Hey Ghazali, a question: If a muslim does not own a slave, and then commits a non-pre-meditated muder. Can he ask the family of the murdered for some time so he can go, capture some slaves, convert One of them, and then make a payment?
No he has to pay the blood money and fast for 2 consecutive months. So he can do Ramadan and then follow it with another month of fasting. So an extra month of him fasting would presumably equal the value of a slave!
Q.4:92 -
And it does not behove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid, but he who cannot find a slave should fast for two months successivelyThanx a.ghazali, reading the verse you provided, I bolded the part that I believe is pertinent.
The killer is expected to 'find' a slave.
Finding is an act that takes time.
So it is reasonable to expect that the killer should be given a 'reasonable amount of time' to 'find' a slave.
So if the killer 'fails' to 'find' a slave in a 'reasonable' time, then the killer will have to double-fast.
What do you think Ghazali and BMZ?
Hey Baal
How are you mate?
You sound like you still as ignorant as I left you last time, LOL
The verse means that he who has own a slave already
Also the above verse only applies for killing by mistake, for exmaple a car accident
Use your brain, mister Baal
Hey Ahmed, done translating some more chapters yet? It is tough.
Hey,
Yeh mate, I just started sura 17, almost reaching 50% of the whole Quran which took about 14 months, I assume after passing 75% mark I will be flying due to the fact that the verses get shorter, my pphlisophy is to never rush it, the whole objective is to help those who know no Arabic to understand the message as accurate and as literal as the words are as possible, I even inititated another project which will be a web dictionary for all the Arabic words and forms used in the Quran, I will have something very accurate to guide me me with such very tough project, I have not created the outline of the format yet bt will happen soon inshaallah.
It will take forever because of all the errors and ambiguities that you have to keep dodging.
There will be no dodging, you need to wait until finished, then you will be welcome to state your opinion, and I tell you, you as a akfir who speaks Arabic will have me attetion regarding your opinion, I still have at least 2 years to finish it, but times is flying as you know.
Had the text been properly written you would have been done several times over by now.
From which perspective you are judging what should be written proper? As I stated time us not of any importance, i only do 20 verse max a day and not every day of course, there was some delay as i have to go to Egypt and london for a few weeks and many other shit that i have to deal with. I do not consider as a work that the bloody world can't wait for, this is a humble try to pass on a more accurate message to the non Arabic speakers.
Good Luck. If you have more text posted up for review plz let me know. I am still curious how you got over the problems I highlighted with Surat 2 last time.
Indeed I progressed far more, I almost reached 50% and finished most very long suras which are very tiring, the task is gettin easier as I progress, my problem is the many ideas that I have when I start the first check, I can't wait till that phase starts which I predict will be by the end of 2009- the start of 2010 inshaallah.
Your comment is copied to my site and will be looked at when I do my first check, sorry you have to wait at least a year.
As for verse 4:92. It only means what you claimed, if it was your mom and dad that were reading it. But the reality is, the murderous believer is expected to *find* a believing slave. The text did *not* state for you to give up one of your slaves. So I am very sorry but your assumption that a slave has to be previously owned is out the window.
Look, I am not going to argue and waste my time, you are free to understand it anyway you wish, I am transmitting message of 4:92 to the best of my knowledge while considering the whole quran message in general, while you understand it in a way while only trying to fault the religion of Allah, for me this is normal and expected because I have always witnessed how the words have been put to further confused the kafirs who hinder others from the way of Allah, while the believers will easily understand the message, this fact alone is so amazing that it is also mentioned in the Quran, therefore your dispute only strengthen my belief in the Quran, I should actually thank you for that
Second. The killing does not have to be accidental. The killing only has to be in error. So if you kill a believer in error, then you are in the wrong.
Fine, I accept that
There is many other words in Arabic that the writer of the Uthmanic koran could have used to indicate 'by accident', but the writer chose to keep it open to include any wrongful killing (which includes murder).
the arabic words used is Khataa, i.e. by mistake, that is the name of accidental murder under the current egyptian law, it is called "Qatl Khataa[/b], the same words used in the Quran, sort of accidental death by another human
Now I understand that verse 4:92 puts a very big hole in the comforting truth that you and millions like you tend to fall back on. That, islam is there to "get rid of an existing slavery". This comforting truth is comfortable and sweet. And it is very nice of you to think like that. But unfortunately, the actual text contradicts for your comfortable reality.
I am not really sure what the hell you are talking about so i wil pass on that
The actual text orders you to go find a believing slave.
The actual text did not mention existing slaves.
Hmmm, is repeating yourself many timees will make you look smart of somethin?, well let me tell ya, you look dumb, you already said so at least once
How do we find slaves Ahmad?
Well, the answer is differnt depends on the generation we are living in as far as i believe, 1400 years ago there where millions of slaves every where, in fact you would have been able to buy a family for about 2 bucks 1400 and more years ago, now days however slaves in the literal sense are hardly to be found, that is why the verse said and if you can not find one then do that or that, SEE, you have been slam dunked
We capture.
Really, can you capture one, now days?
If you can, can you please get me 2 blacks and one white, thanks, I will offer them an honourable place as the Quran explained to me in the story of Yusuf
We buy.
From where exactly?
Possibly Rood El Farag market, yep, can you please buy me 20 kilos of slaves, cheers
We beg for one in exchange of favors.
Mate you have just waste my fukin time, I am very ungrateful for that
Either way, this verse will create a need for a slave trader and a slave market. So I am very sorry that your comfortable and inherently good truth about koran and slavery is not supported by the Uthmanic koran.
Either way, you are dismissed
Topic: DID QUR'AAN AND ISLAM SUPPORT SLAVERY?