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Theme Changer

 Topic: Yet another 'Apostate'

 (Read 20799 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Yet another 'Apostate'
     OP - October 16, 2008, 06:06 PM
    First of all - FINALLY, somewhere on the world wide web that isn't filled with angry replies from Muslims about how you shouldn't doubt the word of the Quran!

    I am an almost-twenty-one year old from Pakistan, lived in England virtually my whole life, and now studying in Australia (where I came partly to escape from my family believe it or not).

    I am dating a white, Atheist Australian who I am head over heels about, but my parents do not know.

    My brother, who is older, spends his time out with friends, getting drunk and smoking. My parents pardon him and do not bother questioning him about where he has been. Me being the young girl of the family, I get all their attention, lucky me.

    I have an uncle who converted to Christianity more than thirty years ago, and his parents disowned him. He has not spoken to my family in over 30 years and now I am finally getting him back in touch with my mother, his sister. We had a huge discussion about what would happen if I happened to decide to become Atheist. She said that she would accept it. However a few days later when it became evident to her that I was researching, we had a huge argument. She won't accept it.

    I've decided that I want to live my life my way, and I'm not a bad person, I have morals and I'm generally a good human being. I'm fed up of being made to feel guilty just because I choose not to follow religion!

    That's me in a nutshell!
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #1 - October 16, 2008, 06:10 PM
    Welcome's. Have fun here or something
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #2 - October 16, 2008, 06:15 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 16, 2008, 06:06 PM


    I've decided that I want to live my life my way, and I'm not a bad person, I have morals and I'm generally a good human being. I'm fed up of being made to feel guilty just because I choose not to follow religion!




    Bingo!

    I wish you the best of luck - and welcome! Smiley
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #3 - October 16, 2008, 08:14 PM
    Hiya Heartbomb. Welcome to our humble abode. I'm in Oz myself. Got pet kangaroos in the bathroom and full collection of Rolf Harris records and paintings. parrot

    Make yourself at home. Afro
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #4 - October 16, 2008, 08:57 PM
    Hi and welcome aboard.
    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #5 - October 17, 2008, 06:22 AM
    Welcome aboard Heartbomb, I am currently close by but will soon head back to Canada.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #6 - October 17, 2008, 09:03 AM
    Thanks guys  Smiley

    Baal are you moving to Canada permanently then?

    I love Oz so much, the freedom is a bonus.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #7 - October 17, 2008, 10:22 AM
    Hey Heartbomb.  Welcome. Smiley
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #8 - October 17, 2008, 10:41 AM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 16, 2008, 06:06 PM
    First of all - FINALLY, somewhere on the world wide web that isn't filled with angry replies from Muslims about how you shouldn't doubt the word of the Quran!

    I am an almost-twenty-one year old from Pakistan, lived in England virtually my whole life, and now studying in Australia (where I came partly to escape from my family believe it or not).

    I am dating a white, Atheist Australian who I am head over heels about, but my parents do not know.

    My brother, who is older, spends his time out with friends, getting drunk and smoking. My parents pardon him and do not bother questioning him about where he has been. Me being the young girl of the family, I get all their attention, lucky me.

    I have an uncle who converted to Christianity more than thirty years ago, and his parents disowned him. He has not spoken to my family in over 30 years and now I am finally getting him back in touch with my mother, his sister. We had a huge discussion about what would happen if I happened to decide to become Atheist. She said that she would accept it. However a few days later when it became evident to her that I was researching, we had a huge argument. She won't accept it.

    I've decided that I want to live my life my way, and I'm not a bad person, I have morals and I'm generally a good human being. I'm fed up of being made to feel guilty just because I choose not to follow religion!

    That's me in a nutshell!



    No one is bad,

    don't think you are

    Enjoy life and enjoy your plans

    Listen to your heart and not religious nonsense

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #9 - October 17, 2008, 04:28 PM
    Welcome heartbomb  dance

    I think it's good that your mum even had a conversation with you about apostasy and actually tried to allow it, even if she went backward I'm sure it's a positive sign that she would eventually make herself accept it in time.

    Luck you, early twenties and in Australia, I hope you are making the most of it.  grin12
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #10 - October 17, 2008, 04:35 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 17, 2008, 04:28 PM
    Welcome heartbomb  dance

    I think it's good that your mum even had a conversation with you about apostasy and actually tried to allow it, even if she went backward I'm sure it's a positive sign that she would eventually make herself accept it in time.

    Luck you, early twenties and in Australia, I hope you are making the most of it.  grin12


    I think she has some self interest in that as I'm the only one in my family who is doing something with my life.

    Early twenties and in Australia, haha I should be out partying and going to the beach. Alas! Mother dearest is clinging to me, I'm waiting for her to peer over my shoulder and see the huge 'COUNCIL OF EX-MUSLIMS' banner. Actually I hope that happens.

    Thanks for the warm welcome folks  grin12
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #11 - October 17, 2008, 08:17 PM
    ROFL. Some people are wary of the banner because of their situation. We have heaps of other options if you ever need to be sneaky. The default theme has eleven choices (some people don't realise this). Wink
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #12 - October 18, 2008, 01:07 AM
    Welcome. Yes. Have fun. ghost
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #13 - October 18, 2008, 11:35 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 17, 2008, 08:17 PM
    The default theme has eleven choices (some people don't realise this). Wink


    Where can you see what the 11 choices for the default theme are?
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #14 - October 18, 2008, 01:23 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on October 18, 2008, 11:35 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 17, 2008, 08:17 PM
    The default theme has eleven choices (some people don't realise this). Wink


    Where can you see what the 11 choices for the default theme are?


    They are in tabs across the very top of the page, above the banner.  Wink
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #15 - October 19, 2008, 10:03 AM
    Told ya some people don't realise. Cheesy

    Hass, there are eleven buttons across the page just above the banner. They're only faintly outlined but they'll show if you hover your cursor over them. The gap is only thirty pixels high so you can't really miss them.

    Oh yeah, I made them ten of them too. So there. 
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #16 - October 25, 2008, 09:03 AM
    Welcome aboard.  Afro
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #17 - November 07, 2008, 12:02 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 16, 2008, 06:06 PM
    First of all - FINALLY, somewhere on the world wide web that isn't filled with angry replies from Muslims about how you shouldn't doubt the word of the Quran!

    I am an almost-twenty-one year old from Pakistan, lived in England virtually my whole life, and now studying in Australia (where I came partly to escape from my family believe it or not).

    I am dating a white, Atheist Australian who I am head over heels about, but my parents do not know.

    My brother, who is older, spends his time out with friends, getting drunk and smoking. My parents pardon him and do not bother questioning him about where he has been. Me being the young girl of the family, I get all their attention, lucky me.

    I have an uncle who converted to Christianity more than thirty years ago, and his parents disowned him. He has not spoken to my family in over 30 years and now I am finally getting him back in touch with my mother, his sister. We had a huge discussion about what would happen if I happened to decide to become Atheist. She said that she would accept it. However a few days later when it became evident to her that I was researching, we had a huge argument. She won't accept it.

    I've decided that I want to live my life my way, and I'm not a bad person, I have morals and I'm generally a good human being. I'm fed up of being made to feel guilty just because I choose not to follow religion!

    That's me in a nutshell!


    Great post, and welcome to the forum. I am a Punjabi (Pakistani) Cultural Muslim. In other words, an atheist who still follows Islam based on principles, and culture. I drink and smoke, used to date too (before I got married) and I am in my mid-twenties.

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #18 - November 07, 2008, 10:08 PM
    Can anyone direct me to a comprehensive definition of an apostate?
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #19 - November 07, 2008, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 07, 2008, 10:08 PM
    Can anyone direct me to a comprehensive definition of an apostate?


    Google its your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irtidad

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #20 - November 09, 2008, 08:26 PM
    Essentially all that links states is:
    (1)A public declaration or conduct that denies Islam, its beliefs, symbols or its principal actors such as statements as "I believe in gods other than Allah", or "God has a material form."
    (2) Contradicting the positions that are upheld by a consensus (ijma) of Muslim scholars (ulema), such as saying that prayers or fasting are not obligatory, or that the prohibition of adultery does not have to be followed. Not following these doctrines does not make one an apostate, but saying they need not be followed does.

    (1) does not expand on "denies its beliefs." What beliefs. Does rejecting a few verses of the Qur'an signify "denial of Belief?"

    In (2) it says that you do not have to live a pious manner so long as you do not say it, is all right?

    Confusing.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #21 - November 12, 2008, 05:10 AM
    heartbomb, welcome to the forum... I am not sure if I should welcome someone who has been here before me.. but I guess it wont hurt.

  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #22 - November 12, 2008, 05:58 AM
    Quote from: elle on November 09, 2008, 08:26 PM
    Essentially all that links states is:
    (1)A public declaration or conduct that denies Islam, its beliefs, symbols or its principal actors such as statements as "I believe in gods other than Allah", or "God has a material form."
    (2) Contradicting the positions that are upheld by a consensus (ijma) of Muslim scholars (ulema), such as saying that prayers or fasting are not obligatory, or that the prohibition of adultery does not have to be followed. Not following these doctrines does not make one an apostate, but saying they need not be followed does.

    (1) does not expand on "denies its beliefs." What beliefs. Does rejecting a few verses of the Qur'an signify "denial of Belief?"

    In (2) it says that you do not have to live a pious manner so long as you do not say it, is all right?

    Confusing.


    An apostate is someon who rejects the religion.


    Quote
    Apostasy (IPA: /??p?st?si/) is the formal religious disaffiliation or abandonment or renunciation of one's religion

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #23 - November 12, 2008, 09:50 AM
    Heartbomb, that is, to me anyway, too vague. Let me be specific.

    Does the following apply, i.e. imam:
    Iman or Faith

    "There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last  Prophet, Muhammad.

    I mention this because it is more specific than the 5 pillars of Islam.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #24 - November 12, 2008, 09:54 AM
    Quote from: elle on November 12, 2008, 09:50 AM
    Heartbomb, that is, to me anyway, too vague. Let me be specific.

    Does the following apply, i.e. imam:
    Iman or Faith

    "There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last  Prophet, Muhammad.

    I mention this because it is more specific than the 5 pillars of Islam.


    What are you on about?  Huh?

    The Shahadah is one of the five pillars of Islam.

    What has that got to do with the term 'Apostate'? Huh?
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #25 - November 12, 2008, 10:13 AM
    heartbomb, what I said is significant because I am leading you on.

    "the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last  Prophet, Muhammad. "

    To the above quote, I was going to ask, "How is the done?"

    To me, it is to obey the commands of Allah with the guidance of the Qur'an. (Because the 5 pillars make no mention of the Qur'an and that is why I have to introduce the Qur'an via the imam.)

    I am leading you on with my selective questions. finmad

  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #26 - November 12, 2008, 10:14 AM
    Quote from: elle on November 12, 2008, 10:13 AM
    heartbomb, what I said is significant because I am leading you on.

    "the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last  Prophet, Muhammad. "

    To the above quote, I was going to ask, "How is the done?"

    To me, it is to obey the commands of Allah with the guidance of the Qur'an. (Because the 5 pillars make no mention of the Qur'an and that is why I have to introduce the Qur'an via the imam.)

    I am leading you on with my selective questions. finmad




    And I'm counter-questioning your selective questions. What does that have to do with apostacy?
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #27 - November 12, 2008, 10:19 AM
    Quote from: elle on November 12, 2008, 10:13 AM
    To the above quote, I was going to ask, "How is the done?"

    ...Because the 5 pillars make no mention of the Qur'an ..


    It is mentioned in the first pillar, the Shahada. In declaring that Muhammad is the messenger, it is a statement that you (as a muslim) should follow the messenger. And his message was? The Qur'an.

    Roll Eyes

    It feels very odd that I should have to explain this as an ex-muslim.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #28 - November 12, 2008, 10:20 AM
    OK, heartbomb. The Qur'an is the world of Allah. If anyone abrogates or denies any one of Allah's commands, as in the Qur'an, is he blaspheming Allah? And is such a person an apostate?  Wink

    I've got to go shopping in a few minutes so I'll be back later! Hope you can give me a definitive answer and not vague run-around. I think that is straight enough a question for you?
  • Re: Yet another 'Apostate'
     Reply #29 - November 12, 2008, 10:24 AM
    Quote from: elle on November 12, 2008, 10:20 AM
    The Qur'an is the word of Allah. If anyone abrogates or denies any one of Allah's commands, as in the Qur'an, is he blaspheming Allah? And is such a person an apostate?


    That depends on what it is, and the severity, and all that shit. It's kufr in general. And it will probably make one a kaafir in the orthodox lens, but he may still define himself as muslim. An apostate is one who no longer identifies as being a muslim.

     wacko
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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