Hello

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- united
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Hello
OP - October 17, 2008, 08:40 AM

Hi

Im from a pressure group called the United British Alliance... great site and forum you have here,.. would be good to make some links here if possible..

keep up the great work.
- osmanthus
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Re: Hello
Reply #1 - October 17, 2008, 08:58 AM

Hmmm, we'll see about the links later I think. Welcome to our forum anyway.

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- BerberElla
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Re: Hello
Reply #2 - October 17, 2008, 04:45 PM

Welcome to the forum, pull up a chair, grab a drink and tell us a bit more about yourself. Like what journey brought you to this forum.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- hupla
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Re: Hello
Reply #3 - October 17, 2008, 04:57 PM

Aah - I'm not sure if anyone has told you, but the name of your group has some slightly right wing connotations.

It's a little unfortunate...
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #4 - October 18, 2008, 11:28 AM

Quote from: united on October 17, 2008, 08:40 AM
Hi

Im from a pressure group called the United British Alliance... great site and forum you have here,.. would be good to make some links here if possible..

keep up the great work.

Hmmmm.... just a quick glance at your site leaves me a little dubious...

http://www.freewebs.com/the-uba/

Personally I'm very suspicious of all Jingoist, Salute the flag, "Preserve Our Way of Life" - types.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello
Reply #5 - October 18, 2008, 02:47 PM

'its about time we started being proud of our great country again,lets all start by attending the u.b.a marches in 08 and giving britain its voice back..queen and country..'

Right to be dubious Hass. A great find for the certain members here though, off you toddle you know who.

Ha Ha.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #6 - October 18, 2008, 06:21 PM

You see this is why I am constantly banging on about the bigots and haters - we have a basic image problem here.

The first thing that popped into this guys mind was "Ah, Ex-Muslims, they'll be good partners in our narrow-minded, bigoted, paranoid, and reactionary crusade!"

Just like most doubting Muslims are put off our forum because they immediately think we hate them and are out to destroy them.

During the interview with the Dubai TV people I had the other day, the chap said (off camera) "You know I thought you would hate Islam and be full of anger and attacks etc... - but you know, most of the doubts you express, I have also!"

Unless we make an effort to reverse this image problem - we will continue to drive away the sort of people we want and attract the sort of people we don't want.
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Re: Hello
Reply #7 - October 18, 2008, 06:37 PM

Don't you think you could have given him a chance before you all leaped on him in attack mode?

No point in trying open up anyones eyes and make them see a middle path eh? just leap on them and tell them they are not welcome before they have even had a chance to say much, that's the better way right?

Maybe this guy is like the far right american, but then again maybe he is just a non racist looking for a platform different than one he has been working on before, people learn or is that a little bit too much to expect us to manage?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Hello
Reply #8 - October 18, 2008, 06:51 PM

'YES to a new tide of patriotism in Britain AGAINST our enemies'

There are too many implications for a sentence like this, and they seem to love these bold statements, which reminds me of certain other groups who sneak in on the 'PC gone mad' ticket.

Maybe he just didn't look closely at it? But I think Hass made a good point, however politically aligned he might be.

Ha Ha.
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Re: Hello
Reply #9 - October 18, 2008, 07:20 PM

You are probably right, but can you imagine the reaction if we allowed members to come onto a new thread created by a muslim member and tell them to "go away, we don't want the likes of you here"?

I would like to think we are in the business of changing minds over here, whether far right or far muslim.

I mean there is nothing wrong with pruning out the rubbish, but I would reserve judgement until the rubbish starts to smell.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #10 - October 18, 2008, 07:22 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on October 18, 2008, 06:37 PM
Don't you think you could have given him a chance before you all leaped on him in attack mode?

No point in trying open up anyones eyes and make them see a middle path eh? just leap on them and tell them they are not welcome before they have even had a chance to say much, that's the better way right?

Maybe this guy is like the far right american, but then again maybe he is just a non racist looking for a platform different than one he has been working on before, people learn or is that a little bit too much to expect us to manage?

I'm afraid I've now come across far too many people on the internet who rush to 'support ex-muslims' and pretend to be against racism and for peace, yet turned out to be BNP/neocon types that I think we need to be hypersensitive to this issue. Because - as I say - ex-Muslims have an image problem and are being lumped with such bigots by most people.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #11 - October 18, 2008, 07:29 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on October 18, 2008, 07:20 PM
You are probably right, but can you imagine the reaction if we allowed members to come onto a new thread created by a muslim member and tell them to "go away, we don't want the likes of you here"?

I would like to think we are in the business of changing minds over here, whether far right or far muslim.

I mean there is nothing wrong with pruning out the rubbish, but I would reserve judgement until the rubbish starts to smell.

Actually as ex-Muslims I think we are in a much better position to reach Muslims. (Not that I'm saying that's why we - or I - am here.)

I think that having far-right types here sends totally the wrong message to everyone and only confirms the misconceptions about us.
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Re: Hello
Reply #12 - October 18, 2008, 07:30 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 18, 2008, 07:22 PM
Because - as I say - ex-Muslims have an image problem and are being lumped with such bigots by most people.

I think you'll find that no matter how much you try to remove the islamaphobe bigotry label from the ex muslim cause, you will still get called a bigot. Why? quite simple really, islam does not like to be criticised, they have PCism on thier side, and anything you say, no matter how politely phrased will still eventually earn you that label.

Do YOU think that the actual organisation of the council of ex muslims (not this forum) is Islamaphobic? has maryam ever come across as badly spoken or a bigot in your eyes?

Because to others the organisation is seen as islamaphobic and bigotted.

As I said, I believe that this forum serves not only to show ex muslims the way, but also to show everyone else that there is a middle way to approach it, and for all you know seeing that could be a change of the way they view things to some people.

And IF the member you are hounding away does turn out to be an actual fully blown inbred bigot then they will be dealt with, just give a new member a chance to show his her true colours before you come thundering down with your righteous rage and fury....k?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Hello
Reply #13 - October 18, 2008, 07:31 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 18, 2008, 07:29 PM
Quote from: BerberElla on October 18, 2008, 07:20 PM
You are probably right, but can you imagine the reaction if we allowed members to come onto a new thread created by a muslim member and tell them to "go away, we don't want the likes of you here"?

I would like to think we are in the business of changing minds over here, whether far right or far muslim.

I mean there is nothing wrong with pruning out the rubbish, but I would reserve judgement until the rubbish starts to smell.

Actually as ex-Muslims I think we are in a much better position to reach Muslims. (Not that I'm saying that's why we - or I - am here.)

Well I'm happy to help all and sundry Hass, if more than helping ex muslims comes out of this then all the better.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #14 - October 18, 2008, 07:36 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on October 18, 2008, 07:30 PM
Quote from: Hassan on October 18, 2008, 07:22 PM
Because - as I say - ex-Muslims have an image problem and are being lumped with such bigots by most people.

I think you'll find that no matter how much you try to remove the islamaphobe bigotry label from the ex muslim cause, you will still get called a bigot. Why? quite simple really, islam does not like to be criticised, they have PCism on thier side, and anything you say, no matter how politely phrased will still eventually earn you that label.

Do YOU think that the actual organisation of the council of ex muslims (not this forum) is Islamaphobic? has maryam ever come across as badly spoken or a bigot in your eyes?

Because to others the organisation is seen as islamaphobic and bigotted.

As I said, I believe that this forum serves not only to show ex muslims the way, but also to show everyone else that there is a middle way to approach it, and for all you know seeing that could be a change of the way they view things to some people.

And IF the member you are hounding away does turn out to be an actual fully blown inbred bigot then they will be dealt with, just give a new member a chance to show his her true colours before you come thundering down with your righteous rage and fury....k?

OK, I agree with what you are saying - except that I do think we can change the image problem we have.

I think Maryam is doing a terrific job - but it would be good if she and we all made an even more concerted effort to change that image.
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Re: Hello
Reply #15 - October 18, 2008, 07:50 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 18, 2008, 07:36 PM

OK, I agree with what you are saying - except that I do think we can change the image problem we have.

I think Maryam is doing a terrific job - but it would be good if she and we all made an even more concerted effort to change that image.

How so? I mean I already think the forum does a good job in keeping the bigots and haters away mostly without also being a complete nazi run forum in the process, what else do you think could be done to keep the ex muslim image clean of any hate labels?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Hello
Reply #16 - October 18, 2008, 08:21 PM

So what would be your image improving solution, hassan?

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
- aife
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Re: Hello
Reply #17 - October 19, 2008, 02:09 AM

I'm glad to see that some people here are prepared to be open to people from outside their own clique - I attended the recent conference and whilst I enjoyed it and have great respect for most of the individuals involved I couldn't help feeling it was all a bit preaching to the choir .
That said I think the UBA are a bit dodgy . It's not the imagery or calls to patriotism that offend me ( why are white british people the only group on earth not allowed to enjoy their identity ? ) , it's what I've read on their forums in the past . I first heard of them a few years ago when they protested outside Finsbury Park mosque and was attracted by their public statements at the time - they emphasised their opposition to extreme islamism and stated they were open to all , regardless of race etc . I went to their website and initially it did appear to be a very broad church , but checking back over the next few years it seemed to drift further rightwards and I gave up on it . This was a couple of years ago so it is possible that a more liberal faction has re-emerged , but I'm sceptical .
Not withstanding this , I still think it would be nice to see different views aired and answered and there is even a case for a limited alliance with people you disagree with - if my house is on fire I'm not going to send the fireman away because he's got a Respect badge ....
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello
Reply #18 - October 19, 2008, 08:26 AM

Quote from: aife on October 19, 2008, 02:09 AM
- if my house is on fire I'm not going to send the fireman away because he's got a Respect badge ....

No but you might if you recognise him as the guy that burnt down number 33, where the Asian family lived.

Ha Ha.
- osmanthus
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Re: Hello
Reply #19 - October 19, 2008, 09:39 AM

True. Anyway I agree that UBA site looks a tad on the dodgey side, which is why I didn't exactly jump at the idea of links. OTOH I'm prepared to give United a fair chance at the moment. If he/she sticks around we'll find out more about them.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello
Reply #20 - October 19, 2008, 10:26 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on October 19, 2008, 09:39 AM
True. Anyway I agree that UBA site looks a tad on the dodgey side, which is why I didn't exactly jump at the idea of links. OTOH I'm prepared to give United a fair chance at the moment. If he/she sticks around we'll find out more about them.

Fair dues, but there's something about the name......United. hmmm. British Born n Bred...good old British monkers

Ha Ha.
- BerberElla
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Re: Hello
Reply #21 - October 19, 2008, 10:29 AM

Hey my name has Berber in it, all that national pride must be killing you right?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello
Reply #22 - October 19, 2008, 01:19 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on October 19, 2008, 10:29 AM
Hey my name has Berber in it, all that national pride must be killing you right?

National pride in the UK seems to mean something other than just being proud of one's country. Moroccan pride is not something that worries me.

Ha Ha.
- BerberElla
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Re: Hello
Reply #23 - October 19, 2008, 01:24 PM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on October 19, 2008, 01:19 PM
Quote from: BerberElla on October 19, 2008, 10:29 AM
Hey my name has Berber in it, all that national pride must be killing you right?

National pride in the UK seems to mean something other than just being proud of one's country. Moroccan pride is not something that worries me.

Are you sure, cos you know we have some eveeeeeeeeel plans I recommend you to be worried.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello
Reply #24 - October 19, 2008, 01:27 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on October 19, 2008, 01:24 PM
Quote from: Jack Torrance on October 19, 2008, 01:19 PM
Quote from: BerberElla on October 19, 2008, 10:29 AM
Hey my name has Berber in it, all that national pride must be killing you right?

National pride in the UK seems to mean something other than just being proud of one's country. Moroccan pride is not something that worries me.

Are you sure, cos you know we have some eveeeeeeeeel plans I recommend you to be worried.

Nope, recommendation not taken. I've never seen a Moroccan lager lout. Plenty of drunk Moroccans, but there's a big difference.

Ha Ha.
- BerberElla
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Re: Hello
Reply #25 - October 19, 2008, 01:30 PM

True, mind you my uncle was/is an alcoholic and he WOULD be a lager lout if that was the way things were done over there, I just know it.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #26 - October 19, 2008, 07:21 PM

There's no magic solution to changing the image people have other than continually driving home the message that the opposite is true.

Just like some Labour politicians go and on about being strong on Law & Order or supportive of business or some Conservative politicians go on about helping the poor and needy.

In other words if people have an image or stereotype of something that is wrong and undesirable - one has to simply make a greater effort in the opposite direction to break down that image or stereotype.

Ex-Muslims are associated with the far-right by many people. Regardless of how wrong and ignorant that may be - it is a fact - and we need to make a continual effort to change that.

One way is to make sure any visitors to this site are made well aware of that.

And if visitors from groups that like UBA are made to feel unwelcome, and go off telling all their friends that the Council of Ex-Muslims don't want to be friends - then I personally think that's a good thing as it means that it will be known to more and more people that the assumption that we are aligned with such dick-heads - is wrong!
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello
Reply #27 - October 19, 2008, 07:31 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 19, 2008, 07:21 PM
There's no magic solution to changing the image people have other than continually driving home the message that the opposite is true.

Just like some Labour politicians go and on about being strong on Law & Order or supportive of business or some Conservative politicians go on about helping the poor and needy.

In other words if people have an image or stereotype of something that is wrong and undesirable - one has to simply make a greater effort in the opposite direction to break down that image or stereotype.

Ex-Muslims are associated with the far-right by many people. Regardless of how wrong and ignorant that may be - it is a fact - and we need to make a continual effort to change that.

One way is to make sure any visitors to this site are made well aware of that.

And if visitors from groups that like UBA are made to feel unwelcome, and go off telling all their friends that the Council of Ex-Muslims don't want to be friends - then I personally think that's a good thing as it means that it will be known to more and more people that the assumption that we are aligned with such dick-heads - is wrong!

Good stuff

Ha Ha.
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Re: Hello
Reply #28 - October 19, 2008, 07:38 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 19, 2008, 07:21 PM
There's no magic solution to changing the image people have other than continually driving home the message that the opposite is true.

Just like some Labour politicians go and on about being strong on Law & Order or supportive of business or some Conservative politicians go on about helping the poor and needy.

In other words if people have an image or stereotype of something that is wrong and undesirable - one has to simply make a greater effort in the opposite direction to break down that image or stereotype.

Ex-Muslims are associated with the far-right by many people. Regardless of how wrong and ignorant that may be - it is a fact - and we need to make a continual effort to change that.

One way is to make sure any visitors to this site are made well aware of that.

And if visitors from groups that like UBA are made to feel unwelcome, and go off telling all their friends that the Council of Ex-Muslims don't want to be friends - then I personally think that's a good thing as it means that it will be known to more and more people that the assumption that we are aligned with such dick-heads - is wrong!

Fair enough.

To arms people, to arms, lets bring some pain down to anyone who wants to associate us with right wing prudes. , legolas you're with me..... ^{("ok boss")}

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Hello
Reply #29 - October 23, 2008, 01:58 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 19, 2008, 07:21 PM
There's no magic solution to changing the image people have other than continually driving home the message that the opposite is true.

Just like some Labour politicians go and on about being strong on Law & Order or supportive of business or some Conservative politicians go on about helping the poor and needy.

In other words if people have an image or stereotype of something that is wrong and undesirable - one has to simply make a greater effort in the opposite direction to break down that image or stereotype.

Ex-Muslims are associated with the far-right by many people. Regardless of how wrong and ignorant that may be - it is a fact - and we need to make a continual effort to change that.

One way is to make sure any visitors to this site are made well aware of that.

And if visitors from groups that like UBA are made to feel unwelcome, and go off telling all their friends that the Council of Ex-Muslims don't want to be friends - then I personally think that's a good thing as it means that it will be known to more and more people that the assumption that we are aligned with such dick-heads - is wrong!

Yes, that seems about right. I suppose the bannered links on the homepage should tell them something.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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