(Ex)Muslim dating

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- Cato
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Reply #30 - July 03, 2016, 05:12 AM

I find it too self restrictive for one to limit themselves to ex-muslim(personally I wouldn't mind a relationship with one depending on one's personality and character). It's like a Muslim not wanting to marry a non-muslim for obvious reasons so why still place limitations on yourself when you can date anyone of your choice,I mean that's how I feel.

However,I can understand how family or cultural pressure can affect one's choice. Although for me; Muslim,Christian,Jew,Pagan or Atheist. If she is cool and socially liberal,it's fine by me. Personality and Character is what matters most to me at the end.

"I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

"No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
- Absurdist
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Reply #31 - July 03, 2016, 12:15 PM

Quote from: Hsnake on July 02, 2016, 09:13 PM
That's only for Sikhs and Hindus I think ElToro thanks though.

Yeah I've tried the apps and sites. Seems to be a waste of time mostly. I guess I have to cross my fingers and hope that I have a cosmic chance of coincidentally meeting someone.

There are several ways of meeting people:

- through friends
- through hobbies, eg. if you like something, join a club related to it and you'll find someone else who shares the same interest
- by intentionally going out and meeting people at bars and clubs, etc.

Theoretically you can meet people anywhere. You can go to a coffee shop and strike up a conversation with the person sitting next to you. But you need to keep in mind that not everyone is looking to meet people, and certainly not everyone is looking to meet a romantic partner. The best thing to do is learn to be content being alone and go out meeting people to have fun, not with any expectations.

Dating should be fun. I go on a lot of dates that usually don't last more than a date or two, but I have fun in every single one of them.
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Reply #32 - July 03, 2016, 12:18 PM

Quote from: Cato on July 03, 2016, 05:12 AM
However,I can understand how family or cultural pressure can affect one's choice.

Dude, there's nothing to understand. If you're serious about a relationship outside of your family cultural paramaters, then that pressure should not at all affect one's choice. The only cases where I would understand is ones where safety and/or basic well-being could be threatened by someone exercising their own autonomous choice of partner. For most of the people who enter into relationships with the parameter of cultural expediency, especially in Western countries, this isn't the case.

If any other reasons for pressure are affecting your choices, then you're not really committed to serious relationships anyway, and that lack of commitment will also show in whatever "expedient" relationships you enter into as well.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #33 - July 03, 2016, 12:48 PM

I can only speak for myself really, but the way I and some of my friends were raised is that having girlfriends or even female friends(lol) was sinful and vice versa of course.

So that impedes your ability to talk to the opposite sex and treat them equally. Now I would say I have gotten past this thankfully. But it will never get to the point that I feel so confident and entitled that I will simply go out just to meet new people.

Between work, everyday life and my social shyness/awkwardness how could I do that? Firstly approaching someone on a street level is not a thing, end of. Then approaching someone with a bit of context i.e. being in a bookstore is always short lived. It's mostly quips about "Oh I like that book!" etc. I once had a lady on the underground who had these elaborate tattoos on her chest and I struck up a conversation with her but that was awkward as well, especially it being on the London Underground (we have an unspoken rule; don't chat to commuters). So I find it really hard when it's purposeful. But yes it's a lot more easier when you're in a natural social environment. Thing is these opportunities are so far and few in-between.

I also understand appreciating and having fun on each experience; treating it for what it is. But how long can one do this for? It comes down to personality-types and I don't think I want to have short-lived spurts of fun forever.

Furthermore I'm a very private person and so I have a very close and very closed circle of friends (all males). And it's really hard to venture past that circle and/or find new opportunities within or around it. Making "new" friends isn't as simple as giving a thumbs-up to someone you like whilst in school. Having to obey the social script, pay attention to context, analyse someone's mood etc it is rather tedious for us more introverted people (we can't help how God made us!).

Well it's not all that hard really, I just need to break comfort zones and wait for good opportunities. But it's hard to go into a new social setting naked (not literally!) without support.
- Absurdist
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Reply #34 - July 03, 2016, 03:16 PM

You're being a defeatist. I have generalized anxiety and social anxiety. I also have depression. But that doesn't stop me from going out and having fun and meeting people. Because I've learnt that the only thing that stops you from doing what you want is you. Everything else is an obstacle. And obstacles are meant to be overcome.

Just two days ago I was really depressed and in bed all day. Yesterday I went out and partied all day and night and pushed myself to talk to the cutest girl I saw. She was so fucking cute and I was so fucking anxious that my heart was about to explode the whole time I was thinking about talking to her. But once I started talking to her it felt so natural. Yes I was a bit anxious but I just embraced it and let it happen. It's fine to slip up in conversation, to stumble on your words. No one is judging you. And even if they are, so what? Move on.

This is how I met her: I went up to her and said, "Hi, what's your name?" It's that simple.

You can create/change the framework in which you interact with people. I realized this through experience because a lot of people have done it with me. It goes something like this: We're talking casually, sometimes we've known each other for a while, then one day they come up to me and they're like, "I think you're hot/cute." BAM! The context has changed. Now there's very clear communication about attraction. I can either take it or leave it.

The key is to be confident but NOT act entitled. You need to know people's boundaries and comfort levels. You can express yourself but not just force yourself on people.

If you meet someone at a bookstore and you're doing that little chitchat thing, you have the capacity to change the framework of your interaction. It's not difficult. "What's your name, by the way?" That's all it takes. Then from there ask them more questions about themselves.

Honestly, stop finding reasons to not meet people. I'm an introvert. That doesn't stop me from grabbing my social anxiety by the balls and taking control.
- Hsnake
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Reply #35 - July 03, 2016, 03:30 PM

Haha thanks Absurdist. I guess I'm just not idealist at all and a tad bit pessimestic.

I guess there's a part of me that believes love can't bloom in the mundane. And I don't really hold onto disney endings much.

It will take time. Let it.
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Reply #36 - July 03, 2016, 03:35 PM

I'm not talking about love. You're not going to meet someone in a bookstore then fall in love the next day. But that doesn't mean you can't meet someone in a bookstore and eventually it'll turn into love. That's entirely possible. But you can't talk to someone with the expectation of it turning into love. That's not how relationships (of any kind) work. They happen naturally. You need to let go and enjoy the ride and see where it leads you.

If you're too focused on finding love, you need to refocus your mental energy on something else. Build yourself. Find a hobby.
- jrg
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Reply #37 - July 03, 2016, 04:28 PM

Wise words from Absurdist, once again

Has, you're in London. The no talking on the tube made me laugh

Try volunteering. That way you're doing something you enjoy, bigging up your ego as you're doing your bit for the community in one way or another, and you can be pretty sure anyone you meet will also at least be interested in whatever you're doing.

As Absurdist said, if you're out searching for love itself, you'll never find it. Love takes time to develop, and can come from the most unexpected places.

My dad used to run a petrol station and my mum went to work there to save money to buy a horse. They ended up in a relationship, I came along and they've been married ever since. I have 3 younger siblings and my parents marriage is one of the happiest I've known. And dad is significantly older than mum. Not really what either of them would have seen coming.

My wife and I met online (not a dating site) and became friends. We started talking on the phone, eventually we met in person and me married fairly quickly after my conversion to Islam. I'll end the story there as that's a whole other topic that I've already posted about

Don't look for love, look for people who you share your interests. Practice and get confident in interacting (but not flirting) with women of all ages, pay attention to what they say and avoid talking about yourself. See what makes them open up a bit, comment on what they say, then when you do find someone you really would like to get to know better, you'll have the confidence to talk to her and lead an at least semi intelligent conversation.

Thing is, especially to start with, it's easier said than done.
- Hsnake
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Reply #38 - July 03, 2016, 05:24 PM

Thanks jrg for those words.

Like I said before I'm not that hopeless. I know how to talk to women it's just engaging the conversation is like ugh...

But some days I feel really confident so anything can happen! Either that or singlemuslim.com
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Reply #39 - July 03, 2016, 11:28 PM

So, I can tell you from my extensive experience Hsnake, that women on the whole are every bit as disappointing as the other large group of humans, known as men. There's also non cis gendered people, but my once again extensive experience on this planet indicates I shouldn't be too hopeful. Humans pretty much suck.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
- SetMeFree
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Reply #40 - July 03, 2016, 11:51 PM

I would suggest just getting a cat.
- Cato
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Reply #41 - July 04, 2016, 06:19 AM

I echo most of the things Absurdist said. I'm introvert myself but I don't let that become my obstacle. I'm just gonna share one of my interesting stories here.

3 weeks ago,I got so bored and wallowing in my flat then I decided to go out on a Friday night just to avoid boredom. So I went to a night club close to my flat for drinks and a chance to flirt with any bird I can find. I got myself a Long Island Ice Tea and a pack of Marlboro cigarettes then head straight to a smoking section in the club. As I went in,I saw two hot women sitting,drinking and dancing with no any single guy around them. I chilled for a while,sipping till I start feeling the buzz in my head and I told myself fuckit, I'm going to them.

All I did was to ask if they don't mind my company,they were like "sure, you can sit with us" that was the icebreaker for me. All I did was to talk,laugh,dance and drink. I also bought drinks for them just to make it more fun before one of them got wild and nasty saying some funny and crazy stuff .

Believe me,my intention was to get their number but beyond my wildest imagination,I ended up having threesome(for the first time in my life) with them at my place. Of course I wore a good rubber. for that. I didn't even tell them what I do for a living until next morning. Also they didn't leave my place till late evening,it was fun while it lasted

Now I'm not saying if you do what I did,you will land yourself a threesome sex because I was extremely lucky that night. What I'm saying is sometimes it takes a simple effort to talk to a chick and change a framework of your interaction like Absurdist said. You will be surprised with the result you will get.

"I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

"No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
- Absurdist
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Reply #42 - July 04, 2016, 11:18 AM

I love partying alone. I'm a lot more comfortable meeting people that way. Even when I'm with friends I don't like sticking with them the whole time.

Yesterday I went to a dance party and met someone in line and we ended up spending the whole time together.

At one point I went to go to the restroom and get a drink then while in line for the restroom this song came on and I literally ran back to find her and she was like "Oh you're back so soon" and I was like "No I'm not done, but I had to come back for this song" and we ended up dancing so hard to the song... if you know what I mean.

Fuck it was an amazing night.

No threesome, though.
- Cato
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Reply #43 - July 04, 2016, 12:00 PM

I love going to night clubs especially if the DJ is blasting some good music . I just love atmosphere. I didn't know how fun partying can be until I came to Johannesburg last year.

Yoo,I haven't heard Kevin Lyttle for a loong time. I can relate to your experience. Lol

"I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

"No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
- Hsnake
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Reply #44 - July 04, 2016, 01:27 PM

Yeah partying alone is something I've never done. Mainly because I don't really enjoy going out drinking that much unless it's with friends.

And I've made a vow to myself to never drink alone, because I fear an addiction.

I know myself and I shouldn't go down that road. BUT, I may have to turn up soon haha!
- Absurdist
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Reply #45 - July 04, 2016, 02:31 PM

To be honest you sound like you have a lot of anxieties that are preventing you from having fun life experiences. Drinking alone by itself isn't gonna lead to addiction. Alcoholism is usually caused by people trying to use alcohol to cover up something in their life. If you're in a good place and just drinking to have fun, you can stop yourself if you feel you need a break.
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Reply #46 - July 04, 2016, 05:54 PM

Haha, talking in the subway is an absolute no-go in Germany as well
Talk to someone randomly and everybody thinks you are crazy or you want money.

But thanks for sharing your experiences Cato and Absurdist, actually it encouraged me to go partying alone too. I might try.
I actually have never done it before, either.

@Hsnake: lol, I actually made a similar vow myself. Also I never wanted to drink alone or buy alcohol in my fridge. I also feared addiction. But it takes more to get addicted to alcohol. It's like Absurdist said that if you use it as a problem solver and drink it every day that you can might get addicted to it. Nowadays I always have some bottles of beer in my fridge, I don't drink it daily, but it's nice to have if I feel like drinking.
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Reply #47 - July 04, 2016, 07:06 PM

Well, if you want to meet people, the subway is not the first place to look. But there's nothing wrong with striking a casual conversation with the person sitting next to you. I've been to London many times and it has happened to me.

I've also chatted with people on the subway here in Canada a few times. Again, it's not something you can expect anything out of. But that's actually a good thing, because it makes it a good place to practice your social skills since it's a fleeting experience and if you get awkward it'll end soon and you'll never see that person again.
- Ursus
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Reply #48 - July 04, 2016, 08:14 PM

I second Absurdist.

I always end up chatting with someone.

I really am introvert, but I also have a big mouth, and the mouth wins.
You have to push a bit to get Northern Europeans to talk to strangers, but a smile and general good behaviour helps a lot.

I will however abstain from mucus membrane contact and exchange of bodily fluids with strangers. I'm happily married, and apart from that, Ursula is a pretty good shot.
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Reply #49 - July 04, 2016, 08:20 PM

For any guys reading this with high social anxiety. Just throwing this out there from my own personal experience.

If you have high social anxiety don't bother trying to date. Trying to date with high social anxiety is like trying to sing a song in french when you can't even speak the french language fluently.

Its just not going to happen.

You first need to start being social with people in general and the opposite sex in particular if thats what gives you anxiety.

Then once you can socially interact comfortably with new people you have just met then you can move onto the second stage.

Then get a preferably older friend to help you with the specifics of dating advice (how to flirt etc).

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #50 - July 05, 2016, 12:31 AM

Quote from: Ursus on July 04, 2016, 08:14 PM
I will however abstain from mucus membrane contact and exchange of bodily fluids with strangers. I'm happily married, and apart from that, Ursula is a pretty good shot.

She couldn't shoot you if you told her about it, could she?

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #51 - July 05, 2016, 12:33 AM

Quote from: TheDarkRebel on July 04, 2016, 08:20 PM
For any guys reading this with high social anxiety. Just throwing this out there from my own personal experience.

If you have high social anxiety don't bother trying to date. Trying to date with high social anxiety is like trying to sing a song in french when you can't even speak the french language fluently.

Its just not going to happen.

You first need to start being social with people in general and the opposite sex in particular if thats what gives you anxiety.

Then once you can socially interact comfortably with new people you have just met then you can move onto the second stage.

Then get a preferably older friend to help you with the specifics of dating advice (how to flirt etc).

Your advice is really, really solid. I think I took a very similar approach myself.

Until you got to the learning from an older friend and flirting bit. Both are pretty overrated for mine.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #52 - July 05, 2016, 02:32 AM

What do you consider to be high social anxiety?

I have a lot of the symptoms of social anxiety, but I'm not sure how they compare to regular anxiety when it comes to meeting people / dating a new person. Some level of anxiety is normal and might even be beneficial. It gives you the self-awareness to navigate the other person's boundaries. I think it's better than being overconfident and unkowingly overstepping their boundaries and making them uncomfortable.
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Reply #53 - July 05, 2016, 04:49 AM

Quote
What do you consider to be high social anxiety?

The type of anxiety that requires you to build up cougar before even asking a store assistant to help you find something in a store.

The type of anxiety that makes it hard for one to even socialize platonically with either men or women.

If one is having difficult navigating basic social situations its pretty much impossible to navigate a romantic situation which is even more complex .

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #54 - July 05, 2016, 04:51 AM

Quote from: asbie on July 05, 2016, 12:33 AM

Until you got to the learning from an older friend and flirting bit. Both are pretty overrated for mine.

When you can't ask parents for life advice older friends/acquaintances close to your parents age are pretty much the only source you can go for in terms of getting advice from someone who "has been there and one that"

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #55 - July 05, 2016, 04:59 AM

I think there's a big difference between asking a store assistant something and dating, mostly that talking to a store assistant is a form of approach anxiety. My biggest form of social anxiety is approach anxiety, so when I'm asking a stranger for help I get really anxious, but when I meet someone, I'm less anxious once the initial contact is made. That is to say, I have a bigger problem with something as simple as asking someone for help than I do with something as complex as dating. It's not a matter of simple vs. complex, but rather familiarity with someone and building rapport.
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Reply #56 - July 05, 2016, 11:35 AM

I think in societies based on the individual and not the communtiy effort, approach anxiety is inevitable.

Even still I wouldn't say I'm that awkward. I love my privacy, but I can interact with people fine. It's just changing that intent to interact for a certain reason i.e. "she's cute", the hope to date, relationships, have sex etc.

Of course you shouldn't approach it like that, but it's quite hard when you feel a sliver of lust in your mind and loins.

Apparently some research has shown reduced reaction time when men are horny. Maybe that can have an effect on your social interactions? Of course that isn't to say I'm salivating at the mouth to talk to hor girls on the street, that's never happened. But you get the gist.
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Reply #57 - July 05, 2016, 12:27 PM

Quote from: TheDarkRebel on July 05, 2016, 04:51 AM
When you can't ask parents for life advice older friends/acquaintances close to your parents age are pretty much the only source you can go for in terms of getting advice from someone who "has been there and one that"

See I'm not really too keen on someone else's experience in that being particularly helpful to someone anyway. Every person when they first start dating/flirting what have you, is going to make mistakes, and those mistakes will build your experience a hell of a lot better than what some old fogeys from another time and age telling you would give.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #58 - July 05, 2016, 12:32 PM

Quote from: Hsnake on July 05, 2016, 11:35 AM
Even still I wouldn't say I'm that awkward. I love my privacy, but I can interact with people fine. It's just changing that intent to interact for a certain reason i.e. "she's cute", the hope to date, relationships, have sex etc.

Of course you shouldn't approach it like that, but it's quite hard when you feel a sliver of lust in your mind and loins.

There's nothing wrong with approaching it like that. As long as you are respectful of someone else's boundaries and oneself. Trust me, you're far from the only one who feels that way, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #59 - July 05, 2016, 01:13 PM

Quote from: Hsnake on July 05, 2016, 11:35 AM
I think in societies based on the individual and not the communtiy effort, approach anxiety is inevitable.

Even still I wouldn't say I'm that awkward. I love my privacy, but I can interact with people fine. It's just changing that intent to interact for a certain reason i.e. "she's cute", the hope to date, relationships, have sex etc.

The anxiety you're feeling is natural and can be beneficial. You know what you're attempting is on the edge of what's acceptable, so you're naturally very self-aware to increase your empathy and kind of compensate for your raging hormones.

The key is to not allow that self-awareness to hold you back, but also to use it to make sure the other person is comfortable and actually wants what you want. You wanna do things with people, not to them.
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