Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!

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- Calm
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #30 - December 04, 2008, 03:36 PM

I don't say everyone is US army is terrorist. I don't have any problem with individual soldiers. They might have joined army with the motive to protect their country. Infact I know one.

But, according to me, Iraq invasion was totally unjustified. Regarding Afghanistan, in past few months, attakcs have harmed a lot of civilians.
For those people, the particular action of US is definitely terrorism.

Quote from: sparky on December 04, 2008, 03:14 PM
Quote from: awais on December 04, 2008, 03:04 PM
I doubt he ever was a terrorist.

You don't think inspiring christian soldiers to march to war against 'evil' isn't dangerous, being how entrenched it (evangelicalism) is in the US Army?

Oh, please!! Wild and wacky he may be but frankly comparing the actions of the US Army to terrorism is pretty wild and wacky in my book. (In fact its the 'being an evangelical, which inspires Christian soldiers, which is the US Army, which does evil things - is the same as being a terrorist).

Good grief.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #31 - December 04, 2008, 04:15 PM

Quote from: TomTom on December 04, 2008, 01:37 PM
Hassan, we need an open debate! As long as Walid Shoebat does not start waving an AK47 again, maybe the best thing he did was join another loony club.

Nothing much to debate there, TomTom - I completely agree with you.

The point I was making in my OP was that there maybe a few Muslims who were terrorists and then leave Islam but most ex-Muslims were never terrorists - just ordinary - and usually very moderate - Muslims.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #32 - December 04, 2008, 04:24 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 04, 2008, 04:15 PM
Quote from: TomTom on December 04, 2008, 01:37 PM
Hassan, we need an open debate! As long as Walid Shoebat does not start waving an AK47 again, maybe the best thing he did was join another loony club.

Nothing much to debate there, TomTom - I completely agree with you.

The point I was making in my OP was that there maybe a few Muslims who were terrorists and then leave Islam but most ex-Muslims were never terrorists - just ordinary - and usually very moderate - Muslims.

It would be good if the non-terrorist ex-muslims started to post videos explaining themselves, this way they could occupy the airtime to compete with Walid and his friends.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #33 - December 04, 2008, 04:26 PM

Yes, at the moment there is one....
our very own Hassan
Rest of here do have their blogs.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #34 - December 04, 2008, 04:28 PM

Quote from: learn2bcalm
But, according to me, Iraq invasion was totally unjustified. Regarding Afghanistan, in past few months, attakcs have harmed a lot of civilians.
For those people, the particular action of US is definitely terrorism.

1. The Iraq invasion had reasons. They may have turned out to be incorrect but there was never an intent to 'terrorise' the ordinary people of Iraq.

2. Even among those civilians who are harmed, the US attacks are not terrorism. They are not targetted (unlike what was done in Mumbai) and the aim is not to create 'terror' among them (unlike in Mumbai). Why do you let yourself get carried away with such rhetoric?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #35 - December 04, 2008, 04:29 PM

I think you're naive sparky.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #36 - December 04, 2008, 04:31 PM

Quote from: awais
I dunno, who is Bush? What motivates so many to join so they can go fight the moozlums, it's "what this country was founded on".

They don't just go to fight muslims do they. They fight whoever threatens their country. Not so long ago the enemy was 'atheists' in the USSR and in Bosnia they fought for muslims against 'Christians'.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #37 - December 04, 2008, 04:31 PM

Quote from: awais on December 04, 2008, 04:29 PM
I think you're naive sparky.

Sure. But do you have any reasons for thinking that?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #38 - December 04, 2008, 04:32 PM

Could you please specify what were the reasons behind Iraq invasions? 'WMDs which were never there?' A normal Iraqi was more happy under Saddam Hussein rather than it is currently.

If a plane comes and destroy your home and your loved ones (God forbid, hope nothing like that ever happens to u) at time of your wedding, then will you be able ot say that 'Motive of this attack is not terror, it has reasons behind it' ?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #39 - December 04, 2008, 04:34 PM

Quote from: sparky on December 04, 2008, 04:31 PM
Quote from: awais on December 04, 2008, 04:29 PM
I think you're naive sparky.

Sure. But do you have any reasons for thinking that?

Quote from: sparky on December 04, 2008, 04:28 PM
1. The Iraq invasion had reasons. They may have turned out to be incorrect but there was never an intent to 'terrorise' the ordinary people of Iraq.

2. Even among those civilians who are harmed, the US attacks are not terrorism. They are not targetted (unlike what was done in Mumbai) and the aim is not to create 'terror' among them (unlike in Mumbai). Why do you let yourself get carried away with such rhetoric?

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #40 - December 04, 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote from: learn2bcalm on December 04, 2008, 04:26 PM
Yes, at the moment there is one....
our very own Hassan
Rest of here do have their blogs.

Can you send links to video or blogs?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #41 - December 04, 2008, 04:36 PM

Again, Sparky I am not saying Christians are terrorist or so. Many Catholics opposed Iraq war. However, there are many Fundie in US who thinks Islam is satanist and it is for 'God' that US invaded Iraq.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #42 - December 04, 2008, 04:43 PM

Quote from: learn2bcalm on December 04, 2008, 04:32 PM
Could you please specify what were the reasons behind Iraq invasions? 'WMDs which were never there?' A normal Iraqi was more happy under Saddam Hussein rather than it is currently.

If a plane comes and destroy your home and your loved ones (God forbid, hope nothing like that ever happens to u) at time of your wedding, then will you be able ot say that 'Motive of this attack is not terror, it has reasons behind it' ?

1. At the time, belief in the existence of WMDs was widespread. Like I said, it may have turned out to be incorrect but it was a reason at the time.

2. Which 'normal Iraqis' were you referring to? The 100,000 Shia's killed in the uprising after the first gulf war? The Kurds? The Kuwaitis? The Iranians? The children that were starving under the sanctions?

And about the plane, yes. Actually, I was in Afghanistan recently. Many Afghans have memories of the Mujahadeen killing each other around Kabul and the civilians that were killed at the time, or the carpet bombing of villages by the Russians, or the persecution of Hazaras by the Taleban. The level of precision targetting by the Americans and the fact that Afghans have been able to choose their own leaders, actually does make a difference in how they interpret civilian casualties and they do know the difference between terrorism and war.

This isn't to say that civilian casualties don't matter there or that such events are not played up by the Taleban PR machine but that the idea that what NATO is doing in Afghanistan is comparable to the acts of Islamic terrorism is for more thought outside of Afghanistan than in it.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #43 - December 04, 2008, 04:48 PM

Quote from: sparky on December 04, 2008, 04:43 PM
1. At the time, belief in the existence of WMDs was widespread. Like I said, it may have turned out to be incorrect but it was a reason at the time.

Just because people were fooled into believing it (by Bush and friends) didn't justify it.

Quote from: sparky on December 04, 2008, 04:43 PM
2. Which 'normal Iraqis' were you referring to? The 100,000 Shia's killed in the uprising after the first gulf war? The Kurds? The Kuwaitis? The Iranians? The children that were starving under the sanctions?

No, the civilians who didn't kill anybody .

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #44 - December 04, 2008, 04:49 PM

Quote from: learn2bcalm on December 04, 2008, 04:36 PM
Again, Sparky I am not saying Christians are terrorist or so. Many Catholics opposed Iraq war. However, there are many Fundie in US who thinks Islam is satanist and it is for 'God' that US invaded Iraq.

Of course there are (although I don't know how 'many' is 'many'). But that doesn't mean that it actually is the reason that the US invaded Iraq or the reason that soldiers go there to fight. Nor does it mean that this is the widespread view within US evangelicalism or that Walid Shoebat is 'encouraging' this.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #45 - December 04, 2008, 04:54 PM

Quote from: awais
Just because people were fooled into believing it (by Bush and friends) didn't justify it.

The view of 'Bush and friends' was quite widespread among world leaders at the time. I didn't say it justified it but that understanding combined with Saddam's history of aggression and the ineffectiveness of sanctions means that the decision to invade is nothing like comparable to what is done by terrorists.

Quote from: awais
Quote from: sparky
2. Which 'normal Iraqis' were you referring to? The 100,000 Shia's killed in the uprising after the first gulf war? The Kurds? The Kuwaitis? The Iranians? The children that were starving under the sanctions?

No, the civilians who didn't kill anybody .

These groups largely were civilians and I don't think that they would agree with your assessment of Iraq under Saddam.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #46 - December 04, 2008, 05:00 PM

Hi Sparky,

1. I so, you think it is justify to invade a country because of 'BELIEF' ? September 11 Commission reported no collaborative relationship between Al Qaeda and the Iraqi leadership. Iraq Survey Group's interim reported no evidence of WMDs before invasion.

2. I don't say Saddam was a hero. He was infact a cruel man. But, I can have n number of issues in my country. I would really not like a Super power to come and invade my country. When you have time, this is a video Talk to Iraqi,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GPEX0PnV-LU
watch it.

Iraq war was a big mistake. And US helped? Iraq out of its own interests. Why don't US go and help Srilanka right now, it is really a troubled country at this moment. But, US will not gain anything by helping it.

3. And it has so wrongly affected War on terror. Now an ordinary Muslim think that war of west in on Islam and Muslims rather than terrorism which is sad.

The post war steps were extremely poor. It is 5 years now.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #47 - December 04, 2008, 05:05 PM

Quote from: awais on December 04, 2008, 10:22 AM
Quote from: brucepig on December 04, 2008, 08:33 AM
After seeing that I think the man is a lunatic. He has swapped one form of craziness for another.

Yup.

The point is he is still a fundamentalist so what ever he says should be taken with a sack of salt.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #48 - December 04, 2008, 05:07 PM

Quote from: brucepig on December 04, 2008, 05:05 PM
Quote from: awais on December 04, 2008, 10:22 AM
Quote from: brucepig on December 04, 2008, 08:33 AM
After seeing that I think the man is a lunatic. He has swapped one form of craziness for another.

Yup.

The point is he is still a fundamentalist so what ever he says should be taken with a sack of salt.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #49 - December 04, 2008, 05:08 PM

At no point did I say that the invasion was 'right' or 'justified'. Just that it was nothing like the actions of terrorists as it has been compared on this thread.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #50 - December 04, 2008, 05:11 PM

Well, different ppl have different definition of terrorism. An unjustified war is indeed act of terrorism of innocent civilians of attacked nations.
Again, I don't say it was linked with Christianity.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Terrorist Speaks Out!
Reply #51 - December 11, 2008, 11:04 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 24, 2008, 06:00 PM
Just been browsing some youtube videos and I really hate all the "Ex-Muslim/Terrorist/Jihadi speaks out... finds Christ... blah blah..."

One of the most ignorant and bigoted perception of Muslims is that they are all terrorists.

The far-right/Neocon/Christian fundie interest in Ex-Muslims is simply so they can confirm their prejudices and promote their own agenda. (They actually don't give a shit about real Ex-Muslims themselves - unless they conform to this stereotype)

A "Good" ex-Muslim is one who confess all his past sins spills the beans on how Islam is a Terrorist religion and Muslims are all so barbaric.

I disagree that, even then, they would think of them as being "good".

To them there is no such thing as a good ex-muslim, unless he was 100% white; changed his name to a Christian name; moved to a place where no one knew his past; and did everything a typical white guy does.

There are MANY non-whites in USA, who are Christian. Do the whites think of them as good?
They still hate them.
To them, no non-white could ever be a Christian; or a decent human being.
Those who have become Christian, are really trying to decieve them.
Obama is a prime example.

Of course this doesn't apply to all whites, but it does apply to enough of them, to cause the conflicts.

Aparently, 9/11 changed everything.
Can someone explain to me how building 7 collapsed in it's own footprint?

If you left Islam using logic, you can apply same logic to 9/11 and come to the same conclusion I have.
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