Malaysian Closet Ex-Muslim

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- euphoristic
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Malaysian Closet Ex-Muslim
OP - July 03, 2016, 09:30 AM

Hey there!

I've only just registered, though I have been following the forums for quite a bit now. It's actually been a contributor as to why I'm no longer Muslim. The content here's helped me come to terms with my beliefs (or lack of beliefs). It's hard being Ex-Muslim though, especially in a predominantly Muslim country. My parents (converts, like me) were never really that religious, but I don't have the guts to tell them I'm no longer Muslim. They're quite progressive, but not completely libertarian. I get to wear what I want, have never been treated unequally in comparison to my brother, etc. Though they don't exactly support things like homosexuality, premarital sex, etc. Which leads me to believe it's risky to come out to them as an atheist. I turn 16 in a couple of months, and I only have a year left until I move away for college, which means I will be free from my parents' scrutiny.

But no matter what, I will never be free from my legal status as a Muslim. Things aren't so bad at the moment, but Islamic Radicalisation is spreading like wildfire, what's more, it's being promoted by the government, albeit indirectly. The state I currently live in is one of the more "liberal" states, though in some parts of Malaysia, "religious police" are a real deal. You could literally be arrested for the stupidest possible things, from being alone with someone of the opposite sex, to not covering up (these laws only apply to Muslims).

What I fear is that this trend of radicalism will spread to where I live. If possible, I hope I won't be in this country any longer. But if that does not happen, I'm torn over whether or not I should try to change my official religion? Atheism is taboo here, so perhaps "no religious affiliation" would be impossible. But I suppose I could work something out? Non-muslims can pretty much go against religion as much as they want, and they'd face no persecutions. There are so far only two known cases of Muslims who were converted as children and have successfully converted out of Islam (legally), and even then, the process was lengthy. Counselling sessions, months of brainwashing, court hearings. But these cases were not in my state, so the laws might be different. Would it be too risky to try once I am a major? Becuase if I do end up stuck in this shithole, I will only be able to marry a Muslim, I will be susceptible to Sharia Law if it is ever implemented, and my future children will have to sit through religious lessons in public schools.
- puzzlelover
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Malaysian Closet Ex-Muslim
Reply #1 - July 03, 2016, 12:29 PM

Welcome to the forum, Euphoristic.
- asbie
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Reply #2 - July 03, 2016, 12:36 PM

Welcome to the forum euphoristic, have a rabbit!

I'm really not sure if it's a good idea to attempt to change your legal religion, as I'm not aware of Malaysian law, but it seems like something to look into if it could be done safely. I hope it doesn't end up being material, however, and that you are able to venture to a place abroad which is more to your liking.

In any case it's impressive that you're aware of all of these things at such a young age, and understand their ramifications. Best of luck to you in your school, and hope to read more of your contributions here!

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
- three
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Reply #3 - July 03, 2016, 05:14 PM

Welcome!

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- Ursus
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Reply #4 - July 03, 2016, 09:04 PM

Welcome

Becoming a martyr will not do you anything good.

Have you considered just to live a secular life as any other non-religious person would, and just accept that the (pretty weird) religious laws of Malaysia labels you as a moslem.... And that's it.
?
- SetMeFree
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Reply #5 - July 03, 2016, 11:53 PM

Welcome
- Ursus
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Reply #6 - July 04, 2016, 06:51 AM

I did a bit of reading up on Malayan law, and it was even more "entertaining" than I remembered:

(Correct me if I'm wrong)

- Religious freedom is written into the constitution, but is sincerely limited
- If you are an ethnic Malay, you are defined to be moslem by law
- if your parents are moslems.... so are you!
- if you are a convert, you are not allowed to leave either.
- Ethnic Malays are not allowed to apostatize, and non-Malayan moslems can theoretically do it... if they can get the permission of a sharia court (and guess how many have gotten that permission).
- Religious affiliation can be seen on your ID-card (this almost calls for "reductio ad Hitlerum")

A wonderful quote from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Malaysia
Quote
Constitutionally (in Article 160 of the Constitution of Malaysia), one of the four tests for entitlement to the privileges accorded to a Malaysian Malay is that one must be a Muslim. The rationale for this is that Islam is considered intrinsic to Malay ethnic identity, which culturally and historically is ruled by a Sultan who is a Muslim. Another test is that one must follow the Malay culture. Controversially, court rulings have assumed that all ethnic Malays must automatically satisfy this constitutional definition of a Malaysian Malay, and have therefore concluded that they must satisfy all of its requirements, so they have to be Muslim.

Malaysia is nominally multi cultural and tolerant, but court rulings regarding religion have a nasty tendency to benefit islam.
Not to mention that anything islam-related is referred to sharia courts, making it pretty easy to guess what the ruling will be.

I would be careful if I was an ex in Malaysia.
- Helaine
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Reply #7 - July 04, 2016, 10:54 AM

Quote
Malaysia is nominally multi cultural and tolerant, but court rulings regarding religion have a nasty tendency to benefit islam.

I don't know why, it seems that people believe that Indonesia/Malaysia is tolerant. There has been a lot of legalized, and even violent discrimination (t)here. Racial, religious discrimination, all kinds of things happen and nobody cares.

Discrimination not being reported = bad journalism/social justice/awareness.
Discrimination not being reported =/= tolerance.
- Ursus
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Reply #8 - July 04, 2016, 11:09 AM

That was why I used "nominally".

As soon as you have a system where you are forced by law to be a member of a certain faith based on your ethnicity, the system can in no way be considered free, secular or tolerant.

But compared to other "moslem majority" countries, I guess it is almost an oasis of tranquility.....
- ElToro
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Reply #9 - July 04, 2016, 06:31 PM

Hi and welcome to the forum

I would also recommend you to keep your legal position as Muslim. In the end it's just a piece of paper and doesn't change the way you feel.
- euphoristic
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Reply #10 - July 05, 2016, 03:20 PM

@puzzlelover Thank you!

@asbie Thank you, for the input and the compliments!

@three Thank you! I'm seeing a lot of that parrot today.

@Ursus I'm not dead-set on changing my official religion, it's just an idea I'm open to considering. IMO the laws are quite a burden and will limit the extent to which I will be able to live my life. It's like a vicious circle, once you get yourself involved, you're never really free. They tell you what to believe in, how to conduct yourself, who to spend your life with - the amount of control the state has over my life is disgusting and anger-evoking. But then again maybe that's just me, I seem like a quiet kid but I rebel (albeit passive-aggressively) when I feel my freedom is being provoked. I mean, I know not to do anything brash, but I have the tendency to think that way.

@SetMeFree "Entertaining".... >.< This religious crap has dictated my life for the past 13 years. And yeah, the laws your listed are roughly what Malaysian ruling on Islam is.

But yeah, all these comments have made me think twice about trying to change my official religion. Thank you c:

@Helaine Ursus is right, compared to other Muslim-majority countries, Malaysia seems pretty benevolent. The better of the worsts, if that makes any sense. The people here do care - there have been so many riots, protests as a call for better government transparency and secularism. But to no avail - the people's voice is stifled by the corrupt in power. The people are labeled as "segregators", peaceful protests are labeled as "derogatory and malicious". So in conclusion, discrimination not being reported - (biased) government oppression of freedom of speech. They publish what they want the people to think - but we still have the internet, the outside world and no matter what, that is one thing they will never rob us off.

@Ursus

I agree, but comparing the bad with the worse makes the situation seem lighter, but it will never make it okay/morally acceptable.

@ElToro If it were just affecting how I felt, I wouldn't be so concerned about it
- jrg
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Reply #11 - July 05, 2016, 04:42 PM

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IMO the laws are quite a burden and will limit the extent to which I will be able to live my life.

I think that may depend which state you're in. If for example you're from Kelantan, perhaps just moving to a less conservative state would make a difference to how you are able to live your day to day life. Selangor could be a good place to move once you've finished study. KL or Klang or Putrajaya or Cyberjaya would all have good job opportunities for someone like yourself who is Malay, yet speaks fluent and flawless English. Don't rush into any decisions you may regret, but can't reverse, later in life.
- Ursus
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Reply #12 - July 05, 2016, 08:45 PM

Quote
I agree, but comparing the bad with the worse makes the situation seem lighter, but it will never make it okay/morally acceptable.

That is true.

But there is little benefit in entering a battle that is lost before it begins..

Revolutions tend to be quick and bloody and will quite often just give a new dictator.
Gradual change is more likely to work in the long run. But it requires a long steady push.
The more educated and the more cosmopolitan people get, the more religion loses its grip. You will see those whose power depends on religion rage against the bad effects of universities and "foreign influence".

Live a good life and work actively, but without making yourself an obvious target, on letting religion have as little influence as possible on how you do it.
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