Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 09:01 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 08:53 AM

New Britain
Yesterday at 08:17 AM

Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.

 (Read 5771 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     OP - July 15, 2016, 03:14 PM

    Short Khutbah today.

    I've run out of words to express my feelings about terrorist attacks such the one in Nice last night. My condolences to the victims doesn't seem enough. The world seems so very dark. But we have to find a way of defeating the lunatics. Yes there are many ingredients that go into making a human being commit such a horrific slaughter of innocent people, and yes I know these people latch on to extremism as a way of vindicating their own hate, twisted world view and mental disorder, but let us as Muslims at least do our bit in confronting one of the ingredients, which is without doubt the exclusivist, supremacist & dehumanising ideology that "It's my way or the highway" - "I'm right you're wrong - so go to Hell!" The misfits, unstable and hate-filled losers find such a simplistic supremacist ideology exactly what they need to justify and give expression to the sickness in their soul. There is no place for exclusivist religion in the 21st century. You cannot live in peace with your fellow man in the pluralistic world of today if you truly believe that your work colleague, neighbour or shop assistant deserves to be eternally tortured in Hell for not believing as you do.

    http://agnosticmuslimkhutbahs.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/attack-in-nice-france.html
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #1 - July 16, 2016, 01:36 AM

     Afro
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #2 - July 16, 2016, 05:28 PM

    @Hassan,

    May Allah guide you on the right path and help you succeed in all your endeavors especially where you say, "we have to find a way of defeating the lunatics."

    Please note at some point you will have to ask yourself some fundamental questions again and review what "islamophobes" and "bigots" like me are finding:

    1.  It is not a recent phenomena for followers of islam to consider it "exclusivist and supremacist" and perfect and then indulge in actions that are most "dehumanising".  It was there right from the beginning, thus the parables of Asma Bint Marwan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan) and the Banu Qurayza massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza) and countless others that have been woven into the fabric which strive to inform all of the fate that befalls anyone who even remotely stands in the way.  Wikipedia link states, "Antonio Elorza, historian and professor at Complutense University of Madrid, reviews Asma's execution and similar cases and suggests that eliminating political opponents by any and all means possible, was common practice during Muhammad's time. Elorza asserts that the psychological effect of such actions by Mohammad cannot be ignored when studying the background of terrorism in Islam. [ELORZA, Antonio. Terrorismo y religión. Letras Libres. Mayo 2005]"

    2.  Overwhelming opinion has been expressed islam and the so-called story of the revelation by gibreel to mo brought nothing spiritually or morally new to humanity, so the only "spinning" the radical types in 6th century to 8th century Arabia (who over the course of 200 years 'perfected' the most oppressive theocratic, imperialistic system that Hitler and Goebbels and their ilk would have loved to duplicate) could do to create their edifice of islam was to say everyone else is corrupt and they are all straying down the wrong path.  All they could say is here's a "cleaned" up version given to a willing stooge from the ultimate authority, it is perfect, it has everything you would ever need.  Few would "buy it", why would they -  most of mankind always has and will have different, different pursuits, desires, and endeavors than what anyone write in a book!  The only recourse to create large numbers of followers was force.  And they knew it was the ultimate pyramid system (Bernie Madoff too missed on many ideas from this ideology!): keep adding followers or it all falls apart.

    3.  So I contend dehumanizing ideology has been part and parcel of whole conversion and expansion process.  Verse after verse in quran, saying after saying in the hadith, most of sunnah imply non-believers are inhuman or worse.  Outside of the Old Testament and the Nazi manifesto, nothing in recorded history comes even remotely close to the kind of dehumanization of "others" I see in islam.

    4.  There has been a preponderance of spirituality uplifting, morally universal and eternal (applicable to all time), and scientifically advancing forms of thought that has arisen out of other geographies, all centuries before something invisible did something on someone's shoulder in a cave.  Keep in mind the idiom, "preacher, practice what you preach" and now take a close look at the concept of non-violence espoused by Mahavira and Gautama Buddha and how they lived their lives post-enlightenment, or contemplate on the practice of yoga and inform us here what about it is not secular and but research how it is helping countless humans today, or the invention of zero and whether this forum would even be possible without that.  islam and its practioners have so forcefully NEGATEd all of it and they have been at it since bin qasim reached Sindh in 8th century A.D.  Sacking and killing of countless monks at Nalanda University - http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/03/24/forced-conversion-to-islam/ - being only one of the major highlights.  Do you imagine (if you try to vsiualize in mind today) the scenery at Nalana during the sacking would have oh-so-benign and halaal compared to what happened to the folks who got mowed down at Nice a couple of days ago and which affected you so, do you Hassan?  As yourself why are works such as the following suppressed and ignored in all muslim-majority environments instead of being required reading for all present-day muslims: https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Jihad-Conversion-Imperialism-Slavery/dp/1440118469?

    5.  There have been some attempts, take Akbar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din-i_Ilahi) the second ruler of the Mughals, to try to change the trajectory and the discourse.  Only to be followed by a son and grandson, taught well by knowledgeable ones of their faith, who are quickly able to undo any advancement and go back to the salaafi thought: up comes Fatawa-e-Alamgiri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatawa-e-Alamgiri.  Read the fatwa put together supposedly by "500 experts in Islamic jurisprudence (Faqīh), 300 from the South Asia, 100 from Iraq and 100 from the Hejaz (Saudi Arabia). Their work over years, resulted in an Islamic code of law for South Asia."  Read it today and you will find ISIS going jealous of it (even they failed to think it all through); Nazis would have loved to have had the time of absorb all the apartheid thought in the fatwa.  Note the year was around 1700 A.D., ummah and uluma had more than 1,000 years to digest all of gibreel's whisperings, no US and no Israel and no E.U. around to cause any pain to muslims; islam was reigning supreme, and these are the gems of thought they came up with:
      a)  "two or more Muslims, or persons subject to Muslims, who enter a non-Muslim controlled territory for the purpose of pillage, and thus seize some   property of the inhabitants there, and bring it back into the Muslim territory, that property would be legally theirs.[17]
      b) the right of Muslims to purchase and own slaves,[18]
      c) no inheritance rights for slaves,[19]
      d) the testimony of all slaves was inadmissible in a court of law[20]
      e) slaves require permission of the master before they can marry,[21]
      f) a unmarried Muslim may marry a slave girl he owns but a Muslim married to a Muslim woman may not marry a slave girl,[22]
    conditions under which the slaves may be emancipated partially or fully[23]"

    The challenge you are facing, Hassan, is "islam is the motherlode of bad ideas", as stated by Sam Harris.

    If you are truly concerned about humanity, or perhaps the sanctity of all forms of life, trying putting together a 1,400 year "truth and reconciliation" process, similar to the one by the great Nelson Mandela in South Africa, following which you will find the entire edifice of islam vaporize: belief in a prophet, any prophet, let alone the seal; idea that there can be a final revelation of all knowledge for all of mankind; apostasy and blasphemy; blind adherence to god's divine law (sharia) and complete rejection of so-called man-made laws (especially those of West or eastern philosophies); the conviction of having the "license to kill" non-believers or enemies of islam, fear of hell, rewards of jannat, etc. will all be totally shredded.   Anything less than you won't even remotely come close to Akbar and the chances are your own progeny can undo any progress like aurangzeb of the mughals did.

    Best wishes,
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #3 - July 16, 2016, 05:51 PM

    @Hassan,

    May Allah guide you on the right path and help you succeed in all your endeavors especially where you say, "we have to find a way of defeating the lunatics."

    Please note at some point you will have to ask yourself some fundamental questions again and review what "islamophobes" and "bigots" like me are finding:

    1.  It is not a recent phenomena for followers of islam to consider it "exclusivist and supremacist" and perfect and then indulge in actions that are most "dehumanising".  It was there right from the beginning, thus the parables of Asma Bint Marwan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan) and the Banu Qurayza massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza) and countless others that have been woven into the fabric which strive to inform all of the fate that befalls anyone who even remotely stands in the way.  Wikipedia link states, "Antonio Elorza, historian and professor at Complutense University of Madrid, reviews Asma's execution and similar cases and suggests that eliminating political opponents by any and all means possible, was common practice during Muhammad's time. Elorza asserts that the psychological effect of such actions by Mohammad cannot be ignored when studying the background of terrorism in Islam. [ELORZA, Antonio. Terrorismo y religión. Letras Libres. Mayo 2005]"

    2.  Overwhelming opinion has been expressed islam and the so-called story of the revelation by gibreel to mo brought nothing spiritually or morally new to humanity, so the only "spinning" the radical types in 6th century to 8th century Arabia (who over the course of 200 years 'perfected' the most oppressive theocratic, imperialistic system that Hitler and Goebbels and their ilk would have loved to duplicate) could do to create their edifice of islam was to say everyone else is corrupt and they are all straying down the wrong path.  All they could say is here's a "cleaned" up version given to a willing stooge from the ultimate authority, it is perfect, it has everything you would ever need.  Few would "buy it", why would they -  most of mankind always has and will have different, different pursuits, desires, and endeavors than what anyone write in a book!  The only recourse to create large numbers of followers was force.  And they knew it was the ultimate pyramid system (Bernie Madoff too missed on many ideas from this ideology!): keep adding followers or it all falls apart.

    3.  So I contend dehumanizing ideology has been part and parcel of whole conversion and expansion process.  Verse after verse in quran, saying after saying in the hadith, most of sunnah imply non-believers are inhuman or worse.  Outside of the Old Testament and the Nazi manifesto, nothing in recorded history comes even remotely close to the kind of dehumanization of "others" I see in islam.

    4.  There has been a preponderance of spirituality uplifting, morally universal and eternal (applicable to all time), and scientifically advancing forms of thought that has arisen out of other geographies, all centuries before something invisible did something on someone's shoulder in a cave.  Keep in mind the idiom, "preacher, practice what you preach" and now take a close look at the concept of non-violence espoused by Mahavira and Gautama Buddha and how they lived their lives post-enlightenment, or contemplate on the practice of yoga and inform us here what about it is not secular and but research how it is helping countless humans today, or the invention of zero and whether this forum would even be possible without that.  islam and its practioners have so forcefully NEGATEd all of it and they have been at it since bin qasim reached Sindh in 8th century A.D.  Sacking and killing of countless monks at Nalanda University - http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/03/24/forced-conversion-to-islam/ - being only one of the major highlights.  Do you imagine (if you try to vsiualize in mind today) the scenery at Nalana during the sacking would have oh-so-benign and halaal compared to what happened to the folks who got mowed down at Nice a couple of days ago and which affected you so, do you Hassan?  As yourself why are works such as the following suppressed and ignored in all muslim-majority environments instead of being required reading for all present-day muslims: https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Jihad-Conversion-Imperialism-Slavery/dp/1440118469?

    5.  There have been some attempts, take Akbar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din-i_Ilahi) the second ruler of the Mughals, to try to change the trajectory and the discourse.  Only to be followed by a son and grandson, taught well by knowledgeable ones of their faith, who are quickly able to undo any advancement and go back to the salaafi thought: up comes Fatawa-e-Alamgiri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatawa-e-Alamgiri.  Read the fatwa put together supposedly by "500 experts in Islamic jurisprudence (Faqīh), 300 from the South Asia, 100 from Iraq and 100 from the Hejaz (Saudi Arabia). Their work over years, resulted in an Islamic code of law for South Asia."  Read it today and you will find ISIS going jealous of it (even they failed to think it all through); Nazis would have loved to have had the time of absorb all the apartheid thought in the fatwa.  Note the year was around 1700 A.D., ummah and uluma had more than 1,000 years to digest all of gibreel's whisperings, no US and no Israel and no E.U. around to cause any pain to muslims; islam was reigning supreme, and these are the gems of thought they came up with:
      a)  "two or more Muslims, or persons subject to Muslims, who enter a non-Muslim controlled territory for the purpose of pillage, and thus seize some   property of the inhabitants there, and bring it back into the Muslim territory, that property would be legally theirs.[17]
      b) the right of Muslims to purchase and own slaves,[18]
      c) no inheritance rights for slaves,[19]
      d) the testimony of all slaves was inadmissible in a court of law[20]
      e) slaves require permission of the master before they can marry,[21]
      f) a unmarried Muslim may marry a slave girl he owns but a Muslim married to a Muslim woman may not marry a slave girl,[22]
    conditions under which the slaves may be emancipated partially or fully[23]"

    The challenge you are facing, Hassan, is "islam is the motherlode of bad ideas", as stated by Sam Harris.

    If you are truly concerned about humanity, or perhaps the sanctity of all forms of life, trying putting together a 1,400 year "truth and reconciliation" process, similar to the one by the great Nelson Mandela in South Africa, following which you will find the entire edifice of islam vaporize: belief in a prophet, any prophet, let alone the seal; idea that there can be a final revelation of all knowledge for all of mankind; apostasy and blasphemy; blind adherence to god's divine law (sharia) and complete rejection of so-called man-made laws (especially those of West or eastern philosophies); the conviction of having the "license to kill" non-believers or enemies of islam, fear of hell, rewards of jannat, etc. will all be totally shredded.   Anything less than you won't even remotely come close to Akbar and the chances are your own progeny can undo any progress like aurangzeb of the mughals did.

    Best wishes,

    JESUS............  SATAN.....  Gibril ..   there is a spirit    the secrets of Tawrat, Zabur and Injil

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdUIqKJyD0Q

    it appears this spirit is writing in the name of  Islamophobigot  .. let me read that carefully

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #4 - July 16, 2016, 07:32 PM

    This guy comes in, tells us he has absolutely no experience with Islam, then spews some stereotypical bullshit about how Islamic civilization hasn't contributed anything to the world. He probably thinks he's smart, too. Like he's cracked the code of Islam.

    I don't think you actually spent much time figuring out who we are and what we believe in if you think your run-down-the-mill rightist views are welcome here.

    The fact that you embrace the titles "Islamophobe" and "bigot" are quite telling.

    I haven't responded to anything you've said before now because you're really not worth responding to. Go back to wikiislam or jihadwatch or wherever else you mentally jerk off to.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #5 - July 16, 2016, 08:05 PM

    Islamophobigot, was that all your research/writing or did you copy/paste it from somewhere else? :O
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #6 - July 16, 2016, 09:26 PM

    @Hassan...
    Best wishes,


    kthanksbye
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #7 - July 16, 2016, 10:03 PM

    This guy writes like M. A. Khan.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #8 - July 17, 2016, 02:15 AM

    This guy writes like M. A. Khan.

    no...  i know  M. A. Khan and his work.,

     He has done thorough job of debunking Islam and Islamic mind set of 20th/21st century  by using hadith and some selective  verses of Quran..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #9 - July 17, 2016, 03:27 AM

    ..
    it appears this spirit is writing in the name of  Islamophobigot  .. let me read that carefully


    @yeezevee,

    That video is funny indeed! Cheesy

    It's possible the evil 'spirit' of those who run such ministeries is in me too, if so I would like to be 'exorcised' out of it.  But the fact is I've never attempted to sell anything or heal anyone in life, let alone combine religion and fake healing!

    By the way, please note whatever I wrote in response to Mr. Hassan's Khutbah can best be described as a summary of some of my findings, views, and thoughts based on information collected from books, articles, websites, etc.  In my response above, I tried to cite the references whenever I could.  I honestly do not know how accurate and reliable these sources of information are, for example the Wikipedia links on Asma bint Marwan or Banu Qurayza or Fatawa-e-Alamgiri.  If you do care to read carefully what I wrote, I hope and expect if you will unhesitatingly point out all that is wrong and incorrect and provide sources for the proper information, your rationale, etc.

    Thanks for your attention.

    Regards,
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #10 - July 17, 2016, 03:47 AM

    Islamophobigot, was that all your research/writing or did you copy/paste it from somewhere else? :O


    @Helaine,

    As I mentioned to yeezeevee, my response to Mr. Hassan is based on my own thoughts and the information collected from fairly 'mainstream' sources (for example, if Wikipedia or books available on Amazon can be viewed as such!).  I strive to reference the sources in my write-ups and I try to state the reasons why, based on whatever the information says, I view things in a certain way.  So if I copy and paste anything (as what I did from the Wikipedia links on Asma bin Marwan and Fatawa-e-Alamgiri) from anywhere, I like to the cite the source.  If you think I have failed to do so in any particular section, please point that out.

    Regards,

  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #11 - July 17, 2016, 04:06 AM

    This guy writes like M. A. Khan.


    @three,

    By M.A. Khan, I assume you mean the author of the book I referenced, https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Jihad-Conversion-Imperialism-Slavery/dp/1440118469.

    I have never met M.A. Khan, I don't even know who he really is, whether the biographical sketch given as part of the book is that of an actual person.  Also, I have not read any other works by Mr. Khan.  But one thing I will admit is the book by M.A. Khan reinforced the importance of providing sources of information, especially while discussing islam.

    What is your view on the book?  Do you think there is any accuracy in what he writes in the book about the horrors committed in the name of islam?  When I first read the book, around 2011 I believe, among many of my thoughts was the dehumanizing treatment of entire groups of people, the dhimmis, those not thought to be of the 'book' and thus utter disregard for them.  When I read Mr. Hassan mention, "dehumanising ideology" and mention "21st century", my immediate thought was, wait a minute, people have been mowed down for centuries.  Until and unless there is full recognition of this, my view there will be no progress toward the goal of, "to find a way of defeating the lunatics" assuming it is a real one, not just some words to move past the indescribable terror in Nice the other day.

    Regards,
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #12 - July 17, 2016, 04:11 AM

    no...  i know  M. A. Khan and his work.,

     He has done thorough job of debunking Islam and Islamic mind set of 20th/21st century  by using hadith and some selective  verses of Quran..


    @yeezeevee,

    As I replied to three, the only work by M.A. Khan that I know of is the book I referenced in the first response to Mr. Hassan.  Are there works by M.A. Khan you can list in this thread?  You say, M.A. Khan has "has done thorough job of debunking Islam .. "  Does this mean you find the book he wrote on islamic jihad in India to be reliable and accurate?

    Thanks,
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #13 - July 17, 2016, 05:43 AM

    This guy comes in, tells us he has absolutely no experience with Islam, then spews some stereotypical bullshit about how Islamic civilization hasn't contributed anything to the world. He probably thinks he's smart, too. Like he's cracked the code of Islam.

    I don't think you actually spent much time figuring out who we are and what we believe in if you think your run-down-the-mill rightist views are welcome here.

    The fact that you embrace the titles "Islamophobe" and "bigot" are quite telling.

    I haven't responded to anything you've said before now because you're really not worth responding to. Go back to wikiislam or jihadwatch or wherever else you mentally jerk off to.


    Please note it is indeed true I have had no direct experience with islam.  You would have noticed I am only citing "cold stuff" - books, articles, websites, etc. - you won't see me mention any actual human i.e., real, "warm" experiences of having been a muslim or studied islam formally in a madrassa or uni or have had a spouse or a lover or a father or mother or sibling or teacher or student who was into islam.

    The sources of information I have come across inform me "something is deeply rotten in the state of islam", to paraphrase Shakespeare.  And the indications are it has been that way since day one.  And I cite the sources, so you know I'm not pulling stuff out of thin air.  If you think that is 'smart' or involves 'cracking a code' to read about and learn from and point others to sources of studies that everyone has access to, then you should try the same approach.

    People are getting mowed down as if life holds no value; consider the fate of Yazidis in the middle east now or what happened to Jews at Banu Qurayza in 6th century A.D. or the folks who perished at Nice the other day or anyone who refused islam and perished in South Asia as written by M.A. Khan.  Read this link: http://tarekfatah.com/the-moslem-conquest-of-india-an-extract-from-will-and-ariel-durants-11-volume-classic-story-of-civilization/ and the chapter by Will Durant that states, "His successor, Firoz Shah, invaded Bengal, offered a reward for every Hindu head, paid for 180,000 of them, raided Hindu villages for slaves, and died at the ripe age of eighty. Sultan Ahmad Shah feasted for three days whenever the number of defence-less Hindus slain in his territories in one day reached twenty thousand"

    If you think this is all stereotypical bullshit and "run-down-the-mill rightist views", then state so.  It'll only inform me it's ok for countless humans to perish under this ideology for over 1,400 years but to even bring it up for discussion, even when some khutbah is under way about a dehumanizing ideology, oh the ever-so-touchy prides get pricked.

    And note: I do NOT take any pride in my nom de plume; it hurts me no end to find any form of criticism of islam in the public space getting rebuffed immediately rebuffed as being islamophobic and bigoted.   I find the open discourse on islam so "absurd" (!?!) which is why I even chose the name.

    But I'll give due consideration to your call to get out of this forum, especially if others too find my views as "stereotypical bullshit"; .  Before I go, I only hope to get some feedback on what is erroneous in the information by M.A. Khan, Tarek Fatah, Will Durant's thesis, the Wikipedia pages, and so forth because I find islam itself dehumanizing based on what they say.  Anyways, my immediate thought is in the great tradition of sharia of 4 witnesses for a rape, I should perhaps wait for 3 more calls such as yours to "get out".  What say you, a quick shout to your buddies here and be rid of me in matter of a few seconds?

    Regards,

     
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #14 - July 17, 2016, 06:58 AM



    If you think this is all stereotypical bullshit and "run-down-the-mill rightist views", then state so.  It'll only inform me it's ok for countless humans to perish under this ideology for over 1,400 years but to even bring it up for discussion, even when some khutbah is under way about a dehumanizing ideology, oh the ever-so-touchy prides get pricked.


     


    You see, this part in bold is why Absurdist has reacted the way he has to you.  You may not have said it before, and have only stated it since he spoke, but the fact that you have spoken those *once a Muslim, always a Muslim* type of words, speaks volumes you know?

    Could he not have just be touchy for other reasons?  did your instant reaction need to be a comparison between us and your view of Muslims?

    We are Ex-Muslims, and some are Agnostic or Cultural Muslims.  We already discuss and challenge the dehumanising aspects of Islam, but we do so without stereotyping Muslims.

    You do.  It particularly shows in that bolded part.  How quick you were to place us side by side with your view of Muslims.

    You have to understand, that none of us here defend Islam per se, we defend Muslims.  At least against the terrible habit people have of lumping each and everyone of them, against extremists and the like.

    I honestly have no issue with Islamophobia.  I think it's a ridiculous term used to shut down debate, and mixes up two very different reactions.

    It is Muslimophobia that I detest, that all of us on here detest.  The difference between being afraid or an ideology, or being afraid of billions of people who, through even the smallest bit of common sense, should be known as being different from each other.


    Islam may contain within it dehumanising aspects, we do no contest that, but it almost feels as if you are suggesting that it only contains those aspects, and what is worse, you are trying to school Hassan, who is one of the most critical and vocal agnostic Muslims I know, with many many youtube videos showing that he doesn't need to be schooled on what the history of Islam is.

    The OT (which you already recognise) is comparable to Islamic texts, but clearly it's dehumanising aspects were overcome.  Are you suggesting that such a thing cannot occur in the context of Islam?  that all its followers must eventually go the course, or realise it's a lie and leave, in the way you were pressing Hassan to?

    Is there to be no middle ground for those who desire to challenge and reform it?

    You can't show examples of other people who have attempted to do the same, only to have their attempt eventually wiped away after they died as if this is proof of Islam's inability to be reformed, since the same pattern exists in the story of the OT's evolution.

    Anyway, the main point is, if you want to stay then you need to be less Muslimophobic, and more able to understand that it is not as black and white as your preconceived stereotypes would have you believe.

    Having had no true interaction with muslims, and only know what you know through what you have read or seen in the news, your ideas about the Muslim community need to reflected on.

    After all, if Islam is bound to turn its adherents into dangerous people, this forum just wouldn't exist, because we'd all just be potential terrorists incapable to reason. 

    Lastly, don't insult us by instantly resorting to *once a Muslim always a Muslim* insinuations.  It's sadly connected to your stereotypes, and makes no allowance for any of us simply being offended for reasons that have fuck all to do with Muslim'ness.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #15 - July 17, 2016, 09:55 AM

    Thank you for responding to him. I really can't be bothered with shit like that anymore. If he wants to learn he can go educate himself.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #16 - July 17, 2016, 10:24 AM

    I seem to have found a fresh new patience.

    Just think it must be pretty hard to maintain balance, in the face of the constant government/media pressure to divide and conquer. 

    It's endless to be honest. 

    It's really easy to get sucked in, to see the endless press on terrorist this, terrorist that, but to only see a media blackout on anything that could balance the narrative.



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #17 - July 17, 2016, 10:25 AM

    Thank you for responding to him. I really can't be bothered with shit like that anymore. If he wants to learn he can go educate himself.

    No..no....Noooo., You have to be.,    you have to take time to be bothered ., it is equally important  or even more important  to make people like "Islamophobigot" to understand where CEMB   specially folks like Hassan Radwan stands for.,  In fact it is more important than bashing faith based scriptures...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #18 - July 17, 2016, 10:41 AM

    It's really easy to get sucked in, to see the endless press on terrorist this, terrorist that, but to only see a media blackout on anything that could balance the narrative.

    Oh, I'm not for a media blackout. I write a lot about that stuff. But I don't engage with people personally. It's too exhausting. People gotta find their limits, what they can contribute and how much.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #19 - July 17, 2016, 10:43 AM

    Of course.  Definitely wasn't suggesting you should exhaust yourself on this.  I am bound to run out of steam eventually too.  Grin


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #20 - July 17, 2016, 11:26 AM

    @yeezevee,

    That video is funny indeed! Cheesy

    It's possible the evil 'spirit' of those who run such ministeries is in me too, if so I would like to be 'exorcised' out of it.  

     Hellooooo    Islamophobigot .,  really ? was it really funny  ., Don't worry about evil 'spirit., we have medications

    how about this stuff

    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=6109&start=200
    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=6604#p107939
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19682.msg560807#msg560807
    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=110107&sid=8e07e23d39a0a34bce4cfaecc59a9f34#p110107
    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=110065#p110065

    please read through whole folder/folders.. I am reading you..all of your posts .... I will answer rest of your questions and problems with  Hassan  and others in this forum..  You write well.. you copy paste right stuff .. SamHarris is good.,

    So are you an atheist or agnostic with some faith Islamophobigot?  well your nick is tough so let me shorten it to Ipbigot ..

    And.....and please watch these videos and tell me your opinion..

    Quote


    and please continue to read and write

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #21 - July 17, 2016, 01:12 PM

    Excellent response, Berbs - thank you hugs

    Dear Islamophobigot, I am never an apologist for Islam. I'm trying hard to open up the eyes of Muslims - my family, friends, colleagues, community - to the supremacist and dehumanising issues within Islam itself. I want Muslims themselves to recognise the problems with Islam, so we can start confronting them rather than the usual denial, anger and blaming others.

    Whether I get anywhere or not - who knows - but I will try, because IMHO it is the most human thing to do.

    Thanks.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #22 - July 17, 2016, 01:42 PM

    btw to everyone on here - though i know berbs and absurdist and many others here understand - i believe all religions are man-made and contain truck loads of bullshit - and what they contain of good things are not unique but universal human values - i avoid the term ex-muslim though only because i want to do my bit to effect positive change. I feel a sense of responsibility to that.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #23 - July 17, 2016, 01:45 PM

    i am also very proud of this forum and love and support you very much.

    i know i don't need to say that to my friends here because they know and understand what i'm trying to do. but i said it anyway for the few nit-wits who seem to think i am an apologist.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #24 - July 17, 2016, 02:03 PM

    hugs

    We love you too Hass.

    I hate that word too though, Muslim Apologist, like wtf are we apologising for? 

    I hate a whole bunch of pathetic words that have popped up lately though.

    Like 'virtue signalling' ...or 'social justice warriors'

    What dick head thinks up these terms? 

    When did it become a bad thing to want equality, fairness, and justice?  When did a balanced debate become 'apologising'?


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #25 - July 17, 2016, 03:28 PM

    hugs
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #26 - July 17, 2016, 04:02 PM

    @three,

    By M.A. Khan, I assume you mean the author of the book I referenced, https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Jihad-Conversion-Imperialism-Slavery/dp/1440118469.

    I have never met M.A. Khan, I don't even know who he really is, whether the biographical sketch given as part of the book is that of an actual person.  Also, I have not read any other works by Mr. Khan.  But one thing I will admit is the book by M.A. Khan reinforced the importance of providing sources of information, especially while discussing islam.

    What is your view on the book?  Do you think there is any accuracy in what he writes in the book about the horrors committed in the name of islam?  When I first read the book, around 2011 I believe, among many of my thoughts was the dehumanizing treatment of entire groups of people, the dhimmis, those not thought to be of the 'book' and thus utter disregard for them.  When I read Mr. Hassan mention, "dehumanising ideology" and mention "21st century", my immediate thought was, wait a minute, people have been mowed down for centuries.  Until and unless there is full recognition of this, my view there will be no progress toward the goal of, "to find a way of defeating the lunatics" assuming it is a real one, not just some words to move past the indescribable terror in Nice the other day.

    Regards,


    My view of the work listed by M. A. Khan is that it is inflammatory and poorly edited. Does he go into detail on fiqh and compulsion and etc? Does he explain the difference between Islam the religion, Islam the Ummah, and Islamic States that pursue state interests or further the greedy dictator?
    I think we all know horrid things have been done in the name of Islam. Most of us would not recognize that Islam as anything we had ever ascribed to. From Sultans to dictatorships to solo actors, we are, most of us, unable to relate to their mindset. The Ummah cannot be blamed for what some depraved and power hungry Emir did a hundred years ago.
    I can point out many inflammatory things in the Bible and in the Quran. The fact that I was never motivated by them says more about me as a person than it does my religious identity. And it says the same about billions of others.
    Recognizing that the Ummah is more about Muslims than it is about text would be a good step. Not espousing an us. vs. them would be even better.
    Islam as a system is dehumanizing. Every system that does not recognize basic human rights and equality is dehumanizing. When you start with a premise of superiority, horrible things happen. Everywhere, in every culture. If Muslims were not, in the overwhelming majority, lovely people, our world would be in much worse shape. Same for Christians, circa not that long ago. Same for Communists, and the list goes on.
    People are usually better than their belief systems. Demonize Islam without demonizing Muslims. Or you are just polarizing, and that makes it worse. 


    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #27 - July 17, 2016, 08:58 PM

    i am also very proud of this forum and love and support you very much.

    i know i don't need to say that to my friends here because they know and understand what i'm trying to do. but i said it anyway for the few nit-wits who seem to think i am an apologist.


    A major issue is how the term apologist is applied. More often than not people use the term to apply only to those that defend mainstream religious ideas. Fringe and minority religious views points that are defended are rarely labelled as such. However the basics can be applied to anything one defends. Defending yourself in a court trial makes that person an apologist since they are defending a position, in this case the position that they are innocent.

    We are all apologists for one position or another. Using the label seems more like an attack in order to dismiss a position without considering it.

  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #28 - July 18, 2016, 01:49 AM

    Hellooooo    Islamophobigot ., ..  well your nick is tough so let me shorten it to Ipbigot ..

    And.....and please watch these videos and tell me your opinion.. ..

    and please continue to read and write

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Dear yeezevee Sir!

    Thank you for the homework!  I'll review them and post my feedback in a few days!

    Re: the nick  Afro  But it is somewhat telling about your urge to give nicks to others and how your mind works in the process, if some Freudian were a close associate of mine, I could spend a lazy afternoon analyzing what led you to reduce the nick like so, to drop islam out of it, and to leave it with something that squarely conveys obedience to the belief system the problem with anyone questioning islam is with the person itself!  Nonetheless, it is quite reminiscent of iRobot or the self-absorbed theme marketed so well by the Cupertino-based company with their "i" device ecosystem!  But such analysis will only be to keep the neurons flowing over a cup of coffee or a beer, honestly I don't care what I am called now, bigot, ibigot, whatever.  I don't expect my stay here to end any differently from that of Asma bint Marwan in Mecca back in the day, only a matter of time before some 'prophet' goes "who will take care of this problem for me" and a follower duly obliges!  Smiley

    Kind Regards, 
  • Khutbah on Attack in Nice, France.
     Reply #29 - July 18, 2016, 03:14 AM

    Dear yeezevee Sir!

    Thank you for the homework!  I'll review them and post my feedback in a few days!

    Re: the nick  Afro  But it is somewhat telling about your urge to give nicks to others and how your mind works in the process, if some Freudian were a close associate of mine, I could spend a lazy afternoon analyzing what led you to reduce the nick like so, to drop islam out of it, and to leave it with something that squarely conveys obedience to the belief system the problem with anyone questioning islam is with the person itself!  Nonetheless, it is quite reminiscent of iRobot or the self-absorbed theme marketed so well by the Cupertino-based company with their "i" device ecosystem!  But such analysis will only be to keep the neurons flowing over a cup of coffee or a beer, honestly I don't care what I am called now, bigot, ibigot, whatever.  I don't expect my stay here to end any differently from that of Asma bint Marwan in Mecca back in the day, only a matter of time before some 'prophet' goes "who will take care of this problem for me" and a follower duly obliges!  Smiley

    Kind Regards,  

    I see ..good...good..  "yobaz"  .... yeeeha... "yobaz"., you are worried about "that word" why?

    glad to  read your response ip-Bigot.,   but let me listen/watch this first
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VtmQb-b-vU
    and do bit of other work before I type a detailed response for your 20 or so posts., NO.. no.  noo   it is not bigot or ibigot,   but   ip-bigot  

    And let me delete/cross out  the unwarranted  words., because   I AM ONE OF THE BIGGEST BIGOTS AGAINST THOSE WHO THROW  UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS AGAINST OTHERS...... as far as this is concerned
    Quote
    Dear yeezevee Sir!

    Thank you for the homework!  I'll review them and post my feedback in a few days!

    now coming  to that ., "teachers don't do homework, teachers give homework."   ... well when you call me Sir., then you coming from south Asia you  better behave yourself in front of "Sir"., ,    I know well and you know well how much respect teachers get   from students  dear ip-bigot .,

    and those links are not enough home work for you., you need to read lot more..  so what you do is this  Go to "Faith freedom international"  site ... or log in to CEMB   and search for "yeezevee" and read the posts

    or or..   just go internet ..  

    1). type   these words  "yeezevee.,  Islam, Muhammad,  Quran," in search field and read the links

    and type   "yeezevee,  Hector ,  ashura"...  in google search field ,, and read.. then  write  a concise report on what you find ..and submit the report

    And I wait for your report dear ip-Bigot..,   Off course   we will discuss all the stories of early Islam from birth to death of "Muhammad".. the so-called prophet of Islam., all 62 years of his life  Islamic and non-Islamic ....  Trust me I will educate you on that  and educate you on  that story of Asma bint Marwan of Mecca., not only about her but i will educate you about other poets of that time.

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »