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 Topic: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam

 (Read 7757 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     OP - December 01, 2008, 11:52 AM

    Hi all,

    I've started reading a very interesting book over the weekend:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Idea-Women-Fundamentalist-Islam/dp/0813032113/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1228131418&sr=1-2

    So far I've read the first three chapters which deal with Hassan al-Banna, Abu 'Ala al-Maududi and Sayyed Qutb.  The interesting pattern I've noted so far is the that these individuals when implementing their plans for an 'Islamic society', no matter how progressive their thinking on modern society is and man's ability to use reason within it, they will consistantly leave women stuck in the dark ages.  Al-Banna's arguement for keeping women confined to the domestic sphere is due to her biology.  For Mawdudi it's the 'fact' that women become so crazed at the time of menses that they must be kept locked up and ignorant of the outside world at all times due specifically to that one week in the month when a women menstruates.  Sayyed Qutb (I'm still reading the chapter on him) goes along the same line of reasoning as well.  Reform and modernisation is all right for the menfolk but woe unto him who dares let his womenfolk step out of the cave of the 7th centry and enter the light of the 20th/21st century.

    Has anyone else in our little community here read this book?  What are your thoughts on it?

    Personally, I believe the reason behind men's (and specifically Muslim men's) attempts to keep women down is due to an inherant fear that if women were to actually take part more openly in politics and society in the Muslim world, they would actually do a better job at it than the men themselves!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #1 - December 01, 2008, 12:14 PM

    Interesting post Nour, thanks.  Afro I have found that even when Muslim men abandon almost every practice of Islam - they often still retain a very backward attitude towards women and women's role in society.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #2 - December 01, 2008, 12:55 PM

    Has anyone else in our little community here read this book?  What are your thoughts on it?

    Personally, I believe the reason behind men's (and specifically Muslim men's) attempts to keep women down is due to an inherant fear that if women were to actually take part more openly in politics and society in the Muslim world, they would actually do a better job at it than the men themselves!


    No I haven't had a chance to read it, but I'd like to. Must put it on my Santa list.

    The problem is that these teachings span all the way back to 7th century Arabia. And once formalised in the Qur'an and Hadiths there can be no going back for those who see this is the eternal word of God that cannot be changed.

    Al-Ghazali is recognised as the most influential Muslim thinker of all time and is described in the Encyclopaedia of Islam as 'The greatest theologian produced by Islam.'

    In his book 'The Revival of the Religious Sciences' Ghazali defines the role of a woman as follows:
    -   She should stay at home and get on with her spinning
    -   She can go out only in emergencies.
    -   She must not be well-informed nor must she be communicative with her neighbours and only visit them when absolutely necessary.
    -   She should take care of her husband and respect him in his presence and his absence and seek to satisfy him in everything.
    -   She must not leave her house without his permission and if given his permission she must leave secretly.
    -   She should put on old clothes and take deserted streets and alleys, avoid markets, and make sure that a stranger does not hear her voice, footsteps, smell her or recognize her.
    -   She must not speak to her husband's friend even in need.
    -   Her sole worry should be her "al bud" (reproductive organs), her home as well as her prayers and her fast.
    -   If a friend of her husband calls when her husband is absent she must not open the door nor reply to him in order to safeguard her "al bud".
    -   She should accept what her husband gives her as sufficient sexual needs at any moment.
    -   She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment.

    Al-Ghazali also states 'It is a fact that all the trials, misfortunes and woes which befall men come from women'. In his Book of Counsel for Kings, Ghazali sums up eighteen punishments that a woman has to endure resulting from the curse Eve received for eating from the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden:

    -   Menstruation; Childbirth; Pregnancy
    -   Separation from mother and father and marriage to a stranger;
    -   Not having control over her own person;
    -   Half the share in inheritance compared to male
    -   Her liability to be divorced and inability to divorce;
    -   It being lawful for men to have four wives, but for a woman to have only one husband;
    -   She must stay secluded in the house;
    -   She must keep her head covered inside the house;
    -   Two women's testimony equals the testimony of one man;
    -   She must not go out unless accompanied by a near relative;
    -   Men take part in Friday and feast day prayers and funerals while women do not;
    -   Disqualification from positions such as ruler and judge;
    -   Merit has one thousand components, only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are attributable to men;
    -   If women are profligate they will be given twice as much torment as the rest of the community on Resurrection Day;
    -   If their husbands die they must observe a waiting period of four months and ten days before remarrying;
    -   If their husbands divorce them they must observe a waiting period of three months or three menstruations before remarrying.

    So basically the plight of women based on Abrahamic scriptures stems back to poor old Eve being deceived by a talking snake.

    To think so many women have suffered so much throughout history because of this nonsensical myth is baffling and saddening.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #3 - December 01, 2008, 02:18 PM

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    Al-Ghazali also states 'It is a fact that all the trials, misfortunes and woes which befall men come from women'. In his Book of Counsel for Kings, Ghazali sums up eighteen punishments that a woman has to endure resulting from the curse Eve received for eating from the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden:

    -   Menstruation; Childbirth; Pregnancy
    -   Separation from mother and father and marriage to a stranger;
    -   Not having control over her own person;
    -   Half the share in inheritance compared to male
    -   Her liability to be divorced and inability to divorce;
    -   It being lawful for men to have four wives, but for a woman to have only one husband;
    -   She must stay secluded in the house;
    -   She must keep her head covered inside the house;
    -   Two women's testimony equals the testimony of one man;
    -   She must not go out unless accompanied by a near relative;
    -   Men take part in Friday and feast day prayers and funerals while women do not;
    -   Disqualification from positions such as ruler and judge;
    -   Merit has one thousand components, only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are attributable to men;
    -   If women are profligate they will be given twice as much torment as the rest of the community on Resurrection Day;
    -   If their husbands die they must observe a waiting period of four months and ten days before remarrying;
    -   If their husbands divorce them they must observe a waiting period of three months or three menstruations before remarrying.

    So basically the plight of women based on Abrahamic scriptures stems back to poor old Eve being deceived by a talking snake.

    To think so many women have suffered so much throughout history because of this nonsensical myth is baffling and saddening.


    Funny how pretty much all of the 'punishments' which a woman suffers because of Eve's temptation are laws made by MEN to subdue women.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #4 - December 01, 2008, 02:22 PM

    I also find it very bizarre how many of these Islamic thinkers even prohibit women from having friends!  They are scared of women even gettting together and fraternising amongst themselves lest they get too many ideas in their feeble little minds.

    It is my belief that these 'scholars' must have grown up in an environment almost totally devoid of women, much like the madrassa students who went on to become the Taliban, and we all know how they think of women!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #5 - December 01, 2008, 02:23 PM

    Doea that mean, the moment we stop believing in Adam- Eve descent from heaven and starts accepting that all the diverse life on earth is descended from a common gene pool of primitive organisms, thr rules / punishment remain no more valid?

     bunny
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #6 - December 01, 2008, 02:24 PM

    I also find it very bizarre how many of these Islamic thinkers even prohibit women from having friends!  They are scared of women even gettting together and fraternising amongst themselves lest they get too many ideas in their feeble little minds.

    It is my belief that these 'scholars' must have grown up in an environment almost totally devoid of women, much like the madrassa students who went on to become the Taliban, and we all know how they think of women!


    But, don't they have all women events like coffee mornings, Islamic gatherings etc.? Atleast in B'ham, East London, Bradford etc.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #7 - December 01, 2008, 04:34 PM

    Has anyone else in our little community here read this book?  What are your thoughts on it?

    Personally, I believe the reason behind men's (and specifically Muslim men's) attempts to keep women down is due to an inherant fear that if women were to actually take part more openly in politics and society in the Muslim world, they would actually do a better job at it than the men themselves!


    No I haven't had a chance to read it, but I'd like to. Must put it on my Santa list.

    The problem is that these teachings span all the way back to 7th century Arabia. And once formalised in the Qur'an and Hadiths there can be no going back for those who see this is the eternal word of God that cannot be changed.

    Al-Ghazali is recognised as the most influential Muslim thinker of all time and is described in the Encyclopaedia of Islam as 'The greatest theologian produced by Islam.'

    In his book 'The Revival of the Religious Sciences' Ghazali defines the role of a woman as follows:
    -   She should stay at home and get on with her spinning
    -   She can go out only in emergencies.
    -   She must not be well-informed nor must she be communicative with her neighbours and only visit them when absolutely necessary.
    -   She should take care of her husband and respect him in his presence and his absence and seek to satisfy him in everything.
    -   She must not leave her house without his permission and if given his permission she must leave secretly.
    -   She should put on old clothes and take deserted streets and alleys, avoid markets, and make sure that a stranger does not hear her voice, footsteps, smell her or recognize her.
    -   She must not speak to her husband's friend even in need.
    -   Her sole worry should be her "al bud" (reproductive organs), her home as well as her prayers and her fast.
    -   If a friend of her husband calls when her husband is absent she must not open the door nor reply to him in order to safeguard her "al bud".
    -   She should accept what her husband gives her as sufficient sexual needs at any moment.
    -   She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment.

    Al-Ghazali also states 'It is a fact that all the trials, misfortunes and woes which befall men come from women'. In his Book of Counsel for Kings, Ghazali sums up eighteen punishments that a woman has to endure resulting from the curse Eve received for eating from the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden:

    -   Menstruation; Childbirth; Pregnancy
    -   Separation from mother and father and marriage to a stranger;
    -   Not having control over her own person;
    -   Half the share in inheritance compared to male
    -   Her liability to be divorced and inability to divorce;
    -   It being lawful for men to have four wives, but for a woman to have only one husband;
    -   She must stay secluded in the house;
    -   She must keep her head covered inside the house;
    -   Two women's testimony equals the testimony of one man;
    -   She must not go out unless accompanied by a near relative;
    -   Men take part in Friday and feast day prayers and funerals while women do not;
    -   Disqualification from positions such as ruler and judge;
    -   Merit has one thousand components, only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are attributable to men;
    -   If women are profligate they will be given twice as much torment as the rest of the community on Resurrection Day;
    -   If their husbands die they must observe a waiting period of four months and ten days before remarrying;
    -   If their husbands divorce them they must observe a waiting period of three months or three menstruations before remarrying.

    So basically the plight of women based on Abrahamic scriptures stems back to poor old Eve being deceived by a talking snake.

    To think so many women have suffered so much throughout history because of this nonsensical myth is baffling and saddening.


    Nour, this goes WAY beyond baffling and saddening.  It is retarded, hateful, misogynistic, homicidal, totally toxic, soul-rotting, brain-buggering bullshit of the highest purity and concentration. 

    It's dreaming of course, but the absolute best thing that could ever happen to Islam would be for its women to rise up and tear it down, bury the pieces forever, and do the same to any son of a bitch that tries to resurrect it.

    If you believe in Satan, then Mohammad and al_Ghazali had to be two of his more successful little bastards.

    /rant=off
     

  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #8 - December 01, 2008, 04:37 PM



    But, don't they have all women events like coffee mornings, Islamic gatherings etc.? Atleast in B'ham, East London, Bradford etc.


    What happens in the UK is what happens in the UK, or indeed any other free thinking society, women get some chance to flourish.  Wink

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #9 - December 01, 2008, 04:39 PM

    So you mean the reason behind all women Islamic event is free society of UK. Don't such things happen in Saudi, Egypt etc ?


    But, don't they have all women events like coffee mornings, Islamic gatherings etc.? Atleast in B'ham, East London, Bradford etc.


    What happens in the UK is what happens in the UK, or indeed any other free thinking society, women get some chance to flourish.  Wink

  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #10 - December 01, 2008, 04:41 PM

    So you mean the reason behind all women Islamic event is free society of UK. Don't such things happen in Saudi, Egypt etc ?



    Well on  personal level I was never allowed to socialise much, even in the UK.  In Morocco the women gathered regularly.  Once I got married I was pretty much denied contact with other people so I can relate to what nour said.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #11 - December 01, 2008, 04:48 PM

    So you mean the reason behind all women Islamic event is free society of UK. Don't such things happen in Saudi, Egypt etc ?



    Well on  personal level I was never allowed to socialise much, even in the UK.  In Morocco the women gathered regularly.  Once I got married I was pretty much denied contact with other people so I can relate to what nour said.


    OK, this sounds off topic, but this discussion reminds me of a couple of science fiction stories called "Cathouse" by Dean Ing.  In this story, Humans have been at war with a cat-like race called "Kzinti" for a couple of centuries.  The Kzin, (a totally male-dominated warlike society) have reduced their own females to little more than breeding machines kept in special facilities referred to as "harems".

    A human stranded on a planet formerly occupied by the Kzin discovers an ancient Kzin female in stasis, revives her, and becomes allies with her.  Unlike the present day (story time) Kzin females, this one is intelligent and creative and is what Kzin females used to be before the Patriarchy took over.  More Kzin arrive and the human and Kzin female do some ass-kicking.

    Nothing is mentioned about any religion in the stories, but I cannot help but wonder if Dean Ing was infulenced by anything he had read or heard about Islam when he wrote the stories.

  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #12 - December 01, 2008, 04:53 PM

    Well on  personal level I was never allowed to socialise much, even in the UK.  In Morocco the women gathered regularly.  Once I got married I was pretty much denied contact with other people so I can relate to what nour said.


    Well, My parents very forward Hindus, still the standards are bit different for me and my bro. Sometimes I understand it is for security reasons but sometimes it is part of being a girl. :(
    And my inlaws though very nice ppl, standards are still different than me and my hubby, bro inlaw etc. If there is someone's marriage or social gathering, it is OK if my Hubby and bro inlaw comes late. But, I am always told, why don't you take half day and attend this event?  finmad And I get terribly bored at those events.

    Then I just think on good points that they don't mind working daughter inlaw. they tell me when I want to children is my business, and they even tell me once u have kids, and they start going to primary school, pursue your masters or start working again. Then I just ignore minor things.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #13 - December 02, 2008, 04:44 PM

    I also find it very bizarre how many of these Islamic thinkers even prohibit women from having friends!  They are scared of women even gettting together and fraternising amongst themselves lest they get too many ideas in their feeble little minds.

    It is my belief that these 'scholars' must have grown up in an environment almost totally devoid of women, much like the madrassa students who went on to become the Taliban, and we all know how they think of women!


    But, don't they have all women events like coffee mornings, Islamic gatherings etc.? Atleast in B'ham, East London, Bradford etc.


    Ya, Imam Ghazali was writing 1000 years ago, and a lot of people really do not accept his recommendations (which is what they are. They do not have the force of Shariah, just as his recommendation that children be dressed in white clothes holds no water beyond it being his opinion). 

    Even the Wahabis and Salafis say that women should fraternise with other good, believing women and that this will shore up their own faith.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #14 - December 02, 2008, 10:44 PM

    Quote from: SmartAssmodeus
    OK, this sounds off topic, but this discussion reminds me of a couple of science fiction stories called "Cathouse" by Dean Ing.  In this story, Humans have been at war with a cat-like race called "Kzinti" for a couple of centuries.  The Kzin, (a totally male-dominated warlike society) have reduced their own females to little more than breeding machines kept in special facilities referred to as "harems".

    A human stranded on a planet formerly occupied by the Kzin discovers an ancient Kzin female in stasis, revives her, and becomes allies with her.  Unlike the present day (story time) Kzin females, this one is intelligent and creative and is what Kzin females used to be before the Patriarchy took over.  More Kzin arrive and the human and Kzin female do some ass-kicking.

    Nothing is mentioned about any religion in the stories, but I cannot help but wonder if Dean Ing was infulenced by anything he had read or heard about Islam when he wrote the stories.


    The Kzin originally featured in Larry Niven's classic 'Ringworld'. 

    Speaking of misogyny in sci fi I always thought that the Bene Tleilax in Frank Herbert's 'Dune' books shared many similarities with hardcore Islamists and/or Gulf Arabs.  They are a deeply religious and dogmatic race, detest anyone not of their race and turn their females into 'axlotl tanks', basically giant wombs that can produce almost anything, not just children.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #15 - December 02, 2008, 11:06 PM

    Book review: Women in Islam and the Middle East
    Quote
    The problem is that you can’t begin to discuss the plight of Muslim women without someone throwing in the clich? ‘but Islam gives more rights to women than other religions’. Muslim women are worse off than the women of other religions. Should we not discuss them without getting religion thrown in? The painful truth is that Muslim women too start attacking you for bringing up their cause. Is there no solution to the problem of maltreatment of Muslim women?

    Sindhis kill their women when they feel they don’t like them any more or want to lighten the household and make place for another woman. They call it the tribal tradition of karo-kari, which is a crude and shameless practice if accusing your wife or sister of having had sexual intercourse with another man, even your father or your brother, after which you kill the luckless creature and bury her in a pariah graveyard. Needless to say, the co-accused father or brother goes free.

    The prouder the tribesman the more shameless is the practice of killing women. The Baloch bury their women alive if they dare express the wish to marry of their own accord. The proud Pashtun take the lowest rung of honour: they give away their women to satisfy the passion for revenge of a wronged party and call it swara. And when you try to legislate against these practices, brave sardars get up and claim all these shameless practices as rituals of tribal tradition.

    You can encounter a situation where a women who has been deprived of her right to property and is beaten up for nashuz (disobedience) is ready to claw your eyes for insulting Islam after you have spoken of the issues facing other women like her. The book under review therefore handles the theme carefully, talking of all sorts of women in Islam, from Khadija, Ayesha, Fatima, Zainab to, yes, Hind, the wife of Abu Sufiyan and mother of Muawiya, who fought like a wildcat against the Prophet PBUH in the battle of Uhud.

    The book finds the subject neglected although most Muslim scholars dealing with the normative rather than the real think otherwise. The norm is established by the Quran and the Prophet PBUH but the problem is that this norm is ‘interpreted’ in different places in different ways. Muslims get red around the collar discussing this subject and are not placated even by a reference to different sharias in different places. Talk of allowing female circumcision in Pakistan and you will get slapped in the face, but in Egypt it is the other way around. If you criticise female circumcision among the Shafeiites of Cairo you will get beaten up.

    We all agree on the Islamic norm of rights of women but disagree on the details or how this norm is to be interpreted. How much is a nashiza wife to be beaten? The less civilised Muslim in Syria and Ghana can beat his wife to death without the neighbours challenging him. If the wife is your cabbage patch to be tilled (agreed), how roughly is the deed to be done or with or without the consent of the cabbage patch (disagreed)? So the book arrives at the conclusion that the equality bestowed by the Quran on Muslim men and women is spiritual and not social. Hadith is more problematic: what do you make of the saying that a people whose affairs are managed by a woman will not prosper?

    The Salafiya movement under the Egyptian grand mufti Muhammad Abduh (1849-1905) did something commendable by returning to the Quran and the Prophet PBUH to cut out the different cultural rites that had become accreted on the Islamic practice. His interpretation, based on praxis in early Islam, revealed the woman was treated better than in the 20th century. So the reform took us back to the period of the Prophet and his Companions. His Quranic extrapolations favoured monogamy but unfortunately later on the salafists that branched off from his school derived polygamy from the same source.

    Hind is praised for her feats at the 7th century Battle of Yarmuk which resulted in Syria and Palestine falling under Muslim rule, but then the story reverts to her pre-conversion role against the Muslims at the Battle of Uhud that nearly killed the Prophet PBUH. The details are gory but the family of Abu Sufyan was forgiven by the Prophet PBUH for battling him, and she lived to be a brave and assertive Muslim woman. (Forgiveness was divine and perhaps came because her father, brother, uncle and oldest son were earlier killed by Muslims at the Battle of Badr.) Then Ayesha emerges as a woman of great authority revered by Muslims as a source of hadith and a model for women to follow.

    The Shia respect for women is derived from their reverence for the family of the Prophet. Fatima emerges as the ideal of womanhood because she was the daughter of Muhammad PBUH; and Khadija emerged as the ideal woman who proposed to the Prophet PBUH and set the example for Muslim women who wish to choose their husbands. When scholars like Moroccan Fatima Mernissi write to remind the Muslims of these things her views don’t always meet with the approval of our contemporary fire-and-brimstone clergy. The harder you make it the better it looks. And you make it harder still for Muslim women!

    There is also the woman of our times. Halide Edib Khanum, the Turkish women who welcomed the Kemalist revolution in Turkey and supported the Pakistan Movement. Born in 1884, she came from a highly placed Ottoman family, her father Edib Bey being secretary to Sultan Abdul Hamid the Second. Coming from this conservative background she entered the American College for Girls in Istanbul and was ready to accept the Young Turk Revolution when it came under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Pasha in 1908.

    Our own Hamida Akhtar, in her beautifully written memoir, tells us how she got to meet Halide when she was in exile in Paris after having disagreed with Kemal over doing the Turkish ulema to death by sinking their ship in high seas. She was in pain because Kemal had retained her children as ‘surety’ against her conduct in Paris. It was in Paris that Chaudhry Rehmat Ali met her and set her up as an ideal woman for the Muslims of India. *



    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #16 - December 03, 2008, 11:46 AM

    Oh boy!  Another book for my wishlist.

     thnkyu

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #17 - December 03, 2008, 05:09 PM

    Interesting post Nour, thanks.  Afro I have found that even when Muslim men abandon almost every practice of Islam - they often still retain a very backward attitude towards women and women's role in society.


    Oh here we go, I see you've become susceptible to feminist brainwashing... Women should  be treated equally, I agree, and thats all. No reason to be bending over backwards for them, in the cases such as "abortion" being a "womans choice" the courts favoring the mother in martial disputes, the reality is, woman are good at shedding crocodile tears and looking for sympathy in almost ever aspect of life.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #18 - December 03, 2008, 05:53 PM

    Women are more emothional than men. What you said is true sometimes (only when there's a dispute in my household) not always.

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #19 - December 03, 2008, 05:56 PM

    Women are more emothional than men. What you said is true sometimes (only when there's a dispute in my household) not always.


    No, different personality types are more emotional than others, it's not gender defined.  More women may be Feelers, but that does not mean emotionality is the reserve of women only, many men are feelers to.

    Some men are very emotional, even without being gay before anyone suggests that as the cause.  parrot

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #20 - December 03, 2008, 06:33 PM

    Phew! .... that explains why I am not gay, not that there's anything wrong with it.  Cheesy Cheesy

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #21 - December 03, 2008, 06:55 PM

    Interesting post Nour, thanks.  Afro I have found that even when Muslim men abandon almost every practice of Islam - they often still retain a very backward attitude towards women and women's role in society.


    Oh here we go, I see you've become susceptible to feminist brainwashing... Women should  be treated equally, I agree, and thats all. No reason to be bending over backwards for them, in the cases such as "abortion" being a "womans choice" the courts favoring the mother in martial disputes, the reality is, woman are good at shedding crocodile tears and looking for sympathy in almost ever aspect of life.

    Sorry Tut,  but sometimes we need positive discrimination for a while just to even things up. mind you , .
    as the most misogynistic amongst us you would say that I suppose.

    It's quite obvious that what Islam needs, even in it's most progressive aspects, is a good dose of Womens' Liberation, until Muslim men get the message. It amazes me that even, it seems, the majority of muslim women are misogynists!

    As a western male, who is very comfortable with the idea of men and women being part of the same species, I am apalled by the bovine passivity of many muslim women in their unchallenging acceptance of their lowly status.

    Get off your knees, for goodness sake, and give your men a good kicking where it hurts until they agree to equal terms.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: The Idea of Women in Fundamentalist Islam
     Reply #22 - December 04, 2008, 12:43 AM

    Interesting post Nour, thanks.  Afro I have found that even when Muslim men abandon almost every practice of Islam - they often still retain a very backward attitude towards women and women's role in society.


    Oh here we go, I see you've become susceptible to feminist brainwashing... Women should  be treated equally, I agree, and thats all. No reason to be bending over backwards for them, in the cases such as "abortion" being a "womans choice" the courts favoring the mother in martial disputes, the reality is, woman are good at shedding crocodile tears and looking for sympathy in almost ever aspect of life.

    Sorry Tut,  but sometimes we need positive discrimination for a while just to even things up. mind you , .
    as the most misogynistic amongst us you would say that I suppose.

    It's quite obvious that what Islam needs, even in it's most progressive aspects, is a good dose of Womens' Liberation, until Muslim men get the message. It amazes me that even, it seems, the majority of muslim women are misogynists!

    As a western male, who is very comfortable with the idea of men and women being part of the same species, I am apalled by the bovine passivity of many muslim women in their unchallenging acceptance of their lowly status.

    Get off your knees, for goodness sake, and give your men a good kicking where it hurts until they agree to equal terms.


    What do you suppose would be the reaction of a muslim male getting his ass kicked by a woman in the presence of witnesses?

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