Confused One

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- Northern_Lights
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Confused One
OP - July 07, 2016, 10:13 AM

Hi everyone.
I'm new here and I'm basically confused
I was born Muslim, but I don't know what I am now. I've been lurking on this forum for a while now and thus have begun to question some things.
And because of my crippling fear, I make excuses for some of my doubts, or some I just push aside. This got me thinking that if Islam wasn't true then what is true? I am not atheist coz I can't deny God because I can't get my head around how the universe came out of nothing. And I can't fathom how order came out of disorder? Everything can't be coincidence?....So what am I missing?
And I can't become a follower or any other religion because of the polytheistic/anthropomorphic concept of God.
So why am I beginning to question some of the things?
If Islam is not true, then the only position I could possibly take is that no religion is and there is no God, but I can't even prove that...maybe because I'm so ignorant of the intricacies of atheism?

So what is it that I am missing?
....someone please help :(
- Absurdist
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Confused One
Reply #1 - July 07, 2016, 11:25 AM

Welcome.

You sound like an agnostic.

There's nothing to prove. You can't prove the lack of existence of something. The burden of proof falls on the person making the positive claim.
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Confused One
Reply #2 - July 07, 2016, 07:51 PM

Welcome!
- Ursus
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Reply #3 - July 07, 2016, 08:29 PM

Welcome

If it helps you, you can call the quantum fluctuation (or whatever it was) that started time and space "god".

But that is only because we miss that bit of data.
From a fraction of a second after the "Big Bang", we actually have very good models, and none of them need a god to make the numbers add up.

Men created gods in their own picture, and that is why the Abrahamic jehova/god/allah is such a mean misogynistic bastard.
That was how you ran the shop in the Middle East in the bronze age and iron age, and of course that was what the god modeled on that would be like.

(This goes for any religion)

Atheism is simply the standpoint of: "nope, There is no reason for me to believe that there are any gods".
There is no manual for atheism nor any unified teachings.

I do not need a god to threaten me, to be kind and just to other people.
I do not need a god to make me treat the environment responsibly. (Contrary to having had it given by god to rule as I see fit).
I do not need a fairy tale about paradise. It would be nice, but why should a quantum fluctuation do that? It makes me take this life pretty serious!
I do not need to fill my day with arcane rituals reminiscing of obsessive compulsive disorder, just to please my invisible friend ( who will otherwise torture me forever ).
I do not have to take a bunch of fools in outdated clothing and silly beards ( who have the craziest ideas about everything ) seriously.

Atheism is about facing life and reality.
For a lot of people it is a lot easier to just live a pleasant lie.
- SilentMancunian
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Confused One
Reply #4 - July 07, 2016, 10:13 PM

Welcome to the forum, Northern_Lights.

I agree with Absurdist, you are clearly an Agnostic. Whether that is an Agnostic Theist/Muslim or Agnostic Atheist is for you to determine.

The confusion you 're going through is also reminiscent of an identity crisis, which is common among people who are transitioning out of an identity (being a Muslim) and have not attained a new identity which they expect themselves to have (in your case, being an Atheist). You seem to be at the exploring stage of your identity crisis, which is a good thing as you're at least being active in trying to discover what you are.

The problem you seem to be going through is with the idea of God (Creator) and how the world came to be without the existence of a God. You are also equating Islam and God, if one is true/false so is the other, which is not valid in all cases. It is possible to believe that God exists in reality and Islam to be false, since it cannot be proven that Muhammad was actually preaching the word of God. It is also possible to believe in God and not to be a member of any religion, so if you believe in a Creator you are best looking into different perceptions of a Creator (Atheism,Deism, Pantheism etc) and seeing which view resonates with you the most.

Atheism is just the lack of belief in God - it is a position which states that God only exist in the mind, and not reality. It can be quite difficult to understand the world from an Atheistic perpective when rejecting Islam, as it is possible that you are still seeing the world through the eyes of a believer. You need to try let go of what you were taught while being a Muslim and approach, with an open mind, the issue of whether a Creator is needed for our existence or not.

God is not Falsifiable. We can only hold a position on whether God exist in the Mind or Reality, and learn to be content with the uncertainty of not knowing whether you're right or not.

Even though I hadn't believed God existed, it took me a year or so to comes to terms with the fact that I was Atheist after leaving Islam. This was because I was brought up in an environment where the idea of God not existing was out of the question and anyone who disbelieves in God is blind/ignorant and should be rejected. When I came out to my Muslim friends at university, about not being a Muslim, I was hesistant in defining what I was. I had not fully explored what my beliefs were on a variety of issues including God. The only thing I knew was that I no longer see myself as being a Muslim, and haven't done so for many years, so I eventually took the position of an Agnostic Deist (the possibility of a Creator who doesn't take part in influencing the inhabitants of Earth) solely because I didn't want to be seen in a negative light, as well as, softening the impact it had on the Muslim friends I had told. Only when I took some time to explore my beliefs in isolation did I accept my lack of belief in God and became more confident in myself.

Before exploring the God issue in depth, be honest with yourself in why you don't identify as being a Muslim and what was the initial thing that caused you to doubt your faith. You don't need to have an all-encompassing reason to not believe, if you don't feel that the religion you were brought up in no longer your 'truth' then that is good enough. By being born in a Muslim family, you accepted that you were a Muslim because your family identified you as being one, you never reasoned whether Islam was the 'truth' it was just something that you had to accept.

It can be easy to fall down the path of needing to have a 'truth' of what the world is, which is down to the egotistical nature of religion/Islam which claims to have the 'answers' to the origins and purpose of our existence. To overcome this you have to accept that it is only you who can determine what your Life's purpose is and that you don't need to have 'answers' to everything to live a normal life.
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Confused One
Reply #5 - July 08, 2016, 01:05 AM

Welcome!

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- Hsnake
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Confused One
Reply #6 - July 08, 2016, 11:04 AM

Welcome Northern!
- ElToro
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Confused One
Reply #7 - July 08, 2016, 11:16 AM

Welcome Northern Lights

Are you from Scandinavia by any chance (because of your nickname)?

Maybe you can talk to Hassan, he is an agnostic Muslim.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28556.0
- Joseph
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Confused One
Reply #8 - July 11, 2016, 01:49 AM

Quote from: Northern_Lights on July 07, 2016, 10:13 AM
So why am I beginning to question some of the things? If Islam is not true, then the only position I could possibly take is that no religion is and there is no God, but I can't even prove that...

I’m not sure how the term, religion, is used in your post. Faith and religion are often used interchangeably but there is difference. Faith is personal belief; existing independently of religion, and whether shared with anyone or anyone else holds same belief.

In the following my assumptions may be way off base, but I’m basing it on your objections and default to Islamic concept, No where do you state your personal concept of God.

Muslims holding to faith after leaving religion, usually maintain some degree of the Islamic concept of God. Imo, negative theology of Islam approaches agnosticism to as near it gets. Take away Islamic doctrine of only Allah’s will can be known, then agnosticism is complete. Not much remains for Muslims like yourself, who are still hinged to Islam apophasis, and understandably they find themselves on sinking ground. Left with only a god that is immobile and dissimilar to man, then appears what is being worshipped is not much more than a watermelon.

Just the same, given your self-imposed conditions, then it seems your inclination is agnosticism.

Joseph
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Confused One
Reply #9 - July 20, 2016, 12:37 PM

I kind of know what you feel like, i left islam two years ago(still in the closet), but when i think about the universe and the idea that it all came from nothing, i cant make sense of it.

The way i deal with it is two fold, firstly i tell myself that just being alive on this rock does not mean we are here for a reason(i found this one difficult as first)

and secondly, its still possible that God exists and it(God) is not aware of our existence, or maybe God is aware of our existence but doesnt care, or doesnt have the ability to intervene in our individual lives.

I often think of it like a scientist growing bacteria on a petri dish. The bacteria might look at their environment and think we are living in this closed system protected from the outiside world, with just the right nurtrients and conditions to survive. But just because that is true, it does not folllow that their creator cares about each individual bacteria, or even knows that they exist. The scientist may be testing effect of adding an acid to a jelly and grew the bacteria in a corner of the petri dish without realising.

A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
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Confused One
Reply #10 - July 20, 2016, 02:58 PM

Welcome to the forum Northern_Lights, have a rabbit!

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
- envixer
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Confused One
Reply #11 - July 20, 2016, 04:34 PM

Hi, Northern Lights,

In my opinion, the cause of the Big Bang is most likely to have been the end of the universe that came before...

Whatever caused the universe to come into existence in the first place, however, whether a god or not, is not interested in short lived creatures on a random blue planet orbiting a random star...

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering
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Confused One
Reply #12 - August 13, 2016, 01:55 AM

Universe came from nothing.
It is that simple.
your evolutionary mind is still not capable of understanding cosmic workings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmBWmpxBWCw

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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Confused One
Reply #13 - August 13, 2016, 01:58 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R16cXQBndQ

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- abidali2018240
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Confused One
Reply #14 - August 13, 2016, 01:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEvWkYF6ppA

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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Confused One
Reply #15 - August 13, 2016, 02:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIDmzLfk0K0

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- abidali2018240
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Confused One
Reply #16 - August 13, 2016, 02:05 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urEFoaI1iY

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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Confused One
Reply #17 - August 13, 2016, 10:31 AM

Welcome northern_lights!

Leaving Islam doesn't mean you have to be atheist. Like the others said, you can be agnostic, or you can find another set of beliefs that suit you (and science) more.
Whatever you do, be honest to yourself with your beliefs.

Also, if anything, disorder came out of order (2nd law of thermodynamics states that disorder [entropy] must increase with time ... entropy is a crazy concept but that's what keeps science so interesting )

Many of us have experienced the crippling fear you experience when we first questioned Islam. I hope that as you do more research into science and religion things will become clearer and that fear will disappear.
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