Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Gaza assault
November 21, 2024, 07:56 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: The forbidden food

 (Read 5728 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The forbidden food
     OP - February 26, 2016, 03:10 PM

    I was at a breakfast restaurant today with non muslim friends who do not know I was ever a muslim, I decided to grab waffles and the lady asked me if I wanted bacon, sausage, or ham with my waffles. Now as an ex muslim I could eat what ever I want so without thinking I said "Bacon". It was the weirdest feeling, In my entire life I never thought I would ever order bacon, the word felt like a foreign language.

    The food arrives and as I am eating I avoid the bacon. "Why is it Pink" I thought? It did not look appetizing and all of a sudden I felt repulsed by it, was it years of indoctrination still lingering or was I actually repulsed by this greasy pink piece of meat?

    I decided as an ex muslim I no longer need to be repulsed by something I have never tried. I took a bite but refused to breath through my nose afraid if it did not smell appetizing I might throw up! After a few bites I take a whiff and tasted the meat.

    It was AWESOME, it smelt just like any other piece of meat, did not smell like chicken or beef but just smelt like... well... meat. It had a slightly salty taste that was not over powering and felt natural  piggy. I could not believe muslims hate such a delectable crispy food when they have never tried it and rely on a one thousand four hundred year old book! How could a loving god deprive people of something so tasty, why bother making it because anyone who tries it will definitely want more. Huh?

    What was your experience when you first tried pork or non halal meat in general?

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #1 - February 26, 2016, 03:23 PM

    Bacon is great as is pretty much most non-halal meat available.

    Bacon, pulled pork, ribs are all amazing.

    As for first experience I remember being very nervous- I took a bite (it was a sausage) and i remember thinking "this is amazing!"

    No need to feel guilty
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #2 - February 26, 2016, 03:34 PM

    My first experience was when I was in New Orleans with my family and ordered a jambalaya, not knowing it has ham. The dish came out and I had to pretend that I cared and took out all the small bits of ham, but deep down I was resentful that I couldn't just enjoy that fucking delicious dish. finmad
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #3 - February 26, 2016, 04:02 PM

    Absurdist, yeah its going to suck now when I'm with family, no bacon around them finmad  far away hug

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #4 - February 26, 2016, 04:19 PM

    Afghan hassan: maybe it's a good thing you can't enjoy it all the time as the stuff is terrible for your health! ;p

    Enjoy in moderate doses though for sure.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #5 - February 26, 2016, 04:47 PM

    Pork meat was proscribed for Jews originally  because the pig is a scavenger and was used for waste disposal.   Muslims continued this ban.

    I believe some Modern Reform Jews, feel that if they eat pigs who are raised on farms, with 'kosher' feed, that pork is kosher.

    P.S.  I hope I haven't put anyone off pork... all pork available in the west is farm raised for food.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #6 - February 26, 2016, 05:06 PM

    Thanks for the info. I've heard a lot of conflicting stories about the Semitic ban on swine.

    (No neck to slaughter it legally?!?! LOL)
    (It cant sweat?!)
    (Scavenger)
    (Diseased)
    Etc etc

    But never found concrete evidence for any of the reasons mentioned.


    Pork meat was proscribed for Jews originally  because the pig is a scavenger and was used for waste disposal.   Muslims continued this ban.

    I believe some Modern Reform Jews, feel that if they eat pigs who are raised on farms, with 'kosher' feed, that pork is kosher.

    P.S.  I hope I haven't put anyone off pork... all pork available in the west is farm raised for food.

  • The forbidden food
     Reply #7 - February 26, 2016, 05:15 PM

    Well, apparently that's not  the whole story, according to this Wiki entry

    Quote
    Cloven hooves in culture[edit]
    Unclean animals in religion[edit]
    The distinction between cloven and uncloven hooves is highly relevant for dietary laws of Judaism (Kashrut), as set forth in the Torah[8] and the Talmud.[9][10] Animals that both chew their cud (ruminate) and have cloven hooves are allowed (kosher), whereas those that have only one of these two characteristics are considered unclean animals and Jews are forbidden to eat them. This rule excludes from the diet the camel because it walks on toes (camel hooves are nails coming out of toes), and the pig because it has cloven hooves but does not ruminate.[11][12]


    So if that is correct, camel meat is forbidden in Deut,  but not in the Quran ?
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #8 - February 26, 2016, 06:10 PM

    Camel meat is widely consumed in the Arab Muslim world. It's very tasty too.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #9 - February 26, 2016, 06:16 PM

    Christopher Hitchens had a theory that it was banned because it tastes like human meat, so the ban was originally to discourage cannibalism.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #10 - February 26, 2016, 06:21 PM

    Camel meat is widely consumed in the Arab Muslim world. It's very tasty too.


    Yes. I've heard that, but I never knew it wasn't kosher for Jews.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #11 - February 26, 2016, 06:22 PM

    Christopher Hitchens had a theory that it was banned because it tastes like human meat, so the ban was originally to discourage cannibalism.


    Ugh. how would any one know that unless ,,,,?
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #12 - February 26, 2016, 06:27 PM

    Well, apparently human meat used to be referred to as "long pig", from which Hitchens inferred that it tasted similar to pork.   piggy

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #13 - February 26, 2016, 06:42 PM

    Yes, I thought that was what the cannibal pygmies of Papua New Guinea called it  ....   didn't think that Moses or Mohammed had any links to those tribes  Smiley
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #14 - February 26, 2016, 06:43 PM

    For real. Most cannibal reports say it tastes like a "better pork".
    Though I think the link Hitchens made is speculative at best..

    Well, apparently human meat used to be referred to as "long pig", from which Hitchens inferred that it tasted similar to pork.   piggy

  • The forbidden food
     Reply #15 - February 26, 2016, 06:48 PM

    Yes, totally speculative.  It also doesn't explain the ban on shellfish, surely those don't taste like people?   wacko

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #16 - February 26, 2016, 06:56 PM

    According to this jewish website this is why : piggy
    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2376474/jewish/Pigs-Judaism.htm


    Quote
    So, what did it do wrong?

    Why indeed does Judaism so abhor the pig?

    ● It carries diseases: “Ten measures of plagues descended to the world; pigs took nine of them.”8 Such diseases are also easily transmittable from pigs to humans,9 as indeed is still the case with flu and other viruses.

    ● It spreads filth: Maimonides10 notes that pigs wallow in the muck and eat revolting things. Were Jews allowed to eat pork, they would raise pigs and thereby introduce filth into their homes.

    ● It is a symbol of hypocrisy: It pretends to be a kosher animal. The Midrash11 draws a comparison between the Roman empire and the pig:12 Just as the pig sticks out its hooves when it is resting, as if to say “I am kosher,” so did the Romans put on a show of justice to mask their avarice and corruption.

  • The forbidden food
     Reply #17 - February 26, 2016, 07:36 PM

    I love the third reason.   Cheesy

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #18 - February 26, 2016, 07:44 PM

    Yep, that's a good one,   I imagine that when Moses first brought down these laws....  the comparison was to the egyptians !  or whatever powers that might be  Smiley
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #19 - February 26, 2016, 08:03 PM

    Yes good point.  Moses led the Jews out of Egypt where they'd been enslaved, so it would make sense if part of Mosaic law was simply motivated by differentiating themselves from their oppressors.  Maybe the Egyptians just really loved pork.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #20 - February 26, 2016, 08:33 PM

    Who doesn't really love pork? It's great!
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #21 - February 26, 2016, 11:13 PM

    I know it is not great for you, I am huge on nutrition, it is not a staple for our diet... that would be a one way ticket to the hospital because of extreme atherosclerosis (thickening of blood vessel walls from a large build up of plaque)

    But still, who doesnt like some bacon with eggs  yes

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #22 - June 08, 2016, 07:48 PM

    I'm somehow still cautious when it comes to eat pork. I tasted bacon on a burger, but it didn't taste me. Maybe it's better for breakfast with eggs?

    I don't have a problem with drinking alcohol, but when it comes to pork. I don't know. I can eat sausages, but not pure pork steak.

    Beef is still the king  cool2
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #23 - June 08, 2016, 08:00 PM

    Quote
    According to this jewish website this is why : piggy
    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2376474/jewish/Pigs-Judaism.htm

    Quote
    ●... It is a symbol of hypocrisy: It pretends to be a kosher animal.  The Midrash11 draws a comparison between the Roman empire and the pig  
    Quote
     Just as the pig sticks out its hooves when it is resting, as if to say “I am kosher,” so did the Romans put on a show of justice to mask their avarice and corruption



    Yes good point.  Moses led the Jews out of Egypt where they'd been enslaved, so it would make sense if part of Mosaic law was simply motivated by differentiating themselves from their oppressors. Maybe the Egyptians just really loved pork.


    that Chabad.org link says
    Quote
    ..........Interestingly, one Roman legion (X Fretensis) used the boar as one of its ensigns. Additionally, one of the prominent Roman families was that of the Porcii (“pigs”), whose male and female members bore the respective names of Porcius and Porcia..............

    That is damn good explanation why Quran says Pork meat is forbidden... ..  now do we have any proof that Egyptians loved pork or pork meat??    whole Quran is filled  with copy/pasted/plagiarized statements from other faith and Islam is nothing but plagiarized statements from other faith and an  unknown unquestionable cartoon character named as  "Muhammad"..

    now do we have any proof that Egyptians or Romans of that time loved pigs or pork meat?? or is it just as parable statements from OT where rulers of that time (Roman as well as Egyptian) were considered as filthy pigs ??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #24 - June 08, 2016, 10:00 PM

    Here is a link to a blog that pretty much covers this question in Egypt, Rome etc in antiquity:-
    https://blog.longreads.com/2015/10/14/i-would-rather-be-herods-pig-the-history-of-a-taboo/

    Quote
    Mark Essig | Lesser Beasts: A Snout-to-Tail History of the Humble Pig | Basic Books | May 2015 | 20 minutes (5,293 words)
     


    Some excerpts  -
    Quote
    The builders of the Great Pyramid called upon the resources of the entire Nile Valley to support this effort. The royal house sent orders to the heads of villages, who in turn sent men to the Giza site, along with grain and livestock to feed them. Workers drank beer, a muddy beverage fermented from grain and consumed more for nutrition than for pleasure. They ate heavy loaves of wheat and barley, supplemented with beef, mutton, and goat. One archaeologist analyzed some 300,000 bones at the pyramid complex and found that nearly all the animals eaten were young and male. This proved that Giza was a provisioned site, with animals raised elsewhere and the juvenile males—not needed for breeding—marched to slaughter at the pyramids.

    One village that provided livestock was Kom el-Hisn, located in the Nile delta about seventy-five miles downriver from the temple complex. Villagers at Kom el-Hisn raised cattle but ate very little beef: only the bones of worn-out breeding cows and sick calves have been uncovered there. Instead, the villagers ate pork: for every four cattle bones archaeologists unearthed at Kom el-Hisn, they found one hundred pig bones. It seems that the residents kept herds of pigs that foraged in the Nile delta marshes and scavenged trash on streets. Although Egypt’s rulers demanded cattle from Kom el-Hisn, along with goats and sheep from other settlements, the villagers’ pigs were spared.
    The reasons for this had to do with climate and biology. Animals destined for Giza had to walk hundreds of miles through an arid landscape, feeding on grass and leaves along the way. Well suited for such a journey, cows, goats, and sheep were herded to Giza by the thousands. Pigs, however, would not have found the food or shade they needed along the way. The state couldn’t move pigs around, so it ignored them.

    This pattern appeared throughout the Near East: officials developed complex food-provisioning systems that depended on the long-distance movement of cows, sheep, and goats. Pigs didn’t fit into such schemes. But despite—or perhaps because of—their lack of usefulness to bureaucrats, pigs didn’t disappear. Instead, they stuck to their original role as scavengers. People on the fringes of society with little or no access to state-supplied food embraced them as a source of meat. Priests and bureaucrats, who dined on lamb and beef, came to despise pigs. Only the poor ate pork.

    ....
    Quote
    The rise of strong states discouraged pig raising in another way as well: by changing the landscape. As populations grew, they put increased pressure on the land. Farmers felled oaks to make way for olive groves and drained marshes to plant crops. The land, often poorly managed, deteriorated from forest to cropland to pastureland to desert, with each successive stage providing less habitat for pigs. By the time desert scrub prevailed, only sheep and goats could survive. As pigs lost habitat, they likely began to raid crops in the field, threatening the food supply and thereby earning a spot on the state’s hit list.

    Pigs didn’t fit into the new political and agricultural order. As time marched on, they began to disappear. At many archaeological sites, pig bones remain common up through about 2000 bc, then dwindle away. A thousand years later, few people raised pigs in any quantity.

    In a few spots, however, pigs persisted. They remained important for sites like Tell Halif that were on the margins of empire, far from the urban centers. And pigs became crucial to the marginal people living within those urban centers. Careful sifting of debris from streets has turned up shed milk teeth—baby teeth—of piglets, evidence that pigs were living and breeding among the homes of the world’s first great cities. But not everyone in those cities partook in equal measures. Archaeologists tend to find pig bones in the areas of cities where the common people lived. In elite areas, they find more cattle and sheep bones.

    ...
    Quote
    Pork eating hadn’t carried much significance as a marker of Jewish identity before the Greek conquest of Persia because most others in the region didn’t eat pork either. Since the Israelites’ return from exile in Egypt, abstaining from pork simply had been one way that they remained pure in order to preserve their relationship with God. Now, however, it also became a way that they drew boundaries between themselves and those they lived among. Indeed, when pork-eating Greeks ruled over the Jews, refusing pork became a key element of what it meant to be Jewish. You are what you eat, the saying goes, but the Jews were what they didn’t eat.

    The Jews rebelled against Antiochus and in 142 bc won control of Palestine and reconsecrated the Temple, an event commemorated in the celebration of Chanukah. Their independence lasted less than a century: in 63 bc the Romans conquered Jerusalem, and the Jews once more fell under the rule of pork eaters. Unlike the Greeks, the Romans responded to Jewish pork avoidance not with violence but with puzzlement and feeble jokes. Juvenal, the Roman satirist of the first century ad, noted that in Palestine “a long-established clemency suffers pigs to attain old age” because Jews “do not differentiate between human and pigs’ flesh.” It was said that Caesar Augustus, after hearing that King Herod of Judea had executed one of his own children, joked that he would “rather be Herod’s pig than Herod’s son.”

    There was a reason Jewish dining habits attracted attention: Romans loved pork with a passion matched by few people before or since. They developed the most sophisticated farming and breeding techniques that the world had ever seen and created elaborate—occasionally obscene—recipes to prepare pork for their lavish feasts. Such ostentatious pork consumption would only reinforce the divisions between Jews and Romans, and it would eventually establish pork as the meat of choice in the religion the Romans would help disseminate throughout Europe: Christianity.


    Its an interesting read. piggy
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #25 - June 09, 2016, 01:04 AM

    .......
    Some excerpts  -.......
    Its an interesting read. piggy


    It is indeed!
    piggy
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #26 - June 09, 2016, 05:34 PM

    So the prohibition on pork is discriminatory against poor people?

    Doesn't Allah know anything?  Muslims in the Arctic Circle starving to death because the sun never sets in summer Ramadans?

    Pork is the food of the poor (and Romans!) and is not a religious matter but one of equality and justice?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The forbidden food
     Reply #27 - June 09, 2016, 06:28 PM

    Not to mention the discrimination against those following the old Norse religion.

    They have three sacred pigs, all with important functions.



    Apart from that, calling the food of others "unclean" and showing disgust for it, is generally a bad behavior.
    If you do not like, do not eat it. But do behave like a grown up!
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »