Left home and religion

12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
OP - January 25, 2017, 07:50 PM

Hi everyone. So I had doubts about Islam for a long time, even as a child. I used to think when I was little that I would grow up and leave Islam. And at the age of 28 I did that. I grew up in a very unfair household with a strict Arab father (and English mother hence the Northern part of my name). I met my boyfriend in 2015. I had thought about leaving home before I met him but couldn't bring myself to do it. I was in a refuge at first which actually isn't that bad, and the one I was in had lots of lovely ladies and we bonded.

For a while I didn't even want to use the term ex-Muslim. I'm happy just saying I don't feel that belief in my heart and that's enough for me. Haven't told my family as I don't want to announce it. I'll probably never tell them and they will eventually figure it out, because I'm in a relationship that isn't a marriage and we have been together just over a year now. Or maybe they'll be dumb and keep expecting me to go back home.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #1 - January 26, 2017, 04:24 AM

Welcome! I was in a safe house for a while, too. It's good to see you here.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- Ward_End
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #2 - January 26, 2017, 09:07 PM

Yeah, I've wondered whether to ever tell my own parents that I don't want to consider myself Muslim. Maybe I'll tell them as a parting remark when I leave myself lol. Anyway welcome
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #3 - January 27, 2017, 01:40 AM

I didn't even tell them I left the religion. I thought they'd figure it out. But I think they don't want to admit it to themselves. I don't think I'll ever speak to my dad again because all he knows is to speak aggressively.
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #4 - January 27, 2017, 01:42 AM

Quote from: three on January 26, 2017, 04:24 AM

Welcome! I was in a safe house for a while, too. It's good to see you here.

How was it for you? My support worker was an Arab Muslim who was quite liberal and didn't wear hijab. I remember she said to me nobody should tell you what to wear or who you can and can't see. It was like someone was confirming to me that I actually have rights. It felt good.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #5 - January 28, 2017, 03:07 PM

It was horrible. The staff treated us as if we were both stupid and dangerous, and made me feel like they were going to throw me and my kids out at any minute for the slightest infraction. The rent was high, and I had no control over our schedule or our diet- I wasn't allowed to cook. My children laid down on the floor and screamed when I tried to give them American food- they had never seen food from boxes and bags before. We had crazy people and addicts and disturbed children to watch out for. Hypervigilance was a real asset. Most of the girls were the sweetest and nicest people I had ever met in my life. All of them except one went back, though. I got a lot done on our case, and though it was not a pleasant experience it did enable me to lay the groundwork for a normal life later.
My caseworker was a saint. Her daughter was a victim, so she was very dedicated to the cause.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- ElToro
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #6 - February 01, 2017, 04:24 PM

Welcome
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #7 - February 27, 2017, 04:37 PM

Quote from: three on January 28, 2017, 03:07 PM
It was horrible. The staff treated us as if we were both stupid and dangerous, and made me feel like they were going to throw me and my kids out at any minute for the slightest infraction. The rent was high, and I had no control over our schedule or our diet- I wasn't allowed to cook. My children laid down on the floor and screamed when I tried to give them American food- they had never seen food from boxes and bags before. We had crazy people and addicts and disturbed children to watch out for. Hypervigilance was a real asset. Most of the girls were the sweetest and nicest people I had ever met in my life. All of them except one went back, though. I got a lot done on our case, and though it was not a pleasant experience it did enable me to lay the groundwork for a normal life later.
My caseworker was a saint. Her daughter was a victim, so she was very dedicated to the cause.

I'm sorry you had that experience. It was completely different where I was. We had shared kitchens and could cook whatever we wanted. Rent wasn't too bad, a fraction of what you'd pay in your own flat. I think the worst thing was feeling lonely, or not being able to afford to just hop on a bus sometimes to get out. The women in my refuge were lovely too, but not everyone was trying to move on, I guess it depends what happened to the person prior to going in. I just threw myself into finding a job, almost like I wouldn't give myself the time to dwell on it. I am now jobless again, but in my own place, which feels more lonely.

Glad you had a good caseworker, that really helps. I think its good when you are able to talk to them easily and it actually seems like they want to help.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #8 - March 12, 2017, 02:26 AM

I think a supportive environment would go further in keeping women safe, but my facility was primarily concerned with funding- and women who stay very short term (addicts, etc) did not give them that. So they made it tough probably to weed out the ones who were determined to see their time through. To be fair, the women who went back were mostly court - ordered into the safe house in the first place. They didn't want to be there or leave their partners, but had to be in that facility for months in order to see their kids and get a chance at having them back again. The state I was in removed children from mothers with abusive partners and put them into foster care if there were no suitable relatives, so at least a third of the women there had lost their kids.
I did learn that I could survive more than one abusive environment. So it might have been a confidence builder.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- gal_from_usa
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #9 - March 12, 2017, 05:16 AM

welcome

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #10 - March 12, 2017, 12:30 PM

Quote from: three on March 12, 2017, 02:26 AM
I think a supportive environment would go further in keeping women safe, but my facility was primarily concerned with funding- and women who stay very short term (addicts, etc) did not give them that. So they made it tough probably to weed out the ones who were determined to see their time through. To be fair, the women who went back were mostly court - ordered into the safe house in the first place. They didn't want to be there or leave their partners, but had to be in that facility for months in order to see their kids and get a chance at having them back again. The state I was in removed children from mothers with abusive partners and put them into foster care if there were no suitable relatives, so at least a third of the women there had lost their kids.
I did learn that I could survive more than one abusive environment. So it might have been a confidence builder.

Sounds like a different place to mine. I got placed there after calling the domestic violence helpline. I didn't find out there were helplines more specific to my situation until after I moved into the refuge. Helplines like Karma Nirvana, who specialise in honour based abuse, which was more my situation.

Thanks for the welcome all.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #11 - March 12, 2017, 01:13 PM

At the time tbat I left I was looking for honour violence organizations and there were none. It is not recognized as a motivation for crime in the United States. Those committing honour violence here are charged with murder or stalking or etc. Which makes it hard to get statistics and funding for assisting victims.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #12 - March 12, 2017, 06:31 PM

Quote
At the time tbat I left I was looking for honour violence organizations and there were none. It is not recognized as a motivation for crime in the United States. Those committing honour violence here are charged with murder or stalking or etc. Which makes it hard to get statistics and funding for assisting victims.

That's a shame it hasn't been recognised as a crime. I think its a recent thing in the UK, but its good because if someone is killed or abused in that way, they can be charged with the correct crime. I did not bother calling the police on my father. What he did was more of forcing me into a life he wanted for me. For a long time I thought it was normal, then I just wanted to get out. But I don't want him to ruin my sister's life. If he does something like that to her then I might have to do more.
There's also forced marriage, that's a crime here too.

I wasn't until I called the helpline that I realised what a problem it was. I really just called to vent to them one night. I said how my dad didn't let me dress how I wanted, or have guys as friends, or talk to guys. They said nobody can tell you what to wear or who to speak to. That alone was enough for them and I was surprised by that. I guess it became normalised in my head, I would complain about it to other people but didn't actually do something until a year ago.

I fell with one of my brothers last year as well. He started saying only women who have been threatened with death go into a refuge. Then his wife started saying it too (she grew up like me and now she's married to my brother, I feel for her). So I called karma nirvana, the honour based abuse helpline, in tears, wanting someone to tell me what I did was right. That I wasn't taking up someone else's room. Someone more deserving. It was a horrible thing to go through. I speak to him now but only because he has a daughter, and I don't want my niece thinking I hate her.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #13 - March 12, 2017, 07:05 PM

Yes that is not true at all, those shelters are for victims, period. We had women in our shelter who were beaten (I was one of those) and those who were screamed at (I was one of those, too) and even one women whose husband told her to choose between him and her five year old little girl.
But only the Muslim girls could understand why I was so paranoid, because of honour. The American and Mexican girls were only afraid of their partners, not the entire clan or a network of strangers.
I think worse than the beatings or threats is the fact that we then normalize abuse, in any form, and the other effects it has on our mind and our personalities. I had to work really hard to try to see things differently and I still struggle with not internalizing my external life circumstances.
The liberals in my country do not want honour to be used in law enforcement or sentencing, because they fear it will lead to further ethnic and racial issues. But you can't change what you cannot see: no stats, no problem. I had a judge who knew the score and I got better results than most. But some recognition in the penal code would go a longer way.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #14 - March 12, 2017, 09:57 PM

There's still problems, because sometimes police are reluctant to get involved in 'community affairs', and it will still go unpunished sometimes because of that. I think sometimes the police and/or government are too afraid to be tarred with the 'racist' brush.

It's because it becomes 'normal' I guess. You get that behaviour and treatment day in day out, its what you come to expect. There is nothing else. Even when you see its not the same for other people, its your reality. For a long time I felt helpless, and I was 'waiting it out'. Waiting to see if my dad would change. Time was ticking. I was afraid I'd never have children. I guess my dad didn't want grandchildren from me.

There was an Asian politician here who sparked a debate by saying we shouldn't use the word honour, because it implies the crime was honourable. I think she has completely misunderstood why its used. In my opinion and many others, its to differientiate from other kinds of abuse. Its usually found in ethnic minority communities etc.

Most of the people in my refuge were Muslim. I remember one Gambian woman, Muslim, told me twice I should go back home and I didn't have any problems. I probably should have reported her to staff, but I just ignored her. I thought what if someone had told her to go back to her husband? It doesn't make any sense. But she was the only one who said that.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #15 - March 12, 2017, 10:25 PM

Well if the word "face" or something like that were used I suppose you could do away with "honour", but no one calls it anything else, so it seems silly.
Really we ought to celebrate people getting out of abuse at any stage. It's not a contest! If anyone else tells you that you didn't have any problem, use that as a way of measuring them so you can assess their value to you. Because they are not respecting your autonomy!

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- DaveK
- Member
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #16 - March 14, 2017, 11:27 AM

It's inspirational to see the courage you showed to do what was necessary to secure your freedom. (Both of you.) The progressive left really does need a wake up call, I actually get more upset with people who will defend this stuff in some ways then the people who perpetuate it. At least they actually believe this was on the orders of some all powerful demon. The so called progressives and feminists who defend this stuff have no excuse but their own cowardice and desire for social capital.
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #17 - March 14, 2017, 01:50 PM

Quote
It's inspirational to see the courage you showed to do what was necessary to secure your freedom. (Both of you.) The progressive left really does need a wake up call, I actually get more upset with people who will defend this stuff in some ways then the people who perpetuate it. At least they actually believe this was on the orders of some all powerful demon. The so called progressives and feminists who defend this stuff have no excuse but their own cowardice and desire for social capital.

A few people said I was brave when I left, but I actually never felt that way. I left when everyone had gone out. I felt like it took no bravery because I snuck out and left a note. But then I think about how many years it took me to even get to that point.

I think of myself as a feminist, but in the way that I want women to have all their rights. As in things like equal pay, and so on.
- DaveK
- Member
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #18 - March 14, 2017, 04:10 PM

I was specifically referring to the people who call themselves feminists who shut down any criticism of islam based on a simplistic view where "america=white=male=christian=bad", and anything that seems to be opposed to this is therefore good.
- DaveK
- Member
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #19 - March 14, 2017, 04:10 PM

but i don't want to derail, just clarifying
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #20 - March 14, 2017, 11:56 PM

Quote from: DaveK on March 14, 2017, 11:27 AM
It's inspirational to see the courage you showed to do what was necessary to secure your freedom. (Both of you.) The progressive left really does need a wake up call, I actually get more upset with people who will defend this stuff in some ways then the people who perpetuate it. At least they actually believe this was on the orders of some all powerful demon. The so called progressives and feminists who defend this stuff have no excuse but their own cowardice and desire for social capital.

I think you mean to say that perpetrators of honour violence are committing violent or abusive acts on the orders of a demon/god? If that is what you meant, it is not true. Honour has not very much to do with Islam, but lots to do with culture. The Quran does advocate physical punishment but honour is not that. Honour is very hard to explain. Oh.. Quod did it so well, I wish I could remember how he explained it.
It is like saving face. Your daughter looked out the window at a young man or got a wrong number on her cell phone so you have to kill her or no one will respect you, basically. It's not even about if she DID anything, plenty of young people die who are innocent of anything, and in some places it is men, too. It's about your reputation, in your own mind and in the community.
If I misread you, I apologize. But it is not about any demon at all (except for those who are insane and hearing voices), just trying to look honourable/macho/manly/respectable.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #21 - March 14, 2017, 11:58 PM

Quote from: DaveK on March 14, 2017, 04:10 PM
I was specifically referring to the people who call themselves feminists who shut down any criticism of islam based on a simplistic view where "america=white=male=christian=bad", and anything that seems to be opposed to this is therefore good.

Yes, and it is even worse when they put hijab on. I wish they would stop and just be supportive of a woman's right to choose.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #22 - March 14, 2017, 11:59 PM

Quote from: NorthernArab on March 14, 2017, 01:50 PM
A few people said I was brave when I left, but I actually never felt that way. I left when everyone had gone out. I felt like it took no bravery because I snuck out and left a note. But then I think about how many years it took me to even get to that point.

I think of myself as a feminist, but in the way that I want women to have all their rights. As in things like equal pay, and so on.

I wasn't brave, either. I tried to be, but.. it was too much. Seriously we were brave to stay. It wasn't good for us but we stuck in there until we couldn't.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- PeruvianSkies
- Ex-Muslim
- La Illaha Il al FSM
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #23 - March 15, 2017, 09:07 AM

Leaving requires a lot of courage to take those first steps. That's why people see us as brave. The actual act of leaving feels pretty anticlimactic. I did something very similar to you NothernArab, just left a note and never returned.

People also see stories like ours as inspirational. It gives them hope that things can change. Doesn't matter if we had to 'sneak' away, we still got out. The least confrontational it is, the better. Who wants a massive fight/argument? It would just scare and discourage people.

~My story~
~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #24 - March 15, 2017, 08:10 PM

Quote
Leaving requires a lot of courage to take those first steps. That's why people see us as brave. The actual act of leaving feels pretty anticlimactic. I did something very similar to you NothernArab, just left a note and never returned.

People also see stories like ours as inspirational. It gives them hope that things can change. Doesn't matter if we had to 'sneak' away, we still got out. The least confrontational it is, the better. Who wants a massive fight/argument? It would just scare and discourage people.

Hey PeruvianSkies. Yeh I didn't want a big confrontation. I had already been confronted once by my younger brother who suspected maybe I was talking to guys. (no proof......) and my mum stood there and let him do it. He was actually blocking me from leaving a room. Him 19 years old, me 28..... its so stupid. In the end I thought if I'm going, I'm doing it quietly, and they can just just discover me gone. It was on the advice of a friend who worked in a womens refuge who said leave a note. She said that way you can't be reported to police as missing, because you left a note saying you left and you're safe. That's all they need to know.

Quote from: three on March 14, 2017, 11:56 PM
I think you mean to say that perpetrators of honour violence are committing violent or abusive acts on the orders of a demon/god? If that is what you meant, it is not true. Honour has not very much to do with Islam, but lots to do with culture. The Quran does advocate physical punishment but honour is not that. Honour is very hard to explain. Oh.. Quod did it so well, I wish I could remember how he explained it.
It is like saving face. Your daughter looked out the window at a young man or got a wrong number on her cell phone so you have to kill her or no one will respect you, basically. It's not even about if she DID anything, plenty of young people die who are innocent of anything, and in some places it is men, too. It's about your reputation, in your own mind and in the community.
If I misread you, I apologize. But it is not about any demon at all (except for those who are insane and hearing voices), just trying to look honourable/macho/manly/respectable.

I think you explained it well. It's about being respected as a man and as a family in the community. They want others to speak well of them. Oh that family is good, they are religious, their daughter is devout etc. What the sons do, nobody seems to care, speaking as someone who has 3 brothers. I felt like they got away with murder compared to me.

Quote
I wasn't brave, either. I tried to be, but.. it was too much. Seriously we were brave to stay. It wasn't good for us but we stuck in there until we couldn't.

Pretty much. I was hoping things would change, its why I stuck it out. But it became clear to me that was never going to happen.
- awakened
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #25 - March 17, 2017, 03:20 PM

Quote from: NorthernArab on March 12, 2017, 06:31 PM

I wasn't until I called the helpline that I realised what a problem it was. I really just called to vent to them one night. I said how my dad didn't let me dress how I wanted, or have guys as friends, or talk to guys. They said nobody can tell you what to wear or who to speak to. That alone was enough for them and I was surprised by that. I guess it became normalised in my head, I would complain about it to other people but didn't actually do something until a year ago.

I fell with one of my brothers last year as well. He started saying only women who have been threatened with death go into a refuge. Then his wife started saying it too (she grew up like me and now she's married to my brother, I feel for her). So I called karma nirvana, the honour based abuse helpline, in tears, wanting someone to tell me what I did was right. That I wasn't taking up someone else's room. Someone more deserving. It was a horrible thing to go through. I speak to him now but only because he has a daughter, and I don't want my niece thinking I hate her.

hello northernarab
well from your name i can see we share the same back ground and proplem
the diffrence is where i am there is no safe houses or there is but litterly only who are about to die go there
and that is where tha abusers get there power from .
when i dared to take my family to court for violance where i have a medical report
the judge found the stupidest excuse to fine me saying that i called my brother stupid and animal while he was hitting me how stupid is that

You are educated when you have the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or self-confidence.
Robert Frost

?Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.?

― Andr? Gide
- DaveK
- Member
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #26 - March 24, 2017, 08:28 AM

I must admit, it's hard for me to comprehend murdering a family member for social capital. I guess I assumed the only reason someone would do that is if they thought they were literally going to hell if they didn't.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #27 - March 27, 2017, 02:15 AM

No, there is a completely different motivation. I am sure some combine the two, as culture and religion are often blended or confused (even by practitioners), but this is not about the afterlife or God at all. Let me see if I can find an explanation, somewhere on here I read a good one. I can't explain it well because I mostly can feel it when I am in violation of honour code. I don't think on it, it feels like something creepy between my shoulder blades. Exactly as if someone were behind me.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- NorthernArab
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #28 - March 27, 2017, 02:32 PM

Quote from: awakened on March 17, 2017, 03:20 PM
hello northernarab
well from your name i can see we share the same back ground and proplem
the diffrence is where i am there is no safe houses or there is but litterly only who are about to die go there
and that is where tha abusers get there power from .
when i dared to take my family to court for violance where i have a medical report
the judge found the stupidest excuse to fine me saying that i called my brother stupid and animal while he was hitting me how stupid is that

That's terrible. I never suffered any violence, but I was trying to show my family, look I won't call the police on you if you just let me live my life now.
I can't believe the judge said that. So calling someone names to get them to stop hitting you is worse than the hitting?! It makes no sense!

Quote from: DaveK on March 24, 2017, 08:28 AM
I must admit, it's hard for me to comprehend murdering a family member for social capital. I guess I assumed the only reason someone would do that is if they thought they were literally going to hell if they didn't.

The way I understand it (but still makes no sense to me to kill) is that the honour will be 'restored' if the 'problem' is taken care of.

Quote from: three on March 27, 2017, 02:15 AM
No, there is a completely different motivation. I am sure some combine the two, as culture and religion are often blended or confused (even by practitioners), but this is not about the afterlife or God at all. Let me see if I can find an explanation, somewhere on here I read a good one. I can't explain it well because I mostly can feel it when I am in violation of honour code. I don't think on it, it feels like something creepy between my shoulder blades. Exactly as if someone were behind me.

I used to think my parents would find out somehow if I did something wrong, like everyone I met was a plant and they would report back to them. I don't think the fear ever goes away, I don't speak to my dad nor did I 'explain' why I left because I am afraid of him. I think if I saw him here I would run in the opposite direction.
- three
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Left home and religion
Reply #29 - May 06, 2017, 11:03 AM

Instincts are best listened to.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »