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Theme Changer

 Topic: Soul searching

 (Read 3947 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Soul searching
     OP - December 05, 2015, 12:53 AM

    Salaam,

    I've been following the forum for around a month and I hope to learn and participate in the quest for seeking the truth.

    I was born in a relatively moderate muslim family. Practically all of my relatives are practicing Muslims.
    Despite being religious, non of my family members are intolerant and my folks are extremely nice, loving and hardworking people. Thus, I never took an issue with Islam per se because they turned out to be great people even though they are religious.

    This whole notion of religion is dangerous or somehow makes you evil never flew past me.

    At one point in life, I did a lot of research in comparative religion (or what I thought was in-depth research), and even became a Da'i as I was convinced of the truth. I might have even be party responsible for a couple of non-muslims accepting Islam.

    UNTIL
    I questioned the veracity of my research itself.

    I was naturally inclined to Islam because of my upbringing and environment (and as I mentioned earlier, I had no reason to think it was bad). This belief was further strengthened when I ran into material from Dr. Zakir Naik and having attended one of his live talks in my city in India.

    I browsed through his website and learned "how to respond to <christian/atheist/etc>".
    There was this program on his website that guides you on how to do dawah or something.

    Since he uses "logic", "reasoning" and "science" in deducing some of his conclusions, and being a student of science myself, it made even more sense to me.

    However, since the past few years now, I've come to realize, what I thought was research, was simply an intellectually dishonest excursion.

    The more I read, reason and question things, the more skeptical I have become.
    I feel cheated that most of the arguments that Dr. Zakir Naik used in his videos are intellectually dishonest.

    I'm guilty of having gotten carried away by the sensationalism of his talks but I know better now.
    However, being true to logic and reasoning, Dr. Naik's arguments are no reflection on Islam.

    Thus, here I am, soul searching, trying to seek the truth. Every day I see myself turning more skeptical and agnostic, but somehow it's hard for me to renounce a religion whose products have been incredible people in my life. At this point, I'm a non-practicing Muslim with an agnostic bias.

    Maybe all my family/relatives are such loving and nice people DESPITE religion. Who knows, seems my quest for truth is going to be long and hard.

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • Soul searching
     Reply #1 - December 05, 2015, 12:58 AM

     parrot Welcome to the forum. If you haven't come across it already you might want to read what Hassan has to say about being an agnostic Muslim.

    http://nation.com.pk/blogs/16-Sep-2015/why-i-self-identify-as-an-agnostic-muslim

    http://agnosticmuslimkhutbahs.blogspot.co.uk

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28556.0

    I'm not from a Muslim background myself so I've no other advice to offer, apart from taking your time and making up your own mind.
  • Soul searching
     Reply #2 - December 05, 2015, 01:47 AM

    I agree that Hassan is the guy to talk to.  yes

    I want to assure you that you're not alone in feeling this way. I know many Muslims that feel like that. They go through the route of proving Christians wrong, and then use science against atheists.. Then end up feeling a little stuck.

    Always question your beliefs and verify them.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Soul searching
     Reply #3 - December 05, 2015, 01:48 AM

    In my opinion it is people who have made religion palatable. Most are not following their religion to the letter of the law, but rather softening it and making it livable, humane.
    If you take religion and refuse to let it be filtered through the lens of humanity you get unbelievable brutality, the violence that angry gods are capable of, a position of ultimate judgement that humans rarely want to adopt.
    Because people are nicer than gods.
    Welcome.  parrot
    I am so glad you have a loving family.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Soul searching
     Reply #4 - December 05, 2015, 02:20 AM

    Quote
    Maybe all my family/relatives are such loving and nice people DESPITE religion.


    Well, a good study of that would be... what would some community/family behave without religion? What about WITH religion? And this time, look for the answer with no bias.

    Welcome!  parrot parrot

    In my opinion it is people who have made religion palatable. Most are not following their religion to the letter of the law, but rather softening it and making it livable, humane.
    If you take religion and refuse to let it be filtered through the lens of humanity you get unbelievable brutality, the violence that angry gods are capable of, a position of ultimate judgement that humans rarely want to adopt.
    Because people are nicer than gods.


    I agree with this! Although the gods didn't write religion, it's the people who wrote religion... in the name of the gods!
  • Soul searching
     Reply #5 - December 05, 2015, 07:10 AM

    Hassan Radwan runs an agnostic muslim FB group you might want to check out. Welcome to CEMB Forum.   parrot bunny parrot
  • Soul searching
     Reply #6 - December 05, 2015, 07:11 AM

     parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Soul searching
     Reply #7 - December 05, 2015, 06:04 PM

    Welcome! Could you expand on his intellectual dishonesty, in particular the instances that made you question your faith
  • Soul searching
     Reply #8 - December 05, 2015, 06:22 PM

    Zakir Naik is a egotistic moron, full of charisma but no substance much like the Evangelical preachers in the depths of America's right wing fundamental Christian movement. Same crap, different religion.
  • Soul searching
     Reply #9 - December 05, 2015, 06:55 PM

    This short video shows the reality of Zakir Naik. It has a shameful title "STUPID GIRL ARGUES WITH INTELLIGENT ZAKIR NAIK."

    It shows you how arrogant the followers are.. And Zakir Naik says at the end, "We will see how many follow you, and how many follow me!" The girl says, "I don't want followers!"

    It always makes me laugh because this is the behavior of Muslims. Only worried about converting the weak, and always playing mental gymnastics. It's all a game to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ySV2mCjVU

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Soul searching
     Reply #10 - December 06, 2015, 01:04 PM

     :finmad:Smug bastard ! Guess he feels pretty good about himself by attempting to embarrass a very astute young lady
  • Soul searching
     Reply #11 - December 06, 2015, 01:19 PM

    This short video shows the reality of Zakir Naik. It has a shameful title "STUPID GIRL ARGUES WITH INTELLIGENT ZAKIR NAIK."

    It shows you how arrogant the followers are.. And Zakir Naik says at the end, "We will see how many follow you, and how many follow me!" The girl says, "I don't want followers!"

    It always makes me laugh because this is the behavior of Muslims. Only worried about converting the weak, and always playing mental gymnastics. It's all a game to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ySV2mCjVU


    What is so appealing about someone who gets aggressive and arrogant when challenged? He kept shouting over her as well.
  • Soul searching
     Reply #12 - December 06, 2015, 02:26 PM

    I guess the same thing that's appealing about growing pubic hair on your face instead of a beard.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Soul searching
     Reply #13 - December 11, 2015, 01:54 AM

    Thanks for the kind welcome. I'll be looking to expand my knowledge and objectivity.

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • Soul searching
     Reply #14 - December 11, 2015, 02:00 AM

     Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Soul searching
     Reply #15 - December 11, 2015, 02:44 AM


    Because people are nicer than gods.

    But humans created God, ergo ..

    Quote
    I am so glad you have a loving family.

    I'm very lucky I must admit.

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • Soul searching
     Reply #16 - December 11, 2015, 02:51 AM

    Perhaps not all people created the gods. Perhaps just a few power mad charismatic people created the gods and the rest of us thought we might go along with it just in case. As a precaution. Oops!

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Soul searching
     Reply #17 - December 11, 2015, 03:04 AM

    Fair enough.

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • Soul searching
     Reply #18 - December 11, 2015, 03:05 AM

    Well, they need to move it don't they? When we didn't understand illness, disease, mental disorders, heart attacks, autism, cancer, we had nothing to go on except spirits, demons, wrathful gods. We didn't understand why mountains would spew fire and destroy our homes, how the sun rose and set. The only answer we had was that it was the work of the gods. As our knowledge and understanding grew, we had the answers to things that made our ancestors shiver in terror, holding each other for comfort in the face of the terrifying dark. Today is different. We have the entire world at our fingertips and immediate access to knowledge our forefathers never dreamed of. The old gods gave way to new gods and today those new gods have become tired and old and are growing smaller and smaller.

    People are no longer satisfied with tales of magic gardens and talking snakes and punishment for neighbouring tribes. Humanity is growing up and those who wish to keep us fearful of the dark are being dragged kicking and screaming into the light, trying all the while to hold us back. I won't let them. This world is beautiful, my mind is continuously expanding and brimming with new information and thoughts and knowledge and ideas and dreams. Their gods are relics of a dead age, and I am not satisfied with them. I won't allow them to make me cower in the dark in terror of the unknown. I will embrace the dawn. My eyes are wide open and I won't go back in the cave for anyone.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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