
    They're all viewed like autocratic regimes hellbent on enforcing a strict interpretation of Islam.

    well they use Islam for their political/economical power to keep their monarchs .. aren't they??

    Quote
    Arab monarchies seek to maintain harmony, and that includes harmony with the Islamists. We might not like it, but it's not fair to paint the entire political system with a broad brush and claim that they're religious fanatics just because they seek to maintain harmony. People tend to have a very Western-centric view of monarchy and are oblivious to how the political systems in the Gulf function.

    rest of that post is irrelevant but that sounds like  what happy_M said here
    Quote from: happymurtad on November 28, 2015, 08:16 PM
    It just teaches us that it's sunna to bend the rules a little bit when it suits you, mashaAllah.

     let me modify that HM post to suit your post..

    "Our great Arab monarchies seek to maintain harmony for all people in Islam ..  .  Our Arab monarchies teach us the sunna ..  they enforce  on all middle eastern citizens to   follow that sunna ..and.. and  bend the rules a little bit when it suits them.. mashaAllah... ....

    anyways let me read this  Repercussions of Paris attacks  at  arabnews.com of my favorite author Rasheed Abou-Alsamh

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #38 - November 29, 2015, 02:59 AM
    Quote from: Lassan on November 28, 2015, 09:51 PM
    Plenty of great things coming out of there these days:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ashraf-fayadh-saudi-arabia-to-sue-twitter-user-describing-palestinian-poets-death-sentence-as-isis-a6749591.html

    They'd probably prefer to execute them, but I guess you can't have everything.


    Suing twitter user?? God they are getting desperate.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #39 - November 29, 2015, 08:14 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on November 28, 2015, 07:16 PM
    I'm just going to assume your comments aren't directed at me specifically, since you are not saying anything I disagree with.

    I just think it's unwise to say things like "Fuck Saudi Arabia" when we know that can pander to the Western-centric anti-Saudi circle jerk. I understand the frustration, but it doesn't do any good for progress in Saudi. Now I know it's just a thread title, but the problem is that many people have this approach of "Fuck Saudi Arabia". When you say those things, it alienates progressives from the region. I know for me personally and many other Gulf Arabs, we just roll our eyes when we hear this oversimplified and cliched rhetoric against Gulf states, despite the fact that we want progress more than anyone else.

    Quote from: asbie on November 28, 2015, 09:10 PM
    Its EXACTLY the same justification that's used in China, coincidentally for why reform is slow.

    Fuck human rights abusing regimes, wherever they are (including the US when it does it).

    I think you're missing what I'm trying to say. I'm not justifying human rights abuses, regardless of the cultures or justifications used. All I'm saying is that it's important to have some nuance in our discussion and critique, so that we can actually deal with the root cause. Saying "Fuck human rights abuses" and pumping our clenched fists in the air is not going to bring change.

    Human rights abuses are not right, regardless of culture, but when we want to bring about progress, we need to do it within the framework of a certain culture. One of the main reasons Arab states and societies are where they are today, with failed states and sectarianism, is precisely because the Western model doesn't work in Arab culture. Robert Fisk recently wrote a great article about this: link.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #40 - November 29, 2015, 11:04 AM
    Yeah well, the title was in direct response to the news that their judicial system was keen on executing 51 people, some for expressing ideas no more explosive than the stuff we talk about here. In that context, fuck them.

    I've lived in the kingdom and made great acquaintances there and from there for the better part of 30 years now, so I do get what you're saying. I hope no one saw the title and expected to see an in-depth scholarly critique of Saudi society as a whole.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #41 - November 29, 2015, 12:16 PM
    dear Absurdist ., in your response to the the title of this thread, you have added whole lot  of issues  and de-focussed/confused everything and the readers.

     You went from calling a Shia Clerk  as Western-centric anti-Saudi circle jerk ., .... to saying "human rights abuse in the sand kingdom are not right" ; .....to coupling your post  with that  Robert Fisk  article  in independent.co.uk .   That is simply drifting away from problems which  are created by the SAUDI SAUD REGIME OF SAND LAND along with western powers for the sake of oil under sand land.

    Let me respond point wise
    Quote from: Absurdist on November 29, 2015, 08:14 AM
    I just think it's unwise to say things like "Fuck Saudi Arabia" when we know that can pander to the Western-centric anti-Saudi circle jerk. I understand the frustration, but it doesn't do any good for progress in Saudi.

     Sorry to say this but every reader understands what Happy_M meant there by putting a heading " "Fuck Saudi Arabia" ., The insult is meant for  its government., it is meant for  its judiciary system that gives beheading orders which i controlled by sauds of sand land.,  ., It means the Sauds of sand land for the sake of their power persecute any one in Saudi Arabia who opposes their regime...

    by writing  "Fuck Saudi Arabia" "Happy_M didn't mean to fuck the Sands of Saudi Arabia........ Did not mean to fuck the oil under the sand land........ and last but not least did not mean to Insult folks in Saudi Arabia.."

    I am sure you who wrote some 9000 posts into this forum and you must have read at least  another 10000 posts., sure  will understand what Happy_meant there.   And I guess you are calling Shia Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr of Arabia as "Western-centric anti-Saudi circle jerk. ".. I don't think that is right., He may be Iran centric .. he may be Russian centric.. He may be Shia Centric.. BUT HE CAN NOT BE WESTERN CENTRIC...

    Absurdist "correct me if I am wrong"

     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #42 - November 29, 2015, 02:34 PM
    Yeez is responding cogently, and making understandable points. What apocalyptic scenario have I wandered into?  Cheesy
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #43 - November 30, 2015, 06:37 AM
    Quote from: Absurdist on November 29, 2015, 08:14 AM
    Human rights abuses are not right, regardless of culture, but when we want to bring about progress, we need to do it within the framework of a certain culture. One of the main reasons Arab states and societies are where they are today, with failed states and sectarianism, is precisely because the Western model doesn't work in Arab culture. Robert Fisk recently wrote a great article about this: link.


    Yes Western model doesn't work there, we finally figured out this. Robert Fisk article is not great,  a great article would have at least mentioned the main reason why our model doesn't work.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #44 - November 30, 2015, 10:14 AM
    ^^ didn't you tell me earlier that you do not come from the West?
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #45 - November 30, 2015, 11:20 AM
    Does Romania really count as "The West"?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #46 - November 30, 2015, 12:18 PM
    Nah, Eastern Europe so no more so than Russia.

    He did not tell me specifically where he was from though, only that he wasn't from the West.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #47 - November 30, 2015, 12:56 PM
    Russia shares a border with fucking China, you can probably see east Russia in west Alaska.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #48 - November 30, 2015, 12:59 PM
    Noam Chomsky on ISIS

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCedWxlG90M

    Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    So question is.. Are they right?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #49 - November 30, 2015, 01:10 PM
    Quote
    Russia shares a border with fucking China, you can probably see east Russia in west Alaska.


    That's true, but it also does with Finland and is still an Eastern country.

    It's all wordplay because somehow Greece is classified as part of Western Europe while countries like Poland which are closer to the west of Europe are Central Europe. Even more bizarrely Australia is somehow "The West" when if we were to go by location Japan would be as well in this case. All that being said Central and Eastern Europe aren't really viewed as part of the West.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #50 - November 30, 2015, 01:30 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 30, 2015, 01:10 PM
    That's true, but it also does with Finland and is still an Eastern country.

    Finns are Wildlings, not Westerners.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #51 - November 30, 2015, 01:35 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 30, 2015, 10:14 AM
    ^^ didn't you tell me earlier that you do not come from the West?

    West and Western Europe are not the same thing, I think. ..
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #52 - November 30, 2015, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 30, 2015, 01:10 PM
    That's true, but it also does with Finland and is still an Eastern country.

    It's all wordplay because somehow Greece is classified as part of Western Europe while countries like Poland which are closer to the west of Europe are Central Europe. Even more bizarrely Australia is somehow "The West" when if we were to go by location Japan would be as well in this case. All that being said Central and Eastern Europe aren't really viewed as part of the West.


    With Australia I imagine it's a culture thing.

    Quote from: David on November 30, 2015, 01:30 PM
    Finns are Wildlings, not Westerners.


     Cheesy
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #53 - November 30, 2015, 04:59 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 30, 2015, 01:10 PM
    It's all wordplay because somehow Greece is classified as part of Western Europe while countries like Poland which are closer to the west of Europe are Central Europe.

    I've lived in Greece and I certainly wouldn't consider it as part of Western Europe. It feels much more Near Eastern to me, or maybe the point where Europe and the Near East meet. That goes for Greece historically as well. There was never anything Western European about it.
    Which side are you on?
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #54 - November 30, 2015, 05:47 PM
    @all of the above that's what I meant by it being wordplay. It's no longer PC to use "The Civilised, the Barbarians and the Savages" so what's used now is "The First World, the Second World and the Third World" or to a lesser extent "The East and the West". It has much more to do with culture and economy than it does with geography. That being said the European countries that are counted as part of the West are mostly Western European countries.

    Sorry for derailing this thread, I shall stop.
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #55 - November 30, 2015, 08:55 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 30, 2015, 05:47 PM
    ......................

    Sorry for derailing this thread, I shall stop.

    well let me put it back...

    SAUDI ARABIA AND ISIS – A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON



    ISIS release seven rules for followers of other faiths that includes Muslims folks that don't adhere to their rules..

    Quote
    THE SEVEN RULES IN RETURN FOR CHRISTIANS' SAFETY

    No public worship

    No treachery against ISIS

    No church construction or repairs

    Do not display crosses in Muslim areas or markets

    Praying must be done quietly and should never be heard by Muslims

    No mockery of Muslims or Islam

    Do not prevent others from converting to Islam

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #56 - December 01, 2015, 10:18 AM
    Careful yeez. You compare KSA and the islamic state on twitter, they'll sue you. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-s-threat-to-sue-people-who-compare-them-to-isis-prompts-huge-reaction-from-twitter-a6752651.html
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #57 - December 01, 2015, 11:11 AM
    ^It has its own hashtag: #SueMeSaudi
    Which side are you on?
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #58 - December 01, 2015, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: Absurdist on November 28, 2015, 09:35 AM
    One fact that many anti-Saudis seem oblivious of is how progressive King Abdullah was, and how much he invested in science and technology. Now, Saudi is far from being a haven of science and progress and reason, but it's been making some pretty big steps in the right direction (or it was, under King Abdullah, at least). He also fought against the religious scholars in pushing for women's rights in education, and he opened the first coed university in Saudi Arabia.


    Well, excuse my blindness, but for some reason I feel like it will require a greater gesture than just investing in science and technology to make up for the legacy of barbarity and sadism visited upon freethinkers by this dynasty of stupidity and cruelty.  

    Science and technology, alone, cannot flourish without the light of reason and skepticism.  To praise the King for his embrace of science is like praising a gardener for trying to plant a tree in a desolate and infertile field which has been neglected for years.  Science must be nourished by the liberal values which gave birth to it in the first place.  To deny these first principles, while championing the culture of innovation and technology that transpires from those values, is just logically outrageous.
    "Belief can blunt human reason and common sense, even in learned scholars. What is needed is more impartial study." - Ali Dashti

    https://certainlydoubtful1.wordpress.com/

    https://twitter.com/certainlydoubt1
  • Fuck Saudi Arabia
     Reply #59 - December 01, 2015, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 01, 2015, 10:18 AM
    Careful yeez. .............  they'll sue you.




    And I want to sue all those dotted lands and the leaders/governments over there that are printed in  RAZIB KHAN • NOVEMBER 2, 2015  Article

    % of Muslims who accept death penalty for apostasy
    Afghanistan..............99%..............79%..............78%
    Pakistan..............84%..............76%..............64%
    Egypt   74%   86%   64%
    Palestinian territories   89%   66%   “59%
    Jordan   71%   82%   58%
    Malaysia   86%   62%   53%
    Iraq   91%   42%   38%
    Bangladesh   82%   44%   36%
    Tunisia   56%   29%   16%
    Lebanon   29%   46%   13%
    Indonesia   72%   18%   13%
    Tajikstan   27%   22%   6%
    Kyrgyzstan   35%   14%   5%
    Bosnia   15%   15%   2%
    Kosovo   20%   11%   2%
    Turkey   12%   17%   2%
    Albania   12%   8%   1%
    Kazakhstan   10%   4%   0%

    and and arrest all those rascals that are in in that highlighted %
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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