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 Topic: Is islam compatible with modern human rights?

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  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #60 - January 19, 2016, 12:20 AM

    So you know MOST of the muslims in the west do you?

    Freemind please tell me why (since you've clearly had a bad experience in your country with muslims) you chose to work in a muslim school in uk?


    Most Muslims I met in Europe not only in the UK have the same mentality.
    They are very clever to steal the government money.
    I can tell you more examples and stories for Muslims in Netherlands, Germany, Italy and UK as well

    I didn't choose to work in a Muslim school, it was by chance.
    I didn't care before about religious matters. I didn't pay attention to religion before my travel to the UK.
    I as all Muslims had respected Imams and religious shaikhs and wanted to sacrifice money and myself for the sake of Islam,
    I found out that they are playing with our minds and emotions for their own benefits.
    The long beard, white jilbab is a cover to hide their worldly desires. They hold Quran all the times to deceive us.
    Open your eyes, go to mosques, listen to normal people and what they tell you about imams themselves.





  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #61 - January 19, 2016, 12:22 AM

    Take that to the scholars and see what they say.  Most I know would be abhorred by this. It's like the school was run by a cell of Taliban or Hizb ut Tahrir or something wtf.


    Let me tell you that two persons in that school were Imams at mosque.
    I understand what you want to say. They are minority and most Muslims won't accept their behavior.
    Do you really think Muslims won't accept that school?

  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #62 - January 19, 2016, 01:26 AM


    Of course there will be corruption within any institutions, including religious ones. Look at the catholic church for example and the institutionalised paedophilia which they still don't front up about.  To suggest some doctrinal or scriptural justification however for such abhorrent behaviours however is pure evil. And yes there is the eternal issue of Phoney money-hungry so called religious or spiritual leaders, they trick as many muslims as they do non muslims in fact, and even the muftis, sheikhs and imams here acknowledge their existence and the problem with such  a phenomenon.
    Nonetheless some of the most sincere, wise and benevolent people I've met are imams and priests... its unfair to slander all religious clergy.

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Re: Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #63 - January 19, 2016, 07:13 AM

    what is the agnostic/atheist version of 'there by the grace of god go I?

    Shit happens, but it's better when it happens to someone else. Afro

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #64 - January 19, 2016, 09:50 AM

    Of course there will be corruption within any institutions, including religious ones. Look at the catholic church for example and the institutionalised paedophilia which they still don't front up about.  To suggest some doctrinal or scriptural justification however for such abhorrent behaviours however is pure evil. And yes there is the eternal issue of Phoney money-hungry so called religious or spiritual leaders, they trick as many muslims as they do non muslims in fact, and even the muftis, sheikhs and imams here acknowledge their existence and the problem with such  a phenomenon.
    Nonetheless some of the most sincere, wise and benevolent people I've met are imams and priests... its unfair to slander all religious clergy.


    I repeat here again and again, I DON'T slander all religious clergy or insult Muslims and Islam.
    I again understand well your reply as I was like you and other Muslims.
    It is Your religion that you think I'm slandering or writing badly about it, it is your duty to reply.
    I had before the same feeling. I won't allow any one to talk badly about my religion.
    If you believe me, I had worked at that Islamic school at first two months as a volunteer for the sake of Allah.
    I sacrificed my efforts and salary as a charity to educate Muslim children and cling them with might and main to their religion in a Western community.
    I had praised the Muslim parents at that time because they were paying the fees from their own pocket - as I thought - and they didn't send their children to the FREE public schools.
    However, I was NAIVE as the headteacher called me later.

    I don't copy and paste topics to win a prize or collect LIKES.
    I'm writing about my own experience, what I witnessed myself with my own eyes.
    It was a very horrible experience which led to my inner conflict for three years, I was afraid to renounce Islam due to religious, work and family ties. I couldn't ignore that experience and continue my life as before.

    I don't compare the corruption of Muslims to Christians or Jews or other sects.
    I didn't say others are living in a UTOPIA. I'm writing about my own self and experience.
    I don't know what is your ethnic origin or if you are a Muslim by birth or conversion.
    I'm an Arab and of course the first community I must meet in the West is ARABS.
    Due to work at the Islamic circle in the UK, there is no difference who is committing the corruption.
    Indians, Pakistani, Bengali, Somali, Arabs have all the Same mentality and same feeling.
    The West is KAFFIR and will go to hell ------------ This is Rule number 1.
    WE Muslims are the best and whatever we do, we are going to heaven -------- Rule number 2.
    The West is plotting against us and lunched wars against Muslims due to envy ------ Rule number 3.
    It is Halal to take their money and women because they are KAFFIR --------------- Rule number 4.

    Pay one Pound, get one meter square in Paradise  dance dance dance


  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #65 - January 19, 2016, 11:05 AM

    The more i study Islam, the more i read the works of people who approach Islam from all angles, progressive, conservative, purist and all the other labels you can think of, the more i begin to realize that there is no 'true' Islam in the sense that there is no one coherent interpretation of Islam that can't be attacked in some form or another. All interpretations are selective to some extent because the scripture contradicts itself and once you get into the intrinsic theology behind it, you see how tedious and absurd it naturally becomes.

    Obviously, some interpretations are more selective than others. If someone wants to interpret Islam in a way that creates a liberal democracy for example, You will find they are very selective and heavily emphasize aspects of the Quran and Traditions of the prophet which support what they are trying to achieve.

    I define Islam and religion by the role it plays in peoples lives and the world we live in. It's wrapped up in peoples identity and interpreted  through their lenses for what works for them. From this perspective, yes, Islam is compatible with modern human rights. If some Muslim in today's world believes they can interpret Islam to support modern human rights and it works for them then so be it, that is his/her Islam and to ask if it is the 'true' Islam or not makes no sense as such a thing does not exist.

  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #66 - January 19, 2016, 11:11 AM

    The West is KAFFIR and will go to hell ------------ This is Rule number 1.
    WE Muslims are the best and whatever we do, we are going to heaven -------- Rule number 2.
    The West is plotting against us and lunched wars against Muslims due to envy ------ Rule number 3.
    It is Halal to take their money and women because they are KAFFIR --------------- Rule number 4.


    I cant refute your personal experience of course
    But idk why you think this is my our my communities mentality.

    Neither me nor my teachers condemn all westerners to hell
    Neither me nor my teachers believe we go to jannah by default just for being muslims
    Neither me nor my teachers think the west plots against us and launches wars due to envy
    and
    Neither me nor my teachers say its halal to take their money and women
    in fact i told one about such a situation and he reminded me it was haram to trick, lie or steal anything
    kaffir or no kaffir.
    I'm not even sure you can call every non muslim a kaffir anyway
    this itself is up for debate

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #67 - January 19, 2016, 11:19 AM

    The more i study Islam, the more i read the works of people who approach Islam from all angles, progressive, conservative, purist and all the other labels you can think of, the more i begin to realize that there is no 'true' Islam in the sense that there is no one coherent interpretation of Islam that can't be attacked in some form or another. All interpretations are selective to some extent because the scripture contradicts itself and once you get into the intrinsic theology behind it, you see how tedious and absurd it naturally becomes.

    Obviously, some interpretations are more selective than others. If someone wants to interpret Islam in a way that creates a liberal democracy for example, You will find they are very selective and heavily emphasize aspects of the Quran and Traditions of the prophet which support what they are trying to achieve.

    I define Islam and religion by the role it plays in peoples lives and the world we live in. It's wrapped up in peoples identity and interpreted  through their lenses for what works for them. From this perspective, yes, Islam is compatible with modern human rights. If some Muslim in today's world believes they can interpret Islam to support modern human rights and it works for them then so be it, that is his/her Islam and to ask if it is the 'true' Islam or not makes no sense as such a thing does not exist.


    Get on the public platform mate, well said
    this is true 100%, and if more muslims, particularly the puritanical literalists/ neo Kharijite muslims, understood that haq is subjective and can be obtained in many ways, we would be better off as an ummah, inshallah.

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #68 - January 19, 2016, 11:28 AM

    I cant refute your personal experience of course
    But idk why you think this is my our my communities mentality.

    Neither me nor my teachers condemn all westerners to hell
    Neither me nor my teachers believe we go to jannah by default just for being muslims
    Neither me nor my teachers think the west plots against us and launches wars due to envy
    and
    Neither me nor my teachers say its halal to take their money and women
    in fact i told one about such a situation and he reminded me it was haram to trick, lie or steal anything
    kaffir or no kaffir.
    I'm not even sure you can call every non muslim a kaffir anyway
    this itself is up for debate


    What is your ethnic origin?
    Are you Muslim by birth or conversion?
    Are you Sunni?
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #69 - January 19, 2016, 12:02 PM

    Get on the public platform mate, well said
    this is true 100%, and if more muslims, particularly the puritanical literalists/ neo Kharijite muslims, understood that haq is subjective and can be obtained in many ways, we would be better off as an ummah, inshallah.


    Thanks. So i see you are a Muslim. We don't see so many around here. What are your beliefs regarding Islam?
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #70 - January 19, 2016, 12:06 PM

    What is your ethnic origin?
    Are you Muslim by birth or conversion?
    Are you Sunni?


    Sunni of the Hanafi madhab,

    My ethnic origin is mixed,
    Mostly Italian/ French/ Maghrebi/North African
    Born in the west though
    I come from a communist/socialist/atheist family
    5th generation atheist on my dads side
    3rd on my mothers.
    My dads family were originally muslims, but no one practices
    my mums family were originally christian,
    So yeah i guess im a convert
    The scholars I follow are Lebanese and Turkish btw



    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #71 - January 19, 2016, 12:12 PM

    Thanks. So i see you are a Muslim. We don't see so many around here. What are your beliefs regarding Islam?


    Just in general or in regards to contemporary issues?

    Im a sunni, Hanafi. Right wing Westerners would call me an islamist,
    whilst salafis and militant literalist muslims would call me a kafir or 'a progressive'
    I've been reassured by muslim leaders this is actually a good sign.  dance

    Im not here to give Dawah or debate
    Im more here to investigate why muslims abandon Islam, share Ideas
    and gain new perspectives. Inshallah

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #72 - January 19, 2016, 12:19 PM

    Just in general or in regards to contemporary issues?

    Im a sunni, Hanafi. Right wing Westerners would call me an islamist,
    whilst salafis and militant literalist muslims would call me a kafir or 'a progressive'
    I've been reassured by muslim leaders this is actually a good sign.  dance

    Im not here to give Dawah or debate
    Im more here to investigate why muslims abandon Islam, share Ideas
    and gain new perspectives. Inshallah


    That's cool, I'm not looking to debate either.

    So do you support the implication of hudud punishments?
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #73 - January 19, 2016, 12:30 PM

    .........

    ....... sunni, Hanafi.......... Right wing Westerners...... would call me an islamist..........
    whilst salafis and militant literalist muslims would call me a kafir or 'a progressive'.........
    I've been reassured by muslim leaders this is actually a good sign.  dance

    Dance..Dance.,  good.... good...  Dancing is the way to get around  ElRafa.,

    Quote
    Im not here to give Dawah or debate
    Im more here to investigate why muslims abandon Islam, share Ideas
    and gain new perspectives.

    So you are here., and that is a good sign., So far what did you learn dear ElRafa ?

    Quote
    Inshallah

    Inshallah...   Yes... Inshallah

    Learning language is good....  So I learned to day... is it JazakAllah??  or JazakAllah Khair?? "JazakAllahu khairan katheeran"??

    So  jazaa' (جزاء) can either mean reward OR punishment........

    So  "JazakAllah" can may either mean "may Allah reward you" or "may Allah punish you", while


    hence "JazakAllah Khair"  to you too  enlightened  ElRafa  
     
     
    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #74 - January 19, 2016, 12:39 PM

    That's cool, I'm not looking to debate either.
    So do you support the implication of hudud punishments?


    Personally no I don't. for two reasons
    1) Such punishments are designed for 7th century arabia, and are not core tenets of Islam.
    I personally believe there is a difference between Islam and the time from which it arose.

    2) These punishments are designed to be meted out in a perfect Islamic state, no such state exists today, or in my opinion ever has for that matter. Even the prophet himself said the Islamic state would cease 30 years following his death.  

    Safeenah RA, reported that the Messenger of Allah SWT said, "The Khilaafah (caliphate) after me will last for thirty years; then there will be kingdom(s)."

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #75 - January 19, 2016, 12:46 PM

    Personally no I don't. for two reasons
    1) Such punishments are designed for 7th century arabia, and are not core tenets of Islam.   I personally believe there is a difference between Islam and the time from which it arose........


    Hmm.,  ...........not core tenets of Islam..........  ........not core tenets of Islam........  ........not core tenets of Islam..........

    So  in your view what are the Core tenets of Islam dear ElRafa?   and are they same to every religion of this earth??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #76 - January 19, 2016, 01:03 PM

    Dance..Dance.,  good.... good...  Dancing is the way to get around  ElRafa.,
    So you are here., and that is a good sign., So far what did you learn dear ElRafa ?
    Inshallah...   Yes... Inshallah

    Learning language is good....  So I learned to day... is it JazakAllah??  or JazakAllah Khair?? "JazakAllahu khairan katheeran"??

    So  jazaa' (جزاء) can either mean reward OR punishment........

    So  "JazakAllah" can may either mean "may Allah reward you" or "may Allah punish you", while


    hence "JazakAllah Khair"  to you too  enlightened  ElRafa  
     
     
    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Are you taking the piss Akhi?
    I cant figure it out  Roll Eyes
    I'm probably half all your ages so its all good anyway i'll cop it.

    Honestly I learned that people leave islam for a plethora of reasons
    some of you grew too intelligent for the Muslims around you to keep up.
    some of you left because you felt restricted or controlled by Islam
    Some left over fiqh issues such as slavery, women's rights
    Others found theological issues such as the existence of god and miracles to be problematic.
    and many... because all of the above^^

    I also learnt a very profound fact... That many didn't want or aren't happy about leaving Islam.
    This has been a somewhat shocking lesson for me actually. Like many of you have families and that, whose relations with you may have deteriorated or perhaps you have become estranged from them entirely. I honestly cant imagine the pain and anguish of such a situation.

    But I do have a question for you ex-muslims.. something that befuddles my ignorant, dogmatic theistic brain
    In the west, we don't really see ex-christian or ex-jew being coined as a popular phrase
    Its just 'atheist'
    Why make the point in calling yourselves 'ex muslims',
    Inshallah someone can answer me, Jazakallah khair


    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #77 - January 19, 2016, 01:06 PM

    Hmm.,  ...........not core tenets of Islam..........  ........not core tenets of Islam........  ........not core tenets of Islam..........

    So  in your view what are the Core tenets of Islam dear ElRafa?   and are they same to every religion of this earth??



    5 Pillars/6 principle beliefs.
    Tawhid
    Human Dignity
    Sanctity of Life
    Respect, compassion, justice, charity and a rejection of tyranny and oppression

    yes some overlap with other faiths dear yeezevee
    thus my belief in intellectual humility and interfaith mutual respect

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #78 - January 19, 2016, 01:24 PM

    let me cut your faith and all faiths and ALL FAITH HEADS TO A VERY very very small size dear ElRafa..

    but before I do that we need to go bit more detail on your words of wisdom

    5 Pillars/6 principle beliefs.


    Tawhid...

     let us start with  that word first "Tawhid".. Tawhid..

    god.. dog.. oneness...   what is it?    what is god in your neck of the world  ElRafa..,

     I HAVE NO GOD but i have a  dog... It is godly  ..

    let me watch these tubes...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmPtH4IDFNQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3mX0YRrjM
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #79 - January 19, 2016, 01:34 PM

    let me cut your faith and all faiths and ALL FAITH HEADS TO A VERY very very small size dear ElRafa..

    but before I do that we need to go bit more detail on your words of wisdom
    Quote from: ElRafa on Today at 01:06 PM

    5 Pillars/6 principle beliefs.


    Tawhid...

     let us start with  that word first "Tawhid".. Tawhid..

    god.. dog.. oneness...   what is it?    what is god in your neck of the world  ElRafa..,

     I HAVE NO GOD but i have a  dog... It is godly  ..

    let me watch these tubes...


    I have a dog
    her name is Lily
    shes a labrador
    I also love her
    Id show you a picture but idk how

    Oh and I've got tickets to see Sam too akhi. In the flesh.

    oh and You cannot cut down my faith so
    don't waste your time, lutfen
    go and patronise some other kid on another forum or do something better
    Jazakallah Khair

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #80 - January 19, 2016, 01:47 PM

    .............oh and You cannot cut down my faith so
    don't waste your time, lutfen..

    I cut down  ALL FAITHS    ElRafa., your faith is no exception to that rule., what I will not cutdown is faith of a person within himself/herself . That is up to the individuals.

    As far as wasting time is concerned.. don't worry ., I have plenty of time ., In fact i will have more in near future ., On top it I write posts not to individuals but to the readers.

    So God is dog and dog is god., It is life .. after all life  is same as in any life

    see these next to two words of your ost  

    ....Human Dignity
    Sanctity of Life....  

     

    Life and Sanctity of Life is important., Human dignity is not that important ., It is the frame of mind and time bound.,  Life as life in "life" is concerned., it(Human life)is no differnet than any animal life ElRafa .,

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #81 - January 19, 2016, 02:38 PM

    Personally no I don't. for two reasons
    1) Such punishments are designed for 7th century arabia, and are not core tenets of Islam.
    I personally believe there is a difference between Islam and the time from which it arose.

    2) These punishments are designed to be meted out in a perfect Islamic state, no such state exists today, or in my opinion ever has for that matter. Even the prophet himself said the Islamic state would cease 30 years following his death.  


    Perfect Islamic State? What counts as Islamic State or not varies. ISIS thinks it's the perfect Islamic state. Each Caliph probably thought they were the perfect Islamic State.

    Honestly? If hudud punishments are the symbols of perfect Islamic State, then why don't everyone do it to get closer to perfection? Without hudud punishment (which is part of criminal justice) no Islamic State is perfect. So which comes first?

    In a hypothetical perfect Islamic State, hudud punishments are just to you? Blood money, Inheritance sexism, etc. This is the symbol of a perfect society to you?

    There is just so much wrong with this. Like so wrong, it's impossible. But hey, Islam doesn't really hurt you in any way, you're not a woman.

    Did you read happymurtad's article about the lack of rights for women? Why is sexism so acceptable but racism isn't?

    You really think this isn't problematic?
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #82 - January 19, 2016, 07:14 PM

    Helaine writes something to  ElRafa  
    Perfect Islamic State? What counts as Islamic State or not varies. ISIS thinks it's the perfect Islamic state. Each Caliph probably thought they were the perfect Islamic State.

    Honestly? If hudud punishments are the symbols of perfect Islamic State, then why don't everyone do it to get closer to perfection? Without hudud punishment (which is part of criminal justice) no Islamic State is perfect. So which comes first?

    In a hypothetical perfect Islamic State, hudud punishments are just to you? Blood money, Inheritance sexism, etc. This is the symbol of a perfect society to you?

    There is just so much wrong with this. Like so wrong, it's impossible. But hey, Islam doesn't really hurt you in any way, you're not a woman.
    Did you read happymurtad's article about the lack of rights for women? Why is sexism so acceptable but racism isn't?

    You really think this isn't problematic?

    Helaine let us read that ElRafa post for which I responded and he appears to be upset..

    Personally no I don't. for two reasons
    1) Such punishments are designed for 7th century arabia, and are not core tenets of Islam.
    I personally believe there is a difference between Islam and the time from which it arose.

    Quote
    2) These punishments are designed to be meted out in a perfect Islamic state, no such state exists today, or in my opinion ever has for that matter. Even the prophet himself said the Islamic state would cease 30 years following his death.  

    Safeenah RA, reported that the Messenger of Allah SWT said, "The Khilaafah (caliphate) after me will last for thirty years; then there will be kingdom(s)."

     


    you see that.,    he picked up some thing that is written in some 10th century .." A story from Safeenah RA" ( I bet ElRafa  doesn't know who  "Safeenah" was...)  and then he is faithful for such stories .. he believes in them... And then he thinks similar stuff happened in 7th century Islam DURING THAT ALLEGED Prophet's time.... Then he starts preaching to others same silly story.  And he considers in 21st century we don't have real Islamic state.  I hope he is NOT thinking to make one real Islamic state..

    That is a serious problem with faith heads.. And it becomes worse with "faith heads with Circular reasoning" .. "The Book Says So/ he said so" reasoning..

    And I am very glad to know this from ElRafa he gets tickets to see Sam Harris..

    Oh and I've got tickets to see Sam too akhi. In the flesh.

    go and patronise some other kid on another forum or do something better
    Jazakallah Khair


    but Helaine., ElRafa  is asking  me  a question here., And I want to know the answer from you and other friends..  

    Are you taking the piss Akhi?
    I cant figure it out  Roll Eyes
    I'm probably half all your ages so its all good anyway i'll cop it.
    ....................................

    But I do have a question for you ex-muslims.. something that befuddles my ignorant, dogmatic theistic brain   ...In the west, we don't really see ex-christian or ex-jew being coined as a popular phrase
    Its just 'atheist'

    Why make the point in calling yourselves 'ex muslims'??,

    dear Helaine please answer that question

    anyways thanks to Hassan and M85  I got to watch one of the best videos of faith heads .. let me watch again..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBbwIzIpSLk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

    And I am glad to read your posts

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #83 - January 19, 2016, 07:30 PM

    But I do have a question for you ex-muslims.. something that befuddles my ignorant, dogmatic theistic brain
    In the west, we don't really see ex-christian or ex-jew being coined as a popular phrase
    Its just 'atheist'
    Why make the point in calling yourselves 'ex muslims',
    Inshallah someone can answer me, Jazakallah khair


    A lot of this has to do with the fact that Islam just will not let us be, in many cases. For one thing I have not heard of any other religion which still executes it's adherents/former adherents for leaving their faith, and for another many Muslims are still in denial that ex-Muslims exist and view us as paid agents of some sort.

    If the stigma behind leaving Islam and the violence towards ex-Muslims and blasphemers went away, I think that people who leave Islam would stop identifying as ex-Muslims because it would no longer be such a big deal.
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #84 - January 19, 2016, 08:08 PM

    Quote
    A lot of this has to do with the fact that Islam just will not let us be, in many cases. For one thing I have not heard of any other religion which still executes it's adherents/former adherents for leaving their faith, and for another many Muslims are still in denial that ex-Muslims exist and view us as paid agents of some sort.

    If the stigma behind leaving Islam and the violence towards ex-Muslims and blasphemers went away, I think that people who leave Islam would stop identifying as ex-Muslims because it would no longer be such a big deal.


    Couldn't agree more. Before leaving Islam, I could only identify ONE religion that a had a death sentence for abandoning it. It was the same religion that proclaimed to be the religion of peace. Why be so hypocritical? The followers of Islam don't even have the decency to admit their religion is violent. The bullshit doesn't stop there. They continue to market Islam as a religion of peace so much that it has become a slogan for it.

    Apostates are considered the number 1 enemy in Islam. Far worse than infidels. They are seen a subhumans.  One guy refused to shake my hand or even look me in the eye.
    The logic of "treat people how you want to be treated" doesn't work in Islam.  They seek to have it their way all the time.  Treat people like shit while expecting others to respect your intolerance and hate.  If you attempt to address these issues, they cry  Islamophobia.

    Islam is a religion of peace..the kind of peace you find six feet under if you try to leave
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #85 - January 19, 2016, 08:38 PM

    Shit happens, but it's better when it happens to someone else. Afro


    nice one!!
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #86 - January 19, 2016, 09:02 PM

    Most Muslims I met in Europe not only in the UK have the same mentality.
    They are very clever to steal the government money.
    I can tell you more examples and stories for Muslims in Netherlands, Germany, Italy and UK as well

    I didn't choose to work in a Muslim school, it was by chance.
    I didn't care before about religious matters. I didn't pay attention to religion before my travel to the UK.
    I as all Muslims had respected Imams and religious shaikhs and wanted to sacrifice money and myself for the sake of Islam,
    I found out that they are playing with our minds and emotions for their own benefits.
    The long beard, white jilbab is a cover to hide their worldly desires. They hold Quran all the times to deceive us.
    Open your eyes, go to mosques, listen to normal people and what they tell you about imams themselves.








    freemind all I can say is that not all muslims are like that. I have a feeling you're not going to believe me. we all speak from our own experiences. the muslims I mix with don't look down on other people . they know i'm not a believer and they still accept me. I still get asked to all the gatherings. And none of them are on any kind of benefit scam thing you mention. so there are some good muslims out there. the majority are professional working respectable people.

    I love your strapline/signature. it reminded me of Abraham hicks book ask and it is given.......maybe you need to change your thinking abit eh? hope you meet some good people in London next time your over.
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #87 - January 19, 2016, 09:04 PM

    that is it ? let me count..

    1). AGirlWithDoubts
    2).  Speedbird
     
    only two ?? Just Two birds??   finmad  I want more  ..  finmad finmad  ..  

    ElRafa   Question again

    Quote
    .In the west, we don't really see ex-christian or ex-jew being coined as a popular phrase  Its just 'atheist'

    Why make the point in calling yourselves 'ex muslims'??,


    that is it??   only two guys???   Let me repose the question of   ElRafa the way I say..
    Quote
    What is the fucking deal you FUCKING EX-MUSLIMS?  why don't you shut up and  call yourself as atheists and go away  you morons?

    open fucking forums write shit on Allah forums?  I ask you why?
     

    Now let me see the answers.,  Actually ElRafa  should know the answers.. He is quite active in Ummah.com

    So I wonder about Mustafa-Mahmud ..  Imagine some one discovers Mustafa-Mahmud is NOT a Muslim but a CIA., KGB, MIA...etc. juice..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #88 - January 19, 2016, 09:16 PM


    5 Pillars/6 principle beliefs.
    Tawhid
    Human Dignity
    Sanctity of Life
    Respect, compassion, justice, charity and a rejection of tyranny and oppression

    yes some overlap with other faiths dear yeezevee
    thus my belief in intellectual humility and interfaith mutual respect



    1.What Quranic evidence do you have to support the "5 pillars" of Islam or is it just another made up concept which isn't mentioned in the book Muslims claim to follow?
    2. What value does "tawhid" have when the Islamic testimony(shahada) contains not just the almighty Allah but also a dead man called Muhammad?
    Why can't you mention Allah alone? Islam claims to be superior to Christianity and non-Abrahamic religions such as Hinduism because of the "oneness of Allah", so why can't you mention Allah alone to enter this religion which believes in the so called "oneness of Allah"?

    Islam's belittlement of religions such as Christianity and Hinduism is hypocritical, accusing them for the shirk they commit, while in the same time committing shirk themselves. Accuse Hindus of idol worship for bowing and prostrating to a statue while doing the same to a stone cube Muslims built with their own hands. Accuse Christians for the idol worship of Jesus while praising dead people such as Muhammad, his household and Abraham in their durood which is parroted at least 5 times a day in their prayer ritual. The "oneness of Allah" goes out the window in the so called prayer to Allah. Allah alone is not mentioned.

    3. What exactly is the definition of human dignity in Islam? Stoning adulterers to death, killing apostates and homosexuals, wife beating and amputating limbs for stealing are all part of Islamic law.  The claim that Islam can be interpreted differently is laughable. You cannot claim to value human dignity without turning a blind eye to Islamic law.  

    4. Islam couldn't care less about human life.  You are sentenced to death for simply leaving the religion of peace.

    5. The logic of "treat people how you want to be treated" doesn't work in Islam.  You are allowed to beat you wife if she "disobeys" you but what happens when the husband disobeys? Nothing.  Why should you be punished for disobeying your slave? It's impossible because you cannot disobey a slave.  

    Tyranny and oppression? Infidels are required to pay jizya tax in an state ruled by Islamic sharia law.  Where was the compassion when Muhammad married a 6 year old child and slept with her when she was 9?  What right did the messenger of Allah have to steal the childhood of someone?

    Islam is a religion of peace..the kind of peace you find six feet under if you try to leave
  • Is islam compatible with modern human rights?
     Reply #89 - January 19, 2016, 09:18 PM

    that is it ? let me count..

    1). AGirlWithDoubts
    2).  Speedbird
     
    only two ?? Just Two birds??   finmad  I want more  ..  finmad finmad  ..  

    ElRafa   Question again

    that is it??   only two guys???   Let me repose the question of   ElRafa the way I say..Now let me see the answers.,  Actually ElRafa  should know the answers.. He is quite active in Ummah.com

    So I wonder about Mustafa-Mahmud ..  Imagine some one discovers Mustafa-Mahmud is NOT a Muslim but a CIA., KGB, MIA...etc. juice..


    I got permanently banned in Ummah forum while I was a Muslim. What was the crime? I asked too many questions.

    Islam is a religion of peace..the kind of peace you find six feet under if you try to leave
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