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 Topic: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?

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  • What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     OP - November 28, 2008, 02:11 PM
    Just wondering what it is.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #1 - November 28, 2008, 02:38 PM
    I think Islam does not have a minimum age for female for getting married. Sexual intimacy is allowed if there is no penetration. On the other hand, I have heared ppl saying that Islam does not accept forced marriages. But, then a small child can not give consent, right? So, I am confused.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #2 - November 28, 2008, 03:27 PM
    The fundies and traditionalists say it's the onset of puberty, so it could be anywhere from 9 years old to 15.  Then again, those who suffer from precocious puberty can start at as young as 2 to 3 years old.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #3 - November 28, 2008, 03:46 PM
    That's interesting. Taking into account only normal puberty how is a 9 year old able to give consent?  IMO a 15 year old is not old enough to give consent either. I did a quick google and it seems the Quran does not indicate an age and only has a very vague verse about it.

    Precocious puberty throws this whole thing out of the window though.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #4 - November 28, 2008, 04:01 PM
    There's a hadith that says a virgin (young) girl's silence is her consent. She's to shy too say yes, not put off enough to say no. Roll Eyes
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #5 - November 28, 2008, 04:05 PM
    How can you have a hypothetical age limit, on when a woman reaches womanhood? In Islam, when a woman reaches her menses she is considered a woman, like in most tribal customs, and it makes sense too.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #6 - November 28, 2008, 04:09 PM
    KT,
    It made sense that time. Most of the ancient literature will support that. Issue begins when some strange ppl in todays time support this by quoting scripture.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #7 - November 28, 2008, 04:55 PM
    Quote from: awais on November 28, 2008, 04:01 PM
    There's a hadith that says a virgin (young) girl's silence is her consent. She's to shy too say yes, not put off enough to say no. Roll Eyes

    That's disgusting.

    Have you got a link for that btw?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #8 - November 28, 2008, 05:34 PM
    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #9 - November 28, 2008, 05:46 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on November 28, 2008, 05:34 PM
    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html

    That is ridiculous. A 'virgin'? Babies are virgins, 5 year olds are virgins, what is that supposed to mean? An older girl can say no because she knows what is going on but what about everyone else?
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #10 - November 28, 2008, 06:12 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on November 28, 2008, 03:46 PM
    That's interesting. Taking into account only normal puberty how is a 9 year old able to give consent?  IMO a 15 year old is not old enough to give consent either. I did a quick google and it seems the Quran does not indicate an age and only has a very vague verse about it.

    Precocious puberty throws this whole thing out of the window though.

    Which vague verse? Wish Sanitarium was around, she specialized in the marriage verses and I am at work without my tools.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #11 - November 28, 2008, 06:14 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 04:05 PM
    How can you have a hypothetical age limit, on when a woman reaches womanhood? In Islam, when a woman reaches her menses she is considered a woman, like in most tribal customs, and it makes sense too.

    A woman is not just some skin and meat around a vagina moron.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #12 - November 28, 2008, 07:30 PM
    Quote from: Baal on November 28, 2008, 06:14 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 04:05 PM
    How can you have a hypothetical age limit, on when a woman reaches womanhood? In Islam, when a woman reaches her menses she is considered a woman, like in most tribal customs, and it makes sense too.

    A woman is not just some skin and meat around a vagina moron.



    How does women reaching meses, mean I think women are just to fuck?
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #13 - November 28, 2008, 09:06 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 07:30 PM
    Quote from: Baal on November 28, 2008, 06:14 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 04:05 PM
    How can you have a hypothetical age limit, on when a woman reaches womanhood? In Islam, when a woman reaches her menses she is considered a woman, like in most tribal customs, and it makes sense too.

    A woman is not just some skin and meat around a vagina moron.



    How does women reaching meses, mean I think women are just to fuck?

    Good one there Tut reminding me what is important in islam. So when a vagina is mature enough, then the rest of the skin and bone around it is now good to go.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #14 - November 28, 2008, 09:15 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 04:05 PM
    How can you have a hypothetical age limit, on when a woman reaches womanhood? In Islam, when a woman reaches her menses she is considered a woman, like in most tribal customs, and it makes sense too.

    It most certainly does not make sense. What about fistula? what about lost life opportunities? What about being mature enough and educated anough to rear children without a high mortality rate?
    And , unlike what you've suggested, tribal customs suck: they're based upon ignorance and lack of proper knowledge. Watching the way that tribals live is like watching goldfish.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #15 - November 28, 2008, 10:55 PM
    So we should impose our own morality onto others? na I don't think so.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #16 - November 29, 2008, 01:26 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 10:55 PM
    So we should impose our own morality onto others? na I don't think so.


    Better to impose rational morality than irrational immorality.

    Like already mentioned in the thread, there are some girls who have 'abnormal' menses at infancy. Does that mean that a 2 year old is a woman? I don't think so. Her organs are not developed for her to have sexual intercourse, nor an infant's mind developed enough to make such a decision.

    That hadith mentioning the silence of women indicating consent is just....urgh I don't have words for it. Of course they would be silent, they fear being frowned upon for their disconsent.

    Tribal customs are backwards. Female genital mutiliation is a tribal custom, doesn't make it right. Cannibalism is a tribal custom, doesn't make it right. Many fucked up things happen in tribes, does not make them right.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #17 - November 29, 2008, 11:49 AM
    Quote from: Baal on November 28, 2008, 06:12 PM
    Which vague verse? Wish Sanitarium was around, she specialized in the marriage verses and I am at work without my tools.

    There's a verse that kind of indicates there is an age before women are allowed to get married -

    And try orphans (as regards their intelligence) until they reach the age of marriage; if then you find sound judgement in them, release their property to them, but consume it not wastefully, and hastily fearing that they should grow up, and whoever amongst guardians is rich, he should take no wages, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable (according to his work). And when you release their property to them, take witness in their presence; and Allah is All Sufficient in taking account. S. 4:6 Hilali-Khan

    But according to some scholars the actual translation is age of puberty so this verse is probably irrelevant.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #18 - December 01, 2008, 06:54 PM
    How does all that square with the Aiesha playing with dolls bit?  (People past puberty are not allowed to play with dolls, and she was playing with dolls when living with the Prophet).  I've seen that challenge raised, but never really addressed.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #19 - December 01, 2008, 07:02 PM
    Quote from: Variable on December 01, 2008, 06:54 PM
    How does all that square with the Aiesha playing with dolls bit?  (People past puberty are not allowed to play with dolls, and she was playing with dolls when living with the Prophet).  I've seen that challenge raised, but never really addressed.


    You can marry a girl who hasn't had her period yet, you can marry a baby off, you would keep her with you, and at a certain age send her to live with the grooms family.

    I have even read it advised the sending her to live there younger means she will be used to it and settle in better  Roll Eyes.  Sex is a dodgy issue, modern muslims obviously adhere to the menses issue, and say without it there can be no sex, citing that girls hit puberty younger back then >> Not true though <<. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #20 - December 02, 2008, 11:33 AM
    No age limit is specified in Islam for marriage. We know Muhammad married Aisha at 6. Umar married the five year old, Umme Kulthum.

    No mention is made of reaching menses.

    The Qur'an actually sanctions divorce of a wife who has not yet reached puberty.

    65:4 4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses {wives not yet reached puberty} it is the same.

    This verse endorses paedophilia by specifying a waiting period of three months after divorcing a female who has not yet commenced menstruation. Therefore not only could you marry a child, but you could also divorce her before puberty.

    Of course such marriages were not for some kind of convenience like getting a green card. They were so old sick men could pursue their perverted desires to play, fondle and have sex with little girls.

    SB 38:504 - Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: I was accompanying the Prophet on a journey and was riding a slow camel that was lagging behind the others. When we approached Medina, I started going towards my house. The Prophet said, "Where are you going?" I said, "I have married a widow." He said, "Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?"

    Such marriages occur regularly in Islamic countries only because solid justification in scripture and from the life of Muhammad and his companions supports it.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #21 - December 02, 2008, 12:09 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on December 02, 2008, 11:33 AM
    Hadith: The Prophet said, "Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?"


    I don't think this counts. But otherwise, good post.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #22 - December 02, 2008, 12:33 PM
    Quote from: awais on December 02, 2008, 12:09 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on December 02, 2008, 11:33 AM
    Hadith: The Prophet said, "Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?"


    I don't think this counts. But otherwise, good post.


    Well you can fondle with a non-virgin. Therefore I take this to mean a very young girl not yet ready for sex who you can play around with until you think she is ready.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #23 - December 02, 2008, 05:03 PM
    I wonder what the commentary on Bukhari says of this.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #24 - December 02, 2008, 06:53 PM
    If i remember correctly the hadith did not say "Married a widow", I think 'matron' or a 'non-virgin' was the more sensible answer. Perhaps a divorcee or a whore or a shared slave.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #25 - December 02, 2008, 10:55 PM
    There is no age of consent in Islam.

    Some scholars say that you can only marry a girl once she's reached puberty.  I would like to ask these scholars... where does it say this??  The answer is, NOWHERE.

    Muhammad married Aisha before she reached puberty, and as a.ghazali mentioned verse 65:04 in the Quran talks about divorcing those of your wives who have not reached puberty yet.

    I have read and listened to the translation of verse 65:04 in urdu too and it's definitely talking about the wives who have not reached puberty yet (ie the prepubescent wives).


    Quote from: a.ghazali on December 02, 2008, 11:33 AM
    No age limit is specified in Islam for marriage. We know Muhammad married Aisha at 6. Umar married the five year old, Umme Kulthum.

    Where does it say that Umar married a 5 year old child?  I've heard about this before but I just want to know where it's written.
    .
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #26 - December 03, 2008, 07:28 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on December 02, 2008, 10:55 PM
    Where does it say that Umar married a 5 year old child?  I've heard about this before but I just want to know where it's written.


    This story obviously has its deniers or those who recognise it as truth. Much of the information on this is from secondary Islamic tradtions written by various scholars.

    Actually Wikipedia has a balanced article on the marriage. The marriage took place in 17AH. Umm Kulthum was born in 12AH.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar's_marriage_to_Umm_Kulthum
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #27 - December 03, 2008, 11:14 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on November 29, 2008, 11:49 AM
    Quote from: Baal on November 28, 2008, 06:12 PM
    Which vague verse? Wish Sanitarium was around, she specialized in the marriage verses and I am at work without my tools.

    There's a verse that kind of indicates there is an age before women are allowed to get married -

    And try orphans (as regards their intelligence) until they reach the age of marriage; if then you find sound judgement in them, release their property to them, but consume it not wastefully, and hastily fearing that they should grow up, and whoever amongst guardians is rich, he should take no wages, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable (according to his work). And when you release their property to them, take witness in their presence; and Allah is All Sufficient in taking account. S. 4:6 Hilali-Khan

    But according to some scholars the actual translation is age of puberty so this verse is probably irrelevant.

    Hello Peruvian, this is actually a serious mistranslation.

    In English, it seems that we wait until a person is intelligent enough, regardless of their body.

    But in arabic, this verse indicates that a person can be married once their body is ready, regardless of the state of their mind.


    Here is a word for word translation. Up to you to extract the meaning:

    "And test the orphans, until they reach the Nikah, so if you detect from them maturity, then push back to them their money and do not eat it (the money) superfluously and wastefully..."

    Nikah used to mean intercourse but since it was used in the koran, the scholars decided to change the meaning to 'legal intercourse'. It is the direct opposite of Zina.

    My interpretation is that you get to monitor orphans until they marry with noo mention of an Age of Marriage. And that if they marry AND reach mental maturity then return their money to them.

    Even if you choose to see an age of marriage in that verse, you still have to deal with the fact that the marriage does happen before mental maturity.

    Cha-Ching?
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #28 - December 12, 2008, 11:09 AM
    Quote from: Baal on December 03, 2008, 11:14 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on November 29, 2008, 11:49 AM
    Quote from: Baal on November 28, 2008, 06:12 PM
    Which vague verse? Wish Sanitarium was around, she specialized in the marriage verses and I am at work without my tools.

    There's a verse that kind of indicates there is an age before women are allowed to get married -

    And try orphans (as regards their intelligence) until they reach the age of marriage; if then you find sound judgement in them, release their property to them, but consume it not wastefully, and hastily fearing that they should grow up, and whoever amongst guardians is rich, he should take no wages, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable (according to his work). And when you release their property to them, take witness in their presence; and Allah is All Sufficient in taking account. S. 4:6 Hilali-Khan

    But according to some scholars the actual translation is age of puberty so this verse is probably irrelevant.

    Hello Peruvian, this is actually a serious mistranslation.

    In English, it seems that we wait until a person is intelligent enough, regardless of their body.

    But in arabic, this verse indicates that a person can be married once their body is ready, regardless of the state of their mind.


    Here is a word for word translation. Up to you to extract the meaning:

    "And test the orphans, until they reach the Nikah, so if you detect from them maturity, then push back to them their money and do not eat it (the money) superfluously and wastefully..."

    Nikah used to mean intercourse but since it was used in the koran, the scholars decided to change the meaning to 'legal intercourse'. It is the direct opposite of Zina.

    My interpretation is that you get to monitor orphans until they marry with noo mention of an Age of Marriage. And that if they marry AND reach mental maturity then return their money to them.

    Even if you choose to see an age of marriage in that verse, you still have to deal with the fact that the marriage does happen before mental maturity.

    Cha-Ching?

    I know it does, it's make me sick to think that a religion would promote such a thing. Even worse are the deniers...
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • What's the female minimum age for marriage according to Islam?
     Reply #29 - May 13, 2014, 04:20 PM
    I learned something new today that had been kept a secret. Umar ibn Al Khattab married a woman that was either 8 or 5 depending on which Umm Kulthum you think it was. But what'd you expect, when his role model married a 6 year old.

    Fuck cultural relativism. A girl isn't a "woman" or an adult just because she menstruates, and that is based or actual biology and psychology. Impregnate a 8 year old who had her first menses and she will most probably die without the most up to date medical care. And even then, she might suffer from complications and die in childbirth despite all efforts to help her.

    The thing with "forced marriage" is that Islamic definition of it isn't the same as we think. From what I know, there's consensus on the issue that a father can marry off his daughter long before she reaches puberty (like Aishah). In theory, he could promise her off as an infant. As soon as the first signs of puberty are manifested, she becomes "fuckable", even if it means she is only 8-9 years old.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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