Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?

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- Mughal
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Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
Reply #210 - November 22, 2024, 06:42 AM

Is the Quran we humans have today from God and is it original? Yes, the Quran we have today is from God and the message in it is original. How do we know that? We know that because its message contains universal moral values for humanity to live and abide by. It advises humanity to live by its advised purpose based proper way of life, rule of law and governing system as a purpose based proper human community in his kingdom. We have many copies of the Quran around the world from different times and places as well as many people who have been committing the Quran to their memories generations after generations. All the copies of the Quran in the human world are the very same except for copying, printing, book binding and other human errors or unintentional mistakes. There is no evidence at all of any deliberately made changes in the text of the Quran to pervert its actual message to serve some other purpose that is opposite of the actual Quranic message. However things need to be looked at in their own solid purpose based proper context and the solid purpose based proper context comes from the universal real world realities as well as the revelations of God when they are both understood by humanity in light of each other purposefully properly. Without making purpose based proper sense of both of these things in light of each other we human beings cannot really claim we understand anything at all as it ought to be understood purposefully properly. We human beings as individuals must do our best to try to make purpose based proper sense of the creation of God as well as of revelation of God by figuring out all the elements or components involved in their all necessary detail. That is we need to figure out the creation of God as a purpose based proper unit and its individual things as well as the Quran as a purpose based proper unit with meanings of its components ie its letters, words, phrases, sentences, surahs or lectures and chapters. So before going into detail of how the Quran proves to be word of God and how the Quran proves to be preserved purposefully properly to begin with it needs to be explained why we human beings need the Quran.

We need the Quran because we human beings cannot get anywhere worth reaching with things just by looking at them aimlessly and randomly and doing nothing much other than living our lives like rest of the animals. It is a very sad situation that the world is full of human beings but most of them just live their lives like rest of the animals or we force each other into living like animals. We cannot change this unless we decide to make each and every member of our human family a very useful person instead of trying to make each other useless people even if it means using incentives and if that does not work then using force to put each other on the right track. We need to do that because otherwise human painful suffering by hands of each other cannot be eliminated if let individuals from among us waste their lives away by thinking, planning and doing useless or distracting and misdirecting things which take us away from this vitally important objective, target, or goal or mission or by their thinking, planning and doing such things which harm and destroy human beings instead of bringing them life worth living. If we will let people do useless or harmful and destructive things to each other then we will end up in a huge loss which will cost us all dearly in form of our terrible painful suffering and destruction by hands of each other when the fact is we need each other to come into this world as well as to survive in a blissful, dignified and secure way in this world as a purpose based proper human community. This is why education, training and skills we need they have to be purpose based proper or they are not going to serve us as they should and instead they will be most troublesome and problematic for us as has been explained in detail already. Just by experimenting with things in the real world we can only learn about things as to how they work and why they do what they do for their continuous existence and survival according to our own baseless assumptions and understanding but we cannot know the actual purpose of their creation by their creator and sustainer nor how they are supposed to work or function or how they are supposed to be used for fulfilling the purpose for which their creator and sustainer has created them. For knowing the overall purpose of creation of things and the way it is supposed to be fulfilled that needs purpose based proper guidance from their creator and sustainer for mankind. This is why need arises for discussion about existence of God and revelation of God because otherwise existence cannot be explained purposefully properly.

As explained already things we observe in the created world tell us they came to existence with time from each other through chain of cause and effect. However, if we look into chain of cause and effect then it does not tell us how all this happened or started because chain of cause and effect is a designed process and not a random aimless and purposeless thing. This is why the question arises, was there ever nothing at all or was there always someone or something there which caused the existence of all that exists? If there was always absolutely nothing at all there then how could anything at all come into existence because whatever was there or not there had to continue forever and ever. It is because original state of existence or nonexistence could not change all by itself without some intelligent agent being there to change it. It is because things exist and they exist due to being designed that way therefore it is proof of existence of their creator and sustainer. This creator and sustainer had to be uncreated and ever existing or we end up with nothing at all and that cannot be true at all and it is not true because we the created and sustained beings are already here. Some people say the first cause has to be the simplest possible but that cannot be true because whatever is ever existing cannot be someone or something simple rather that has to be much more complex than what it created and sustains. Some people raise question about God as to who created God if all existing things need a creator and sustainer to come into existence and remain in existence. This question is logically inconsistent because if God also needs a creator then can that created God be God? Not at all. Likewise if we take the chain of creators of creators, then, each and every creator of a creator will also need to be even more complex, sophisticated and powerful than the one it creates so where do we end up? Back to square one. Likewise there are many questions people raise about being of God which are nothing more than nonsense. It is because only and only those questions are sensible which are purposefully proper. Random and aimless questions serve no purpose at all save showing the level of ignorance people have about thinking things through logically consistently. For example, people ask, who created God? Can God kill himself or die? Did God come into existence all by himself? Can God have family? Can God change his nature of being? Can God create something which he cannot manage or handle or with which he cannot deal or cope effectively etc etc?

The need for revelation of God for mankind also becomes clear by looking at humanity because we can clearly see how we work and why we think, plan and do what we do and the end result of thinking, planning and doing that. That is how we end up not trusting one another at all and we think, plan and do to each other what harms and destroys us by hands of each other. If we will continue living that way then we will continue suffering the very same fate by hands of each other for securing our own individual petty personal gains from each other at each other’s expense. Due to lack of trust we try to hide things from each other for fear of their loss. This leads us to invent newer and newer ways of saving our things from each other so that we are not robbed or dispossessed by each other or that our things are not stolen by each other. This fear can never go away till we create a human society in which we learn to trust each other purposefully properly. Just by our inventions of better and better locks and keys we cannot teach people to trust each other but if anything we are teaching each other how not to trust one another. This means we are living our lives the very wrong way and this wrong way of living is ruining us and forcing us to waste our lives on wrong kind of education, training and skills for all the wrong reasons. Due to this way of life we are always watching our own backs fearing that any one of us can back stab us or double cross us at any point in time. This is where our so far adopted education and training system as well as the skills we have gained from it have led us. We have managed to invent some medicines but people are always dying after terrible painful suffering worldwide because we have adopted a way of living our lives whereby all this does not bother us because we are keeping our things locked away out of reach of many in our human world. This being the case, can any of us claim to be a civilised person or a civilised human society? No, not at all. This clearly shows how we try our best to pretend we are civilised good people when the reality of the human world we have created or brought about is staring us in the face and calling us liars.

All this because we have ignored the right way of living our lives in this world. That right way of life is told for us only and only by our creator and sustainer in his message for us which he has given us for being a purpose based proper human community so that then we could bring about a human world that reflects life of paradise in this world. Let us ask ourselves some questions to help us understand why we humans need guidance of God to live in this world purposefully properly. If we read the Quran, we are repeatedly told all things belong to God. This means nothing at all belongs to anyone else. If nothing belongs to anyone else then who has any right to have anything at all? None. In fact we human beings ourselves are made by God therefore we ourselves do not own ourselves let alone anything else in this world. This being the case who can tell us who brought us about and why or why we have what we have? Only and only our creator and sustainer. This is why learning the message of our creator and sustainer for us is of utmost important for us so that we get the full picture as to what is going on and where do we fit-in in all this grand scheme of things. God has given us his message to tell us all what is vitally important for us to know to have a great life in this world as a purpose based proper human community in his kingdom. Moreover he has given us the whole of his kingdom to make best use of all that he has given us in there.

We have heard people saying to each other, don't play God. The Quran tells people that God has created people to play God ie by showing our creativity through deconstructing what God has made and reconstructing it the way it benefits humanity the best. This is why we use God provided things as raw materials to make things from them which we find useful for ourselves eg we cut down trees and make use of them in various ways including making houses and furniture etc ertc. However humans do play God the wrong way as well ie they try to control each other for their personal gains at each other's expense and that is where playing God is not allowed by God. This is why it is called SHIRK or polytheism. It is not that people actually become Gods but that they are not allowed to make decisions against God's decisions and act upon them and thereby cause problems for each other. It is because you can only live by your own way of life or by way of life which God has advised for humanity. Living by way of life advised by God is about using God provided things the way God has advised and not misusing them or mismanaging them. By using God provided things God's way people can add value to things whereby they appreciate things in their value or worth in their own eyes as well as fulfil the purpose of God for which he has created them but by misusing and mismanaging them or using them abusively they devalue God provided things in the eyes of humanity as well as in the eyes of God. So one can see how vitally important it is for humanity to live by way of life advised for it by God and not to deliberately live by way of life one chooses for oneself or one will end up causing all sorts of troubles, not only for others but for oneself as well because what goes round comes round sooner or later. This is why if anyone claims to be a civilised person or society one has to be judged by this criterion alone. Guidance of God must be appreciated because God made the world and he knows each and everything thing about it in all its possible detail so who can be better than God in advising us as to how people can fit in with this world the best. This is why the Quran challenges mankind to bring a better book than the Quran if you are in any doubt about it ie bring a book which tells you a better way of life, a better rule of law and a better governing system than the ones told by the Quran. People don't yet really know what kind of way of life, rule of law and governing system the Quran teaches them so how can they bring about any better ones? The first thing one needs to know about something is, what it is and only then there is a chance of bringing something better. So if even the Quran is not yet understood purposefully properly by humanity so far then how can it bring about anything like it till it does? We have invented so many kinds of dangerous weapons to harm or destroy each other yet we have not used our brains to make purpose based proper sense of what is of utmost importance. That is how clever we are as a species.

Anyway before I explain the issue of originality of the Quran we need to become aware of some points which are often neglected or not given attention they deserve and as a result we end up confusing ourselves instead of understanding the issues or points. When we talk about God, people and rest of things, it is vitally important for a person to realise that each and every existing being has to play its own part or role including God in this grand scheme of things. Likewise when it comes to revelation of God, God plays his role and people play their roles so the end result is what we have. We know God is free of making errors or mistakes but human beings are human beings so they are not necessarily free of making human error in their thoughts or actions. From God's point of view the Quran can never have any errors at all because God does not make mistakes but from human beings' points of views the Quran cannot be necessarily error free because humans are prone to making human errors. The proof is simple, ask a person who knows the Quran by heart to read it and listen to it and soon you will come to know that the person does get stuck here and there. However when one makes a mistake if there is another person there as well who has also committed the Quran to his memory then he will correct him. Likewise whenever we write down things we do end up making mistakes but when we reread things or ask someone else to read what we have written the mistakes we make are caught and if need be they are corrected. So just as people make errors so people can detect those errors and not only detect them but if they so choose they can also correct them. All correctable errors therefore can be ignored as errors or mistakes. This is why as far as practicality or pragmatism is concerned there are no errors in the Quran at all because they can be detected and corrected if humanity so decides. When God says he will preserve the Quran this is what it means because it cannot be any other way. No human is free of possibility of making human errors because our whole life is based upon idea of learning by trial and error method. Just bring to your mind when you were just a baby or watch any other baby growing and soon you will come to know how many mistakes we humans make and repeatedly till we become learned and wise after a lot of practice. So as we grow we do overcome a lot of mistakes or in other words we grow out of those mistakes. So let us now look at the Quranic copies that we have around the world in a bit of detail to see how the existing copies of the Quran prove to us human beings that the Quran we have today is original and all claims by ignorant people that the Quran has been changed are false.

Regardless let us first look at the way the Quran was written down in ancient format of writing. If one gathers ancient copies of the Quran that still exist today around the world, one will see in them a particular or a special way of writing the Quranic text. For example, in those copies we will see that they do not have short or very long vowel marks as well as various other marks. Such as are called tashdeed, madda, jazm, damma, kasra or fatha etc etc in Arabic. They also have no dots in them to distinguish some alike shaped letters from each other. One can clearly see that BAA, TAA, SAA etc use exactly the same shape of a letter. Likewise JEEM, HAA and KHAA use the very same letter shape, DAAL and ZAAL, RAA and ZAA, SEEN and SHEEN, SWAAD and DWAAD, TWAA and ZWAA, AIN and GHAIN, FAA and QAAF are written using the very same shape. This is most important point to note. The question one has to ask oneself is, is it possible for any person at all to read such a text that is written down this way unless one already knows the actual message in this kind of text format? My answer is, no, it cannot be read no matter how hard one tries unless one is already very much familiar with the message in the text. What does this prove beyond a shadow of doubt? It proves the Quran we have today in its written form has come from the original source ie directly from the final prophet and messenger of God. Not only that it also proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the Quran we have today was transmitted by the final prophet and messenger of God in two completely independent ways or channels. a) through memory ie people had committed the Quran to their memories directly from the final prophet and messenger of God and b)through writing and again directly from the final prophet and messenger of God. The vitally important points in this regard for people to understand are: The way the Quranic text was written down could not be read unless the Quranic text was fully memorised by people. If anyone thinks it could be read then go ahead and try it yourself in your very own mother tongue. Ask someone to write something down for you in that format without telling you what one is writing and then you try and read it yourself. You will soon find out that you cannot make any head or tail of such a text in its written format. But how does this prove the Quran we have today is original? It is because the Quranic text we find in the existing copies of the Quran proves, it could not have been written down by people from their own memories alone as individuals. Not only that but one can try and do so oneself and one will fail badly even today. So the claim by Muslims that they can recreate the Quranic text merely from their memories if all written copied of the Quran somehow became destroyed is false. Why? Because there are some particular problems which people face when someone dictates the Quranic text from one's memory for others to write or copy it down in writing. The question is, what are those problems?

Those problems are different ways of writing a particular piece of Quranic information. For example, if I tell a group of people in a place to write down a number eg number three. Will the person write 3 as a digit or as a word three? You will agree that some could write it down 3 as a digit and others could write it down as a word three. This is why if the Quran was copied the same way from dictation by someone from one's memory then people could write it down in different ways. Likewise if I told a person to write down ALAF then one could end up writing down the letter alaf or the word alaf or number one because alaf also has an alphanumerical value, which is one or1. In the quran we have many surahs which contain some letters in their beginnings eg surah 2 al baqarah starts with ALAF, LAAM and MEEM letters. So if a group of people was told to write down alaf, laam, meem then what do you think people will write down? Letters alaf, laam and meem or words alaf laam meem? Then in Arabic language we have some words that can be written with different spellings or letters eg word SIRAAT can be written either by using letter SEEN or SWAAD. So if a group of people were told to write down word SIRAAT what do you think people will write down? SIRAAT with letter SEEN or siraat with letter SWAAD? You will agree that some will write down word siraat with letter seen and others will write down word siraat with letter swaad. The same is true in case of words like BASTATUN or MUSAITIR etc ie they too can be written using either of the letters ie seen or swaad. Again you will be forced by reason to agree that some could write down these words with letters seen and others with letter swaad. It is just as we write an English word REALISE with letters S or Z ie REALIZE. Not only this but there are borrowed words in each and every human language from other languages which can be written down in different ways eg see in English in how many different ways people spell word MUHAMMAD or QURAAN ie they write it as mohammed or mohamed and so on and so forth or QURAN or KORAN etc etc. Can you therefore see the problems when people have to read a text from an awkward way of writing without having it in their memories? Likewise can you see the problems if a group of people is told to write some information down from their memories? This will create a lot of variations or differences between people whether they memorise some information or write it down unless they memorised it and wrote it down exactly the same way right from the very beginning or original source. This is how the Quran proves to be preserved perfectly and purposefully properly beyond a shadow of doubt.

Now the big question, in the existing copies of the Quran worldwide which are from different times and places, do we find any such fatal differences at all? The answer is no, none at all. They are all exactly the same anyone can check them from anywhere in the human world. This is impossible to happen unless all copies of the Quran were copied from the copies exactly the same way. This explanation proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the Quran we have today is exactly the same. This claim can also be verified by looking at the Quranic text in written form and reading it out from one's memory. Despite coming down to us in two completely independent ways or channels the overall Quranic information remains exactly the same. A clear proof that the Quran we have today has been preserved perfectly and purposefully properly except for some copying mistakes or errors by the copiers of the Quran or printing errors by the printers of the Quranic copies or book binding errors by those who bound the printed pages of the Quran in the book form the wrong way etc etc.

This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the claims made by ignorant Muslims and non-Muslims about the changed Quran are utterly false. Muslims have been spreading false information about the Quran in order to defend confusing reports in the Ahaadith books and non-Muslims have been using the very same reports to discredit the final prophet and messenger of God, the Quran and Islam etc. Before I move onto errors in the copies of the Quran around the world, it should be born in minds of people that God works with his creatures in the world he has created. This is why when God plays his part in wider scheme of things he makes no mistakes but his human creatures have no immunity against making unintentional mistakes called human errors. Even though God revealed his message to his final prophet and messenger in the form of the Quran and his prophet and messenger preserved it perfectly in form of a memorised information as well as in form of a written piece of information and passed it on through his supporters generation after generation his supporters did make copying errors during this transmission process. However as it is possible for human beings to make unintentional errors so it is possible for them to detect those errors and if they choose they can correct them as well therefore actual message of God does not suffer in such a way that it could be totally and completely invalidated or discredited. It is a fact that the Quranic copies that still exist worldwide contain scribal, printing and book binding errors. Such copies always existed and they are nothing new but it is time that I explained what are the features or characteristics or properties of these kinds of errors or why or how they occurred, remained and continued increasing till better ways came about to preserve the message and to minimise such errors in it. They will become totally eliminated once Muslims become an ummah again. These errors or mistakes occur when a person is copying a text from another copy of a written text. It is possible that a person puts extra letters or words or phrases in the text of the copy one is making or preparing. One can also omit letters or words or phrases and even sentences or paragraphs or pages by looking at one copy and turning the pages of the other copy from which one is copying. One may end up copying a letter or word or sentence or even a page more than once. Likewise when one is binding pages of a written text in form of a book, one may end up missing some pages or putting extra pages or one may end up putting the pages in wrong order or upside down etc etc. It is because human mind does not remain fully attentive at all times when one is doing something continuously. This is how human errors occur or take place and are found in almost each and every copy of the Quran. In the printed copies printing related errors occur eg misprints are found in copies even today.

The good thing is such errors are always detectable and are detected by people who read the Quran from those copies and inform the publishers or printers or scribes of the copies. These errors are detectable because of their fixed characteristics. Such errors are also correctable because they are clearly obvious. It is because if any letters are added to words or are omitted from the words then words cannot be read correctly as words. Likewise additions and omissions or disordering of words in sentences render sentences senseless and if any pages are missed then continuity of the text becomes disturbed. So just as preventing human errors is not possible for human beings so human beings are good at detecting human errors. It is then up to people to correct these correctable errors or not to bother but make later copies better. This is what printers and publishers do ie they correct errors made in earlier copies of the books in later copies they produce of the same text. No doubt the Quran claims that the Quran will remain intact but since God does things through things so where people are involved in program of God things will happen the way they should. God does not make mistakes through absent mindedness or lack of attention but people do therefore when it comes to people they can make mistakes in memorising or copying the Quran but they can also detect and correct those mistakes they may make in this regard. All because only God is God and humans can only be humans at their best. Humans are not supernatural beings otherwise such errors by human beings could not have taken place at all. This is how the Quranic text has been kept in its original form by God and his human creatures. These like things also expose such people who claim supernatural powers among religious folk and foolish people who flock around them looking for all kinds of miraculous or magical help from them which they cannot do. If religious holy people or saints for that matter had any supernatural powers will they not make sure there are no any copying errors in their God sent holy books supernaturally? What else could be more important for them than doing that? Likewise if holy people could move about freely between the heaven and the earth or if they could control any supernatural hidden beings, could they then not tell us how the world looked like from up high very long ago as scientist have discovered it today? Their such claims are clearly false and only foolish people accept their nonsense and take it seriously due to their ignorance and lack of knowledge. Moreover if human beings had any superpowers they will have interpreted the book from God correctly right from the very beginning and there will not be any need for its reinterpretations all the time as humanity learns more and more sense because of making new discoveries through its continuous explorations. All this clearly shows people have been raising false claims always and that we need to become sensible enough to become aware of them and disregard them instead of being fooled by them.

The other facts people must realise about the Quranic text are, its text has a unique style the way it is put together and read out as a speech or lecture or talk and likewise it has its own unique written style as well which does not follow normal writing styles. Moreover any errors in any copy of the Quran are always correctable because copies with errors can be compared with each other as all copies cannot necessarily have exactly the same errors in them from all times and places. Moreover later copies can be compared with the earlier ones if need be and vice versa. Not only that but written copies can be tested against memorised version and the memorised version can be tested against the written version. However such exercises should be carried out every now and then by people at ummah level and not at individual level. At individual level people should inform the authorities responsible for publishing of the Quranic text to keep the scribal, printing or book binding errors to a bare minimum. Unintentional human errors in the copies of the Quran make no difference to the validity of the Quranic text because the original message of the Quran as a whole remains intact despite such kind of errors. There is no proof at all in the existing copies of the Quran around the world for any deliberate changes in the Quranic message. All errors found in the existing copies of the Quran are unintentional and not deliberate. Unintentional errors occur from human beings naturally but to make deliberate changes one has to have an agenda to make purpose based changes in a piece of information to suit one's agenda so that the agenda or purpose of the existing information could be diverted from what it is, to what serves the agenda of the person who makes deliberate changes to the information. There is no sign of such fatal changes in any existing copy of the Quran around the world. This is a clear proof that the Quranic text has been preserved perfectly and purposefully properly for all practical purposes. Human errors found in the copies do not invalidate the originality of the Quranic text as we have it.

So far why some of the errors occurred in the Quranic text has been explained but how they kept on increasing remains to be explained. As explained already how errors occurred in the Quranic text some people have used these errors and corrections to claim variant readings of the Quran which are taken by ignorant Muslims and non-Muslims alike as different versions of the Quranic text. In fact so called Muslims go a step further and claim God has revealed the Quran in so many different versions. The problem with such claims is, there is no any such proof in the Quran itself that God has revealed the Quran in so many different versions. No sensible person can expect that God will reveal a number of versions of the Quran yet he will fail to mention them in the Quran. Moreover what sensible purpose could those versions serve which the version we have could not? Then we are told these versions could be any number of versions eg seven or ten or thirty or more. What it means is that we have only one version with us and all the rest are lost. So we have lost six parts if there were seven versions or twenty-nine parts if there were thirty versions etc etc. All this means there were never any different versions of the Quran to begin with. How could God ignore mentioning his revealed versions if he did reveal them? Also why God needed to reveal different multiple versions? By looking at information which is categorised as different versions of the Quran one can understand the mistake people made in their understanding of things in this regard. People who talk about different readings or different versions of the Quran show they had no idea about origin and development of human language or how human errors occur in a message or how people come together and fall apart and how all this effects what kinds of changes in things. Had they understood such things clearly then they could not have called copies of the Quran with errors as different versions of the Quran. The other fact is, the Quranic text is fixed but it can have various parallel meanings, interpretations and explanations as already explained and they all fit in with each other when they are looked at purposefully properly. So these variations cannot be taken as different readings and versions of the actual Quranic text but as eloquence of the Quranic text. That is because some words are more capable of expressing more intended meanings for clarity of things whereas other words are better at expressing precise meanings and uses. It is because the very same word can have many different meanings and uses as well as so many intended meanings therefore those meanings can be expressed by using the very same word which reduces need for extra text. That is because some words are more comprehensive as well as some words are more precise. This is why some words can be used in places of other words because they can serve the intended purposes better in a text.

Let us now try and understand some other basic things which are also vitally important in this regard. People who come together from different backgrounds or areas clearly show the problems when they try to talk to each other. For example, try and see how an Arab speaks in English or try and see how a Punjabi person speaks English. It shows that people who are used to speaking their own mother tongue if they are not brought up speaking a different language then this could cause them problems when they try to speak a different language after their growing up because their minds and bodies become programmed that way. This is why it takes a lot of conscious practice to change habits when such a need arises because mind and body parts become programmed with practice. For example, if we have developed some bad habits during growing up they stay with us for lifetime. If anything needs changing it becomes a big problem. We can develop bad habits for driving the car and if we are forced to change them then we have to consciously work at them till we have replaced them. The same is the case with human languages. Ask an Indian Punjabi person to say word TABLE, he will say TEVAL. He will find it easier to say WAA instead of BAA. ask him to say ZERO, he will say JEERO. Likewise if we ask an Arab to say Pakistan, he will say Bakistan. If we ask an Englishman to say letter TAA as it is in Arabic, he will say taa as it is in word tea because there is no Arabic TAA sound in English language. The same is true about people who claim to speak the same language ie they have their own local meanings for certain words.

So people need to become aware of the fact that just because we give a name to a language and its people it does not mean all speakers of that same language speak exactly the same language exactly the same way or with exactly the same understanding or meanings of words etc etc. There occur many variations about it between the people of different areas. If we talk about letters or alphabet set of Arabic, we will see people wrote letters in different ways eg different Arabs wrote letter FAA differently ie some placed a dot above it and others below it. Likewise different people pronounced Arabic letters differently eg ask an Egyptian to say letter JEEM, he will say GEEM. He will pronounce letter J like the letter G as it sounds in word JUG. Likewise for some Iraqi or Kuwaiti Muslims letter QAAF sounds like letter GAAF. In Urdu language we have both sounds. So these linguistic differences are also found in the Quranic copies. Why? Because there was a time when Muslims were a single purpose based proper human community during lifetime of the final prophet and messenger of God but then after him they fell apart into rival groups so their future generations did things according to their own smaller communities as they saw fit. This is why there occurred differences between copies of the Quran. These differences increased with time as people divided more and more into smaller and smaller groups. This is why these differences which are of minor nature cannot become eliminated till Muslims see the need for a central authority between them for this purpose or they reunite as an ummah once again and remain united. Now if on this basis one claims different readings or different versions of the Quran then they are as many versions of the Quran as many copies of the Quran there are or one can find. But as I already explained these sort of errors do not invalidate the Quran because if a learned or knowledgeable Muslim sits down and tries to correct all these errors then one can easily do that as explained in detail already. Likewise if Muslims decided to have a central authority for this task that too can carry out such a work.

It is because every now and again some individuals have been writing books which contain all the needed information as to how or when certain errors occurred or why. So its only a matter of doing things in reverse order to undo them. This is why the Quran remains intact for all practical purposes and if anyone claims that the Quran has been changed then one is clearly mistaken or lying due to some agenda against humanity due to one's ignorance about the actual issue. It is because there is no any fatal problem with text of the Quran and its transmission at all. The only problem with the actual text of the Quran is, its purpose based proper understanding by humanity which it has not undertaken yet as it should have and that is only because people are not yet bothered with preparing themselves purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon its purpose based proper guidance purposefully properly so that they could reach heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence as a purpose based proper human community in this world in kingdom of their creator and sustainer and so that they could have yet better hereafter as promised by the Quran for all their very hard works in here in this world. Not only the Quran has been misinterpreted and misrepresented according to the prevailing superstitious beliefs and practices of humanity but so have been misinterpreted and misrepresented Hadith and Fiqh whereas they were supposed to be explained in light of real world realities because the Quran repeatedly tells humanity to do that by telling mankind about the purpose for which it has been revealed for them by God which is all about explaining the real world realities in sense of their purpose of creation and the way that purpose can be fulfilled by mankind by their purpose based proper use of them by them. The day mankind start making sense of these purpose based proper sources of information purposefully properly their problems with each other will become solved and the human world will become and remain the way it should be ie united, peaceful, progressive and prosperous and so God will become and remain pleased with his human creatures for carrying out his provided purpose based proper program for them and humans will become and remain pleased with their creator and sustainer for giving them his purpose based proper program to carry out by accomplishing its goals according to his provided guidelines and so people will become and remain pleased with each other as well. All this is told in the Quran already.

I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
- Mughal
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
Reply #211 - November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Deen of Islam is anti religion and anti secularism but why?

It is because religion and secularism both are man-made and they have been brought about by dominant and leading people to cause harm and destruction to rest of people in human populations for securing their own individual petty personal gains from them so deen of Islam was revealed by God for humanity so that mankind replace them with it for ensuring their own well being through help and full support of each other by complementing each other purposefully properly according to it instead of rivalling each other for securing their own individual petty personal gains from each other at each other’s expense. As I explained already religion and secularism are almost as old as humanity itself because mankind were not given purpose based proper guidance by God till human beings could understand things and at least some were able to make purpose based proper sense of creation and revelation of God in light of each other purposefully properly. Early humans learned what they learned from natural world because they did not have any other source of learning. This is why they lived just like other animals but as they interacted with each other and with other things in their environment, they did learn a lot of sense by copying other things but it was not enough to help them live in this world purposefully properly till God gave humanity his purpose based proper guidance for this purpose. People did believe in a higher force or being even before God formerly introduced himself to mankind but they assumed a God who was just like their rulers who solved their problem the way it suited the rulers and not the way it suited people they ruled. The animal kingdom shows us our past very clearly and we are still like those animals even today. God sent revelation is still ignored by humanity at large for its purpose based proper understanding because rulers always interpreted and explained the messages of God the way it suited them instead of trying to make purpose based proper sense of it. This is why due to lack of purpose based proper education and training humanity has been going through bloody revolutions every now and then to change things for the better. In other words people have been learning things the hard way instead of learning sense of making purpose based proper sense of things the right way. This is why despite having guidance from God and many prophets and messengers from God almost all people are still as ignorant and stupid about message of God as were the very early human beings who were given the message of God the very first time.

The prophets and messengers of God were sent by God to establish his advised purpose based proper way of life, rule of law and governing system in the human world in kingdom of God and they succeeded in doing that but only in very limited areas and only for a short time because people turned back to their old ways of life, rules of law and governing systems after their God sent prophets and messengers passed away. The very same happened with the people who claim to be supporters of mission of the final prophet and messenger of God ie people who call themselves Muslims. This is why even after the final prophet and messenger of God established the ummah (the purpose based proper human community) in the kingdom of God it also fell apart not long after prophet and messenger of God because people failed to keep up with the maintenance of the ummah in the kingdom of God. This is why even though we have the Quran we have no ummah but only in the name till humanity comes to its senses and learns the Quran as it ought to be learned once again to reunite to regain unity, peace, progress and prosperity. This should help people understand why Muslims are the way they are and this is not going to change till each and every person who claims to be a Muslim starts learning the Quran purposefully properly. This is why almost all people who claim to be Muslims are religious and secular Muslims and not actual Muslims based upon the purpose based proper teachings of the Quran and the reason is they do not study the Quran as it ought to be studied for establishing an ummah in a place in the kingdom of God. People who claim to be Muslims are as ignorant about the message of God as are any non-Muslim people if not more. This is why Muslims and non-Muslims are all living like animals in a jungle because that is how senseless people are supposed to live without purpose based proper guidance from God or without purpose based proper understanding of guidance from God. This is why the human world despite all its amazing inventions it has invented is still just like a kingdom of animals who still do not know how to live purposefully properly with one another and it will not know how to do that till it rediscovers message of God purposefully properly for itself because only and only purpose based proper message of God and its purpose based proper understanding can ensure unity, peace, progress and prosperity of mankind in a place in the kingdom of God and nothing else.

Why five daily prayers are wrong? It is because to begin with they serve no useful purpose for God or humanity. They are used by people for praising God by words of mouth and asking God for things they need. People can only praise God when they see need for praising God so they cannot be forced to praise God. Feelings of people keep changing moment by moment. At one time they like doing something but at another time they do not feel like doing something. So God cannot bind people to any strict practice when it serves no purpose for them. Also God cannot tell or force people to praise him because it cannot reflect nicely on God to do so. It is like a person is pointing a gun to someone’s head and telling him to say I am a very nice person. What kind of praising will that be which is forced out of someone by force. In case of God, he has to prove himself awesome to mankind to be truly praiseworthy in their eyes. He has to force people by his wonderful and awesome acts and works that people all by themselves appreciate greatness of his creativity. So praising and appreciating God’s greatness has to be an automatic and natural act of people. It is like you come across something wonderful a person has created and you appreciate it as well as its creator. For this reason God could never tell people to praise him. As for praying to God for seeking things from him, again God could not tell people to do so and then do not fulfil their requests or demands. God could only tell people to pray to him for things if he could respond to their prayers not otherwise. So the idea that God has ordered mankind to praise God and pray to him for things has been created by someone who lacked sense of making purpose based proper sense of things. The Quran does contain such sayings by the prophets and messengers of God as well as of other people but they are their wishes which are expressed by them to God. There is nothing wrong with expressing one’s hopes and desires or wishes and ambitions so long as they are not against God and humanity but instead they are for the good of mankind. For example, when we travel to some place, we wish for having a safe journey. When we start a project we wish for its completion etc etc. Moreover when our wishes come true or things happen as we wished then we express gratitude to God as well as other people and things which help us complete the project. In doing so we express our feelings with various depths not mere empty words which are forced out of our minds and mouths by force against our will. This is why five times daily prayers are not stated in the Quran.

Another reason why they are not stated in the Quran is because God did not create mankind to humiliate them just as he himself does not want to be called by bad names for he wants mutual respect between himself and mankind. Just as God wants to be appreciated by mankind so God himself appreciates mankind also when they think, plan and do something which needs to be appreciated and valued. God is not a monster or tyrant or bully or a cruel and brutal oppressor of the weak. This is why the whole process of creation of God needs to be looked at in a purposeful way in its entirety. This is why God rewards all for whatever part they play in his scheme of things. This is why God does not want worship in sense of pooja from mankind through empty lip service and useless ritual practices which benefit neither God nor mankind. He does not want empty lip service and flattering from mankind but actual appreciation from mankind by giving them things that truly make him appreciable for mankind. I will try and explain words a bit later as to what they mean in the purpose based proper context of the Quran including word SHUKR from root SHEEN, KAAF and RAA which means appreciation by means of purpose based proper use of God given things. Moreover it makes no sense the way people pray to God or say thank you God without doing the actual things God demands of them ie proper use of his provided things for benefit of mankind for sake of God. God has told people what he wants of them in the Quran. What God wants of people could not be known by people all by themselves unless God himself told them, this is why understanding the Quran purposefully properly is absolutely necessary for mankind otherwise they can think, plan and do what they like but it will not fulfil the purpose for which God has created and equipped mankind with all the tools and things to work with. This is why purpose based proper understanding of the Quran cannot be ignored if people want to have a great life in here as well as in hereafter. This is why whatever people think, plan and do in the name of God outside of the Quran all by themselves is not valid at all in the eyes of God and it hardly benefits humanity itself. For the reasons explained already the Quran does not talk about imposition of five times daily prayers at all. This is why it does not mention at all what is supposed to be involved in daily prayers ie what is to be recited in the ritual prayers and when as well as what are to be the ritualistic movements during the prayers and how they are supposed to be performed and in which order etc etc. In fact there is no mentions of such daily prayers and how they are supposed to be performed even in the Ahaadith books as a single continuous process. This should prove beyond a shadow of doubt for any sensible person to see the fact that five daily ritual prayers have nothing at all to do with the actual Quranic text and actual way of life, actual rule of law and actual governing system called Islam. The same is true about the rest of four so called ritual pillars of Islam of mullahs ie ritual prayer kind of worship of one true God, fasting for God, paying a bit of wealth in form of charity to poor people for God and visiting a stone structure called kaaba in Makkah in Saudi Arabia. All these like beliefs and practices are very harmful and destructive for humanity due to wasting time of people as well as due to misdirecting and misguiding people from actual objectives and goals which God has set for humanity to achieve and accomplish so that it could reach heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence in here as well as in hereafter.

So first of all let us see what so called praying to God involves. It has two parts. Part one involves praising God ie saying nice things about God to God as if to fool God by flattery by paying lip service to God. Why I say lip service? It is because we humans do not try to learn things which could help us understand the Quran purposefully properly so that we could know what God wants of us to think, plan and do. This is why we do not think, plan and do what God has told us to do and instead we do things which he has told us not to do. Yet we turn towards God and say things to God about God which do not really mean anything at all. Moreover God has created us to serve him by thinking, planning and doing whatever he has asked us to think, plan and do and not to take God as our slave or servant by asking God to do this or that and the other for us. We do this as if we are not workers or servants of God rather it is God who is our slave or servant or worker. God has created us for serving his purpose according to his plan and not that God should serve our purposes according to our plans which we have created in our own minds independent of God. The fact is, we humans have already been given by God each and everything we will ever need for doing our job assigned to us by God. This being the case, how right could people be in saying things to God about God or for asking him for favours? This will become clearer once I have explained this issue for people to help them understand it. In a way we are turning things upside down. Such like are the reasons as to why the Quranic teaching is anti religion and anti secularism. Regardless the other part of praying to God involves asking God for each and everything we want from him ie we have very long lists of our demands to put before God. All this is useless because God has already given humanity what it needs for fulfilling purpose of God for which he has created them. It therefore makes absolutely no sense to ask God for things which we already have from God including his purpose based proper guidance for us regarding purposeful proper use of those God given things for our benefits as a purpose based proper human community in a place in his kingdom. So after God has given things to us if we still do not have them then it is not because of God but because we have not learned the needed sense as to how to manage and handle God given things purposefully properly as a purpose based proper human community in the kingdom of God so that none of us suffers and all of us have a great life in this world with help and full support of each other by complementing each other purposefully properly for ensuring well being of each other. It is human beings who make one another suffer terribly by hands of each other due to their ignorance about God assigned purpose of life and the way it should be fulfilled by them. This explains why human beings cannot criticise God about things for which he is not responsible because he has made humanity itself responsible for thinking, planning and doing things for one another for his sake. We also need to think about what we are taking God as by asking God for doing things for us because we are treating God as if he is our servant or slave instead of we humans being servants and workers of God. We have turned each and everything God has told us upside down by misinterpreting and misrepresenting his message to each other. It is because we do not look at things objectively and purposefully properly in their own purpose based proper context. Our fault is we are not trying to understanding the real world realities and the revelation of God in their own purpose based proper contexts respectively in light of each other.

Our idea of education, training and skills is very wrong because in a way we think education, training and skills are all about knowing about things as to what they are or how they work and then copy them and do the same etc etc. If I learn how to make an aeroplane it does not teach me what is actual purpose based proper use of an aeroplane in a social context. Same is true if I make a medicine. This is why despite having loads of medicines we let many people suffer terribly and then die because of our withholding medicines from each other deliberately, so where does that lead us? We withhold food and water from each other let alone luxuries of life. All because we think it is our individual copyright or our intellectual property etc etc. Whereas the fact is we have no universal moral values to live by. How can we human beings be such stupid people when God has gifted us with all we have for the purpose based proper use of all of us? Did God claim any copyrights or intellectual property rights for giving us things we have? We did not create anything out of nothing at all rather all we have invented was created from what was already there when we were born. We ourselves were created by God and things we have were also created by God. All we have been doing is dismantling God made things and reassembling them the way they could benefit us. But when it comes to our benefits for doing that we have decided to withhold things from each other which only and only leads us to fights and wars with each other over those things which were not really our own to begin with rather they were given to us by God for serving his purpose which was to ensure well being of all human beings. This is why we needed a way of life, a rule of law and a governing system which helped us organise and regulate ourselves in a way that we ended up ensuring well being of each other with help and full support of each other by complementing each other purposefully properly. This is where the Quran provides us people of today with an indisputable solid foundation if we prepare ourselves for its purpose based proper understanding and following. We only dispute about the message of God because we have not prepared ourselves purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon purpose based proper guidance of our creator and sustainer purposefully properly. We choose such people as religious and secular leaders as use us abusively against each other due to our own ignorance and foolishness so they take undue advantage of us masses who follow them blindly. We use our available time in wrong things which leads us into more and more stupidity which in turn makes us do more and more stupid things to each other and that is how human world keeps getting worse and worse instead of getting better and better. This is why what we need to learn about is purpose based proper way of life, purpose based proper rule of law and purpose based proper governing system from the Quran which help us live in this world the right way or purposefully properly ie the way God intended for us and for which he guided us through his messages.

This is why no matter how much educated, trained and skilled we become or no matter how many degrees and certificates we acquire from no matter how many famous institutions in the human world so long as we remain confused about living purposefully properly in this world none of our inventions can help us live sensibly no matter how long we keep going along this path we have invented and imposed upon each other. For living purposefully properly in this world only and only God can help us do that through his provided purpose based proper guidance for mankind but only if we let God do so by learning his message purposefully properly and acting upon it faithfully. So long as we will keep God therefore his provided universal moral values out of our equation of life we will keep on making our lives hell by securing our own individual petty personal gains from each other at each other’s expense and that is the context in which God talks in the Quran regarding hell and paradise ie you live in this world the way God says then your life will become and remain blissful, dignified and secure as a purpose based proper human community in his kingdom or you live your life your own way as you like then wait till you end up making your lives hell by quarrelling with one another over each and everything. So what God is telling us is very clear that you live for ensuring well being of one another as a purpose based proper human community then soon you will have a great life in this world by your own hard works but if you will work against well being of each other then gradually your world will become and remain a hellhole for yourselves. It is not God who punishes people but people themselves think, plan and do all sorts of terrible things to each other for securing their own individual petty personal gains from each other at each other's expense and then complain and blame God for all that they themselves do to each other. This is why understanding the very first surah of the Quran purposefully properly is very important and so are the very last surahs. God is praiseworthy because he has given people a way of life, a rule of law and a governing system which could help them live a great life in this world as well as to have a great life in hereafter as a reward for it. This is why mankind must seek refuge in God ie in the way of life that is revealed by God for them and not follow way of life the shayateen=harmful and destructive leading and dominant people want us to follow in our human populations. I will talk about shayateen, jinns and malaaikah etc at some other time as well, as to what these words mean in the purpose based proper context of the Quran. The Quran was not revealed so that foolish people make fun of it and burn it but so that mankind learn sense from it and do what is told in it and have a great life experience in this world and so that then they could be rewarded also for their such hard works in hereafter as well.

This is why before people read the Quran they need to prepare themselves purposefully properly for its purpose based proper understanding and acting upon that understanding. One should be able to see from this explanation how silly the Arabs look when they fail to understand and act upon the Quran purposefully properly. It is because the Quran has its own language that is totally different from what Arabs know. It is a higher level of use of human language by God which is purpose based and this is why none can bring a book like the Quran. Till people enable themselves to think at a higher level the Quran requires, they cannot understand and act upon the Quran purposefully properly even if they are Arabs. The Quran teaches people that they are all workers as far as God is concerned and if they will work for fulfilling the purpose for which God has created them then their lives will become great but not otherwise no matter how hard they work and no matter how long they go down that path. As I have explained already, living by religion can lead humanity nowhere. Why not? Because religion has nothing at all to do with real world realities instead it is all about empty words and irrelevant beliefs and ritual practices. People can sit and pray to God all they like but nothing can change because God has created this world on basis of cause and effect chain. This is why if one wants a child one has to go through a process whereby one can get a child. Otherwise no matter how much one cries to God one will not get a child. It is because God has set up this kingdom of his creation to work in a particular way which never changes as he himself tells mankind in the Quran. This world and things in it are not set up by God to work the way people assume they work ie miraculously and magically. This is why no hungry person can get food unless one goes through the related processes for getting the food. God has put measures in place and he has set up systems and structure as well as he has dictated procedures and practices so none can get anything unless one understands the way his laws of nature operate or control or govern the operation of the natural world and things in it.

If no version of religion can give human beings worthy state of existence, can any version of secularism and to what degree? Yes, secularism can give some people relatively better life to some degree but not to the degree the way of life, rule of law and governing system called Islam can. Secularism can only give some people some things on basis of personal gains at each other's expense at the most and not on any other basis. It is because through idea of individualism people only and only work for themselves and not for each other or for ensuring well being of each other. In such a society only and only those people succeed who have what it takes to succeed in that kind of setting in its own context and not those who are relatively less advantaged. This is why the more advantaged people take undue advantages of those who are less advantaged which creates a serious divide between those who have and those who have not so there comes about a gap and a divide between rich and poor or powerful and weak. This being the case as numbers of those who are less advantaged increases there comes about a terrible bloody revolution. This is why to avoid this situation the number of poor and the level of poverty is controlled almost fully by those who have power and wealth through various tricks and mechanisms. This is what forces so called successful individuals to contribute to their societies to remain in positions of power and have wealth at their disposal. Therefore even if they contribute anything to their societies it is not because they are good people but only because if they will not do that then people who have hard life will get upset and revolt or rise up against them and their set up system and topple it or dislodge it and bring it down. So rich and powerful people have organised and regulated their human populations in a way to keep things under their control as much as they can but the natural world is under control of setup purpose based proper systems and laws of God which keep upsetting and unsettling their artificially created balance and equilibrium always and forces change upon people be they powerful and rich or powerless and poor. This is why so far no human being has managed to control humanity fully and none ever will, so tells humanity the Quran. It is because if a particular people will pay attention to any particular people in order to keep them under their control then another people will prepare and rise up against them from elsewhere. So it is the best thing to do for mankind to prepare themselves purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon purpose based proper guidance of their creator and sustainer for them purposefully properly instead of ignoring, avoiding and neglecting it and continuously facing terrible consequences by hands of each other for doing so.

In other words God has set up this world to work in such a way that mankind can never take full control of it to take it in the totally wrong direction rather whatever people think, plan and do it will always lead the human world in the right direction be it bit by bit or in very, very small and unnoticeable steps or very, very slowly. If mankind could succeed in taking the human world in the wrong direction then purpose and plan of God could fail this is why that cannot happen at all. However God does wants people to learn purpose based proper sense and move in the right direction and quickly all by themselves to save themselves from all kinds of terrible painful sufferings by hands of each other. It is like a case of two babies who are put in two different environments. One is never sent to school or any teacher to learn things and the other who is sent to school or a learned teacher to learn things. One who is sent to school will learn things very fast due to being taught things compared to the one who has never been to school and never been taught. Likewise people who will learn from each other and who will teach each other about the real word realities as well as the Quran purposefully properly in light of each other they will succeed as well as fast and they will save themselves from a lot of terrible painful suffering by hands of each other but those who will not do so they will move very, very slowly on this journey of learning and discovery and they will keep on suffering terribly by hands of each other. The while humanity by passes, ignores, avoids and neglects the Quran their this situation of terrible painful suffering by hands of each other will continuously prevail and continue for them till they turn towards the Quran for their purpose based proper guidance by learning the required or needed or necessary sense of making purpose based proper sense of things. This is why the Quran is a purpose based proper teacher for mankind but this teacher has its own way of interacting with people. The Quran is a teacher because it points out things for people to learn about them or that it acts as a stimulus for them to inspire or urge or encourage or motivate or trigger or activate them. If we look at the process of teaching and learning as to how we are taught and learn, we will see that it is done the very same way. What a teacher does is, points out things for us to consider and then we ourselves try and figure them out in our minds in order to try and understand them. The very same applies in case of the Quran ie it too brings different things to our attention for figuring them out the best we can. So thinking the Quran is a useless book is not the right way of looking at the Quran because it is a very useful book for humanity once it is understood purposefully properly in its own purpose based proper context by mankind. The basic point the Quran makes is, don't live for yourself or for each other but instead live for sake of fulfilling the purpose for which God has created you. This explanation clearly shows limitations of religion and secularism in comparison to way of life, rule of law and governing system which are advised by God for humanity in the Quran so that mankind live purposefully properly in this world. This is why no human can bring about a way of life like the one the Quran suggests let alone any better way of life than the Quran. This is why no human being can write a book like the Quran even today let alone a better book than the Quran.

This explanation clearly shows all versions of religion and secularism are invented, imposed and used by rulers, money lenders and priest to control masses in their human populations with help and support of each other. They are used as a process and a mechanism to pass on the buck between themselves to fool the masses in their human populations because where rulers fail to provide masses with what they need by design they make excuses to them on basis of their religious beliefs and practices by saying things are in the hands of God so let us pray to God to put things right for us etc etc. Also they pass on blame to each other about their created problems which people in their human populations face and that way they confuse masses about whom they should actually blame for what they are going through. They can make fool of masses so easily because masses do not and cannot see and become aware of things the way they should due to their remaining ignorant and foolish or due to their leading and dominant people keeping them ignorant and foolish due to lack of purpose based proper education, training and skills so due to being foolish they keep on trusting their so called dominant people and leaders blindly so they keep turning to their secular and religious leaders and economic experts etc etc for solutions of their problems instead of turning to the book of their creator and sustainer which shows them how to get out of this ruler, money lender and mullah invented confusion called religion and secularism by organising and regulating themselves purposefully properly for solving the problems they are facing. This leaves them totally vulnerable and open to abusive use, blackmailing, exploitation and manipulation by both religious and secular leaders and their helpers and supporters due to confusion or traps they have created for masses to entrap them. This is how the Quran clearly exposes all kinds of ways of life, rules of laws and governing systems people have come up with or they have imposed upon each other or they have adopted so far, be it imperialism or dictatorship or authoritarianism or capitalism or communism or socialism etc etc. None of these can give people what the Quranic way of life, rule of law and governing system can give them. It is because all of these ideas are based upon petty personal gains for a few at the expense of all others in their human populations. This is why one should be able to see why one has to study the Quran purposefully properly in depth to get the hang of it or hold of its purpose based proper teachings. This clearly shows why Islam is not and cannot be a religion. The so called or so labelled religion of Islam has been invented by foolish mullahs or priestly classes on behalf of foolish ruling classes and money lending classes to confuse people in the very name of one true God so that the real way of life, real rule of law and real governing system called or labelled Islam by the Quran could be covered up or hidden from the eyes of the ignorant and uneducated, unskilled or illiterate masses so that that way masses could be used abusively by rulers, money lenders and mullahs without any reaction or bloody revolution by the abused masses. This explanation should leave no doubt in minds of people as to what actual deen of islam or way of life, rule of law and governing system called Islam really is. It has nothing at all to do with Islam of rulers, money lenders, mullaans, their touts and supporters.

This explanation also explains very clearly the fact that deen of Islam is only and only about ensuring well being of humanity from the very beginning to the very end provided people understand and adopt it purposefully properly and faithfully by acting upon it purposefully properly. This is why deen of Islam is actually from God for ensuring well being of humanity through their own help and full support of each other by their own complementing each other purposefully properly therefore it is an ideology which is all about human society, its politics, its culture and its economy and it has nothing at all to do with prayers to God or any other baseless make beliefs and ritualism or useless and time wasting or harmful and destructive practices. It has its own governing systems, structures, procedures and practices. Deen of Islam is all about people themselves organising and regulating themselves upon its basis or provided foundation for managing and handling God given land and resources or means of production and distribution as a single purpose based proper human family or community for serving God and that is what the Quran calls IBAADAH or serving one true God and this has nothing at all to do with pooja or worship of God through rituals by people and their singing songs to God and doing nothing except rubbing their noses on the ground and waving their behinds in the air and feeling good that they have done their part. Muslim cannot take over a people by sword unless forced to do so by non-Muslims because deen of Islam is all about supporting each other for ensuring well being of each other and who in the right mind can oppose this idea that one needs to take up arms? It is always abusers, exploiters and manipulators of humanity who benefit from abusing others who oppose deen of Islam and that is why they impose fights and wars upon true Muslims and that is the true position of actual deen of Islam and true Muslims if there are any. Muslims cannot need or want anything for themselves or others but only and only seek pleasure of their creator and sustainer by doing works which he told them to do to ensure well being of whole of humanity with full help and support of each other through their complementing each other purposefully properly. A Muslim society has to be a self regulated complimentary human society and not a society based upon rivalry or negative competition. If one learns sense of making purpose based proper sense of things and then reads the Quran, one will soon find out the Quran is not a book from any human being but a book that is from outside of this human world. However if people will not learn sense to make purpose based proper sense of the message of the Quran then they will never know what the real message of God in the Quran is for them.

However the more and more human beings will ignore or avoid or neglect or abandon or desert the Quran and therefore the Quran based purpose based proper Islam as a purpose based proper way of life, as a purpose based proper rule of law and as a purpose based proper governing system the more and more painful and agonising suffering will become norm for humanity by hands of each other over longer and longer period of time as a consequence. Such excuse is not valid for people that since people who claim to be Muslims do not understand and use the Quran purposefully properly so it has nothing to do with non-Muslims. It is because God if there is one is God of each and everything and it is he who has sent his message for all mankind so those who will prepare themselves purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accept and acting upon it purposefully properly they will have a great life in here as well as in hereafter whereas those who will not do so they will end up and remain in a terribly painful existence always by hands of each other no matter what. These are not threats by God but advance or forewarnings from God for sensible people to not to blindly follow each other into the hell hole which is dug by people themselves for themselves by not following advice of God at all. Deen of Islam is a true and real or actual democratic system because it is a party-less system wherein all individuals are equal members of the ummah or purpose based proper human family. What does that mean? It means power rests with rule of law of God as purposefully properly understood by the individuals in light of real world realities who can then come together as a purpose based proper human community and so they can appoint fully capable people into all the needed work places to serve them for God sake as all agree or in order to fulfil the purpose based proper Quranic program by accomplishing its goals according to its provided guidelines for fulfilling needs and wants of all members of purpose based proper human community. This system works like a referendum in which all discuss things and vote for each and every individual issue and the issue is decided on the basis of purpose based proper understanding of the Quran and the real world realities as well as needs and wants of people as individuals by a simple majority or unanimity. In a way it is bottom up system as compared to people taking over each other by force or by tricks or deceptive mechanisms whereby they create a pyramid of power structure to abuse weaker people from among themselves. So when it comes to bringing about a purpose based proper human community in the kingdom of God, if people cannot even understand the real world realities and the Quran purposefully properly in light of each other in the first place then could they or can they bring about a purpose based proper human community or create a book like the Quran all by themselves? Not at all. The Quran by making such points shows humanity, it is a book from outside this human world ie it is not written by human beings. It is because human beings do not think the way the Quran does otherwise they will not need it. Moreover if human beings could produce a book like the Quran then our human world in no way could be the way it is right before our very eyes ie in a terrible state of existence. It will have been a paradise instead.

If God has created this kingdom of his creation and people in it in actual fact then he needed to tell people why he has created it as well as why created them and what they needed to do to fulfil his purpose of creating them and he has done that. God is not supposed to react to what people assume, imagine and demand or his own plan will end up derailed. This being the case, why will God tell people for praying to him when he does not and he cannot answer their prayers as he ought to according to beliefs and practices of people as they imagine and assume them to be the case? Moreover why will God set times for prayers of people? It is because even if praying was ok, people will only praise God when they got good things from God and they will only seek help of God when they are in real troubles and truly need help of God. Not only that but if God asks people to do that then God ought to fulfil their demands or whatever they ask for otherwise why ask people for prayer to waste their time and energies in the first place? This is why it makes absolutely no sense to have five daily prayers at fixed times and with fixed wording for prayers because prayer should be depending on situations or circumstances of people themselves as individuals and as groups. Yet another point in this regard is, God has his own purpose and plan for creating us so if he listens to us or fulfils our demands according to our wishes then how can God carry out his own plan for fulfilling his own purpose? Moreover we each have our own conflicting demands because we are always in conflict with each other, so how can God please each and every one of us? Therefore it makes sense for God to give us all his standard and program to live by rather than he himself following our wishy-washy and willy-nilly wishes and desires so that we all could mould or bend or model ourselves according to him rather than trying to mould God to fit our demands according to our self created conflicting standards, ambitions and desires. When it comes to God, the Quran and deen of Islam; things only seem mysterious for us because we are ignorant about them in various ways. I have already explained why miraculous and magical event cannot take place in this world the way people at large think due to their lack of purpose based proper knowledge about things. This is why our laughing at the Quran by taking it as a joke exposes our own ignorance and foolishness or stupidity at most and by burning the Quran we are throwing our own future into the hell of our own making by our own hands.

I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
- Mughal
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
Reply #212 - December 15, 2024, 12:13 AM

As I have explained already God cannot force out of people his praise nor their prayers. If he does that then he will be deemed having little or no self respect at all. It is because true admiration and true request arise from the bottom of a human's heart who is either overwhelmed by awesome and wonderful works of someone or by need and want of someone who needs something desperately. When one comes across such emotional outbursts one has no control over one's emotions so one expresses oneself genuinely and sincerely.

When someone puts a gun to someone's head and asks one for admiration and appreciation or when one forces one to beg for things then one fears for one's life rather than thinking about what to say and how to say it purposefully properly. Moreover one's state of emotion is not permanent. This is why five daily prayers in mullahs' islam are falsely attributed to God because God cannot do such nonsense things.

Moreover if God wants people to beg for things from him then why does he not give people things they ask for? This means God is asking people to do things which are impossible for him to carry out because in a way God is asking people to order him around as they like in order to fulfil their ambitions and desires. Or in other words God is forced to follow guidance of people instead of people following his Guidance.

Also people ask God for things which are against each other so how can he please everyone by granting them their conflicting requests against each other? So one can see attributing such nonsensical things to God cannot be right as they make no sense. This is how mullah islam is disproved very easily and all their misinterpretations and wrong explanations of the quranic text therefore can clearly become very obvious.

This is why if the quranic text can be interpreted and explained purposefully properly and yet it is misinterpreted and misrepresented by mullahs then mullah are either ignorant fools or they are doing this on purpose for some hidden agendas due to their ignorance based arrogance because sensible people cannot do so.

Likewise if educated, trained and skilled people in various disciplines instead of trying to discover actual message of God for them from the quran they just keep arguing against nonsense of mullahs then they too are either senseless people or they too have a hidden agenda due to their ignorance based arrogance.

God has not given his message to mankind for fulfilling desires and ambitions of people rather he has given them his message to explain for them why he has created this creation and human beings and what he want of them and how they can fulfil that purpose or his assigned mission for them.

This is why the quran is provable word of God because the proof is nothing more than the best possible purpose based proper explanation of something. The quran therefore purposefully properly serves its God intended purpose.

Existence of God

If there was nothing at all to begin with then there ought to be nothing at all for ever. Therefore the creation we see all around us could not exist, because nothing cannot produce anything at all.

If there was something it had to be something intelligent with all needed necessary attributes for its existence as well as its actions. Since the creation exists therefore it is an undeniable proof that its creator and sustainer exists.

Since the creator and sustainer of this creation necessarily exists therefore it is also necessary that his explanation exists for those who have been bestowed with intelligence to serve his particular purpose of creation and that is because he has created things because he had a purpose in his mind for doing so.

So all mankind can do is try their best to make purpose based proper sense of his alleged revelation to make sure it is his revelation and that it serves the purpose for which it is revealed.

All concepts about God which are expressed by secular and religious people, philosophers and scientists are false and wrong. God is what he is supposed to be as is clear from his created things as well as his revelation. Both need to be looked at in light of each other.

So those who are anti God have they done their homework? If they have then they need to show it otherwise they are just crazy.

One has to remember that proof is an explanation and not an unintelligent object or fact. This is why the one who explains something has to be an intelligent being who can do so. This is why the creation is evidence of existence of God because it has been explained by its creator and sustainer.

What is reasoning? Reasoning is all about putting reasons together in such a way that they become a consistent explanation about something that makes sense. It is like putting all parts of a bike together purposefully properly so that one ends up with perfectly working bike.

This short explanation is just a reminder for what has been explained already in detail before I start my more detailed explanation of the quran text.

I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
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Topic: Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?

Mughal

Reply #210 - November 22, 2024, 06:42 AM

Mughal

Reply #211 - November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Mughal

Reply #212 - December 15, 2024, 12:13 AM

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