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 Topic: RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL

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  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     OP - July 05, 2016, 10:37 AM
    Hello every one , I am an ex Muslim and I am now studying and seeing what a religion can do you one's mind and personality when I am out of the religion's myth. I have few things I would like to get your views on :

    1 : Is religion an excuse of all the bad things people do ?

    2 : Is God basically is a fantasy people create around themselves to get motivated for whatever they want to do ?

    3 : Is a religion an idea created by some creative people just to control those who wanted to be controlled ?

    4 : And lastly , is the religion the only thing that can tell us whats good or bad , OR is it the human instinct itself that is capable of determining whats good or bad ?

    All of the above questions are the main idea , if people think I think that will help them get out of their religious mind prisons. thnkyu
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #1 - July 05, 2016, 12:03 PM
    No
    Yes (and a lot of other things)
    Yes (and a lot of other things)
    Absolutely not!


    Welcome aboard
     parrot
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #2 - July 05, 2016, 05:13 PM
    1. No. People will use culture, politics, science, logic, etc, in an attempt to justify anything they want to. When biology was early in a development phase people would use different ideas to justify race superiority/inferiority claims, eugenics, etc. Logic can be cold without empathy as a check. The idea of the greater good can be forced into horrible conclusions as the individual is lost in the statistics of the group. Politics is obvious with the Cold War rhetoric but this even plays out within a system in which parties exist; democrat vs republican.

    2. It is a driving force for humanity, good and bad. For some religion provides a grounding they require, a structure they can not develop or resolve for themselves. For others the idea of rewards in the form of heaven is something they need. For others it is the comforting idea that our loved ones still exist in some form and will one day be reunited with us. There is no one reason people believe nor do people always conform a religion to justify their views. For example some criminals do turn to religion in order to turn their lives around.

    3. No. It is only when religious authorities have been invested with power be it by a government, individual or by the group does this actually happen. I, or any of us, can reject the two later. The former is much harder to resolve.

    4. Religion has always reflected our moral compass at the time and place. Two centuries ago people used religion to justify slavery which most reject in the present. At times such changes are already present prior to our individual existence thus something we are taught as a matter of fact. 
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #3 - July 05, 2016, 09:05 PM
    Hi welcome to the forum  parrot

    My opinion:

    1. No. Some people do bad things because of religion, but not as an excuse.
    2. No. I would even say it's opposite. With religion you put yourself into kind of a prison and limit yourself.
    3. Might be true. Islam could be one of this religions that to set up to control people and get advantages.
    4. No, empathy is what let us differentiate between what is right and what is wrong. But also environmental influences and also ethical values you were taught.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #4 - July 06, 2016, 12:42 AM
    No, Yes, Yes, No, and Welcome! parrot
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #5 - July 06, 2016, 10:28 AM
    Thanks for the replies people ,

    In my view , most of the problems in today's world or in the era before us was because of the religion , because religion wants to get chosen by people , it is arrogant , and it actually tells and order to kill who doesn't accept it. it is forceful , and that is with all the religions , from Christianity to Judaism to Islam.

    I have started to write a blog , in which i will share my experiences , hope you will find loads of new things in it , as where I come from , people actually tell and announce to harm others if they dont believe in what they believe.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #6 - July 06, 2016, 12:46 PM
    The problem is that I have autism.  I do not have a natural empathy.  So I need to know rules about what to say or do so I do not hurt people.  Believing in a god actually helps me not to be the violent bad person that my feelings want me to be. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #7 - July 06, 2016, 01:47 PM
    Quote from: Bee on July 06, 2016, 12:46 PM
    The problem is that I have autism.  I do not have a natural empathy.  So I need to know rules about what to say or do so I do not hurt people.  Believing in a god actually helps me not to be the violent bad person that my feelings want me to be. 


    But why do you need a magic invisible friend to do that?
    Why not just a simple set of rules that you may not understand, but realize are needed to function in society?

    If you take the bible or the koran, they are not exactly fantastic manuals on how to be a nice and friendly person.
    And the moral teachings in those books must be cherry-picked really hard to just resemble a modern mindset.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #8 - July 06, 2016, 04:07 PM
    Quote from: Bee on July 06, 2016, 12:46 PM
    The problem is that I have autism.  I do not have a natural empathy.  So I need to know rules about what to say or do so I do not hurt people.  Believing in a god actually helps me not to be the violent bad person that my feelings want me to be. 


    1. Empathy does not makes one's value judgements correct

    2. Empathy can lead to irrational conclusions. For example many followers of Abrahamic religions reject slavery but ignore the fact that their religion sanctioned it in the past. Their modern views become imposed on to their scripture and the past due to empathy. Yet centuries ago this empathy was based on different views. People would be taught to empathize with their group (nation/believers/etc) but not the outsider (foreigners/unbelievers/etc) Hence why X group could be enslaved but not Y group. Equality was developed not reveled by religion, history shows this fact.

    3. You are granting authority to various positions, figures and text within a religion in order to interpret what "god wants". Why grant any authority to these people? Their opinion is no more importance than anyone else. Their authority is solely derived from accepting that they are experts on god and god's texts while every other religion is wrong. Heck this could be be further expanded to specific groups (sect/domination) within a religion. Why not just embrace inter-subjectivity in general? Everyone else does it but just attaches the label of "god" to give it a sense of authority. Be cautious about your choices if you are unsure or lack an experience to use as a basis. Talk to people, see what they think and evaluated it.

    3a. You could place authority in the wrong people thus make errors. If you do not pool opinions you are isolating yourself from alternative views. This can lead to making poor choices. It could lead to a cult of personality in which whatever authority figures you follow. You can be manipulated as you shy away from making choices yourself.

    4. Your disability is going to require you to think more and be more cautious. This will require more effort from you. There is no easy out without losing some control over your own choices.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #9 - July 06, 2016, 07:10 PM
    The friendliness of some religious groups to newcomers, seekers is what I find.  Only if I ask the wrong questions then they tend to get angry.  I am wary but I crave relationships.  I am really bad at meeting people and keeping friends.  When the churchie people say that I can Jesus to be my friend, I was believing it.  But he turned out to be not such a great friend anyway.  So I go to church and I get stuff (food, free classes on nutrition, exercise, reading books to borrow).  Most of the people are actually good to me. 

    I read about half of the quran so far.  I did not like it.  Too much violent judgement and calls for genocide.  I read the bible about three times through.  There is a tonne of garbage in it that does not make any logical sense plus all the nasty god killing people and calling for genocide.  But the bible just does not make me feel as bad as the the quran does. 

    But basic moral teachings where are they?  Why not just have someone put them is a book instead of all this religion trash?  Can someone sum it up for me?

    I used to go to this church that told me that I had to have a certain hairstyle, wear certain styles of clothing, listen to only Christian music, cannot go to bars, theatres or cinemas, cannot have sex unless married.  Too bad I decided enough of it.  Doing all that did not make me a bad person. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #10 - July 07, 2016, 01:38 AM
    Quote from: Bee on July 06, 2016, 12:46 PM
    The problem is that I have autism.  I do not have a natural empathy.  So I need to know rules about what to say or do so I do not hurt people.  Believing in a god actually helps me not to be the violent bad person that my feelings want me to be.  


    Autism does not mean you do not have a natural empathy. Every autistic person is unique, many have far too much empathy. I think what you are most likely referring to is Theory of Mind. If you are meaning that you lack empathy, I suggest you make absolutely sure after a very thorough introspection that this is correct. Because for decades it has been taught that the autistic lack empathy and this has condemned many people to self-doubt- needlessly. Many clinicians are flat out WRONG about the autistic. Autistics are not clones, with each having the same symptoms or requiring the same accommodations. As they say, if you have met one autistic person, you have met ONE autistic person.
    The rules you are referring to are found in many other places besides religion. I understand the attraction of Islamic structure, but unfortunately it takes it's own rules to extremes. The moral stipulations of Islamic practice when perfectly practiced (extremism) actually reach a place of division of the community. So please do not follow rules that are not ethical, as these do communities more harm than good.
    Find a middle path if you must follow rules, and ensure that the rules you do follow are to the benefit of your community. Screen them yourself.
    Where to find these rules? Rules of community living are far simpler than those mysterious social rules that no one talks about or that contradict each other. Read up on your local laws, and study ethics. Remember the things your mother and teachers instructed you when you were a child (assuming they were not abusive folk). Children's shows and books are a goldmine of the basics, including social skills.
    I understand your frustration.
    The best community to find support in is the autistic community. Look for a local meetup.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #11 - July 07, 2016, 01:42 AM
    Quote from: Bee on July 06, 2016, 07:10 PM
    The friendliness of some religious groups to newcomers, seekers is what I find.  Only if I ask the wrong questions then they tend to get angry.  I am wary but I crave relationships.  I am really bad at meeting people and keeping friends.  When the churchie people say that I can Jesus to be my friend, I was believing it.  But he turned out to be not such a great friend anyway.  So I go to church and I get stuff (food, free classes on nutrition, exercise, reading books to borrow).  Most of the people are actually good to me. 

    I read about half of the quran so far.  I did not like it.  Too much violent judgement and calls for genocide.  I read the bible about three times through.  There is a tonne of garbage in it that does not make any logical sense plus all the nasty god killing people and calling for genocide.  But the bible just does not make me feel as bad as the the quran does. 

    But basic moral teachings where are they?  Why not just have someone put them is a book instead of all this religion trash?  Can someone sum it up for me?

    I used to go to this church that told me that I had to have a certain hairstyle, wear certain styles of clothing, listen to only Christian music, cannot go to bars, theatres or cinemas, cannot have sex unless married.  Too bad I decided enough of it.  Doing all that did not make me a bad person. 



    I think greed is the motivator for all the religious nonsense. Whoever started these religions probably gained much with their  followers hanging onto their every word.
    There has to be a guide to morality that is not religious. I will see what I can find.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #12 - July 07, 2016, 02:15 AM
    https://www.brown.edu/academics/science-and-technology-studies/framework-making-ethical-decisions

    Maybe this is of some help?
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #13 - July 10, 2016, 08:06 PM
    Quote from: Aun on July 05, 2016, 10:37 AM
    1 : Is religion an excuse of all the bad things people do ?

    No, but many people who wish to do bad things find the inherent obscurity within religious texts simple to turn into support for their deeds.

    Quote from: Aun on July 05, 2016, 10:37 AM
    2 : Is God basically is a fantasy people create around themselves to get motivated for whatever they want to do ?

    Sort of. God is a fantasy people create to cope with a world they do not understand, or refuse to accept. If something good happens, then thank God. If something bad happens, then it's a test from God. Not just, y'know, randomness.

    Quote from: Aun on July 05, 2016, 10:37 AM
    3 : Is a religion an idea created by some creative people just to control those who wanted to be controlled ?

    Yes.

    Quote from: Aun on July 05, 2016, 10:37 AM
    4 : And lastly , is the religion the only thing that can tell us whats good or bad , OR is it the human instinct itself that is capable of determining whats good or bad ?

    Social evolution tells us what's good and bad. The way the human race has evolved from our tribal / herd origins has taught many of us to respect each other's lives and property. The downside of which is that it makes it easy to consider another group as an opposing tribe or herd, and therefore makes it easier to dehumanise them and take their lives or property. We didn't need God for that 001_tongue
    The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #14 - July 21, 2016, 03:38 PM
    Today because of this religion shit , there are loads of problems in this world which are beyond anyone's control. why can't people just forget the religion and become free of all these myths and all the hatred that religion give.

    At the end I would say , this world is a far better place without the religion , Islam , Christianity , Judaism , or anything else.
  • RELIGION IS A MIND CONTROL
     Reply #15 - July 21, 2016, 03:49 PM
    Many religion practice indoctrination of the youth. States would have to make this practice illegal. This will not happen anytime soon.
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