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Theme Changer

 Topic: "Allah knows best"

 (Read 2318 times)
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  • "Allah knows best"
     OP - December 16, 2015, 08:34 AM

    So I engaged a friend in a conversation about my growing skepticism about Islam or religion in general.

    I told him that some of the things like slavery and sex with the slave women after killing their family make me really uncomfortable. I told him I've been reading and re-reading and trying to seek the Truth.

    After the usual retorts of "slaves were treated humanely etc", when confronted further, he told me:
    "Seek refuge from satan before you start reading.  Allah says with this book i guided many and put many a stray".

    and then came the ultimate line:

    "Allah knows best."

    "When taken into context, it seems reasonable".

    How do you respond to that? I mean, I'm starting to think it's fruitless to engage in an objective discussion.

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #1 - December 16, 2015, 11:01 AM

    How does that differ from Judaism and Christianity? Muslims are always accusing their followers of having blind faith.

    What reason have you got to believe in Islam when there are several aspects of the religion that you can't get a satisfactory answer for? Ask him what he would say if you were a non-Muslim at a Dawah stall, what he would say to convince you that Islam is the truth.

    What context makes slavery reasonable  Huh?
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #2 - December 16, 2015, 11:06 AM

    ..............
    What context makes slavery reasonable  Huh?


    well when slave likes slavery and enjoy slavery .

    ..what any one can do??  but you can not make rules on it,  write nonsense in the name some god voodoo dolls and make slaves out of people from the  words of cave dwellers...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #3 - December 16, 2015, 02:41 PM

    How do you respond to that? I mean, I'm starting to think it's fruitless to engage in an objective discussion.


    A typical response is "Allah knows best. We hear and obey." And once you start mixing with ex-muslims and atheists they start to say, "Be careful, they will give you doubts. You will have doubts in emaan."

    "Objective" is not in their vocabulary. It's all Subjective for them.  You should bring them on the Jinn and Tonic Show to discuss these topics. It's a Google+ hangout.  It happens every Sunday. He/she can present their case on Islam in front of ex-muslims and atheists.. They won't "gang" up on him/her, they would ask them critical thinking questions.


    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #4 - December 16, 2015, 04:48 PM

    What I always thought was odd is when the companions would respond to the prophet by saying “Allah and his Messenger know best.” That statement seemed to reek of shirk to me, and I couldn’t see the difference between that and when someone pissed the prophet off by saying, “what Allah and you willed.”  Muhammad reportedly got upset and responded, “Have you made me a rival with Allah? Rather, say what Allah willed on his own.”

    So I asked a shaikh about it and got some convoluted answer around how willing the future was only Allah’s prerogative, but knowledge is something that Allah can impart to others, so as it relates to knowledge, Allah and his messenger would know best.  Roll Eyes
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #5 - December 16, 2015, 05:24 PM

    About "Allah and His Messenger know best"

    I had this explained to me in a class that it was permissible for the companions to say this, but after the Messenger died, it was not permissible anymore. I've heard a "different opinion" among scholars that it was not permissible to say, "Allah and his messenger know best" after the Qur'an was completely revealed...

    Because if we did, we would think the Prophet had certain knowledge that Allah did not have. So therefore the fatwa was explained to me that we can only say, "Allah knows best" nowadays.

    In reality, the whole time Muhammad was duping his companions by allowing them to put him in high status with Allah by saying "Allah and His Messenger know best." Muhammad purposely couples "Obey Allah and Obey the messenger" many times throughout the Qur'an because it's easier to manipulate them into thinking of the high status Muhammad had with Allah.

    Muhammad duped them when he put his infamous signature/seal on letters when he put "Allah" above "Rasul Muhammad." Just another tactic for people to be in awe and amazement for his "humility" when they saw that.

    Contrary to how many Muslims think that the Arabian Peninsula was filled with uneducated barbarians at the time that didn't know how to read or write, it's safe to assume that Muhammad was pretty manipulative and smart.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #6 - December 16, 2015, 05:52 PM

    A typical response is "Allah knows best. We hear and obey." And once you start mixing with ex-muslims and atheists they start to say, "Be careful, they will give you doubts. You will have doubts in emaan."

    "Objective" is not in their vocabulary. It's all Subjective for them.  You should bring them on the Jinn and Tonic Show to discuss these topics. It's a Google+ hangout.  It happens every Sunday. He/she can present their case on Islam in front of ex-muslims and atheists.. They won't "gang" up on him/her, they would ask them critical thinking questions.




    If you try to engage them with critical thinking, they say that only those who have faith will get it.
    You're going astray .. fitna .. bid'a .. tauba .. you're misguided.

    One of the weirdest things I heard during a discussion with my relative was "I will only discuss further if the premise is that you believe there's a God. I don't debate with atheists".

    The most common thing I hear (along with Allah knows best)  .. is "Why are you going so deep into it?" (Implying that there's something wrong with my head).

    EDIT:
    Btw, "Jinn and Tonic" haha, love it.

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #7 - December 17, 2015, 09:58 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFTuY0UPXM

    Btw, "Jinn and Tonic" haha, love it.

    They should call in.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #8 - December 17, 2015, 04:04 PM

    I think they were all cocky. They believed that they can dupe the human race forever who would follow them blindly.
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #9 - December 18, 2015, 02:57 PM

    About "Allah and His Messenger know best"

    I had this explained to me in a class that it was permissible for the companions to say this, but after the Messenger died, it was not permissible anymore. I've heard a "different opinion" among scholars that it was not permissible to say, "Allah and his messenger know best" after the Qur'an was completely revealed...

    Because if we did, we would think the Prophet had certain knowledge that Allah did not have. So therefore the fatwa was explained to me that we can only say, "Allah knows best" nowadays.

    In reality, the whole time Muhammad was duping his companions by allowing them to put him in high status with Allah by saying "Allah and His Messenger know best." Muhammad purposely couples "Obey Allah and Obey the messenger" many times throughout the Qur'an because it's easier to manipulate them into thinking of the high status Muhammad had with Allah.

    Muhammad duped them when he put his infamous signature/seal on letters when he put "Allah" above "Rasul Muhammad." Just another tactic for people to be in awe and amazement for his "humility" when they saw that.

    Contrary to how many Muslims think that the Arabian Peninsula was filled with uneducated barbarians at the time that didn't know how to read or write, it's safe to assume that Muhammad was pretty manipulative and smart.


    For all practical purposes, Muhammad IS Allah. The two are virtually indistinguishable. From a Muslim’s standpoint, how would you ever know if Muhammad ever told you to do something that Allah did not want you to do? You couldn’t. They are one and the same. It was kinda like Edward Norton and Brad Pitt in Fight Club.

    If you take the opinion that Muhammad was a real figure, which I do, then it is interesting to see how Muhammad merged himself with Allah. “Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah.” Verily, those who gave fealty to thee under the tree, they gave fealty to Allah. Allah’s hand was over their hands” “And obey Allah and his messenger” “And you did not throw (oh Muhammad) when you threw, but Allah threw” “They ask thee about the spoils of war, say ‘The spoils of war are for Allah and the Messenger.’” And there are countless ahadith where the companions would say “Allah and his messenger know best.”

    While Allah was completely silent, MIA, away on vacation, Muhammad was the only one able to speak on his behalf. He could have said whatever he wanted, and since Allah wasn’t speaking up, no one would have had a clue.


  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #10 - December 18, 2015, 04:00 PM

    Fight Club is a perfect example.

    I was accused of having "Multiple Personalities" by a Muslim before, but I promise I was following the Sunnah of Muhammad.. They just didn't understand that Muhammad would be really merciful at one point and then really angry at another point.. I was talking to Quod about this.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • "Allah knows best"
     Reply #11 - December 18, 2015, 10:49 PM

    Quod is knowing, wise. yes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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