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 Topic: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE

 (Read 14874 times)
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  • QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     OP - November 06, 2008, 05:58 PM

    I hope that those who are truely interested in Islam will have the patience to read my whole article slowly as it has unique view points and I have tried to be a subtle as possible realizing sensitivities. The introduction goes thus and the link to the article follows:
    Prologue

    The Qur'an contains a very complex number of verses because it was purported to have been written in the 7th Century scribes of that time and has altered little since that time. It was not arrenged in a chronologival manner but by the lengths of the verses. Hence there is no real logical sequence. The Qur'an has been further complicated by the fact that The Prophet Mohammed altered or updated (abrogated) his views as circumstances changes in his life and expereinces. Unfortunated several of the abrogated verses were not removed from the original Qur'an but left behind without any reference to the abrogation except in a general way and this has caused even further ambiguities.

    The verses seem to have been thrown together without much organization, and thus different implications can be manipulated or interpreted to mean different concepts , dependent upon the skill of the reader and their intentions. We will attempt to look at some of these ambiguities to make sense of the verses and the intention of the Prophet Mohammed when he had them  transmitted to his followers. Furthermore, the original text was written on clasical Arabic that refer to the diction used in the 7th Century. Often Arabic words are based upon the root symbols and can mean different things, dependent upon where the "accent marks are placed of if they are missing due to errors or ineptitudes." This makes for the need for great skills in attempting to analyse the intent of the verse.

    Islam Means Peace

    That is what we are constantly told by most Muslims. In fact most Muslims believe that that is what Islam means and stands for, but is this so according to the roots of the word?

    Islam is derived from the Arabic aslama, which means 'surrender' (to the will of Allah). Muslim means 'one who has surrendered to the will of Allah'. And unfortunately, violence, under certain conditions, is a legitimate means to affect that surrender.

    "The argument that Islam means peace is based on a three-fold interpretive error.

       1. Arabic is based on consonantal roots. Islam is derived from the root SLM. Arabic is also a poetic language that uses words derived from the same root as similes that are used to deepen the meaning of other words. SLM is also the root for the words salim, which means 'safe', saleem, 'perfection', sallama, 'salvation', salama, 'blameless' and salaam, 'wellbeing'. Using all of these words gives an expanded meaning to the word Islam: 'when one surrenders to the will of Allah (as revealed by His Prophet) one will find salvation, perfection, safety and wellbeing.'
       2. The word salaam is often translated as 'peace', but this is only one of several meanings. It's primary meaning is actually 'wellbeing'. It can also mean health, soundness, wholeness, safety and serenity. A common Arabic greeting is as-sallam alaykum, which is usually translated as 'peace be upon you', but it's extended meaning is 'may wellbeing, wholeness and tranquility be upon you'.
       3. The English word 'peace' has two meanings. The first and primary meaning is derived from its Latin root pax. This is translated as 'cessation of conflict'. The term pax Romana described the peace secured by surrendering to Roman law. The second meaning of peace is derived from the Latin serenus, meaning serenity/tranquility - when one is serene one can also be said to be peaceful. The word salaam is actually synonymous with the second meaning of peace, serenity. The first meaning is better served by the Arabic word sulh (root SLH), from salaha, meaning; reconciliation, to make peace, or peace treaty.

    In saying that Islam means peace Islamic apologists are simply indulging in word play in order to put as positive a spin on things as they can. It is an attempt to argue that Islam promotes non-violence. As we will see such a peace is only available to one who has first surrendered to Allah and it is denied to those who refuse to surrender. Mohammed would sign his treaty offers with the words, aslem taslam, 'surrender and you will be safe'." [1]

    http://knol.google.com/k/mbp-lee/quranic-ambiguities-analyzed/1l23x9udotn1a/8#[ftp]http://knol.google.com/k/mbp-lee/quranic-ambiguities-analyzed/1l23x9udotn1a/8#/ftp]
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #1 - November 06, 2008, 06:30 PM

    Not a bad overview of some of the more common misconceptions of Islam, although it would make more sense to call the article Islamic Ambiguities Analyzed, as it isn't koran specific.  There are some typing and spelling errors which don't help to make it look as polished as it could and I'm not sure about the relevance of the picture of the Taj Mahal in a piece about Islam, either.

    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #2 - November 06, 2008, 06:36 PM

    Gonzo, thank you for your comments. I will have to run through it again to edit spelling errors etc. No, the Photo has no connection, it was there to create an pictorial diversion (interest) and will be replaced when I find something more suitable. Thanks for your comments.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #3 - November 06, 2008, 06:41 PM

    Gonzo, thank you for your comments. I will have to run through it again to edit spelling errors etc. No, the Photo has no connection, it was there to create an pictorial diversion (interest) and will be replaced when I find something more suitable. Thanks for your comments.


    No problem, maybe this picture of the Masjid Al-Haram (sacred Mosque) would be more appropriate for an article on Islam.  There is no restrictions on the use of the photo:



    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #4 - November 06, 2008, 06:42 PM

    I'm so sick of this picture.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #5 - November 06, 2008, 06:58 PM

    I'm so sick of this picture.

    First time I've seen it. Reminds me of a big prison camp.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #6 - November 06, 2008, 07:11 PM

    Gonzo, thank you for your picture. I have downloaded it to my Islamic album, but I am not quite sure if it is exactly what I am looking for. I probably would prefer a single picture of a famous Mosque, or some striking Islamic Icon as a focal point. The reason I will wait is, it is quite a manoeuvre  to remove a photo once it is placed in the Google Knol, and so I want to find something striking before I change it. All suggestions are welcome.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #7 - November 06, 2008, 07:14 PM

    Gonzo, thank you for your picture. I have downloaded it to my Islamic album, but I am not quite sure if it is exactly what I am looking for. I probably would prefer a single picture of a famous Mosque, or some striking Islamic Icon as a focal point. The reason I will wait is, it is quite a manoeuvre  to remove a photo once it is placed in the Google Knol, and so I want to find something striking before I change it. All suggestions are welcome.


    As Mosques go the one in the picture is the most famous and the focal point of the hajj.  Nevertheless there are better pictures to be found on the internet.

    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #8 - November 06, 2008, 07:23 PM

    As Mosques go the one in the picture is the most famous and the focal point of the hajj.  Nevertheless there are better pictures to be found on the internet.


    What he said. I'm surprised you don't recognise it for writing an article on Islam.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #9 - November 06, 2008, 07:57 PM

    I have browsed the web for a suitable picture, and it is not easy to find one that is Free on the internet that is suitable. I suppose I will have to continue to search.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #10 - November 06, 2008, 09:38 PM

    I'm so sick of this picture.

    First time I've seen it. Reminds me of a big prison camp.

    Or a Brazilian football stadium.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #11 - November 06, 2008, 09:43 PM

    Gonzo, thank you for your comments. I will have to run through it again to edit spelling errors etc. No, the Photo has no connection, it was there to create an pictorial diversion (interest) and will be replaced when I find something more suitable. Thanks for your comments.

    Hows about a piccy of Mo.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #12 - November 06, 2008, 10:07 PM

     Cheesy Yeah there are plenty of them around from classical Islamic sources. It actually isn't such a bad suggestion. Hagia Sophia would be another option.

    Anyway I agree with Gonzo. It's a good start but needs some polishing.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #13 - November 06, 2008, 10:16 PM

    osmanthus thank you for your kind words. I will edit it if you will give me suggestions where and what! I am open to constructive criticism any time. That is how I can learn more. Any suggestions are welcome.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #14 - November 06, 2008, 10:20 PM

    osmanthus thank you for your kind words. I will edit it if you will give me suggestions where and what! I am open to constructive criticism any time. That is how I can learn more. Any suggestions are welcome.


    You might want to change the bit about 6 pillars, you can still mention 6 pillars but is better to state that the mainstream Sunni opinion is that there are 5 pillars, Shias do however include Jihad as a core part of Islam so it could be more a discussion on Jihad in Islam rather than 6 pillars of Islam.

    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #15 - November 06, 2008, 10:26 PM

    Thank you Gonzo, that will be one area that I will have to polish up and clarify and maybe word it more diplomatically. Thanks. I have to sign off now as it is getting late. Bye!
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #16 - November 07, 2008, 08:05 AM

    Nice article. I agree with Gonzo that the title should not be koran-centric since half the article is not about the koran. Also the spelling mistakes take a lot out of the editorial. Did you get a hold of them Elle or you want me to list them as i find them?


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #17 - November 07, 2008, 10:04 AM

    Baal, thank you. If you would highlight any of the errors it would certainly help speed up the editing. Thank you for your observations. Also, please list those topics that you see no relevance to Qur'anic beliefs. Perhaps I could do something about that as well. I am loath to alter the Title because it has already been earmarked on several Search Engines. Perhaps I could make an explanation, or add a sub-title.

    PS: I have to go for a hospital appointment soon, and that will take a good part of a day, but after that I will edit that article as it also needs some rewording so as not to get some backs up. But the essence will remain the same. All the comments here has been greatly helpful in influencing my forthcoming editing. Thanks all for your comments.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #18 - November 07, 2008, 11:24 AM

    Eelle, where is the verse in the Quran which says Islam means peace? I mean you are talking about the ambiguities in the Quran and yet not even being specific. In fact I don't know of any reputable Muslim scholar who has interpreted "Islam" as "peace" most Muslims know Islam means "submission to the will of god" you are right about the root word meaning peace. 
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #19 - November 07, 2008, 11:32 AM

    Eelle, just stick to your day job, frankly I get annoyed with folks who try to write about Islam, without even trying to be objective or not even understanding the subject they are supposedly writing about. From your article I did not learn anything I did not know before. What is the point of writing an article, on Islam, when you can google Islam in two minutes and come to a better conclusion.

    Am sorry I have to be harsh to you, but that is the reality.   
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #20 - November 07, 2008, 03:42 PM

    Half the editorial is about islam not meaning peace. And that is not a koran concept.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #21 - November 07, 2008, 10:25 PM

    Baal, the main purpose of my article was intended for the Western Kafir who seem not to know about Islam. Regarding Islam means Peace, we have been told that that is what Islam means, where have you been?

    "Islam means peace
    Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

    Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.
    http://articlesonislam.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/islam-means-peace/      "


    "Islam means peace"

    The Milli Gazette

    9 December 2006

    New Delhi: Islam means Peace, authored by well-known scholar Dr. Javed Jamil, was released by Priyaranjan Dasmunshi, Union minister of information, broadcasting & parliamentary affairs in a ceremony held at Delhi’s India Islamic Cultural Centre on 5 December. Speaking on the occasion, Mr. Munsi praised the book as a work of huge relevance in the current world plagued by terrorism. He stressed the need of unity between all religious communities for the betterment of Mankind. He hoped that the book will go a long way in forging the alliance between different sections of society and will help the world in better understanding Islam. He said that he was convinced that Islam stood for peace, and it was important for all of us to understand how Islam inculcates peace in the world.

    In his keynote address, Saiyid Hamid, Chancellor of Hamdard University described Islam means peace as a "magnum opus, which is well argued as it is well-researched." He admired the approach of the author, saying that" although in all probability the idea of the book came from the barrage of attacks on Islam under a global conspiracy, the author is neither defensive, nor apologetic nor diffident."
    http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/2006/200612105_Islam_means_peace.htm

    Muslim message of love for all, hatred for none
    http://www.the-latest.com/love-for-all-hatred-for-none

    That is what we get here in Europe. I do not know what your media produces where you live.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #22 - November 07, 2008, 10:42 PM

    Technically Islam does mean pace. I still don't see your argument. Its comes form the root word Salaam, which means peace.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #23 - November 07, 2008, 10:44 PM

    From an Islamic Source:

    Quote
    Misconception 1

        Islam is `the religion of peace' because:

              - the Arabic word Islam is derived from the Arabic word "Al-Salaam" which means peace.

    It might seem strange to think of this as a misconception, but in fact it is. The root word of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." In spite of whatever noble intention has caused many a Muslim to claim that Islam is derived primarily from peace, this is not true. Allah says in the Qur'an (translated):

        [2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered. [Arabic "Muslimoon"]

    A secondary root of Islam may be "Al-Salaam" (peace), however the text of the Qur'an makes it clear that Allah has clearly intended the focus of this way of life to be submission to Him. This entails submission to Him at all times, in times of peace, war, ease, or difficulty.


    Source: USC

    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #24 - November 08, 2008, 01:37 AM

    Gonzo, then why are so many Muslims posting on the Web that Islam means Peace?
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #25 - November 08, 2008, 04:06 AM

    It's very simple, Elle. They either want to believe it themselves or they want other people to believe it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #26 - November 08, 2008, 04:34 AM

    Gonzo, then why are so many Muslims posting on the Web that Islam means Peace?


    Do you want to link us to a few, so we can at least take an educated guess why they say that? 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #27 - November 08, 2008, 08:40 AM

    It's very simple, Elle. They either want to believe it themselves or they want other people to believe it.


    No, mostly it's because they actually believe that.  This is what they are taught it means.

    Very few of them actually know that Islam means submission technically.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #28 - November 08, 2008, 10:07 AM

    It's very simple, Elle. They either want to believe it themselves or they want other people to believe it.


    Osmanthus, THAT IS PRECISELY WHY I HAVE SPENT SO MUCH TIME TO DISCUSS IT in my article. I personally  I believe that many Muslim do sincerely believe that the only meaning of Islam is peace derived from the root word of "salaam." And they are telling what they believe is the correct definition of Islam that it means Peace. Some of you understand this point of confusion or ambiguity!
  • Re: QUR'ANIC AMBIGUITIES ANALYZED BY ELLE
     Reply #29 - November 08, 2008, 10:12 AM

    It's very simple, Elle. They either want to believe it themselves or they want other people to believe it.


    No, mostly it's because they actually believe that.  This is what they are taught it means.

    Very few of them actually know that Islam means submission technically.


    So BerberElla, you accept that there are many Muslims and non-Muslims who do not have a precise understanding of the Arabic roots of the word SLM and choose the interpretation that suits their conscience? Don't you think then that it was a topic worth the ink and space to clarify? I wrote about it because as long as I have been on the web, I constantly get told that mostly by Muslims that, "Islam means Peace." I felt I had to write about it for clarification.
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