A "5050" Problem.,It is a GeneralProblem

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- yeezevee
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A "5050" Problem.,It is a GeneralProblem
OP - May 10, 2016, 04:04 PM

So A new member of the forum "5050" who joined onMay 08, 2016, 10:06 PM sent me couple of PMs

Quote
1).Just curious. "if religious beliefs are devoid of rational reasoning what then should be consulted to determine what's wrong or right"?

2). I tried to post it in forum but was unable to...your posts caught my attention.

I am not sure why he/she could not post in to the forum but the question "5050" asks is extremely important and fundamental to all of us so-called human beings. Off-course It is NOT fundamental to faith heads and baboons but many questions will pop up in the minds of non-religious well educated folks when we are discussing such subject.

This has been done umpteen times on internet and in books, the classic video of it is the debate between Sam Harris and William LAME Craig. Dawkins and watching that The Four Horseman - Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennet, Harris discussion is useful to this question .. So to start with let me put some links here so CEMB new remember 5050 and others could add more information in to the discussion..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7IHU28aR2E

Moral Compass versus Bible & Quran - Richard Dawkins gives the answer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLYG5VABrqg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaYjV4sWpoc

Sam Harris: The Link Between Religion And Morality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aARStlRf01w

Science Can Answer Moral Questions-TED Talks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

Morality without religion Frans de Waal - TED lecture..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-74R9C6Bc

The Moral Landscape__How Science Can Determine_Human Values... free book

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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What would you rather have us called?
Reply #1 - May 10, 2016, 04:19 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on May 10, 2016, 04:04 PM
... all of us so-called human beings.

What would you rather have us called?
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A "5050" Problem.,It is a GeneralProblem
Reply #2 - May 10, 2016, 05:21 PM

We try our hardest as human beings, using our minds, and not be too, too hard on ourselves at the result.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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A "5050" Problem.,It is a GeneralProblem
Reply #3 - May 10, 2016, 06:08 PM

1. if religious beliefs are devoid of rational reasoning what then should be consulted to determine what's wrong or right"?

Figuring it out for ourselves as we have been for centuries. Many religions once promoted slavery, which was acceptable thus not immoral. Now people make all sort of excuses for religions supporting slavery in the past. In the present many religions do not support slavery. Thus religion never taught us right or wrong regarding slavery, we figured it out for ourselves. One simple line of "Do not practice, own or allow slavery" However this never happened.
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Reply #4 - May 10, 2016, 06:32 PM

Quote from: Wahhabist on May 10, 2016, 04:19 PM
What would you rather have us called?

I have no hidden meaning/agenda in my words wahhabist., well may be smalla mount is there.. well " Creatures" is a good word

anyway let me think about these claims..

Atheism: Contradictory at Best, Hideous at Worst

If Apes Could Talk to Atheists....

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Wahhabist
- Fat, fool & phonetician
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
A "5050" Problem.,It is a GeneralProblem
Reply #5 - May 10, 2016, 06:40 PM

You referred to us as "so-called" human beings, so I wondered what you would rather call us instead of human beings.

Anyway, to yeezevee a bit to you back (perhaps a little bit more productively this time), here's a short video explaining what "rational reasoning" might be and why, when rationalism is juxtaposed against empiricism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1g8wjsEQyw
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Reply #6 - May 10, 2016, 10:07 PM

Quote from: Wahhabist on May 10, 2016, 06:40 PM
....... rationalism ......... empiricism....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1g8wjsEQyw

that is a good one on definition of those terms., but in your view which one is better? and can we have another one that has open end but closed to all the existing silly religions and religious gibberish in their respective books Wahhabist ?

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Wahhabist
- Fat, fool & phonetician
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
A "5050" Problem.,It is a GeneralProblem
Reply #7 - May 11, 2016, 01:44 AM

I personally can simplistically sum up my recent approach to knowledge, post Islam to be precise, as leaning towards empiricism (and materialism is not always entailed here because of the merits of observation in such an approach) but I don't think in such general, grand terms most or all the time.

For example, I do not think that there's such a thing as "the soul" but at the same time, I view the mind or consciousness as rising from the brain in an interdependence of this apparent duality in a state of midway. Simply put, I just do not know enough to decide.

Thus, I remain agnostic about the idea of a god or gods but, for practical reasons, I lead an atheistic life because the concept of God or gods for me at worst is unknowable and at best is unknown until further notice and or incontrovertible evidence which I am yet to be presented with.

But that is not to say that it is irrational to believe in a supernational being or beings that created our universe.

I agree with the conclusions of the excellent Prof. Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion but not his method as other non-believing philosophers, such as Stephen Law, would point to, and subsequently get dismissed by Dawkins because he does not take philosophy seriously enough as he sees science to having taken over philosophy in the same way alchemy gave way to chemistry and astrology to astronomy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3fGJq04rUc

As such, I follow Nabokov in putting the term 'reality' permanently in inverted commas as it does not mean anything to me otherwise, because of solipsistic reasons (read, if you will, his wonderful Transparent Things). However, most of the time, I do not think that anything experientially exists beyond my immediate sensory 'reality' even though rationality detests this fairly easily.

So, it's not a question of which one is better, as you seem to be trying to frame these epistemological matters. I do not have answers. Maybe, once you, again to pull a yeezevee, watched the position of Dr Arif Ahmed in the debate below, that you'd come closer to my ongoing position and maybe not.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGtSjqnzZHo
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