After leaving Islam some things are still unclear

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- afghan hassan
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
OP - July 13, 2016, 06:55 AM

Hey guys, I left Islam a few months ago and at first most things in Hadith and Tafsir showed evidence of this religion being man made convenient for Mohammad.

We know he likes to have sex a lot by keeping females sex slaves and going house to house throughout the same night having sex with many wives. He also gets caught from Aisha where he was having sex with Maryam the Coptic woman and a convenient Quran verse is revealed telling him to not forbid himself from her when he promises Aisha he will not sleep with her anymore (this can not be a convenient coincidence because he tries to reason with his wife but then God instructs Mohammad to continue sleeping with women he did not marry, God does not try to help the situation)

So after this it is pretty obvious he cared more about having sex than the feelings of his wife when she was hurt that he would have sex with woman who he was not even married to (pretty low bar). So this is showcasing his selfishness, why then did he say things like, when you approach your wives in bed, be kind and satisfy their sexual needs before your own?

He seems like a man of his time, who does not really care about their feelings but why would he concern himself with their sexual satisfaction? Why would he give a damn about their sexual release if he does not care about their feelings, this is not consistent with him being selfish (he wants to sleep around, they can not, but he says it is very important to please your wives??)

Why is this, I hope someone can give me a reasonable answer even if it seems like a silly question to some

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- asbie
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #1 - July 13, 2016, 09:56 AM

Because he had a certain level of humanity and compassion. This is not at all conflicting with the idea that he could have completely made up the whole talking to God thing.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

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- envixer
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #2 - July 13, 2016, 02:02 PM

Because he lived in a society that saw slaves as property. Because he lived in a society that saw women as less than men.

Because he wanted what he wanted, and wanted it given willingly.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering
- afghan hassan
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #3 - July 13, 2016, 05:24 PM

Asbie you are right, Hitler wasn't a completely evil person either, even he had some good in him but he had way more bad shit insane than compassionate and accepting. So that makes sense, from our perspective he was a dick but from his he was a great person.

Envixer, if he saw women as less than men why would he instruct men to please their wives before ejaculating themselves?

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- envixer
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Reply #4 - July 13, 2016, 05:58 PM

He also ruled that, as witnesses to a crime, a man is worth two women...

Maybe he liked it that way... I know I do

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering
- yeezevee
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Reply #5 - July 13, 2016, 06:52 PM

Quote from: envixer on July 13, 2016, 05:58 PM
He also ruled that, as witnesses to a crime, a man is worth two women...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyMfZCNahds

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- afghan hassan
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #6 - July 13, 2016, 06:59 PM

Envixer, that is the weird part, sometimes he thinks women are idiots and need to be reminded in court so 2 women per 1 men, but he still thinks tehy have urges.

Eureka!!!! He is a man from his time who thinks men are smarter than women, but he still thinks women enjoy sex and deserve to orgasm and understand after men ejaculate they go limp (as a sex addict he has lots of experience with that ) but he thinks men need way sex more than women.

So he was definitely a man of his time, but he thought he was moral because at the time he did have some consideration for women, maybe progressive for his time but sure as hell not a role model today.

Muslims today can quote SOME nice shit from Mohammad but what they fail to understand is that he was not TOTALLY immoral by our progressive society, I can admit he had some nice parts to his personality but he was an ass too, they think he is a great person but we are missing something in our understanding of the said wisdom in their holy book

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- Islamophobigot
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Reply #7 - July 13, 2016, 09:51 PM

@envixer, @afghan hassan:

A question for the two of you - you must be familiar with these two dudes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

You would know the stories are over THOUSAND years older than that of mo. Sure 'gibreel' didn't reveal anything to these guys from anything that is mentioned in their stories but many today still believe both of them gained 'major knowledge' in their middle age, an event one might say is similar to a claim something invisible sat (and perhaps shat) on one's shoulder in a cave and made sounds that said it all for all of mankind forever!

So judging by today's progressive society and keeping in mind everything that's going in the world with possible human causes of climate change threatening everything, extinction of plant and other forms of life, widening income disparities, vast geographic regions in turmoil, and hunger and so forth, how would the lives of two guys in the above Wikipedia links compare, especially in their post-enlightenment phase? Not particularly impressive nor noteworthy, right, these two guys!? Until and unless the fear of the devil and eternal hell-fire and the immediate spectre of the wielded sword is swirling over one's head, who would find anything good in their stories or follow the above two 'desi' guys, right?

Now try to answer what 'wisdom in their holy book' is apart from things known to mankind, even more than a thousand years earlier?

Cheers,
- envixer
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Reply #8 - July 14, 2016, 01:43 PM

The morality of modern western law, if not the execution (in many cases) surpasses the morality of all the holy books I've read.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering
- afghan hassan
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #9 - July 14, 2016, 04:17 PM

^ Exactly secular law is:
-Based on EVIDENCE, not this is the law because I am the chosen one
-If the laws are not moral, over time they can be CHANGED, they are not static like religious laws

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- Albatheist
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #10 - July 14, 2016, 07:38 PM

Well first of all we have to understand that Muhammad did not write Quran. His friends did about 20 years after his death based on apparently his words that they memorized. I cannot memorize what I had for breakfast and let alone the words of someone 20 years after his death. So it is normal for a few people to have different opinions. One of the authors definitely had problems with his wife(s).

Another thing we have to understand is that Muhammad was a war general, nothing else. Before that he was a shepherd. He was not super wise either, but he probably had experience and some wise words...

As for women, Quran treats them like second class people, even animals deserve more respect than women according to Quran, sadly. "Respect them but you can beat them". "You can marry as many as you want if your previous wives agree" (and we all know what would happen to them if they disagreed...its bs tbh.
- afghan hassan
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #11 - July 14, 2016, 07:45 PM

But Albatheist I thought there was a cap of 4 wives, how can they marry as many as they want?

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- three
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #12 - July 15, 2016, 01:46 AM

He might be referring to the Prophet, who did not have any sort of limit on the number of wives or concubines.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- Bee
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #13 - July 15, 2016, 01:43 PM

Ever meet a psychopath? They pretend to care about you. They know how to fake emotions. They will manipulate you as long as you are useful to them. If you have ever been in any relationship with such a person you know what their victims will put up with. Maybe look up traits of a psychopath.

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- yeezevee
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After leaving Islam some things are still unclear
Reply #14 - July 15, 2016, 02:30 PM

Quote from: Bee on July 15, 2016, 01:43 PM
Ever meet a psychopath? They pretend to care about you. They know how to fake emotions. They will manipulate you as long as you are useful to them. If you have ever been in any relationship with such a person you know what their victims will put up with. Maybe look up traits of a psychopath.

well psychos and psychopath that use fake emotions and manipulate people are there in every faith., But it is true when it comes to these dawa idiots they do act very nice towards non-Muslim folks expecting that they too start bending their ass up to sky and head in to that Arabian sands..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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