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Theme Changer

 Topic: Woman Leading Prayer

 (Read 6198 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     OP - October 17, 2008, 07:06 PM

    Quote
    A female professor has become the first woman to lead a mixed congregation in Islamic prayer in Britain.

    American Amina Wadud arrived in Oxford to give the Friday sermon.

    The move has angered many Muslims and a small group of protesters gathered outside Wolfson College to voice their opposition.

    Professor Wadud took the service - or khutbah - to mark the start of a conference on Islam and feminism at the college.

    Leap forward

    It is Islamic tradition that imams, who are always men, hold mixed services.

    But the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford (MECO), which invited Professor Wadud to lead the prayers, described the event as a "leap forward for theological destiny".

       
    Protesters
    We're here to uphold the traditions and the values of Islam and uphold the ways of the prophet - peace be upon him
    Aishah Samah, protester

    "There's nothing in the Koran that prohibits it," she said.

    "My own theological research into the essence of Islam indicates the necessity for us to be able to move away from the tradition that restricted women from the practice of leading prayer."

    "This is not my norm," she added.

    "My norm is to pray and then cook dinner or something."

    One protester said having a woman leading prayers in this way was "against Islam".

    "We're here to uphold the traditions and the values of Islam and uphold the ways of the prophet - peace be upon him," said Aishah Samah, a protester from Oxford.

    'Highly-respected'

    Another Muslim woman, Maryan Ramzy, said: "We have no objections to women being heads of state, or organisation leaders.

    "Women are highly-respected in Islam. But in Islamic law, women cannot lead prayer."

    The protestors had ignored a plea from a local Muslim leader not to picket the mosque as it would give the event more publicity.

    "I urge the local Muslim people not to protest," said Sabir Hussain Mirza, the chairman of the Muslim Council of Oxford.

    The council said it represented 98% of Muslims in Oxford and opposed women leading mixed prayers.

    However, Mr Mirza said that the event was "nothing to do with us".

    In March 2005, Professor Wadud held Friday prayers to a mixed congregation in New York.

    Protests were also held on that occasion.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7676239.stm

    I thought there was a hadith or something which said women should occupy the back rows of prayer meetings.  How is she going to lead prayer from the back of the room?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #1 - October 17, 2008, 07:12 PM

    Modernising a religion does not make it true lol why can't these people see that.  Roll Eyes

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #2 - August 28, 2013, 09:19 PM

    It's apparently becoming more and more common in the US to have mixed prayers, tends to be a little more accepted, abet grudgingly. I find the contrast when compared to the States and the Inclusive Mosque Initiative here in the UK striking.

    As for modernising, obviously it doesn't make it any more true. That said, I don't think it can be helped. We are influenced by the lives we live in the place we live. I've often thought there would be a sort of American version of islam, a sort of European version of islam. I'm less interested in a world without religion than I am a world where religion is benign.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #3 - August 29, 2013, 04:48 AM

    "Women are highly-respected in Islam. But in Islamic law, women cannot lead prayer."

    This right here...Women are well respected in Islam and can do whatever she wants,.... except for these long list of things right here.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #4 - September 05, 2013, 08:38 PM

    The only way a woman can lead a prayer is by doing it in front. Nevertheless even if the woman is doing it in the back, she is still violating Islamic religious teachings.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #5 - September 05, 2013, 09:19 PM

    The only way a woman can lead a prayer is by doing it in front. Nevertheless even if the woman is doing it in the back, she is still violating Islamic religious teachings.

    Helloo  C1981.,  greetings and my good wishes to you.., Never read you C1981,  sounds like  a name of explosive.. lol..

    So where did you get that? what book and what/whose Islamic religious teachings?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #6 - September 05, 2013, 09:25 PM

    The only way a woman can lead a prayer is by doing it in front. Nevertheless even if the woman is doing it in the back, she is still violating Islamic religious teachings.


    Same in christianity, hasn't stopped the rise of female vicars and pastors.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #7 - September 05, 2013, 09:31 PM

    www.livingislam.org/o/wbm_e.html
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #8 - September 05, 2013, 09:32 PM

    Same in christianity, hasn't stopped the rise of female vicars and pastors.


    Actually in the book of Romans St. Paul praised a woman named Phoebe lead a house Church.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #9 - September 05, 2013, 09:35 PM



    I am asking a verse from Quran not some guy saying something C1981..   I am one of those WHO REJECTS COMPLETE HADITH...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #10 - September 05, 2013, 09:46 PM

    Except for Quran only, most Muslims recognize the Hadiths a secondary source. I go by what those Muslims believe. Quran only is an attempt to make Islam look less bad. Quran only Muslims are not being honest with themselves.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #11 - September 05, 2013, 09:46 PM

    Actually in the book of Romans St. Paul praised a woman named Phoebe lead a house Church.


    Yeah, the church of Cenchreae. It's been deemphasized especially in some modern translations. But I acknowledge Paul referred to her as a deacon and prostatis in spite of biblical teachings (unless you're a Christian who disregards the old testament?) so why can't muslims do the same, which these people are trying to do?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #12 - September 05, 2013, 09:48 PM

    By the way, this seems to be quickly becoming a christian vs islam thread. People here aren't going to defend the quran/hadith as true. Note the ex muslim bit.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #13 - September 05, 2013, 09:51 PM

    Yeah, the church of Cenchreae. It's been deemphasized especially in some modern translations. But I acknowledge Paul referred to her as a deacon and prostatis in spite of biblical teachings (unless you're a Christian who disregards the old testament?) so why can't muslims do the same, which these people are trying to do?


    I am not saying Muslims can't do the same. What I am saying this is what their religious texts promote. They are going against what their religious texts preach.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #14 - September 05, 2013, 09:53 PM

    Unless you believe the new testament invalidates the old testament so was Paul. If the OT no longer applies thanks to the NT then Paul wasn't going against the christian teachings. Though I would note Jesus said the OT is still true and still applies.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #15 - September 05, 2013, 10:05 PM

    Except for Quran only, most Muslims recognize the Hadiths a secondary source.

    Those muslims don't read Quran., Quran is only word of allah., Quran rejects Hadith So  I would consider them as heretic Muslims and devil followers..

    Quote
    I go by what those Muslims believe. Quran only is an attempt to make Islam look less bad. Quran only Muslims are not being honest with themselves.

    No you should not go some Muslims .. what they  and say and what they do.. Go by Quran..  Bad or good., they are only the real Muslims..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #16 - September 05, 2013, 10:21 PM

    Unless you believe the new testament invalidates the old testament so was Paul. If the OT no longer applies thanks to the NT then Paul wasn't going against the christian teachings. Though I would note Jesus said the OT is still true and still applies.


    Quod are you familiar with Halakha?
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #17 - September 05, 2013, 10:21 PM

    Those muslims don't read Quran., Quran is only word of allah., Quran rejects Hadith So  I would consider them as heretic Muslims and devil followers..
    No you should not go some Muslims .. what they  and say and what they do.. Go by Quran..  Bad or good., they are only the real Muslims..


    Yeezeevee that is a no true scotsman fallacy.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #18 - September 05, 2013, 10:26 PM

    Yes, halakha is the jewish version of sharia.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #19 - September 05, 2013, 10:58 PM

    Not quite.

    Halakha is a compilation of religious laws for Jews including Biblical law, Talmudic, and Rabbinic law. In the Bible there is the law of the covenant and the law to govern Jewish society. Jesus fulfilled the law of the covenant and the law governing Jewish society was discarded by St. Paul.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #20 - September 05, 2013, 11:03 PM

    Halakha is a compilation of religious laws for Jews including Biblical law, Talmudic, and Rabbinic law.


    Right so what QSE said as sharia is also a compilation of religious laws from different sources.

    fuck you
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #21 - September 05, 2013, 11:10 PM

    Halakha is a compilation of religious laws for jews. Sharia is a compilation of religious laws for muslims.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #22 - September 05, 2013, 11:38 PM

    Right so what QSE said as sharia is also a compilation of religious laws from different sources.


    I am not that familiar with Sharia. From what I understand Sharia comes from Islamic religious texts.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #23 - September 05, 2013, 11:42 PM

    You've been studying islam for several years and you aren't familiar with sharia? Like I said, it's the muslim version of halakha, a compilation of religious laws.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #24 - September 06, 2013, 12:07 AM

    From what I understand sharia comes from Islamic religious texts and it governs Muslim society. Islam is a total way of life and sharia is part of that. It basically tells Muslims how to live their lives.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #25 - September 06, 2013, 12:08 AM

    Keep in mind I still consider myself a novice to Islam, not an expert.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #26 - September 06, 2013, 12:09 AM

    Same as halakha. And also as with jews, not every muslim is orthodox.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #27 - September 06, 2013, 12:09 AM

    From what I understand sharia comes from Islamic religious texts and it governs Muslim society. Islam is a total way of life and sharia is part of that. It basically tells Muslims how to live their lives.



    As does Halakha for Jews, well Orthodox ones anyways.

    fuck you
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #28 - September 11, 2013, 01:04 PM

    A woman leading prayer is like a monkey flying a plane... you know what is bound to happen. IMO.
  • Woman Leading Prayer
     Reply #29 - September 12, 2013, 12:17 AM

    Someone give this lad a peanut and put him back in his cage.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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