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Theme Changer

 Topic: "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"

 (Read 2268 times)
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  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     OP - November 28, 2015, 06:39 PM
    Many Muslims seem to repeat this argument, so I'm sharing what I wrote to a Muslim. It may be very well deficient, but I'm looking for advice on how to improve my argument when a Muslim says this.

    I think I can safely say that the stereotype that many Muslims have on Ex-Muslims is that they left Islam because of their culture without any critical study on Islam.

    Here was my reply to him when he insisted I left due to culture and not Islam. I made the argument that Islam and Culture were meant to be one as mandated by Muhammad:

    "You seem to misunderstand the point. Indian/Pakistani culture has their own version of Islam (Sufism) Vs. the Arab (Wahabi) version of Islam. Muslims come with the pathetic hope of uniting "ONE UMMAH" and "ONE RELIGION" but it will never happen. And the reason is because religion and culture are together and never will be separated. Is this the fault of the Muslims? No. the fairy tale "Allah" is at fault. The moment Muhammad started telling people on how to eat, how to dress, how to keep their beards, how women dressed, etc. he failed. He wanted islam and culture to be one.. Even making apostasy laws counts as something cultural. Not revelation. Many muslims accept it, and there are some muslims who don't. Many Muslims dismiss this and counts this as "Siyassa (politics)" of the religion.. And it is impossible for everyone to be united on such petty values. The point is that all muslims have this idea that "culture" and "islam" is separate, so they make excuses on why people like me leave islam. They say for example, "well he left because he enjoyed the company of the kafirs too much." So you see, I said that culture and islam are one, because many muslims don't realize their own idiocy that Muhammad meant for islam and culture to be one."
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #1 - November 28, 2015, 07:38 PM
    Yeah, or they claim "you were spiritually abused", which implies that religious in its actual form isn't the cause.

    That anyone would look into the religion itself and be horrified by what's there in scripture is a thought they don't want to entertain at all. That doubt over faith actually begins with scripture is something they don't want to think about, because they insist they're perfect and rely on context. It doesn't excuse the inaccuracies there.


    Also, while not all cultures are equal, it doesn't change that not all religious values are equal, either. Maybe try bringing up issues like why God prescribes cutting off someone's hand for theft?=?
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #2 - November 28, 2015, 08:09 PM
    I remember I used to justify chopping the hand of the thief. I said that it would reduce crime rates.

    Justification is a dangerous thing.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #3 - November 28, 2015, 09:05 PM
    It's just apologia, really. And claiming that pointing this out = hate speech is nonsense in my book.
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #4 - November 29, 2015, 06:31 AM
    Yep,

    Muslims will claim they are the new generation being hated upon just like the African-Americans were hated and enslaved by whites in America.

    All this "political correctness" has taken its toll on America, and now we have to put up with it.

    Except the irrational part is on their end in wanting to dominate the world.

    "ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD. ALLAHU AKBAR!"
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #5 - November 29, 2015, 12:14 PM
    I know they already claim that, since said friend has lashed out at me more than once online for criticising Muslims. Also, the refusal of Liberals to acknowledge that Muslims aren't their religion, nor should they be treated like an ethnic group (I believe the term they use in the US is "POC", which I'm not fond of).

    I once tried telling this (non-Muslim) American lady whose work I admired about the Arab slave trade and how horrible it was; she wasn't having any of it and got defensive. I'm honestly sick of apologia from Western liberals when it comes to the atrocities done by Muslims past and present. "White people perfected racism!" You say that, but ask yourself if a black lives matters hashtag* would take off in the Middle East like it did in the Western world?

    [*A point someone raised on Twitter, which makes a lot of sense really.]
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #6 - November 29, 2015, 12:20 PM
    Most muslims will gladly shit on their cultural background in favour of their religious background.
    Pakistani: Pakistani culture is utter shit, Islam is the best.
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #7 - November 29, 2015, 12:25 PM
    Quote from: Roberto40 on November 29, 2015, 12:20 PM
    Most muslims will gladly shit on their cultural background in favour of their religious background.
    Pakistani: Pakistani culture is utter shit, Islam is the best.


    hello Roberto40  .. DId you know that was not the main point/focus of people of Pakistan  all the way until Bhutto was hanged since its birth in Indian sub-continent ??  

    Pakistan had its own fused culture ...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #8 - November 29, 2015, 03:17 PM
    Hilariously, my dad insists that the aim was to create a Muslim country with Islamic values rather than a secular state.

    (I don't even identify with Pakistan or Pakistani people, myself. Never did.)
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #9 - November 29, 2015, 05:17 PM
    Roberto,

    Check out this video. Pakistani Wahabis Vs. Pakistanis who are proud of their culture. It's funny because it's shot from the extremists point of view..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmMMr6wLbOc
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #10 - November 29, 2015, 05:27 PM
    "(I don't even identify with Pakistan or Pakistani people, myself. Never did.)"

    Bolton,

    Imagine how complicated my social life is. My parents are from Guyana. I can't relate to any Guyanese person in the world (all they do is act religious or play poker, videogames, drink beer, and club)

    I get mistaken for a Pakistani everyday because I look like one.

    I have nothing in common with Pakistani, Indian, or Arab people in general. Not being racist here, just talking about my preferences in race.

    I grew up in America my whole life as I was born here, instead of coming from a country.

    I only speak English (so I don't get the perks of communicating to other people of color)

    I have a somewhat of an American accent and went through a Muslim phase and now am a new agnostic atheist.

    I'm not posting this to feel sorry for myself, but boy did I complicate my life..

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #11 - November 30, 2015, 02:00 AM
    Quote from: ExMuslimVlogGuy on November 29, 2015, 06:31 AM
    Yep,

    Muslims will claim they are the new generation being hated upon just like the African-Americans were hated and enslaved by whites in America.



    I heard that complaint twenty years ago.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • "You Left Islam Because Of Culture, Not Islam"
     Reply #12 - November 30, 2015, 10:32 AM
    The history of Pakistan is tragic, and has seen the Pakistani constitution repeatedly bastardised by successive presidents for their own ends. If that were my country, I would weep.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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