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Theme Changer

 Topic: Abortion ???

 (Read 9308 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Abortion ???
     OP - October 21, 2008, 09:48 AM
    Hello,

    Lately I have been thinking about abortion. So I thought, I would ask your opinions. Should law be concerned with abortions? Or it should be left completely upto families?

    If someone kills 1 minute old baby, s/he will be subjected to trial.  1 minute old baby is not much different from 8 months old fetus. Similarly 23 weeks old fetus not very much different from 24 week old fetus.  There is not a definite moment when fetus turns from a potential baby to baby.
    So why legal protection is available only after birth?


    Not that I support any religious notions, not that I will ever think that the parents who opt for abortion are sinners or killers. And I know, abortion is the most difficult choice that parents opt for, most people don't do it as a casual thing.  Plus, I support abortion in case of rape, child with abnormality, child birth as a risk to mother etc.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #1 - October 21, 2008, 09:54 AM
    I've never been too comfortable with abortion. I've always felt it to be a form of bullying the defenseless but that's just my take on it.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #2 - October 21, 2008, 10:05 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 09:48 AM
    Hello,

    Lately I have been thinking about abortion. So I thought, I would ask your opinions. Should law be concerned with abortions? Or it should be left completely upto families?



    I think left up to the family. but after eighteen years old, the child should be allowed to live Wink
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #3 - October 21, 2008, 10:20 AM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on October 21, 2008, 10:05 AM
    I think left up to the family. but after eighteen years old, the child should be allowed to live Wink


    Wow, so you mean we should be able to shoot those nasty, devil, adamant toddlers Wink  dance
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #4 - October 21, 2008, 10:26 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 10:20 AM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on October 21, 2008, 10:05 AM
    I think left up to the family. but after eighteen years old, the child should be allowed to live Wink


    Wow, so you mean we should be able to shoot those nasty, devil, adamant toddlers Wink  dance



    Absolutely! Smiley
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #5 - October 21, 2008, 11:30 AM
    I told when mother once, when I was mad at her and hated life, "I wish I had been an abortion." I wish I never said that. I learned either shortly before or after she died that I could've had a brother after me, he was aborted or a miscarriage, I forget which. She was raped. When she was pregnant and I was four, I told her I wanted a brother, and reminded her again after she gave birth to my sister.

    I am against abortion. It would suck if the birth control didn't work, but I think the couple should still have the baby if she gets pregnant. If they don't want it they should give it up for adoption.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #6 - October 21, 2008, 11:34 AM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on October 21, 2008, 10:05 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 09:48 AM
    Hello,

    Lately I have been thinking about abortion. So I thought, I would ask your opinions. Should law be concerned with abortions? Or it should be left completely upto families?



    I think left up to the family. but after eighteen years old, the child should be allowed to live Wink


    I like your thinking  whistling2

    Hmm I don't know too much on the topic but the law is enforced so women can't have abortions after 24 weeks or something which is recognised as the time when the baby develops a heart and brain?? Something like that, can't remember from my ethics class. They also say that apparently it's safer for a woman to have an abortion within the first 24 weeks? Meh, I dunno.

    Awais I am sorry about what happened to your mother :( ...but I totally disagree on your view of abortion. Things aren't just as simple as abortion or adoption. There is a lot of trauma involved in rape, and it's all well and easy to SAY "oh she should just keep the rape child, it's not the child's fault" or "oh she should have the baby and give it up for adoption" but it's much harder to do something like that. As a woman, if I were raped and I became pregnant, as much as I don't blame the child, I would not want to have this rape child as a memory of a rape that I just want to erase. There is a lot of emotional stress involved there.

    Also, adoption homes already overflowing with orphans, why are we encouraging more? With hope that Brangelina will eventually adopt them all and the world will be happy again? Oh come on.

    That's just one example. I can give more if you want.

    I think I like the way it is at the moment. At least mothers arent gouging out the baby with a metal coat hanger (and other messed up shit).
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #7 - October 21, 2008, 11:39 AM
    Actually, people will have disagreements on this issue. Like, personally, I will live with little devil if latex failed to do the job  parrot

    However, my issue is shall government make policies on abortion?

    I guess, Jack Torrance says, no.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #8 - October 21, 2008, 11:45 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 11:39 AM
    Actually, people will have disagreements on this issue. Like, personally, I will live with little devil if latex failed to do the job  parrot

    However, my issue is shall government make policies on abortion?

    I guess, Jack Torrance says, no.


    I don't quite understand your post. Maybe it's the fatigue kicking in. The government already has a policy on abortion.

    Quote
    Summary of legal grounds and time limits for abortion as laid out in the 1967 Abortion Act

    Up to 24 weeks two doctors must decide that the risk to a woman’s physical or mental health or the risk to her child(ren)’s physical or mental health will be greater if she continues with the pregnancy than if she ends it.


    Also just a stat...

    Quote
    What happens in practice

    Despite legal time limits 87% of abortions take place within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. In many parts of the country it is difficult to access abortion after 12 weeks.


    Both taken from Education for Choice website.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #9 - October 21, 2008, 11:56 AM
    Yes, I am sorry, was not clear.

    - Government already have policy on it. But, Is it their business? I mean, shall they leave it upto mother completely?

    - And from the totally opposite side, If it is there business, why 24 weeks in particular. Why can't 10 weeks old fetus get a legal protection, why legal protection are availble only after birth?

    I really don't know my own stand yet, just thinking out loud
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #10 - October 21, 2008, 11:58 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 11:39 AM
    Actually, people will have disagreements on this issue. Like, personally, I will live with little devil if latex failed to do the job  parrot

    However, my issue is shall government make policies on abortion?

    I guess, Jack Torrance says, no.



    What do I say no to?
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #11 - October 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 11:56 AM
    Yes, I am sorry, was not clear.

    - Government already have policy on it. But, Is it their business? I mean, shall they leave it upto mother completely?

    - And from the totally opposite side, If it is there business, why 24 weeks in particular. Why can't 10 weeks old fetus get a legal protection, why legal protection are availble only after birth?

    I really don't know my own stand yet, just thinking out loud



    Because during the time of pregnancy, the mother is seemingly stressed out and extremely hormonal? (I dont know, I've never been pregnant lol)...and if you leave it upto the mother, she might get a 'cold feet' of some sorts and abort at last minute? I dunno, I'm just making it up as I go along but I would think that was why. It also endangers a mothers life if she has an abortion later than 24 weeks. It's been researched in the medical field and they've chosen it as the 'safe zone' of sorts.

    What kind of legal protection would a 10 week old fetus get? You mean why is abortion legal at 10 weeks yet the killing of a born baby isn't?

    People would argue that the fetus is just a bunch of tissue I guess at that 'age' in the womb. That's possibly why. It's a potential life, but not yet a life.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #12 - October 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
    I thought, you meant that government should not get involved in making abortion policies and it should be left to families.

    Do I interpret correctly?

    Atleast in the UK, government is already involved, I know, biut was just taking opinion.

    Quote from: Jack Torrance on October 21, 2008, 11:58 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 11:39 AM
    Actually, people will have disagreements on this issue. Like, personally, I will live with little devil if latex failed to do the job  parrot

    However, my issue is shall government make policies on abortion?

    I guess, Jack Torrance says, no.



    What do I say no to?

  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #13 - October 21, 2008, 12:08 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 21, 2008, 12:06 PM


    What kind of legal protection would a 10 week old fetus get? You mean why is abortion legal at 10 weeks yet the killing of a born baby isn't?

    People would argue that the fetus is just a bunch of tissue I guess at that 'age' in the womb. That's possibly why. It's a potential life, but not yet a life.


    Exactly, I am thinking this. How that limit is decided. I understand the difference between a potential human and human. But, it is not a sudden change, it is very gradual. So, where to draw line is very difficult.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #14 - October 21, 2008, 12:22 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 12:08 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 21, 2008, 12:06 PM


    What kind of legal protection would a 10 week old fetus get? You mean why is abortion legal at 10 weeks yet the killing of a born baby isn't?

    People would argue that the fetus is just a bunch of tissue I guess at that 'age' in the womb. That's possibly why. It's a potential life, but not yet a life.


    Exactly, I am thinking this. How that limit is decided. I understand the difference between a potential human and human. But, it is not a sudden change, it is very gradual. So, where to draw line is very difficult.


    From a medical point of view, 24 weeks is the cut off date because past that, the mother is at risk. Statistically, there are rarely any negative effects from having an abortion before 24 weeks, but after that there is risk. Also if a woman has a premature birth of a 24 week old baby, it has virtually no chance of survival, because it is not developed as a child, a human.

    Quote
    Only 15 per cent of fetuses born before 23-weeks survive to leave their neo-natal units and most will suffer severe health and/or physical problems. Babies born as prematurely as 21-22 weeks are nearly always born brain damaged and severely disabled - meaning that they may have very little quality of life to look forward to.


    Source: http://www.redpepper.org.uk/24-reasons-for-24-weeks

  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #15 - October 21, 2008, 12:43 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 09:48 AM
    Hello,

    Lately I have been thinking about abortion. So I thought, I would ask your opinions. Should law be concerned with abortions? Or it should be left completely upto families?

    If someone kills 1 minute old baby, s/he will be subjected to trial.  1 minute old baby is not much different from 8 months old fetus. Similarly 23 weeks old fetus not very much different from 24 week old fetus.  There is not a definite moment when fetus turns from a potential baby to baby.
    So why legal protection is available only after birth?


    Not that I support any religious notions, not that I will ever think that the parents who opt for abortion are sinners or killers. And I know, abortion is the most difficult choice that parents opt for, most people don't do it as a casual thing.  Plus, I support abortion in case of rape, child with abnormality, child birth as a risk to mother etc.


    Sorry what?  is that some kind of typo?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #16 - October 21, 2008, 12:46 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 21, 2008, 11:34 AM
    They also say that apparently it's safer for a woman to have an abortion within the first 24 weeks? Meh, I dunno.



    Actually legal abortions for no reason other than "I don't want it" are 11-12 weeks limit, after that you have to have some major serious reason, ie birth defects or danger to life of mother to get an abortion.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #17 - October 21, 2008, 01:24 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 21, 2008, 12:46 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 21, 2008, 11:34 AM
    They also say that apparently it's safer for a woman to have an abortion within the first 24 weeks? Meh, I dunno.



    Actually legal abortions for no reason other than "I don't want it" are 11-12 weeks limit, after that you have to have some major serious reason, ie birth defects or danger to life of mother to get an abortion.




    Aha, learn something new everyday. Thanks for letting me know.

  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #18 - October 21, 2008, 02:39 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
    I thought, you meant that government should not get involved in making abortion policies and it should be left to families.

    Do I interpret correctly?




    I think it's fair enough to introduce a time limit in which you can have one, but on the whole, the less government nosing around, the better.
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #19 - October 21, 2008, 03:26 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on October 21, 2008, 11:34 AM
    I think I like the way it is at the moment. At least mothers arent gouging out the baby with a metal coat hanger (and other messed up shit).


    Yes, thank god for that.

    I remembered this, thought I'd share:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYDxZlRqx4

    I am opposed to abortion because I think, what if I was her? I want for my brother what I want for myself.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #20 - October 21, 2008, 03:34 PM
    Well that's just disgusting, I don't approve of abortions so late on for any reason (apart from mothers life)  even disability wouldn't put me off once a pregnancy has progressed beyond the first trimester.   because sometimes "miracles" do happen.  Children who doctors predicted would die somehow survive and beat the odds, and sometimes the tests telling you your baby is deformed are false (like what happened to my aunty).

    However I believe in a womans right to choose when the feotus is still unformed. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #21 - October 21, 2008, 03:54 PM
    Most disgusting things happen in India. Some people abort female fetus if they already have 2-3 daughters, and they don't abort male fetus. Obviously government has banned gender identification of fetus, but back street clinics still exist.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #22 - October 21, 2008, 03:56 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on October 21, 2008, 03:54 PM
    Most disgusting things happen in India. Some people abort female fetus if they already have 2-3 daughters, and they don't abort male fetus. Obviously government has banned gender identification of fetus, but back street clinics still exist.


    Yes I have read about that, the government need to crack down harder, actually catch and prosecute people who go to back street clinics, I mean female infanticide really needs to stop.  finmad
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #23 - October 21, 2008, 04:03 PM
    I dont get why people in a western country might do that. Everyone knows that girl children are more fun than boy children. Boy children just wanna hit you.

    There can't really be a punishment for it though can there? It was their choice to adopt or not. They can just say they want an abortion and dont even have to tell that it was about it being a female
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #24 - October 21, 2008, 04:06 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on October 21, 2008, 04:03 PM
    I dont get why people in a western country might do that. Everyone knows that girl children are more fun than boy children. Boy children just wanna hit you.

    There can't really be a punishment for it though can there? It was their choice to adopt or not. They can just say they want an abortion and dont even have to tell that it was about it being a female


    Tough one to deal with.

    During my second pregnancy the woman wouldn't tell me if it was a boy or a girl because she said that was their policy (ie their policy with women from certain minority groups) as during my first pregnancy I wasn't in a hijab and they just told me what I was having.  Roll Eyes
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #25 - October 21, 2008, 04:08 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 21, 2008, 04:06 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on October 21, 2008, 04:03 PM
    I dont get why people in a western country might do that. Everyone knows that girl children are more fun than boy children. Boy children just wanna hit you.

    There can't really be a punishment for it though can there? It was their choice to adopt or not. They can just say they want an abortion and dont even have to tell that it was about it being a female


    Tough one to deal with.

    During my second pregnancy the woman wouldn't tell me if it was a boy or a girl because she said that was their policy (ie their policy with women from certain minority groups) as during my first pregnancy I wasn't in a hijab and they just told me what I was having.  Roll Eyes


    Its better that way. You didnt really need to know did you?

    I would actually hope for a girl rather than a boy. No offence to boys but I like girls better.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #26 - October 21, 2008, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on October 21, 2008, 04:08 PM


    Its better that way. You didnt really need to know did you?


    yeah I did, it wouldn't have changed anything for me and I did find out because I went back when a different lady was doing them lol but it helps knowing what colours to get.  Tongue

    Quote

    I would actually hope for a girl rather than a boy. No offence to boys but I like girls better.


    I wanted a girl from day one, even wrote GIRL PLEASE across my tummy, but I got two boys before I had a girl.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #27 - October 21, 2008, 04:11 PM
    It appears I am hijacking this thread, sorry.  lipsrsealed
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Abortion ???
     Reply #28 - October 21, 2008, 04:13 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 21, 2008, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on October 21, 2008, 04:08 PM


    Its better that way. You didnt really need to know did you?


    yeah I did, it wouldn't have changed anything for me and I did find out because I went back when a different lady was doing them lol but it helps knowing what colours to get.  Tongue

    Quote

    I would actually hope for a girl rather than a boy. No offence to boys but I like girls better.


    I wanted a girl from day one, even wrote GIRL PLEASE across my tummy, but I got two boys before I had a girl.




    Oh right. Never thought of it that way.

    I still reckons someone should get an abortion if something really bad would happen as a result
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