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Theme Changer

 Topic: How would you respond to this?

 (Read 4077 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • How would you respond to this?
     OP - October 07, 2017, 05:49 AM

    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #1 - October 07, 2017, 09:46 AM

    I could think of plenty of humble, poor and simple men who aren't prophets. It also sounds like a fairly generic description of a holy man in the Near East in late antiquity. That's what they were supposed to be like, so later narratives would be more or less bound to see them that way regardless of historical reality. See any number of saints' lives from the same period for comparison.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #2 - October 07, 2017, 09:49 AM

    But they never claimed they were prophets.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #3 - October 07, 2017, 10:01 AM

    I wonder if the historical Muhammad ever claimed he was a prophet. We can be sure his followers did at some point after his death. In the same way I'm sure the historical Jesus never claimed to be the son of God but it didn't take too long for his followers to make the claim after he died.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #4 - October 07, 2017, 10:44 AM

    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"


    Being poor does not make any other claim true.

    I doubt he was actually poor like normal people of the era. More likely he lived an aesthetic life-style or lived off what his followers provided. So he was not like the poor and meek we typically think of today.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #5 - October 07, 2017, 05:14 PM

    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"


    His first marriage was to a rich merchant woman. Some accounts claim he relied on her a lot.
    Then he married Saw'da. She was old, took care of the household and later in her life she gave up her 'conjugal rights' to Aisha out of fear for him divorcing her.
    Then he married a kid, had several others wives and even a sex slave.
    When he went 'warmongering', pillage and rape was a natural part of it.
    Some Quran chapters favour his needs (like having more than 4 wives). Something Aisha commented on herself.

    Doesn't sound simple, humble or like the life of a poor man.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #6 - October 07, 2017, 05:50 PM

    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"

    The  arabic word  " Mohamed  / Mohammad ".. is an adjective ..could be added to any name  and to any person  who was/is the leader of his times.. .,  THERE WAS/IS NO MUHAMMAD IN QURAN ..  We could also use the Muhammad  to all  other so-called Prophets/messengers that are mentioned in Quran which were born much before the birth of Islam..

    In Short NO ONE MUHAMMAD IN ISLAM...
    His first marriage was to a rich merchant woman. Some accounts claim he relied on her a lot.
    Then he married Saw'da. She was old, took care of the household and later in her life she gave up her 'conjugal rights' to Aisha out of fear for him divorcing her.
    Then he married a kid, had several others wives and even a sex slave.
    When he went 'warmongering', pillage and rape was a natural part of it.
    Some Quran chapters favour his needs (like having more than 4 wives). Something Aisha commented on herself.

    Doesn't sound simple, humble or like the life of a poor man.


    None of those names such as  Saw'da.,   Aisha..  and all these ladies

    Quote
    Wives

    1. Khadija/Khadijah bint Khuwailid/Khywaylid
    2. Sauda/Sawda bint Zam’a
    3. 'Aisha/Aesha/’A’ishah - married at 6, consummated at 9
    4. Omm/’Umm Salama/Salamah
    5. Hafsa/Hafsah
    6. Zaynab/Zainab of Jahsh- daughter in law
    7. Juwairiya/Jowayriya bint Harith- captured from the raid on Bani Mustaliq
    8. Safiya/Safiyya bint Huyai/Huyayy bint Akhtab- captured from the raid on Bani Nadir
    9. Maymuna/Maimuna of Hareth
    10. Fatima/Fatema/Fatimah-Ibn-i-Majah vol.1 no.465 p.255 and Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 no.228 p.224; vol.1 no.417 p.307
    11. Hend/Hind (widow)
    12. Asma of Saba (Sana bint Asma')
    13. Zaynab of Khozayma
    14. Habla
    15. Divorced Asma of Noman / bint al-Nu’man

    Slaves/ Concubines

    16. Mary the Copt/Christian- female slaves gifted by the ruler of Alexandria, not married but bear him a child name Ibrahim
    17. Rayhana/Raihana/Rayhanah bint Zayd/Zaid

    Undetermined Relationship

    18. Divorced Omm Sharik
    19. Maymuna/Maimuna- another slave girl
    20. Zaynab/Zainab the third?
    21. Khawla / Khawlah- al-Tabari vol.9 p.139
    22. Divorced Mulaykah bint Dawud
    23. Divorced al-Shanba’ bint ‘Amr
    24. Divorced al-‘Aliyyah
    25. Divorced ‘Amrah bint Yazid
    26. Divorced an Unnamed Woman
    27. Qutaylah bint Qays (died right away)
    28. Sana bint Sufyan
    29. Sharaf bint Khalifah

      that are mentioned here at http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3049#p50622  stories from hadith.. Stories of  multiple early Islam leaders/Muhammads ....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #7 - October 08, 2017, 01:13 AM

    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"


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     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #8 - October 08, 2017, 01:59 AM

    I don't see how you can be simple or humble or poor if people around you are trying to scoop up your sweat before it hits the ground.
    A simple, humble, poor person wouldn't stand for bullshit like that, one would hope.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #9 - October 08, 2017, 02:20 AM

    historical Muhammad


    So you think there was a historical Muhammed? I've been wondering for a while if the idea of Mo we have historically is a combination of myth and various different people.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #10 - October 08, 2017, 08:55 AM

    ^
    I'd say there isn't much reason to doubt that there was a religious and political leader in Medina known as Muhammad. Beyond that it's hard to separate out historical fact from myth and legend.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #11 - October 08, 2017, 10:41 AM

    ^
    I'd say there isn't much reason to doubt that there was a religious and political leader in Medina known as Muhammad. Beyond that it's hard to separate out historical fact from myth and legend.

    dear zeca .,you are obviously well connected with academia  that explores  Islamic history ., so let me ask you simple  questions here ...

    In the Academic Islamic theology circles.,  What was Prophet of Islam ORIGINAL NAME ?  .. When did it became just "Muhammad"   .....

    If they consider original name  of Islam  prophet as  " Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Abd al-Muttalib".. were there any   persons in and around Arabian peninsula with   a name  as "Muhammad" ..........??

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #12 - October 08, 2017, 10:56 AM

    ^
    I haven't seen anything particularly conclusive on whether 'Muhammad' was a given name or a later epithet. I haven't seen any suggestions of an original name but I may well be missing something. If later sources suggest that the name Muhammad was in use in pre-Islamic times then that's probably true but I'm not sure how conclusive it is without evidence from contemporary inscriptions or non-Arabic sources. I'm not actually an academic or an expert so your guess on all this may be as good or better than mine.
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #13 - October 08, 2017, 11:22 AM

    ^
    I'm not actually an academic or an expert so your guess on all this may be as good or better than mine.

    that  is surprise to me  zeca ,  you have written/mentioned in so many posts with  references from Academics on  published papers.,  Ph.d.. thesis  and  conferences calls on Islam ., I was under the impression that  you are actually working in some university On early Islamic history  or teaching Islamic history

    Quote
    I haven't seen anything particularly conclusive on whether 'Muhammad' was a given name or a later epithet. I haven't seen any suggestions of an original name but I may well be missing something. If later sources suggest that the name Muhammad was in use in pre-Islamic times then that's probably true but I'm not sure how conclusive it is without evidence from contemporary inscriptions or non-Arabic sources.

    on that.,   Here is the question one should explore on Prophet of Islam.

    Is Muhammad of Quran(((hardly mentioned in Quran) ))  same as Muhammad of Hadith ??

    As far as Non- Arabian sources of Islam On "Muhammad"is concerned .. I actually reject and neglect such stories  as they are nothing but  "He  says., I said " stories  that some one wrote it...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #14 - October 10, 2017, 10:05 AM

    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"

    I'd give them a book of hadith.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How would you respond to this?
     Reply #15 - October 10, 2017, 12:06 PM

    Quote
    "Mohamed lived a simple life, he lived like a poor man, he was also humble,  therefore he was a true prophet"

    I'd give them a book of hadith.


    book of hadith. ...  which one  dear QSE? which hadith book dear QSE?  Hadith Qudsi??

    Any way let me  paste alleged life of prophet of Islam in this post ,
      just to remind friends  timeline history of Prophet of Islam from hadith

    Quote
    well Hallakuf left long ago and this thread went down the tube.. completely forgotten .. let me get this on top to inquire in to the history of early Islam and life of prohet of Islam through Quran. So to answer Hallakuf.,    Meccan suras are usually short  with relatively short ayat in comparison with Medinan suras. Another unique nature of Meccan suras are presence of those abbreviated Arabic letters  called Muqatta'at   or  fawātih ("openers" ), They are  are unique their Arabic meaning is meaningless .. I often call them Gibberish and Muslim intellectuals   consider as  divine secrets.

    for e.g they go like this..  [Al Quran ; 15:1]   And I often write my own Quran to those who say that gibberish is divine.. and that goes like this

     a Seen Meem
        Kaf Ha Ya Ein Sad.
        Alif Lam Ra ..
        .Doom ....Dam... DoooomM  .KhaboomM....
        Meem... dum..dum
        ..Ta Ha....
     Alif Lam Mim
     Faa' Qaaf.  


    And  readers.. please don't blame me for that " Faa' Qaaf." Blame REJECTAMONY Hassan Radhwan

    Oh I forgot.. allah you too.... don't blame me ., That guy  Hassan.. he is the bad guy.. Fools write nonsense make it as word of allah/god.. ga.. gooo...spaghetti monster....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60MQ3AG1c8o

    Hmm there is Korean god..  well if I remove letter "e" from Korean it becomes "Koran" .. Koran god from Korea..

    Anyways going back to that post, let me add the life of Prophet of right from the day he was born to death..

    Quote
    571: Birth of the Holy Prophet. Year of the Elephant. Invasion of Makkah by Abraha the Viceroy of Yemen, his retreat.
    577: The Holy Prophet visits Madina with his mother. Death of his mother.
    580: Death of Abdul Muttalib, the grandfather of the Holy Prophet.
    583: The Holy Prophet's journey to Syria in the company of his uncle Abu Talib. His meeting with the monk Bahira at Bisra who foretells of his prophethood.
    586: The Holy Prophet participates in the war of Fijar.
    591: The Holy Prophet becomes an active member of "Hilful Fudul", a league for the relief of the distressed.
    594: The Holy Prophet becomes the Manager of the business of Lady Khadija, and leads her trade caravan to Syria and back.
    595: The Holy Prophet marries Hadrat Khadija.
    605: The Holy Prophet arbitrates in a dispute among the Quraish about the placing of the Black Stone in the Kaaba.

    610: The first revelation in the cave at Mt. Hira. The Holy Prophet is commissioned as the Messenger of God.
    613: Declaration at Mt. Sara inviting the general public to Islam.
    614: Invitation to the Hashimites to accept Islam.
    615: Persecution of the Muslims by the Quraish. A party of Muslims leaves for Abyssinia.
    616: Second Hijrah to Abysinnia.
    617: Social boycott of the Hashimites and the Holy Prophet by the Quraish. The Hashimites are shut up in a glen outside Makkah.
    619: Lifting of the boycott. Deaths of Abu Talib and Hadrat Khadija. Year of sorrow.
    620: Journey to Taif. Ascension to the heavens.
    621: First pledge at Aqaba.

    621-622; Prophet Migrates to Madina
    622: Second pledge at Aqaba. The Holy Prophet and the Muslims migrate to Yathrib.
    623: Nakhla expedition.
    624: Battle of Badr. Expulsion of the Bani Qainuqa Jews from Madina.
    625: Battle of Uhud. Massacre of 70 Muslims at Bir Mauna. Expulsion of Banu Nadir Jews from Madina. Second expedition of Badr.
    626: Expedition of Banu Mustaliq.
    627: Battle of the Trench. Expulsion of Banu Quraiza Jews.
    628: Truce of Hudaibiya. Expedition to Khyber. The Holy Prophet addresses letters to various heads of states.
    629: The Holy Prophet performs the pilgrimage at Makkah. Expedition to Muta (Romans).
    630: Conquest of Makkah. Battles of Hunsin, Auras, and Taif.
    631: Expedition to Tabuk. Year of Deputations.
    632: Farewell pilgrimage at Makkah.
    632: Death of the Holy Prophet

    That is the life of Prophet of Islam.  So looking in to the Quran and his life .,  From the first alleged revelation in the year  610 to the day allegedly he was migrated to Madina in the year 622, ~4700 verses verses of Quran was reveled in those  13 years ..   ~ 362 verses a year.. average ONE VERSE A DAY  .. great

    And in the rest of 10 years ~1400 verses were allegedly revealed . that is ~140 verses a year that means   some 2 verses comes out of Prophet of Islam every 5 days..  That is what it is..  I mean that is average...


    SHOULD  I TRUST HADITH??  
    SHOULD I TRUST QURAN??   
    who was Prophet of Islam??
    errr..  big Al knows the best....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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