How many actually read quran?

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- Bee
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How many actually read quran?
OP - August 14, 2016, 12:40 PM

This is what I wonder about. Guess-stimate how many muslims have actually read the quran in a language they understand? Not memorized the quran in arabic (unless they actually understand that type of ancient arabic), not listened to the quran on cassette tape, dvd, recited etc. Not actually read it in translation into a language that they can understand?

I always hear the argument that the quran cannot be translated. People out in the street giving out free qurans but those are audio recording or just in arabic text.

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Reply #1 - August 14, 2016, 01:01 PM

Great question. How many people 'understand ' it?

How many people read the whole text?

How many people understand the context?

How many people understand the tafsir?

How many understand the corresponding hadiths?

Another important question though is, how many people can read with high illiteracy rates?

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Reply #2 - August 14, 2016, 01:12 PM

Everything can be translated. Nothing will be 100 percent like the original.

I've read the Quran. It's repetitive and boring.
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Reply #3 - August 14, 2016, 02:22 PM

Quote from: Absurdist on August 14, 2016, 01:12 PM
Everything can be translated. Nothing will be 100 percent like the original.

I've read the Quran. It's repetitive and boring.

This. I don't know how anyone could call this text perfect or timeless. I mean one adjective to describe it would be adamant. Okay we get it; there's One God and if we transgress hell-fire is our eternal abode, but if we surrender to Allah and accept the Final Messenger, to us eternal bliss is granted.

Like fuck me, how many times must we hammer in the same narrative? It's like the author was illiterate or not very articulate...wait.
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Reply #4 - August 14, 2016, 02:29 PM

Quote from: Hsnake on August 14, 2016, 02:22 PM
.................

Like fuck me, ...........

Hello snake how are you doing? .,in your dreams., who is the ideal person that you want to get fucked by him/her?

and what is the difference between you getting fucked and you fucking? is there any difference between the two

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Reply #5 - August 14, 2016, 02:51 PM

I read about half of the quran in English translation. I stopped because it was boring, repetitive and mostly what I got out of it is that "a" hates nonbelievers, wants believers to kill them and "a" will torture nonbelievers forever etc etc etc. Nothing beatiful or inspiring. Is there their something wrong with my brain? because if I was a muslim who actually believed in what the quran says I would be out killing unbelievers. But I am not a muslim. I am really confused about people who claim to be muslims and peaceful and loving everyone (except Ahmadyii muslims). I ewonder if because maybe they never bothered to read the quran and try understand it or question it. Is there something wrong with me?

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Reply #6 - August 14, 2016, 06:00 PM

I read the Tahrike Tarsile Quran over and over and I loved it, quoted it, referred to it often. Years after my conversion someone handed me a pocket sized Quran with footnoted Tafsir by some Maulana or another and I could not believe the disparity between what I had read before and what I now held in my hands. It was not the same book. That was my first clue.

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Reply #7 - August 14, 2016, 08:01 PM

Quote from: Bee on August 14, 2016, 02:51 PM
I read about half of the quran in English translation. I stopped because it was boring, repetitive and mostly what I got out of it is that "a" hates nonbelievers, wants believers to kill them and "a" will torture nonbelievers forever etc etc etc. Nothing beatiful or inspiring. Is there their something wrong with my brain? because if I was a muslim who actually believed in what the quran says I would be out killing unbelievers. But I am not a muslim. I am really confused about people who claim to be muslims and peaceful and loving everyone (except Ahmadyii muslims). I ewonder if because maybe they never bothered to read the quran and try understand it or question it. Is there something wrong with me?

I understand what you are saying. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The reason being is because of the poetical style at the time and because of the structure - many different hands repeated the same message in different ways. There are more reasons for this too as those who have studied the origins, structure and composition of the KORAN can tell you. But to dismiss the KORAN as simply repetitive and boring is foolish. One can admire particular aspects of it: particular ayas and surahs have lyrical quality to them, no doubt many take comfort in what it represents by way of enjoining them too good thus reinforcing particular social norms and values as well as taboos and it is of course indispensable from a socio-historical viewpoint.

Talk about the bad AND the good and everything else in between.

No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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Reply #8 - August 14, 2016, 08:29 PM

you learn more by watching this simple 6 mts tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4

than reading 114 chapters of that silly book or for that matter any religious book/nonsense... I read that book number of times looking at it in different angles .,in fact in this forum itself http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16106.0 there are 45 chapters ..

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Reply #9 - August 14, 2016, 08:47 PM

Quote from: Jedi on August 14, 2016, 08:01 PM
I understand what you are saying. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The reason being is because of the poetical style at the time and because of the structure - many different hands repeated the same message in different ways. There are more reasons for this too as those who have studied the origins, structure and composition of the KORAN can tell you. But to dismiss the KORAN as simply repetitive and boring is foolish. One can admire particular aspects of it: particular ayas and surahs have lyrical quality to them, no doubt many take comfort in what it represents by way of enjoining them too good thus reinforcing particular social norms and values as well as taboos and it is of course indispensable from a socio-historical viewpoint.

Talk about the bad AND the good and everything else in between.

Most of us are talking about the English translations (Abdullah Yusuf Ali for me). But sure there were times that I could almost bop my head to the rhythm during taraweeh in Ramadan!
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Reply #10 - August 14, 2016, 08:50 PM

Quote from: Jedi on August 14, 2016, 08:01 PM
I understand what you are saying. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The KORAN had to be repetitive and boring. The reason being is because of the poetical style at the time and because of the structure - many different hands repeated the same message in different ways. There are more reasons for this too as those who have studied the origins, structure and composition of the KORAN can tell you. But to dismiss the KORAN as simply repetitive and boring is foolish. One can admire particular aspects of it: particular ayas and surahs have lyrical quality to them, no doubt many take comfort in what it represents by way of enjoining them too good thus reinforcing particular social norms and values as well as taboos and it is of course indispensable from a socio-historical viewpoint.

Talk about the bad AND the good and everything else in between.

This. (But Allah really needed an editor. The Qur'an could have been so much shorter) However I've perhaps the repetitive and lyrical nature of the KORAN, was due to the fact that most of the followers and worshippers were memorising the KORAN off by heart at the time. Thus it was easier to remember.
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Reply #11 - August 14, 2016, 10:35 PM

Is it all about form rather than content. What is thenpoint of memorizing a text a person does not understand? What upsets me more than the repetition is the content. Why is it so angry, so violent. "A" hates but described as so merciful.

Even the stories of the prophets are really SNORE as compared to the bible. Not much details on them and a total ripoff of the bible as I can tell. Yeah, muslims are told not to read the bible because they would "lose their faith". Some Christians are saying that "a" is the same god but did they actually read the quran or read some boom about Islam (Young). If you consider the bible instructions about what to do about the Amekelites (whoever they were) to be genocide then maybe. Yes, religion sucks.

I was hoping the story of creation in the quran would at least seem somewhat good but it failed to move me much. So sadly I was extremely disappointed in reading the quran that any hope if it being a religion of peace that some claim it to be.

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Reply #12 - August 15, 2016, 10:25 AM

Quote from: three on August 14, 2016, 06:00 PM
I read the Tahrike Tarsile Quran over and over and I loved it, quoted it, referred to it often. Years after my conversion someone handed me a pocket sized Quran with footnoted Tafsir by some Maulana or another and I could not believe the disparity between what I had read before and what I now held in my hands. It was not the same book. That was my first clue.

Waitwaitwait... I know that there are some "questionable" translations (particularly by the Ahmadi community), but how could it be THAT different? To the point of not even the same book...

So did you figure out what the Tahrike Quran was and why was it different?
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Reply #13 - August 15, 2016, 12:11 PM

Quote from: Helaine on August 15, 2016, 10:25 AM
some "questionable" translations (particularly by the Ahmadi community), but how could it be THAT different? To the point of not even the same book...

So did you figure out what the Tahrike Quran was and why was it different?

It would be nice to open a folder and put all those VERSES that have questionable translations

and is there any "Tahrike Quran" that is available on web? English as wels as Arabic?

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Reply #14 - August 15, 2016, 12:50 PM

I would like to know about this. Because when I read the quran I was totally surprised and disgusted. It was not what I expected at all. I was always taught that islam was a religion of peace, goodness and that muslims worshipped the same god as the Christians ans Jews. I thought there was some universality in religion. But even when I saw aposter about the "golden rule, with all the different world religions, the verse for islam was not from the quran.

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Reply #15 - August 15, 2016, 02:31 PM

Quote from: Bee on August 15, 2016, 12:50 PM
I would like to know about this. Because when I read the quran I was totally surprised and disgusted. It was not what I expected at all.

Print me something from Quran that you are disgusted with dear Bee., I will explain you why it is printed in that book

Quote
I was always taught that islam was a religion of peace, goodness and that muslims worshipped the same god as the Christians ans Jews. I thought there was some universality in religion. But even when I saw aposter about the "golden rule, with all the different world religions, the verse for islam was not from the quran.

could you put out the picture of that golden rule poster here...

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Reply #16 - August 15, 2016, 04:32 PM

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/beginnersheart/files/2015/12/all-faiths.jpg
I hope that link works. It is from a hadith but not the quran.

Quran 5:33. The feast sura
"Those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternative hand and foot, or the banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the hereafter unless they relent before you over power them - in that case bear in mind that Allah's is forgiving and merciful. "

Usually people quote part of the the verse before it as the religion of peace "... If anyone kills a person ...it is as if he kills all of mankind...." Leaving out the part "to the children of Israel" before and and killing "unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land".

I had noted down 41 verses of violence that I object to and I stopped writing them down after I got to chapter 25. I read a few chapters out of order so that is why I got 41.

I was hoping my answer was that most muslims have never read the quran because if they actually believe this violence and how bad "a" is then, how could they be truly good people?

I watched a video or a debate and some of the muslims were truly shocked that the quran had such content.

I am very sad because I do not want to hate people. I am sad because of a book that tells people to hate and do violence. So I am also feeling very sad for muslims who do not know the quran or fooled into thinking it does not say do violence.

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Reply #17 - August 16, 2016, 02:12 AM

Quote from: Helaine on August 15, 2016, 10:25 AM
Waitwaitwait... I know that there are some "questionable" translations (particularly by the Ahmadi community), but how could it be THAT different? To the point of not even the same book...

So did you figure out what the Tahrike Quran was and why was it different?

Yes. The Tahrike Tarsile did not contain any footnoted tafsir to interpret or explain verses. It is published in the US, for Western English speaking audiences, and has been translated in such a way that it does not offend that audience.
The Maulana was from Pakistan, and his tafsir and translation was more in line with what was being taught in madrassas during the rule of General Zia and therefore greatly influenced by hardline Islam Saudi style.
This was my first exposure to Islamic thought and I am afraid the masjid bookstores I frequented were full of this sort of apologist literature. It took me years to understand there was more to Islam than this.

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Reply #18 - August 16, 2016, 02:15 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 15, 2016, 12:11 PM
It would be nice to open a folder and put all those VERSES that have questionable translations

and is there any "Tahrike Quran" that is available on web? English as wels as Arabic?

I found this, but I am not positive it is the same, it having been so long since I read my copies. I know I have read something that gave this translator´s name before.

https://www.erowid.org/spirit/traditions/islam/islam_koran1.pdf

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Reply #19 - August 16, 2016, 05:10 AM

Quote from: three on August 16, 2016, 02:15 AM
I found this, but I am not positive it is the same, it having been so long since I read my copies. I know I have read something that gave this translator´s name before.

https://www.erowid.org/spirit/traditions/islam/islam_koran1.pdf

oh that is from that Egyptian guy, Muhammad Habib Shakir Translation which i too consider it as closets to Arabic version of Quran..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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