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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi!

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  • Hi!
     Reply #30 - May 27, 2016, 03:21 PM

    Autumn Butterfly, I suggest you ignore all of the inane bullshit that has been spewed on this thread, especially all of that crap about men being smarter, and more men leaving religion because of logic, spatial awareness, and all of the other crap that they like to attribute to themselves.

    More men leave religion not because they are more capable of thinking their way out of it, but because they are not as controlled as women.   Roll Eyes

    Afghan Hassan, you are taking the data (and ignoring plenty of evidence to the contrary) and twisting it to suit your own bias.  Even worse, your way of dealing with criticism of how much wrong exists in your posts, is you trying to shut down further discussion by whining about 'Butt hurt', and 'feminists'.

    It is not that men are more intelligent, but that men consistently rate themselves as more intelligent than women.  

    There is a huge gender bias in self estimates of intelligence, and the earliest study to explore this gender bias was undertaken by Hogan (1978), who through 11 consecutive studies between the periods of 1973-1976, with a total of 2002 participants, used a self-report survey to ask participants to estimate their own IQ’s based on the bell curve description of general intelligence. For 5 of the studies undertaken, estimates for parental IQ were also gathered.  His results found that statistical significance at the p < .05 level was present for 5 of these studies.

    This finding for males to overestimate their IQ, and for women to underestimate theirs, appears consistently throughout much of the replicated research currently available (Bennett, 1996; Hamid & Lok, 1995).  Furthermore, this gender bias in  intelligence self-estimates does not stop at the personal level, with findings that both genders will rate brothers as more intelligent than sisters (Furnham, Fong, & Martin, 1999), son’s as more intelligent than daughters (Furnham & Gasson, 1998), and fathers as more intelligent than mothers (Hogan, 1978).  These findings appear consistently and furthermore, cross culturally (Stumm et al., 2009), and negative self-estimates were also found to have real life consequences, correlating with lowered performance where they were present (Beyer, 1998; 1999; 2000).

    Even where an IQ test was conducted first, and then men were asked to assess their own IQ BEFORE knowing their actual score, men rated themselves as 3-4 points higher, than they actually were.  (Reilly & Mulhern, 1995; Furnham & Gasson, 1998)
      
    But hey man, I wouldn't want the facts to interfere with your gender influenced belief on the intelligence of your 'people'.

    Social justice warrior?  Grin  who would have thought that seeking justice was now some sort of insult.  

    Given that you are already biased towards a disposition to see yourself as more intelligent than women, I hardly think you are best placed to assess the truth of such a claim.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Hi!
     Reply #31 - May 27, 2016, 03:49 PM

    AutumnB I second what Berberella said so well,

    AfghanH, think of it in this way, you were intelligent enough to leave your religion behind, now it is time to start looking deeply into some of the biases that have been inbred by it and culture.  Or are you hanging on to the  'a man is worth 2 women' nonsense etc ?  You are brash in your youth, but you can grow. 
  • Hi!
     Reply #32 - May 27, 2016, 10:18 PM

    @afghan hassan
    Women are equal to men.
    You have something to grow, they have some other thing to grow.

    Men and women brains are different on emotional levels, this is true.
    That's why they behave differently in same situations.

    women are more religious than men.
    because they are living in a human society that is very oppressive.

    Religious (moral) indoctrination in very young age plays a important role in women's life.


    Is this yeezevee's joke account?

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Hi!
     Reply #33 - May 27, 2016, 10:39 PM

    @BerberElla Wait, are you saying the data shows male and female average IQ is the same and the reason of women's indoctrination is that they consistently show a low self esteem and the idea male average IQ is higher than female IQ is what they THINK?

    IF that is true, I was wrong, I was under the impression that studies showed that the actual IQ differed. Guess it shows how easily someone can be wrong and how everything needs to be scrutinized heavily to determine the truth. I never looked deep into these studies or read on the factors skewing the data, I didnt know there was a self esteem difference.

    Sorry if I sounded angry or anything, I wasn't being dismissive, I thought the others were being dismissive to me and ending the conversation when they just said, are you serious without presenting any evidence.

    So I will retract my previous statement hope there are no hard feelings, and no I do not think men are better than women or anything, I hate these type of biases and try to make sure I never assume that, I thought I was following the data, looks like I was wrong (I dont mind being wrong as long as there is evidence against my position, that is why I love science, it's great to be wrong because that is how you learn).

    Fuck the whole 1 men = 2 women, that idea is revolting, and no I am not Yeezevee lol.

    Then I will say it is still worth noting that if across time periods and across nations women think they are less intelligent than they are, this person looked at reality the way it was and broke free from the shackles of her self imposed oppression, and that is worth celebrating.  yes

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • Hi!
     Reply #34 - May 27, 2016, 10:46 PM

    Is this yeezevee's joke account?

    No.
    it has nothing to do with yeezevee.
    Check IP address.

    I am a real person and I don't joke.

    I know, My ideas are weird and sometimes misunderstood.

    But I am born like that. I always had problems with other people because of my free views.

    I think you have some problem.
    Every thing I post, looks weird to you.


  • Hi!
     Reply #35 - May 28, 2016, 12:49 PM



    Then I will say it is still worth noting that if across time periods and across nations women think they are less intelligent than they are, this person looked at reality the way it was and broke free from the shackles of her self imposed oppression, and that is worth celebrating.  yes



    Most definitely  Afro , beautiful way to look at it.

    These moments are all a celebration of us people, men and women, not only recognising that we believe Islam is wrong (whatever our reasons) but also that in spite of the numerous social pressures we have faced, something in us has managed to fight against those too.

    Now, we just carry on that journey, and keep on looking inwards, and slowly picking apart all of the things we have been trained to accept as normal. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Hi!
     Reply #36 - May 28, 2016, 04:22 PM

    So, um moving on...

    I plan on leaving very soon like before or during Ramadan which is approaching. I don't want to say besides I just don't believe it anymore. It's hard plan for something that will result in a negative reaction no matter what I say. I just hope they'll continue to let me live with them. I don't care if they treat me badly or ignore me while I live there.
  • Hi!
     Reply #37 - May 28, 2016, 05:16 PM

    Maybe "men are more intelligent" because we live in a men's world and intelligence is gauged through the abilities of men. It says a lot that book and street smarts are rated more highly than emotional intelligence. Men are, to overgeneralize a bit, emotionally dimwitted. Sometimes they don't even know what they feel, let alone have any idea how to express it.

    We value intelligence so much because we live in a world of self-interest, and in effect, individualism. We don't give two shits about how we relate to each other, hence about how we feel. No wonder we have fucked up relationships, with ourselves, with each other, and even with the Earth. There's a reason pagan religions call it Mother Earth. Because we're supposed to love it for nurturing us; we're supposed to have the same relationship with it as we have with our own mothers. But instead we use and abuse it for our own interests without giving a fuck about it. Because who gives a fuck about relationships? Who gives a fuck about how we affect others? We live in a men's world, and as men we're told to go for what we want without any regard for how we affect others.
  • Hi!
     Reply #38 - May 28, 2016, 08:30 PM

    So, um moving on...

    I plan on leaving very soon like before or during Ramadan which is approaching. I don't want to say besides I just don't believe it anymore. It's hard plan for something that will result in a negative reaction no matter what I say. I just hope they'll continue to let me live with them. I don't care if they treat me badly or ignore me while I live there.


    Good luck.  Keep us informed AB.
  • Hi!
     Reply #39 - June 08, 2016, 05:40 PM

    Thanks!

    So, I'm going to write a letter to my parents (and stepmother) about my apostasy because I'm horrible revealing my emotions to them by speaking without lying to them or giving up when they don't understand me.  I would love to get things over with now but a week or two after Eid.. but I decided it would be ideal to just make the best out of Ramadan and Eid by spending more time with them.

    They already know/suspect that my faith is not stable. They believe I will feel better about things if I made more dua/supplementary prayers, feared Allah more, read the Qur'an more, etc.

    So, anyways, back to this proposed letter of mine. First part will be me explaining that I'm not Muslim (and will never return back to Islam) and that I am an agnostic theist. The other half will be me begging them to continue to treat me as family and allow to continue to  live with them until I'm ready to move out.

    The majority of my extended family are following some form of Islam or Christianity. My parents are converts like all the other previous generations of Muslims in my family. Dad went from Christianity to NOI to Sunni Islam and my mom went from NOI to Sunni.

    But I digress...the point is that if they can treat my extended family with love and respect without forcing their beliefs on them even they believe that they are destined for hell (or will "taste" hell before going to Paradise) if they don't turn to "the right path" they are more than capable of showing the same sentiment towards me. But I'm a apostate so... don't know how bad they would react to hearing this but its something that I need to point out.

    Me & my long posts..
  • Hi!
     Reply #40 - June 08, 2016, 06:58 PM

    Welcome to the forum  parrot

    I hope everything will went out good for you
  • Hi!
     Reply #41 - June 08, 2016, 07:14 PM

    @AutumnButterfly
    Consider also adding that IF a God exists he knows you are a good person who doesn't go out of her way to screw others and a truly loving and moral God would not punish someone who just did not have enough evidence for them to believe.

    Also evaluate possibly removing the part where you "beg them to let you stay with them" and replace it with something along the lines of "this doesn't have to change anything about us or our daily life, I just want you guys to know me for who I am, I do not want to lie to you". The thought of kicking you out of the house may not have even occurred to them, and this takes them from a sense of SHOCK of your apostasy to reassurance that it is not a big deal.
    - Also, parents genuinely want to know their kids inside and out, it will play on their emotional bond to you when you show you want to be honest with them and should lessen the blow of your decision so it doesn't hurt them as much.

    It seems you have very open parents, BUT, apostasy is no joke, they are coming from a very emotional position and this act of yours is often interpreted as retaliation, other family is different from their OWN CHILD (they can easily feel like a failure of a parent who was not even able to pass the faith onto their child, after looking at the other family members I bet they vowed to themselves this would not happen to their child because they would make sure of it, this is also often mixed with anger) and in that state people don't think straight, emotions often cloud judgement when it is something as big as this; I know it seems unlikely but think about what you will do if in the unfortunate event you are kicked out of your house with just the clothes on your back. Something many apostates have first hand experience with.

    Just food for thought looking at this from a different angle.

    I know this was long but a decision this big warrants input from others, you can not be rash with a life changing choice.
    Keep us posted, and good luck!  Smiley

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • Hi!
     Reply #42 - June 08, 2016, 08:32 PM

    Yeah....I probably should leave the  fear of being kicked out. That was my paranoia of being abandoned/rejected speaking. I have to stop thinking about worst case scenarios. How they would take it depends.

    I live with my mother and her relationship with me (and my younger siblings) is strained because of how emotional distant she is. Talking to her can be like talking to a brick wall sometimes when it comes to religious. If things get much for her she would try to shut down the conversation or remove herself from the situation.

    My father and stepmother are easier to talk to but coming out to them will be difficult too. When my father found

    The easiest people to confess my apostasy to would be the three eldest of younger siblings since they aren't very religious. The eldest two mostly do the basics of what's required for them (praying,  observing hijab, the five pillars) while the third doesn't pray at all now and lies about doing them. At the very least, I can trust them not run their mouths like my little siblings would.
     
    Another thing I am aware is the possibility that my parents would forbid my siblings from interacting with me. Since I am the oldest, I'm expected to make an effort to be a good role model (even though they rarely acknowledge my authority). I have 10 younger siblings (4 half siblings recuited) so... I'm worried my father might start to lose his mind in grief if one or more of my siblings apostated after I did.
  • Hi!
     Reply #43 - June 09, 2016, 01:17 AM

    How about just riding the slippery slide instead?

    Don't make an issue of it, don't make it a conflict, just do it less and less.
    When they want to talk religion, you tell them how much you love them.

    Unless you have a Plan B that can give you safety and sustain you, you should be very careful about open conflict.

    To quote Sun Tzu:
    Quote
    是故勝兵先勝而後求戰,敗兵先戰而後求勝。
    Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

  • Hi!
     Reply #44 - June 09, 2016, 03:07 AM

    @Ursus That is a good idea.

    When they talk about Islam with me, I make generic statements or just listen without saying anything.

    I have to make more of an effort to pretend that I'm trying to become a better Muslim because I broke their trust this year when they found out I was talking to guys online and that I watched porn and engaged in sexual stuff online for fun and Long story short, my stepmother confronted me with her suspicions, I confessed, my dad found out we talked it out, and then they took away and my iPad restricted my internet privileges  until they felt I was capable being "responsible" online.

    I knew I deserved it for being reckless and stupid about what I was doing. Still it was humiliating that they found out that I was open about my sexuality online. They said that if I was that sexual, I should done things the "proper" way by considering marriage or that I should talk to my father so that I can experiment with Islamic courting so that I can preserve myself. Thankfully I decided against that and just told them I'll consider marriage after I finish college. Now I'm happily in a long distance relationship. Another thing to hide but as long as I'm extra careful I should be ok I think....

    I need to stop rambling so much
  • Hi!
     Reply #45 - June 09, 2016, 03:14 AM

    @Ursus, she is saying it is hard to continuously lie, I agree with her, I am also finding it increasingly hard to keep the act up because once you start using logic to justify your decisions, when they go against a faith based decision you can not help but interject. It is like becoming smart and then pretending to be dumb, you can try but it is draining mentally and you fell chained.

    Nonetheless I do agree with you, you need to consider a viable and sustainable Plan B, we all assume our parents would not freak out over apostasy but the reality is that parents often act completely differently with this, seemingly liberal parents will become Orthodox and Conservative as Fuck all of a sudden.

    I know we sound like parents who are just being controlling, and it is odd seeing that I am only 1 year older than you, but we have seen what happens to a lot of people and the gist of this advice is that you really don't know how your parents will take it, if people (over 20 years old) knew their parents better than you, no-one would get kicked out of their house, but the reality is that people take a full 180 turn when it comes to logic over faith or most things challenging faith.

    To be sure, have a viable Plan B because the reality is that you really don't know your parents' reaction to your apostasy, you know their behaviour to other matters because you have seen how they respond to other situations, but you have never observed their reaction to their child's apostasy and at best you are estimating their reaction, you really don't know reasonably what they will do.

    At the end of the day you can do what ever you want, but people on this forum are just making sure you are well informed, no one is trying to sound like old adults talking down to a child, we are all in this together

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • Hi!
     Reply #46 - June 09, 2016, 05:02 AM

    Okay, as a plan B...I'm still working on that. I've been applied to a couple of places for a job but they never contacted me. So, I'm continuing to look.

    I still have no idea how where I can stay. I wanted to move out and live in a dorm once college starts. But it's too late for me to apply for now. Earlier, my father said he's considering the idea (but he doesn't like the fact that the main hall of the dorm is co-ed... -sigh-) and that he will talk it over with my mother and I and that we will try to decide what's best for me together but that didn't really happen but it was obvious to me that they would prefer me to commute to school via bus or walking (The university is a 30+ minute walk, so not that far at all) So I just decided to go with that.
    ** A month ago I asked my dad if I could move out of my mom's house and live in an apartment complex by myself once I'm able to fully support myself without them, he laughed and looked at me like I was crazy. According to him, a Muslim woman can't live on her own without a family member or husband. Needless to say, he didn't understand why I was mad at him. When I said that my mother said a couple of months ago that she was ok with me moving out once I'm ready to, he was all "haha, we'll see about that" so...yeah. I guess I'll ask my mother again to if her opinion changed.

    * I have no close friends and I can't ask the Muslims I know in the community to shelter me for obvious reasons.

    *My grandma and other members of my extended family might offer me a place to live but they are in another state close to mine which is 2-3 hours away and I can't drive so I don't know how I'm going to get to school.

    * Speaking about driving, I'm going to need to learn how to soon even though the idea of it scares me to death. But car=freedom.

    For now, it looks like I have to rely on my parents money until I get a job. It's difficult having a big fractured family and my dad hasn't been given my mom money on time.My mother and my uh...ex-stepmother are in less than good terms with him because of child support. He also has to support my current stepmother and thier children and us... But He is trying his best support us when he can.

    So, yeah it's a mess. I do ask my mother for money when she can. However, We are living paycheck to paycheck with her. It sucks having to rely on them for my money but I just have to wait to get a response to the places I applied for and continue to look for jobs. Once I have income I can get a bank account and hopefully everything will fall in place.
  • Hi!
     Reply #47 - June 09, 2016, 05:20 AM

    @Afghan Hassan I am considering the advise you guys have given me. I didn't mean to act like I was ignoring you guys by not directly responding. Maybe I should try to listen more and stop rambling about my situation...
  • Hi!
     Reply #48 - June 09, 2016, 02:01 PM

    Quote
    @Ursus, she is saying it is hard to continuously lie, I agree with her, I am also finding it increasingly hard to keep the act up because once you start using logic to justify your decisions, when they go against a faith based decision you can not help but interject. It is like becoming smart and then pretending to be dumb, you can try but it is draining mentally and you fell chained.


    I fully understand that.

    Having to live a double life is exhausting, and rather than lying, I recommend to "keep a careful economy regarding truth".
    Diplomacy has been described as "the art of saying 'Good dog' while you look around for an appropriate rock".
    (Basically, the Sun Tzu quote in other words) Buy time and get in a favorable position, that will either make battle unnecessary or make it unlikely that you loose the battle should it happen.

    It is natural for young humans to want independence from their parents when they become adults themselves. My wife moved out almost exactly at her 18 years birthday, and I joined the army at 19.
    We love our kids, yet we do all we can, to give them the best possible means to become independent and self supporting.

    And that is probably the difference to "moslem culture" (no, I do not believe that there is one unifying "moslem culture") The ever present social control and in-group/out-group mentality.
    Wearing "funny and deeply impractical clothing", not being allowed to do things on your own, having to break up your days work five times to pray (in a pretty loud and demonstrative manner), having a whole month of eating disorder every year and spending a lot of time considering what a 1600 old book thinks about living your life in a society, that has moved quite far since the iron age..... and the constant fear of HELL and shame!

    It all serves to "maintain the group identity", primarily by setting up a lot of obstacles to functioning smoothly in society outside the in-group.
    It also enforces the barriers against breaking out of the group, because it keeps people (especially women) in the social role of a young child:
    You are not trusted to leave the home on your own, major decisions should be made for you by an "adult" (In this case a man, your parents or some woman who has grown old enough to be sexually inactive) and you are not allowed to decide what to wear or who you play with.

    If I was to employ someone, I'd chose a person that seemed reasonably fit, mentally stable and did not flaunt religious symbols.
    Simply because I would expect that person to be most likely to be a stable employee.

  • Hi!
     Reply #49 - June 09, 2016, 02:54 PM

    @AutumnButterfly, Ok this is good. Because you live very close (30min) from the uni, you could easily find TONS of houses up for rent where a student rents a bedroom right infront of the university. This is the cheapest way to be independent at university. But in first year everyone gets a dorm (they pay twice as much for a dorm but it is more fun), but after first year they realize how much of a rip off a dorm is compared to a bedroom you rent infront of the university.

    I would tell you to get a job first, and also go to your university and look for a job there too for the upcoming year, save for atleast 2 month and keep that as a rainy day fund (DO NOT SPEND IT, IT IS FOR EMERGENCIES ONLY), and dont tell anyone you have emergency money left over else if anyone starts spending recklessly in your family, they may think they can guilt trip you to bail them out.
    Then in July go and check out LOTS of open houses for student houses and see which you like, and show interest with a few sellers and say you need some time.

    Now here is the kicker, you tell your parents once you show interest with the seller and have a job and some money saved that you WANT to move out to "focus on your studies" at a home near the university. If they say no you are too young or something like that, you try to convince them over the next few days by showing you are responsible and what not. If the still dont bite the bait, you tell them you have the money, you have thought out how you will leave, and you are going. You will tell them you try to reason with them but they are not listening and that you need to put your education infront of their fears. You will tell them that you need to grow up, and this may be hard but you will try to visit often. Hopefully By now they will agree, if they do not, give it a few days, bring it up again and if they still say no, you tell them you have made your decision to leave.
    -Again make sure you focus on education and not showing signs of rebellion, talk about how you will be closer to the uni and what not.

    This way you do not need to come out of the closet, you can do whatever you want at your student house, and you do not need to deal with the emotional reaction of your parents from your apostasy.
    Also, above I am really pushing that you try to get them to reason with you, if not you become more and more stern, you want them to accept without having to give them an ultimatum that you are leaving.

    Also, because you are terrified of driving and the university is near, you are in luck, you can ride your bike to see the homes, and you could walk or get a taxi with your suitcase to the student house. You do not necessarily need to learn to drive because your university will probably give you guys a bus pass you pay for through your tuition and there will be a grocery near the university.

    Hope this helps, I lived offcampus in a bedroom I rented in a house full of other students, right infront of the university for a fraction of the cost all my friends in dorms paid, but honestly it seems dorms are a lot more fun in first year, so you need to determine which you will take based off how much money you can get.

    I agree with Ursus, if you can, avoid fighting the dog, if you can walk around the dog, do that, it is easier, but only confront about the apostasy if you can not leave the home in university and you can not take it anymore.

    Don't jump to the last resort all at once, and try to get your parents to reason with you and show them you will pay for your rent yourself, he may be afraid of the aditional cost he would pay because he is thinking as the dad he needs to pay for you, so if you show he will not have to pay it will help your case, but GET A JOB FIRST, and if you can get your dad on your side it will help, he is an adult who loves you, he has lived too and I bet he will have additional pieces of advice on anything from how to do taxes to how to save money when buying food etc...

    Hope it goes well.

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • Hi!
     Reply #50 - June 10, 2016, 06:35 PM

    Thanks for all of the advice guys!

    Yesterday, my dad told me that he's ok with me living in the dorms as long as I can take care of myself and my living area (I'm very disorganized...).  I need to discuss the idea of renting a place near the university, but I'm sure he's not object to that idea as well. Today I got $110 as a graduation gift from my family and my dad is going to help me set up a bank account and might put money in there to start me off. So, I just need to focus on getting a job.

    I don't know how long I will be able to maintain this duplicitous life of mine. The emotional strain is consuming has been consuming me for a long time. It sucks away at the at my happiness and dampens anything enjoyable I do or have with my family. My faith in Islam gradually decrease these past six years and even before  that I have always felt that I couldn't  express myself the way I wanted to without fear of my family and everyone else's reactions. So, I strived to bottle my true emotions.

    Anyways, the most difficult part of coming out to my family would be the concept of my disbelief itself.  My family would think the reason a born Muslim would leave Islam would be because "they didn't fear Allah enough", "wanted to see how kafir life was like", "She just hates covering"... etc. The fact that I left because I lost my belief in Islam is incomprehensible to them. Like many Muslims, they think belief and disbelief are choices. I don't know how I can make that come across to them and withstand the emotional repercussions too. At least my father and step mom would try to be civil. My mother however would go straight to "you are destined for hell unless you come back and you are going to be an immoral and awful person..."

    I digress, I digress but my depression is coming back more frequently and my resentment will grow stronger the more I have to pretend to be Muslim. I am too afraid of wearing casual clothes outside lest I'll run into someone recognizes me in my smallish city. So, I'm also am going to try to get a counselors because I see a nervous breakdown in my future...and I could really use one in general
  • Hi!
     Reply #51 - June 10, 2016, 06:52 PM

    Congratulations with the graduation!

     banana dance clap fest42 cheers 13

    I see your dilemma, but look at the bright side: Your family is supportive and not trying to keep you locked up at home!  They are actively helping you to gain economic and geographical independence.

    They actually accept that you are growing up.

    And yes, it is a bit scary to move away from home, but you can do it!
     far away hug
  • Hi!
     Reply #52 - June 10, 2016, 07:03 PM

    Thank you, Ursus!

    I need to stop making it look like they're worse than what they are...they are amazing and I know they will stop caring about me or loving me.
     I'll just live in the moment for now. Fasting is upsetting my emotions and my sleep schedule and my body but I'll live through it like I did in previous years.
  • Hi!
     Reply #53 - June 10, 2016, 07:44 PM

    Having your sleeping and eating patterns upset is probably not exactly smart in your current situation.
  • Hi!
     Reply #54 - June 10, 2016, 08:20 PM

    Yeah Congratulations graduating  happydance

    Regarding emotional drain, do what you love that you can really get into and the rest of the world dissapears, for me that's sports or comedy (especially hilarious stuff on rexmuslim or I go over to r islam and read really idiotic things followed by tons of mindless sheep saying MASHALLAH, SUBHANALLAH, AND ALLLLLAAAAAAAAAAHUAKKBAR  suckers it helps relieve my irritation,

    On a lighter note, staying in dorms or off campus is great because you get to be yourself and you get to redefine yourself at uni. That is what I did, I was super shy but coming into uni no one knew me so I pretended to be super confident and outgoing at first and that is what people "think" I am like, now I get to continue being this more fun version of myself.
    Likewise you do not need to hang out with religious people and if you have a religious name just say it is a local arab name, muslims just picked it up, you will become comfortable in uni because you get to surround yourself with whatever people you like.
    I started off uni muslim so I had a mix of friends, after apostasizing it became a pain in the ass because I am always checking for the old muslim friends hoping they dont see me eating bacon or drinking. A few hours ago I was making sure no muslims were in the cafeteria cuz I dont want to explain my apostasy and why I am not fasting or deal with the drama that ensues, so you do not need to worry about the people either, you only need to think about an adult seeing you when you are walking to the uni, but this should not be too much of a problem because you will be a stone throws away from your school.

    You need to relax and not worry so much about the future because you will find so many different people you will find like minded people there, being a muslim will be a thing of the past and you will feel it slowly drift away until you forget you were ever a muslim and it will seem absurd to you that people use anything other than logic or evidence to determine reality.

    DONT BE SHY FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL. Everyone will be nervous, no one knows anyone, you can start a convo with anyone and they will continue because they dont know anyone else, TALK TO EVERYONE, you will meet a ton of people and this way you can filter out people and choose who you want to maintain as your friends. This will be the easiest time to make friends, just gotta let go of the nerves and remember, this is a new beginning, Have fun!

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • Hi!
     Reply #55 - June 11, 2016, 04:59 AM

    I now have $310 dollars. I'll save the $300 and I will keep the $10 to myself.

    I talked to my dad about letting me rent out a apartment near the school. He said I'm not ready to live on mg own yet and that I have to accomplish some things before then. I bet one of those things is to get married, haha...

    Anyway, he is ok with me living on campus. But I decided to stay at home and commute to the school because I didn't want to have even more money added to my future debt. My dad then said that I should him let him know when I am ready.

    I think I can make it..just have to again be super careful in hiding my relationship because some of my siblings and my step mom (although she does it for her best interest) have a habit of breaking my privacy especially if they . I might even get in trouble with talking to my friend, who's male. I can't break their trust again before apostating to them... So just have to ride cautiously.
  • Hi!
     Reply #56 - June 12, 2016, 06:20 AM

    Soo, I talked to my stepmother yesterday about Islam and I asked questions under the guise of a "doubting Muslim. And um, well it made a few things clear to me...

    * To her, me taking off my hijab would apparently be a horrible thing to do. I guess my hair is too lewd to show. She said that while she openly encouraged to express ourselves with our hijabs/abayas with different colors, designs, styles and or just long shirts/skirts/dresses, the hijab itself is an requirement because it is Sunnah. When I pointed out that the Qur'an doesn't say that she said that the hadith and sunnah clarifies the way Muslim women should dress. She says you can't take things in the Qur'an at face value all of the time... you need to analyze the hadith and sunnah to interpret it the way it fits you without going again Islam.
    * She believes that while disbelievers will go to hell, everyone will go to heaven eventually. I never met a Muslim who had the view before. It was very interesting... I wish I could have countered her point with why Allah would test us if he was going to let everyone get a reward (even the ones that "failed".) So apparently according to her, If I was a kafir (I am one now of course)  I'm going to be punished for not believing and then I will go to Paradise because of the good I did in the world or what?
    * It will be very difficult to explain to my dad and step mom that I just don't believe in Islam and that I believe that it not the right/best path for me. Since they were both converts they found Islam to make much more sense and that it was the true path for them. Because I'm a a born Muslim who was raised on Sunni... they cannot fathom why my faith would go away. They understand why converts would  leave Islam or have doubts about it.
  • Hi!
     Reply #57 - June 13, 2016, 12:28 AM

    Quote
    Because I'm a a born Muslim who was raised on Sunni... they cannot fathom why my faith would go away. They understand why converts would  leave Islam or have doubts about it.


    They ought to.

    What religion were they before they converted? I guess they were born into something too, and they must have doubted that, otherwise, how could they convert?
  • Hi!
     Reply #58 - June 13, 2016, 12:48 AM

    Soo, I talked to my stepmother yesterday about Islam and I asked questions under the guise of a "doubting Muslim. And um, well it made a few things clear to me...

    * To her, me taking off my hijab would apparently be a horrible thing to do. I guess my hair is too lewd to show. She said that while she openly encouraged to express ourselves with our hijabs/abayas with different colors, designs, styles and or just long shirts/skirts/dresses, the hijab itself is an requirement because it is Sunnah. When I pointed out that the Qur'an doesn't say that she said that the hadith and sunnah clarifies the way Muslim women should dress. She says you can't take things in the Qur'an at face value all of the time... you need to analyze the hadith and sunnah to interpret it the way it fits you without going again Islam.
    * She believes that while disbelievers will go to hell, everyone will go to heaven eventually. I never met a Muslim who had the view before. It was very interesting... I wish I could have countered her point with why Allah would test us if he was going to let everyone get a reward (even the ones that "failed".) So apparently according to her, If I was a kafir (I am one now of course)  I'm going to be punished for not believing and then I will go to Paradise because of the good I did in the world or what?
    * It will be very difficult to explain to my dad and step mom that I just don't believe in Islam and that I believe that it not the right/best path for me. Since they were both converts they found Islam to make much more sense and that it was the true path for them. Because I'm a a born Muslim who was raised on Sunni... they cannot fathom why my faith would go away. They understand why converts would  leave Islam or have doubts about it.



    Didn't your parents accept them leaving their original religion to become muslim, ask them why their parents allowed this (was it because they didn't have faith in their religion or that they let their kids grow up and come to their own conclusions. Have the enjoyed the benefit of going on their path. If so shouldn't everyone else get that same freedom too, if it was bad, why did your parents take that freedom no problem only to deny it to someone else, you can slip in the point where Mohammad said the people in the lowest pits of hell will be the HYPOCRITES),

    Using fear from their religion against them will get them to think critically, and say Muhammad told us God will judge everyone differently depending on their understanding, intellect, and the experiences that shaped their upbringing, and that Allah is all wise and All Just. If they really believe it, you will experience SOME push back but they will give way, also try not to bring this up during the day because fasting deprives brain from glucose and inhibits critical thinking and emotional control, talk to them after Iftar, and also they may be a bit extra due to Ramadan, so keep pushing but gauge their reactions and respond accordingly  Smiley

    As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
  • Hi!
     Reply #59 - June 13, 2016, 12:59 AM

    Welcome to the forum AutumnButterfly! Have a rabbit!  bunny

    I'm sorry your intro thread went off on such a tangent of men being more intelligent or some shit. I hope you'll take it from me (being a super smart man  Wink ) that during my lengthy time on this forum that misogyny hasn't been the prevailing view. It tends to be a relic of thought processes that newer male apostates tend to carry. So yeah, sorry about that. Hope you're not too off-put and that you do choose to take part in the conversations here!  Afro

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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