Safe spaces

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- AGirlWithDoubts
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Safe spaces
OP - November 22, 2017, 12:24 AM

Are you for or against them?

I'm not here to judge anyone, I just want to know what you all think, as I have noticed some conflict lately. Why do you support/oppose them? Why is this important to you?

My instinct is to oppose them because they make me feel rather helpless and on the defensive. I would rather leave opponents feeling as though they're the ones who need a safe space. That's always much more satisfying.

That being said I recognise that a lot of ex-Muslims have it much worse than I do. Some people don't like conflict and just want to be someplace where they can voice their opinions and worries without having to deal with any of that. I guess that there is a time and place for everything. I just worry that we might end up shutting ourselves away and our voices might not be heard as a result.
- Absurdist
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Safe spaces
Reply #1 - November 22, 2017, 06:10 AM

As someone who struggles with mental health issues, I think safe spaces are very important. I need a place to be able to talk about my issues. Many, many people are unsupportive and I cannot trust them with my life. Some are dismissive, some are outright inconsiderate with their awful advice. Like there are some people in my life I'd really rather not talk to about my issues, and that's something I've learnt through experience. Sometimes I wish I can just be more open about things with certain people and wish they'd be supportive, but they're just incredibly harmful to my mental health and well-being.

I think of safe spaces in a very abstract way. I always think of my relationships in terms of them being a safe space or not.

Although that can also extend into the more physical realm. A support group can be comprised of relationships but also act as a physical safe space where people get together and support each other without judgment.

I agree with you that building a safe space can be a defensive measure, especially when it's the kind that isolates you from the rest of the community/world. But the truth is that some people already feel isolated. Having a safe space, no matter how defensive, is always better than struggling alone.

It's great that some people manage to deal with the shit in life and don't need a safe space. I don't hold that against them. But it's unfair to put that expectation on everyone. To be honest, it feels like a bootstrap mentality: I did it and so can you. Different people have different needs. People can't measure others' needs against their own. That's unempathetic.
- AGirlWithDoubts
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Reply #2 - November 22, 2017, 10:54 AM

You raise some very good points, Absurdist. A lot of people don't see it that way and view safe spaces as spaces where people go to discuss mutual political stances and where they do not have to hear opposing views. I myself have been guilty of this, which is why I have been looking to gain a better understanding of why some people prefer safe spaces.

Just about every organisation (excluding the government) has certain viewpoints that it does not permit. When I became a CEMB member (of the organisation itself, not the forum) it said that people with far-right inclinations were not welcome, and that's understandable. Do these organisations qualify as safe spaces? You're right in that it's sometimes hard to determine exactly what a safe space is.
- yeezevee
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Safe spaces
Reply #3 - November 22, 2017, 01:33 PM

Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 22, 2017, 10:54 AM
.............people with far-right inclinations .................

Far right or far left.........it is true you can not have many of such characters in any forum/organization as it becomes difficult to respond/control such Monkey brigade., but having few.... interacting and educating them will immensely help the society in a long run as they too are smart enough to look at other side of the picture...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- three
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Safe spaces
Reply #4 - November 23, 2017, 04:01 AM

I am for them. Because I have only felt safe at stretches in my life and it would have been nice to have a place to go and not be worried about my safety. They didn't exist when I was a child and that is a shame.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- Absurdist
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Reply #5 - November 23, 2017, 05:50 AM

Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 22, 2017, 10:54 AM
Just about every organisation (excluding the government) has certain viewpoints that it does not permit. When I became a CEMB member (of the organisation itself, not the forum) it said that people with far-right inclinations were not welcome, and that's understandable. Do these organisations qualify as safe spaces? You're right in that it's sometimes hard to determine exactly what a safe space is.

Something is a safe space when its members express empathy and openness towards each other. A space space is not determined by the political views in a space/organization. In a sense, political views are irrelevant, because it's not about the listener's personal opinion. When I'm in a safe space and someone talks about their experience, my opinions are irrelevant. What's relevant is showing them empathy and understanding, and if anyone would like to give suggestions or advice, they'd have to do it from the position of the speaker, who has made themselves vulnerable.

The problem in life in general is that people don't know how to be empathetic. And I say "don't know how to be" rather than "are not" because I believe that empathy is a learnt skill. However, most people don't have the capacity to set aside their egos and be open to other people's perspectives. We as humans have the tendency to attach our thoughts to our sense of self, so when someone expresses something that goes against our opinions, we have the urge to respond to protect our egos. Most people don't know how to listen; they just use other people's words as a jumping board to express their views and thus to reinforce their egos. That's why safe spaces are important.
- AGirlWithDoubts
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Reply #6 - November 23, 2017, 06:07 PM

They're not always political, but at times they can be. I say this because people with unsavoury political views tend to hold these views because they lack empathy. Social circles that focus on topics such as racial injustice, LGBT issues or mental health often exclude individuals who are bigoted people within these circles, and that's because these individuals tend to lack empathy, so members would have a harder time with expressing their issues.

An example is how universities and their societies operate; the majority of them are probably what you would call safe spaces. I enjoyed being a member of various societies at uni but as far as some people were concerned the whole university was a safe space and should exclude certain unpleasant individuals. Should it be though? To what extent should a safe space exist?

Quote from: yeezevee on November 22, 2017, 01:33 PM
Far right or far left.........it is true you can not have many of such characters in any forum/organization as it becomes difficult to respond/control such Monkey brigade., but having few.... interacting and educating them will immensely help the society in a long run as they too are smart enough to look at other side of the picture...

I was talking specifically about what I saw on the CEMB website, but other websites have the right to restrict the far-left if that's what they want.
- Absurdist
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Reply #7 - November 23, 2017, 07:27 PM

Should a university expel students if they hold bigoted views? No, I don't think so.

Should a university expel students if their views manifest into violence? Yes, absolutely.

Should a university ban the creation of bigoted organizations? I think that depends on each organization and its aims. If all they want do is protest and hand out pamphlets, so be it. I don't think that's terrible, as much as I would disagree with their views. But if they commit any act of violence, they should be banned.

Should students be allowed to petition defunding them? Yes. At the of the day, the students are the ones paying for those organizations, and they should be able to decide where their money goes.
- yeezevee
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Reply #8 - November 24, 2017, 12:58 PM

Hmm.. this is a good one to keep here...

Former Nazi leader Ingo Hasselbach speaks_BBC News link

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
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Safe spaces
Reply #9 - November 24, 2017, 01:21 PM

Quote
Quote from: yeezevee says on November 22, 2017, 01:33 PM
Far right or far left.........it is true you can not have many of such characters in any forum/organization as it becomes difficult to respond/control such Monkey brigade., but having few.... interacting and educating them will immensely help the society in a long run as they too are smart enough to look at other side of the picture...

Quote from: AGWD speaks on November 23, 2017, 06:07 PM

I was talking specifically about what I saw on the CEMB website, but other websites have the right to restrict the far-left if that's what they want.

but why worry about far right and far-left in CEMB forum? any example from CEMB forum??

sat yeezevee....... is he far right? or far left?? Is he right of AGWD?? or left of AGWD?? lol...

well AGWD I am of the opinion CEMB has plenty of intelligent thoughtful folks who have the ability to counter what you saw on the CEMB website ..
.,
Now as far as restrictions on other websites in comparison with CEMB is concerned CEMB also restricts .. does it not?? for e.g. do you know I can not write in to all the folders of CEMB forum?

Restriction are like double edged sword.,they are good and bad., Often total restriction of certain group folks can make a forum unpopular and even end it.. I have seen that ., CEMB forum does have safe/restricted places/folders., But I still did not understand your point of view in its totality
on this issue.. for e.g. here
Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 23, 2017, 06:07 PM
.....such as racial injustice,
.... LGBT issues
...or mental health ...

often exclude individuals who are bigoted people within these circles, and that's because these individuals tend to lack empathy, so members would have a harder time with expressing their issues.

An example is how universities and their societies operate; the majority of them are probably what you would call safe spaces. I enjoyed being a member of various societies at uni but as far as some people were concerned the whole university was a safe space and should exclude certain unpleasant individuals. Should it be though? To what extent should a safe space exist?

[/quote]don't you think those three are entirely different issues, and the two . LGBT issues
...or mental health.... way far away from the aims and goals of CEMB forum .. let us discuss bit more detail..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- zeca
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Safe spaces
Reply #10 - November 24, 2017, 04:02 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on November 22, 2017, 01:33 PM
Far right or far left.........it is true you can not have many of such characters in any forum/organization as it becomes difficult to respond/control such Monkey brigade., but having few.... interacting and educating them will immensely help the society in a long run as they too are smart enough to look at other side of the picture...

Why should people on the left - such as me - be considered as problematic for the forum? and why should we equated with the far right? What harm have the left ever done here?

Which side are you on?
- AGirlWithDoubts
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Safe spaces
Reply #11 - November 24, 2017, 04:31 PM

Quote from: Absurdist on November 23, 2017, 07:27 PM
Should a university expel students if they hold bigoted views? No, I don't think so.

Should a university expel students if their views manifest into violence? Yes, absolutely.

Should a university ban the creation of bigoted organizations? I think that depends on each organization and its aims. If all they want do is protest and hand out pamphlets, so be it. I don't think that's terrible, as much as I would disagree with their views. But if they commit any act of violence, they should be banned.

Should students be allowed to petition defunding them? Yes. At the of the day, the students are the ones paying for those organizations, and they should be able to decide where their money goes.

I am in two minds here. We had a far-right political figure coming to our university to speak and a lot of people wanted to have him banned. I spent a lot of money on university and of course I didn't want any of it to go into paying for this person's expenses/venue. At the same time I knew that hardly anyone would turn up to listen to him but the more the students complained, the more publicity he would get. Also, if he was banned then he could use this as an excuse to play the victim card. So while I think that the students should be able to petition, I don't want these people to feel as though they are relevant.

Quote from: zeca on November 24, 2017, 04:02 PM
Why should people on the left - such as me - be considered as problematic for the forum? and why should we equated with the far right? What harm have the left ever done here?

This is true. I would classify myself as left-wing, but not far-left. That being said, while I don't agree with everything that the far-left stands for, they mainly focus on economic reform. The far-right are the actual enemy to people like us because they actively campaign for social policies that harm us and people we care about.
- AGirlWithDoubts
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Reply #12 - November 24, 2017, 04:38 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on November 24, 2017, 01:21 PM
but why worry about far right and far-left in CEMB forum? any example from CEMB forum??

sat yeezevee....... is he far right? or far left?? Is he right of AGWD?? or left of AGWD?? lol...

Not the CEMB forum, I am talking about the organisation itself; you need separate membership from the forum in order to join. When you go to the membership section they highlight that they don't want members of far-right organisations joining. You can check it yourself.
- yeezevee
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Reply #13 - November 25, 2017, 05:33 AM

Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 24, 2017, 04:38 PM
Not the CEMB forum, I am talking about the organisation itself; you need separate membership from the forum in order to join. When you go to the membership section they highlight that they don't want members of far-right organisations joining. You can check it yourself.

oh I see ., I know nothing

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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