Please help me debunk this miracle!

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- Nicoletta
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Please help me debunk this miracle!
OP - June 16, 2016, 08:02 AM

Hi! I am new here. I almost converted to Islam months ago because of the so called miracles, but after doing an extensive research and reading the Quran, I became an agnostic atheist, since I thought there is no way that this barbaric, erroneous, repetitive book is the word of God. I am almost completely free now, however, a few days ago I found a miracle I can't explain.

And We send the fecundating winds, then cause water to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water in abundance. (Qur'an, 15:22)

It has been recently discovered that the winds actually fertilize water vapour with dust particles. And it is not a modern interpretation, I have read somewhere that al-Tabari wrote about this verse and said that the winds fertilizes the clouds so that rain could fall. I also read that it's actually the winds that charge the clouds electrically and make them weigh so much.

I have been thinking about this for days, and can't find an explaination. I thought that maybe the 'fecundating winds' and 'sending down water' has nothing to do with each other because some translate the word 'then' as 'and', but after doing a little research on the meaning of the conjuction 'fa', I found that it is used to express logical connection. I don't know whether this can also be translated as 'and', because one site wrote it can and the other said that it is erroneous. Arabic speakers, what are your opinions on this matter? And what is the possible explaination of this verse?
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Reply #1 - June 16, 2016, 09:30 AM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 16, 2016, 08:02 AM
....... a few days ago I found a miracle I can't explain.
Quote
And We send the fecundating winds, then cause water to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water in abundance. (Qur'an, 15:22)

............Arabic speakers, what are your opinions on this matter? And what is the possible explaination of this verse? ....

hello Nicoletta., welcome ., hmm let me read that again., the Quran..

Quote
And We send the fecundating winds, then cause water to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water in abundance. (Qur'an, 15:22)

what you said seems to be riot.,that does sound like a miracle., those few words indeed pack a punch of miracle Nicoletta., I actually read whole Quran number of times and some time i too wonder like you but in a broader sense., And that is

What s NOT a miracle in my life?
and What s NOT a miracle in your life?
or for that matter What s NOT a miracle in any one's life?
and even better question is What s NOT a miracle in any life's life?

yes Nicoletta., you are riot, indeed you are absolutely riot ., Again welcome to CEMB forum., I am glad you joined the forum to educate the folks about

"The miracles of Quran.
the miracle of hydrogen atom
and the miracle of oxygen atom
so the miracle of water.,
and miracle of rain
hence the miracles of life.."

That one verse has so much in it, so many miracles in it and I wonder, how many more miracles will people find if they read Quran carefully.

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Reply #2 - June 16, 2016, 12:42 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Wow, you are even looking into the Arabic originals to check the meaning. Wish more did due diligence before making such a giant commitment. Good for you!

As to miracles, overzealous believers of all faiths contort the meaning of the original text to suit their purpose. A cursory google search will show that.

IMHO even if something in any sacred scripture turned out to foretell a recent scientific fact, it would be merely a coincidence, considering the other nonsensical stuff one is required to believe that's been disproven by science.
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Reply #3 - June 16, 2016, 03:00 PM

Welcome aboard

Be glad you were not fooled by that "miracle".

To be miraculous, it should be something they could not possibly have known otherwise, right?

People were not stupid in the old days. If you made your living from farming, you'd better be very observant with regards to nature, or you would starve.

What does the verse really say?

"The rain clouds are carried by the wind, and the rain is vital for the growth of the crops"

You can't tell me, that a person living his life in the fields, watching the ways of nature all day, can't deduce that without divine help?
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Reply #4 - June 16, 2016, 07:02 PM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 16, 2016, 08:02 AM

And We send the fecundating winds, then cause water to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water in abundance. (Qur'an, 15:22)

I have been thinking about this for days, and can't find an explaination. I thought that maybe the 'fecundating winds' and 'sending down water' has nothing to do with each other because some translate the word 'then' as 'and', but after doing a little research on the meaning of the conjuction 'fa', I found that it is used to express logical connection. I don't know whether this can also be translated as 'and', because one site wrote it can and the other said that it is erroneous. Arabic speakers, what are your opinions on this matter? And what is the possible explaination of this verse?

You've been thinking for days about this?

And it is He who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy until, when they have carried heavy rainclouds, We drive them to a dead land and We send down rain therein and bring forth thereby [some] of all the fruits. Thus will We bring forth the dead; perhaps you may be reminded. (7:57)

And it is He who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy, and We send down from the sky pure water (24:48)

And it is Allah who sends the winds, and they stir the clouds, and We drive them to a dead land and give life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness. Thus is the resurrection. (35:9)

So... the winds stir up the clouds and brings them with water which fertilizes the ground and gives it life... pretty simple explanation. Some tafsir explanations are pretty close to this they say that the winds fertilize the plants by opening up their leaves and fertilize the coulds with water to rain when they are driven to barren lands. http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20Kathir/PDF/015%20Hijr.pdf

Nothing about...

Quote
It has been recently discovered that the winds actually fertilize water vapour with dust particles. And it is not a modern interpretation, I have read somewhere that al-Tabari wrote about this verse and said that the winds fertilizes the clouds so that rain could fall. I also read that it's actually the winds that charge the clouds electrically and make them weigh so much.

I mean, what is this garbage? Where does the verse say anything about dust particles or electricity? If something is vague you don't just interpolate a bunch of information and say that information is present. Islamic apologists do this all the time crafting understandings from information that they crowbar in.
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Reply #5 - June 16, 2016, 07:34 PM

Sorry, could you explain what the miracle is?
- Nicoletta
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Reply #6 - June 16, 2016, 07:57 PM

Thank you for the answers and greetings

The miracle is that the clouds have a "fecundating" role in wind formation, and it was unknown during the time of Muhammad, but I have been thinking about this and realized that it is way too vague to be considered a miracle. It doesn't even say what does the wind fecundate, and with what. Maybe it really means that the rain is good for the plants or fecundate them, the rain comes from the clouds and the clouds are carried by the winds. Maybe the author chose that word because rhymmed well with the rest of the verse, and it was not supposed to have any meanings. Or maybe it is there for some individual reasons nobody knows of. I think if the author really had known about the role of the wind in cloud formation, they would have mentioned it in more that one place. The Quran talks about rain and clouds in many places, so where are the winds from there? And whoever wrote the Quran, they do not seem to have knowledge about the water cycle. The most common objection to this is that one verse mentions "returning rain", but that is about how rain starts falling, stops, then goes away, later it returns and starts falling again. The same goes with the expanding universe. If Allah wanted us to know about it, why didn't he mention it in verses that are about the heavens? Why does he need to talk in riddles when he claims that the book is clear to understand? And why did he write absurdities such as the Sun setting into a muddy spring? Allegory or not, it's just ridicilous. My 7 year old little brother had a laughing fit when I told him about it. The whole book gives the impression that it was written by a 7th century Arab for 7th century Arabs, and not for people of all time and places. And miracles like this can be found in other ancient books, the Georgica for example describes the 5 climate zones in the Earth, and while it clearly talks about something else, it shows how easy it is to fit modern findings into ancient texts.
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Reply #7 - June 16, 2016, 08:05 PM

Quote from: Hassan on June 16, 2016, 07:34 PM
Sorry, could you explain what the miracle is?

what?? is that a joke., don't tell me you didn't understand OP of Nicoletta -..

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 16, 2016, 08:02 AM

And We send the fecundating winds, ............. (Qur'an, 15:22)

....winds actually fertilize...................

......... maybe the 'fecundating winds' and 'sending down water' ...........

It is about 'fecundating winds'. Hassan you seem not to understand the Quran verse you explained some time back.. then watch all these the tube ..

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5gR4TS6D7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC68STlvyQw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlIbkYEEwBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AizZGyz89HM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS62Xf6MF9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFOhChtPXoY

look at that tubes., Damn there are more than 100 tubes and sure some 100 articles out there on that fecundating

what a word ., fecundating ......... 'fecundating winds'

I don't know .. whether it is "fecundating winds" or fuck dating winds to fertilize sky to get rain/semen that gives life to planet earth Fools talk nonsense ..sing songs with nonsense to brain wash innocent kids using some polemic parable words of Quran..

MOCK THEM AND MOVE ON..

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #8 - June 16, 2016, 08:11 PM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 16, 2016, 07:57 PM

...........Maybe the author chose that word because rhymmed well with the rest of the verse,
.....The Quran talks about rain and clouds in many places, so where are the winds from there? And whoever wrote the Quran, they do not seem to have knowledge about the water cycle.
....If Allah wanted us to know about it, why didn't he mention it in verses that are about the heavens? Why does he need to talk in riddles when he claims that the book is clear to understand? And why did he write absurdities such as the Sun setting into a muddy spring? Allegory or not, ..... The whole book gives the impression that it was written by a 7th century Arab for 7th century Arabs, and not for people of all time and places. And miracles like this can be found in other ancient books, the Georgica for example describes the 5 climate zones in the Earth, and while it clearly talks about something else, it shows how easy it is to fit modern findings into ancient texts.

THAT IS ALL GOOD Nicoletta
Quote
it's just ridicilous.

No..no.. the Book is NOT ridiculous., that book is book of its time from writers of its time as you said., What is ridiculous is., fools in 21st century trying to milk miracles out of Quran in defense of their Islamic Dawah

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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Reply #9 - June 16, 2016, 09:05 PM

The verse is old news. Claudius Ptolemy thought Jupiter produced fertilizing winds. This is no different than saying Allah did it. The Babylonians and Egyptians knew about pollination by the wind. Both civilizations grew date crops but used hand fertilization to gain the greatest yield as wind was not sufficient as it couldn't produce an acceptable yield. Date trees when developed are either male or female, not both. So by using only the wind and insects a farmer would need a higher amount of male to female ratio to ensure fertilization. However this reduces the crop yields as you have to keep male trees alive. After all X amount of tree produce no dates. It also takes up more resources to keep what is more or less donors alive. With hand pollination a farmer could remove all but a few male trees to use for pollination. The male trees that are not required are removed and replaced until a female tree is produced.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/ptb/ptb07.htm

A lot of these miracle claims openly state that everyone must of been stupid prior to the Quran. However more often than not there are far older source of knowledge from the Quran. Which only shows those that put forward these miracle claims are poor at researching anything beyond their confirmation bias.
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Reply #10 - June 16, 2016, 09:51 PM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 16, 2016, 07:57 PM
The miracle is that the clouds have a "fecundating" role in wind formation, and it was unknown during the time of Muhammad,

I still don't understand what the miracle is?

1. the clouds have a "fecundating" role in wind formation,

Do they? What does that even mean?

2. it was unknown during the time of Muhammad,

How do you know?
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Reply #11 - June 17, 2016, 09:12 AM

Hi, welcome to the forum

The masked Arab is also talking about this miracle. I haven't watched the video again, but I remember that he points out that it was already mentioned in the Bible in much more detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvG-606KqwU
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Reply #12 - June 17, 2016, 09:54 AM
Quote from: bogart on June 16, 2016, 09:05 PM
The verse is old news. Claudius Ptolemy thought Jupiter produced fertilizing winds. This is no different than saying Allah did it. The Babylonians and Egyptians knew about pollination by the wind. Both civilizations grew date crops but used hand fertilization to gain the greatest yield as wind was not sufficient as it couldn't produce an acceptable yield. Date trees when developed are either male or female, not both. So by using only the wind and insects a farmer would need a higher amount of male to female ratio to ensure fertilization. However this reduces the crop yields as you have to keep male trees alive. After all X amount of tree produce no dates. It also takes up more resources to keep what is more or less donors alive. With hand pollination a farmer could remove all but a few male trees to use for pollination. The male trees that are not required are removed and replaced until a female tree is produced.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/ptb/ptb07.htm
A lot of these miracle claims openly state that everyone must of been stupid prior to the Quran. However more often than not there are far older source of knowledge from the Quran. Which only shows those that put forward these miracle claims are poor at researching anything beyond their confirmation bias.
sacred texts.com ......That is a great website and I often scan through it to read religious gibberish bogart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG1yFHh-mms

John Bruno Hare, Founder ( 1955 - 2010) founder of that website was a great guy....
Quote
The website was first opened to the public on March 9, 1999 by John Bruno Hare (July 8, 1955 – April 27, 2010), in Santa Cruz, California, USA.[4] Hare started building the website from his home in Santa Cruz, CA in the late 1990s, as "an intellectual challenge". At the time, he was working as a software engineer with a dot-com company, and started by scanning over 1,000 public domain books on religion, folklore and mythology Its texts are organized into 77 different categories, with several new texts being added each month .

The maintenance costs for the website—which as of 2006 receives anywhere from five hundred thousand to two million visits a day—are funded by sales of the website on DVD or CD-ROM and other monetary donations

this goddamn planet with lot of religious gibberish brain washed folks owes something to guys like John Bruno Hare..
Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Nicoletta
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Reply #13 - June 17, 2016, 02:38 PM

After reading the answers and the links, I honestly have no idea what I found so amazing about that verse, so thank you all

Oh, so tasfirs say that the wind comes from the sky. That's something Islamic sites didn't mention, I wonder why
And the author of the Quran does not seem to know about the water cycle ( though apologists came up with a few verses to protest, but no matter how hard I analise them, I can't find water cycle ).

"Five zones comprise the Earth: of which one
is always bright with the glittering sun, and always burned by his flames:
round this at the sky’s ends, two stretch to left and right,
layered with ice and darkened by storms:
between these and the central zone, two more have been given
to weak humanity, by the grace of the gods, and a track passes
between them, on which the oblique procession of Signs can revolve".

I think this is more miracolous than any of the Quran's claims. It's not 100% correct, but it clearly shows how easy it is to "predict" things in ancient poetry.
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Reply #14 - June 17, 2016, 02:47 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 17, 2016, 09:54 AM
sacred texts.com ......That is a great website and I often scan through it to read religious gibberish bogart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG1yFHh-mms

John Bruno Hare, Founder ( 1955 - 2010) founder of that website was a great guy....
this goddamn planet with lot of religious gibberish brain washed folks owes something to guys like John Bruno Hare..

A major issue is that often many sources are behind a paywall, expertise only membership or a general membership for a particular school, institution, etc. There is also the network developed which connects these different databases in which having a membership in one grants access to another. The ease of access is underappreciated by those that have it. Those that do not often find a large portion of their research time is wasted on finding databases so their source research itself suffers.
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Reply #15 - June 17, 2016, 03:53 PM

Hi Nicoletta, and welcome to CEMB! I'm not all that knowledgeable about Arabic and certainly haven't had much experience trying to parse out the Qu'ran in its original Arabic language, so kudos to you for taking that effort. But I do have a couple thoughts on the verse in question.

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 16, 2016, 08:02 AM
It has been recently discovered that the winds actually fertilize water vapour with dust particles. And it is not a modern interpretation, I have read somewhere that al-Tabari wrote about this verse and said that the winds fertilizes the clouds so that rain could fall. I also read that it's actually the winds that charge the clouds electrically and make them weigh so much.

Like Ursus said above, people were not stupid in the old days. People and civilizations had been studying weather for millennia before the Qu'ran came along, including (but not limited to) the Babylonians and the ancient Greeks (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wea.758/full is a decent quick primer). Long before Muhammad existed, Aristotle wrote a text called Meteorologica, in which he theorized about the earth, the weather, the universe, etc. In one section, he wrote:
Quote
The facts bear out our theory. It is because the evaporation takes
place uninterruptedly but differs in degree and quantity that clouds
and winds appear in their natural proportion according to the season

(see http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.mb.txt for full text)

The reason I'm bringing this up even though it's not quite the same as what the Qu'ran says is to show that, for hundreds and thousands of years before Muhammad (and for hundreds and thousands of years after), there were many cultures and individuals who developed many theories of the natural and physical world based on their observations. This verse from the Qu'ran doesn't really demonstrate anything those people couldn't have observed or theorized themselves.

Moreover, the development of electrical charge in clouds is still a poorly understood phenomenon, and we don't yet know what role, if any, wind plays in it.
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Reply #16 - June 17, 2016, 04:08 PM

Don't know what all this is about electric charge.

The verse says nothing about that.
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Reply #17 - June 18, 2016, 08:00 AM

Quote from: Iceman on June 17, 2016, 03:53 PM
Hi Nicoletta, and welcome to CEMB! I'm not all that knowledgeable about Arabic and certainly haven't had much experience trying to parse out the Qu'ran in its original Arabic language, so kudos to you for taking that effort. But I do have a couple thoughts on the verse in question.
Like Ursus said above, people were not stupid in the old days. People and civilizations had been studying weather for millennia before the Qu'ran came along, including (but not limited to) the Babylonians and the ancient Greeks (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wea.758/full is a decent quick primer). Long before Muhammad existed, Aristotle wrote a text called Meteorologica, in which he theorized about the earth, the weather, the universe, etc. In one section, he wrote:(see http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.mb.txt for full text)

The reason I'm bringing this up even though it's not quite the same as what the Qu'ran says is to show that, for hundreds and thousands of years before Muhammad (and for hundreds and thousands of years after), there were many cultures and individuals who developed many theories of the natural and physical world based on their observations. This verse from the Qu'ran doesn't really demonstrate anything those people couldn't have observed or theorized themselves.

Moreover, the development of electrical charge in clouds is still a poorly understood phenomenon, and we don't yet know what role, if any, wind plays in it.

Hi!
Thank you
An Arabic version of the book you mentioned existed and was used by Muslims around the 9th century, so its content might had been known in the 7th century in the Middle East. Yes, searching for the meanings of arabic words can be quite difficult since online translators are not really useful ( they are good if you are looking for the meaning of a single word, but they can't translate a sentence properly ), and dictionaries are made for people who already know this language, because they detail the meaning depending on the form of the verb. Well, I don't even know what the verb is, how should I know whether it is in perfect tense? I would like to learn the language later in my life ( not because of Islam, I just like learning languages ), but I'd rather finish high school first.
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Reply #18 - June 18, 2016, 08:48 AM

Quote from: Hassan on June 17, 2016, 04:08 PM
Don't know what all this is about electric charge.

The verse says nothing about that.

To be honest, me neither. I was very confused when I posted this. Also, the site where I read this claims that there is a verse in the Quran which says that the winds excite the clouds. It actually says that they lift them up, and noone translated it as "excite". It's funny how that guy thinks all translators are stupid, but he can figure out the real meaning of the verses.
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Reply #19 - June 18, 2016, 09:00 AM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 18, 2016, 08:48 AM
It's funny how that guy thinks all translators are stupid, but he can figure out the real meaning of the verses.

Lol... yes indeed.

Trust me all this scientific miracle stuff is sheer nonsense. It's simply an exercise of reading into vague words what one wants to see and ignoring what one doesn't want to see.

This "miracle" is one of those promoted by Harun Yahya (aka Adnan Oktar) who is a total fraud, charlatan, cult leader and pimp.
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Reply #20 - June 18, 2016, 09:02 AM

This is a video I made about one of his claims:

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=F22v2CoqMj8
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Reply #21 - June 18, 2016, 10:06 AM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 18, 2016, 08:48 AM
To be honest, me neither. I was very confused when I posted this. Also, the site where I read this claims that there is a verse in the Quran which says that the winds excite the clouds. It actually says that they lift them up, and noone translated it as "excite". It's funny how that guy thinks all translators are stupid, but he can figure out the real meaning of the verses.

hello Nicoletta., well it will be better to put that link in your posts and on these words of yours
Quote from: Nicoletta on June 18, 2016, 08:00 AM

An Arabic version of the book .....
Muslims around the 9th century, ....
known in the 7th century in the Middle East......
meanings of arabic words can be quite difficult
I would like to learn the language later in my life ( not because of Islam, I just like learning languages ), but I'd rather finish high school first .

If i were you I will stop all that nonsense and focus on high school, college, motor cycles, cars, friends, girl friends instead of playing with stupid Islamic history. Islamic miracles, Quran and wasting your time. specially the time the high school time.. May be at best you can start learning language taking an extra class ., But I would suggest to you to stop other things ..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #22 - June 18, 2016, 11:19 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 18, 2016, 10:06 AM
hello Nicoletta., well it will be better to put that link in your posts and on these words of yours
If i were you I will stop all that nonsense and focus on high school, college, motor cycles, cars, friends, girl friends instead of playing with stupid Islamic history. Islamic miracles, Quran and wasting your time. specially the time the high school time.. May be at best you can start learning language taking an extra class ., But I would suggest to you to stop other things ..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Oh, sure here's the link
http://www.answering-christianity.com/rain_miracle.htm
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Reply #23 - June 18, 2016, 11:26 AM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 18, 2016, 11:19 AM
Oh, sure here's the link
http://www.answering-christianity.com/rain_miracle.htm

oh this Egyptian idiot..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNdIGq8gAU

Mid mid 90s to all the way to that 9/11., Group of well educated rascals along with him got close to billion dollar funding from Saudi Government to start books,videos, conferences on this Nonsense of science in Quran. In fact they ran 3 to 4 international conferences long with some western scientists., it was just pre-internet times..

thanks to open access high speed internet, all these idiots closed their shops now

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #24 - June 22, 2016, 06:30 AM

Hmm...

Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
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Reply #25 - June 22, 2016, 06:31 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 18, 2016, 11:26 AM
oh this Egyptian idiot..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNdIGq8gAU

Mid mid 90s to all the way to that 9/11., Group of well educated rascals along with him got close to billion dollar funding from Saudi Government to start books,videos, conferences on this Nonsense of science in Quran. In fact they ran 3 to 4 international conferences long with some western scientists., it was just pre-internet times..

thanks to open access high speed internet, all these idiots closed their shops now

Osama Abdallah is not Egyptian.

Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
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Reply #26 - June 22, 2016, 07:48 AM

Quote from: A Muslim on June 22, 2016, 06:31 AM
Osama Abdallah is not Egyptian.

this high school drop out from Pakistan living in AMRIKA copies all that stuff from those international Quran science meetings that were conducted by that Egyptian fool Dr Zaghloul Mohammad Al Najjar dear A Muslim, It is along story., first International Seminar on Quran & Science, was conducted in Karachi on 26th June, 1986, that conference proceeding is available in some libraries
Quote
International Seminar on Quran & Science, 26th June, 1986, Karachi : proceedings.
Author:   Pakistan Association of Scientists and Scientific Professions.
Publisher:   Karachi : SUPARCO, 1987.
Edition/Format:    Print book : Conference publication : English
Database:   WorldCat

dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy wrote something on that in 1987., read this link at http://eacpe.org/content/uploads/2014/02/They-Call-It-Islamic-Science.pdf .. That is where it started and these high school drop outs like Osama Abdallah or that Indian Zakir Naik., Turkey Adnan Oktar copies stuff from there and throws around web or debate with folks on internet.. But Dr Zaghloul Mohammad Al Najjar of Egypt along with some western scientists who were given free trips in that conference is the starting point for popularizing these these Quran & Science nonsense

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- A Muslim
- ... Just a scary ex-Muslim. Boo!
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Reply #27 - June 27, 2016, 03:30 AM

Oh, I see what you mean. Thanks for the information.

Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
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Reply #28 - October 18, 2017, 07:07 PM

Quote from: Nicoletta on June 18, 2016, 11:19 AM
Oh, sure here's the link
http://www.answering-christianity.com/rain_miracle.htm

Answering Christianity isn't even worth looking at, I haven't actually looked at this specific page but they lie too many times with false assertions to bother listening too. I believe that the masked arab covers that breifly in the video.

The goal is to lie to westerners as they don't understand arabic.

Just think if the qu'ran had scientific miracles in for 1,400 years don't you think someone in the giant Islamic empires would have found this knowledge, being read every single day and all?
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Reply #29 - October 19, 2017, 05:23 PM

Quote from: blueskysea123 on October 18, 2017, 07:07 PM
Answering Christianity isn't even worth looking at, I haven't actually looked at this specific page but they lie too many times with false assertions to bother listening too. I believe that the masked arab covers that breifly in the video.

The goal is to lie to westerners as they don't understand arabic.

Just think if the qu'ran had scientific miracles in for 1,400 years don't you think someone in the giant Islamic empires would have found this knowledge, being read every single day and all?

Yeah, I figured that out by now . That site is what almost made me convert to Islam. Luckily I decided to look into these so-called miracles myself, using objective sources and found that they are nowhere as impressive as they are said to be. I am still confused about the expanding universe one, but even that is way too vague, especially for a book that is allegedly clear to understand. Answering christianity regularly misquotes 41:53, and replaces the word "themselves" with "their selves" to prove that scientific miracles are mentioned in the Quran. So some of their claims (like this one) can be debunked by looking up the cited verse. I have no idea how the writer of these articles still has credibility as he lies way more than those "domed to hell infidels" or whatever he likes to call us.
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