Refuge For Ex-Muslims

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- elle
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Refuge For Ex-Muslims
OP - November 08, 2008, 09:40 AM

I my be ignorant about this but Is there a Refuge (Safe House) for ex-Muslims or those who want to get away from their orthodox Islamic families? If not, why is not one started by this Council of ex-Muslims. If everyone who supports this movement would contribute £1 or £10 a week it would support such a Refuge. What do you think?
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #1 - November 08, 2008, 10:16 AM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 09:40 AM
I my be ignorant about this but Is there a Refuge (Safe House) for ex-Muslims or those who want to get away from their orthodox Islamic families? If not, why is not one started by this Council of ex-Muslims. If everyone who supports this movement would contribute £1 or £10 a week it would support such a Refuge. What do you think?

Yeah right. At best you'd be looking at garage space:) Are you instigating the initiative? How much are you putting down?

Ha Ha.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #2 - November 08, 2008, 10:24 AM

If there are volunteers of the right calibre, to get such a project started, I believe that funds will not be a problem because it would be really a worthy project, especially a refuge for "Honour Killings."
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #3 - November 08, 2008, 10:26 AM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 10:24 AM
If there are volunteers of the right calibre, to get such a project started, I believe that funds will not be a problem because it would be really a worthy project, especially a refuge for "Honour Killings."

great! When do you start your campaign?

Ha Ha.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #4 - November 08, 2008, 10:38 AM

Jack, I believe that this could be a worthy project for the Council of Ex-Muslims. The first step is to get support from our Social Services. I am sure you will get a lot of advice, even participation from our Social Services.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #5 - November 08, 2008, 10:40 AM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 10:38 AM
Jack, I believe that this could be a worthy project for the Council of Ex-Muslims. The first step is to get support from our Social Services. I am sure you will get a lot of advice, even participation from our Social Services.

Doubt it. You could give it a try though. There are more pressing social concerns in this country though.

Ha Ha.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #6 - November 08, 2008, 10:42 AM

Jack, a British ex-Muslim is still a subject of the Crown and is eligible to State funding.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #7 - November 08, 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 10:42 AM
Jack, a British ex-Muslim is still a subject of the Crown and is eligible to State funding.

Sure, give it a go then. Good luck

Ha Ha.
- zomzom
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #8 - November 08, 2008, 11:09 AM

The government provides protection, a safe house would just become an open target for those who would want to attack ex Muslims, it would not be very safe to have a bunch of ex Muslims hanging around in the same spot for too long.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
- awais
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #9 - November 08, 2008, 01:14 PM

my thoughts exactly tut.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #10 - November 08, 2008, 02:09 PM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 09:40 AM
I my be ignorant about this but Is there a Refuge (Safe House) for ex-Muslims or those who want to get away from their orthodox Islamic families? If not, why is not one started by this Council of ex-Muslims. If everyone who supports this movement would contribute £1 or £10 a week it would support such a Refuge. What do you think?

It's a good idea in some respects but this sort of thing is done on a secular basis in the UK, via orgs like the Womens' Refuge movement. Setting up anything for any particular faith group using public money is always a dodgy move here. It increases the scapegoat effect.

However, if this council were to set up such facilities, it could be argued both ways:
On the one hand, mainstream muslim representational orgs might use it as an excuse to more firmly weld faith to 'culture' against ex-muslims and actually cause a closing of ranks and an increase in social isolation. In that case, you would help a few people but defeat the strategic object.
On the other hand, if the PR was handled properly, perhaps the mainstream orgs could be shamed/encouraged into setting up such a facility themselves. Obviously that's not going to happen IMO.
There would, more likely, be yet more calls for the legitimisation of Sharia law to 'settle' such 'disputes'. The problem for humanitarians is that those running the mainstr. orgs. need to foster social isolation amongst muslims in order to keep the faithful faithful.
It's a good idea to toss ideas back and forth on the forum though and if something grows legs, get a committee to hammer out something solid. A thing that one must not do is bolt over a cliff edge.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #11 - November 08, 2008, 02:57 PM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 10:24 AM
If there are volunteers of the right calibre, to get such a project started, I believe that funds will not be a problem because it would be really a worthy project, especially a refuge for "Honour Killings."

I would be happy to help out once some ideas were established.

I do know that when we first aligned ourseleves with the council of ex muslims one of my main questions I asked of Maryam Namazie were what were the palns to provide safe houses for ex muslims feeling violence.

I did not to my knowledge recieve a reply.

I think this is a very important thing that needs to available.

Often without violence refuges won't step in and help, also men have limited help, there needs to be something out there that can help people escape just based on the knowledge that this person is an ex muslim and the threat of what could happen should be enough to recieve that help.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #12 - November 08, 2008, 02:58 PM

We have a donate button on the left hand side of the screen (with a cute kitten in a bowl). The more funds the council can generate the more they can put certain plans into action.

Sadly not many, if any at all, donations come in via that button, which is a damn shame.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #13 - November 08, 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on November 08, 2008, 02:57 PM
Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 10:24 AM
If there are volunteers of the right calibre, to get such a project started, I believe that funds will not be a problem because it would be really a worthy project, especially a refuge for "Honour Killings."

I would be happy to help out once some ideas were established.

I do know that when we first aligned ourseleves with the council of ex muslims one of my main questions I asked of Maryam Namazie were what were the palns to provide safe houses for ex muslims feeling violence.

I did not to my knowledge recieve a reply.

I think this is a very important thing that needs to available.

Often without violence refuges won't step in and help, also men have limited help, there needs to be something out there that can help people escape just based on the knowledge that this person is an ex muslim and the threat of what could happen should be enough to recieve that help.

BerberElla, we should keep this concept on the front burner and hope someone will listen and start something. It is obviously badly needed. The Council of ex_Muslims should be a prime mover for such a project.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #14 - November 09, 2008, 02:10 AM

It's an okay idea, except for the fact that all my money belongs to my Muslim parents, and are my course fees for studying abroad.

I think I'd rather finish my course, become independent then think about 'helping' once I'm established and earning a steady income.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #15 - November 09, 2008, 10:22 AM

Although money is necessary, that is not the most crucial thing, it is the support of the concept that is the most important thing. BerberElla is prepared to help. If I can contribute in any way, my time or ideas, I too am available. I am a pensioner but I have ideas and I have had a lot of experience in life. I am sure that Heartbomb too would help in a physical way if he/she could.

Yes, it could be even an organisation within the Social Services remit, why not? But I believe that Muslims need special understanding of the cultural problems within their society, and that is why specialists are needed.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #16 - November 09, 2008, 10:26 AM

Quote from: elle on November 09, 2008, 10:22 AM
Although money is necessary, that is not the most crucial thing, it is the support of the concept that is the most important thing. BerberElla is prepared to help. If I can contribute in any way, my time or ideas, I too am available. I am a pensioner but I have ideas and I have had a lot of experience in life. I am sure that Heartbomb too would help in a physical way if he/she could.

Yes, it could be even an organisation within the Social Services remit, why not? But I believe that Muslims need special understanding of the cultural problems within their society, and that is why specialists are needed.

Do you own your own house? Why not bequeath it to CEM (or me, I'll make sure it gets to them ) It's avery direct way of helping, witout all the b/s.

Ha Ha.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #17 - November 09, 2008, 10:37 AM

Every person has a right to decide what he does with his valuables. I may feel that my children deserve it more as they have looked after me all my life and they are struggling, or I may decide that Cancer research or neuro-research is more important because one of my loved ones died from such a malady? Or I may decide I have nothing to bequeath to anyone because I have nothing to give, but that does not make me a lesser person? So let us not make materialism a criteria of belief or loyalty.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #18 - November 09, 2008, 10:40 AM

Quote from: elle on November 09, 2008, 10:37 AM
Every person has a right to decide what he does with his valuables. I may feel that my children deserve it more as they have looked after me all my life and they are struggling, or I may decide that Cancer research or neuro-research is more important because one of my loved ones died from such a malady? Or I may decide I have nothing to bequeath to anyone because I have nothing to give, but that does not make me a lesser person? So let us not make materialism a criteria of belief or loyalty.

Who said anything about a lesser person? It's a good idea - money where your mouth is. There's an awful lot of do-gooders who don't do anything other than post on forums about what others should do - this is your big chance!!

Ha Ha.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #19 - November 09, 2008, 12:32 PM

Quote from: elle on November 09, 2008, 10:22 AM
Although money is necessary, that is not the most crucial thing, it is the support of the concept that is the most important thing. BerberElla is prepared to help. If I can contribute in any way, my time or ideas, I too am available. I am a pensioner but I have ideas and I have had a lot of experience in life. I am sure that Heartbomb too would help in a physical way if he/she could.

Yes, it could be even an organisation within the Social Services remit, why not? But I believe that Muslims need special understanding of the cultural problems within their society, and that is why specialists are needed.

Money isn't the most crucial thing? You need money to support people if you are going to set up a refuge.

I would volunteer to help give moral support but that I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to give. It's financing these individuals that run away from their homes, etc, that would prove difficult.
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #20 - November 09, 2008, 01:10 PM

Heartbomb's right. First and foremost, it's in the planning. Where is there most need - which region- which city (village)? Who pays the rent? Who provides the means of subsistence? where are the jobs? Who organises and provides an appropriate level of security?
If there are people who value their so called honour over the lives of their children we're talking serious dementia here.
But I agree that it needs tackling at both the macro and the micro levels. The micro level is the above; the macro is the changing of attitudes within the wider target community. Then you need to decide whether you're going to concentrate your efforts on a top-down or bottom-up approach. You need consistent organisational policies so that everyone's rowing in the same direction.
Which cultural entities would you decide to target, Elle, and how?

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #21 - November 09, 2008, 01:54 PM

The council of ex muslims of britain would mean that Britain would be our aim to set up one. As to what region, well when i went into a refuge the further away you go the better, you don't get plenty of choice after all. It's about getting safe.

So starting off with one at the least, wherever in England to start off with would help. Anyone in need could travel.

Private donations would not be enough to keep such an endeavour going, we would need proper money because running a refuge, providing staff etc etc is not going to be cheap at all.

I think the council needs to focus on working with womens aid and refuge and the local government to create such a safe haven. That would help with the funding alot, no?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #22 - November 09, 2008, 03:21 PM

Yes. I'm all for the secular controlled approach to refuge provision, personally, with advice from organisations like this, rather than from the self-appointed 'muslim' representational groups.
Castigation could take the 'violation of universal human rights' approach and also be handled by organisations like this one. The more you can influence the next generation to become more cosmopolitan, the better.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #23 - November 09, 2008, 10:40 PM

Surely a Safe House need not be a Castle with a moat around it with guards and machine guns? A hideaway need not be very costly. It allows time for others to organise a safe escape route to another country or another location. I am thinking like the safe houses during WW II, a temporary shelter until other arrangements can be made.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #24 - November 09, 2008, 11:04 PM

Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 09:40 AM
I my be ignorant about this but Is there a Refuge (Safe House) for ex-Muslims or those who want to get away from their orthodox Islamic families? If not, why is not one started by this Council of ex-Muslims. If everyone who supports this movement would contribute £1 or £10 a week it would support such a Refuge. What do you think?

I believe Maryam and the Council will help - and have already helped - people in such cases, and they are in touch with women's refuges.
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #25 - November 10, 2008, 01:02 AM

Yes, that's correct.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #26 - November 10, 2008, 12:36 PM

Good, then Maryam, whoever she is needs to expand this work.

Can't the URL of Maryam's organisation be post here for anyone needing it?
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #27 - November 10, 2008, 12:50 PM

Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 12:36 PM
Good, then Maryam, whoever she is needs to expand this work.

Can't the URL of Maryam's organisation be post here for anyone needing it?

Maryam's organization is "The Council of Ex-Muslims"

They have a good forum, here:

www.councilofexmuslim.com
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #28 - November 10, 2008, 03:20 PM

Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 12:36 PM
Good, then Maryam, whoever she is needs to expand this work.

yes sir! Perhaps you could give us all tasks to be getting on with?

Ha Ha.
- elle
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Re: Refuge For Ex-Muslims
Reply #29 - November 10, 2008, 05:53 PM

JackTorrance, Yes I can. someone on 08.11.08 at 12:31 am has called out for help. Who is following it up? and why not?
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