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Theme Changer

 Topic: Muslims......& Women!

 (Read 68860 times)
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  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #60 - March 27, 2014, 05:03 PM

    ^That was Umar, btw.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #61 - March 27, 2014, 05:04 PM

    really :O whoever told me that hadith failed to tell me that....

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #62 - March 27, 2014, 05:05 PM

    Yeah. I've always thought Umar was a bit of a douche.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #63 - March 27, 2014, 05:08 PM

    ^And yet he is a hero in Islam...

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #64 - March 27, 2014, 05:10 PM

    If murdering of your young daughters was sooooo common among aaaaaaalll tribes, there would be a surplus of men even if we consider the fact that men died in battles. But that was not the case, multiple wives was common in pre-Islamic period for men who could afford it. Some had more than 10 wives. And given the fact that there has never been mention of young men being unable to marry, I don't think that was a problem in Arab society. Hence, the claim that so many Arabs killed their daughters on a "regular" basis must be an exaggeration. The only example I can think of in the texts was Umar killing multiple of daughters, as well as one of the companion's mother's sister who was killed in that manner (I remember this specifically from the "Message" movie, but it might not be an authentic text).

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #65 - March 27, 2014, 05:13 PM

    ^And yet he is a hero in Islam...


    Pretty much just because he was a douche, though. I don't think there is anything about Umar I've ever admired. I think I might make a "Why Umar is a Douche" thread.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #66 - March 27, 2014, 05:17 PM

    Even Anwar al Awlaqi admitted that hadn't it been for Islam, Umar would have been an good for nothing drunk with no social status or anything. He really was a bad seed, everyone knew it. Everyone knew he was violent and a psychopath.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #67 - March 27, 2014, 05:21 PM

    Pretty much just because he was a douche, though. I don't think there is anything about Umar I've ever admired. I think I might make a "Why Umar is a Douche" thread.


     I would like to read that thread

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #68 - March 27, 2014, 08:04 PM

    Yeah, Umar ibn al Khattab; that great advocate for women...   wacko

    It's because of him that Muslim women have to wear hijab.

    Even in my most fervent Muslimah days I never liked him.  His misogyny was so obvious.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #69 - March 27, 2014, 08:28 PM

    1. Killed his own daughter
    2.  Beat up his sister for changing her religion.
    3. Told Hafsa she was uglier than Aisha
    4. Talked Muhammad into forcing women to wear hijab
    5. Talked Muhammad into threatening his wives with divorce and hell


    And that's just as it relates to women. He made a lot of other douche bag moves as well.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #70 - March 27, 2014, 08:31 PM

    Quote
    Umar married a total of 9 women in his lifetime and had 14 children, 10 sons and 4 daughters.

    Wife: Zaynab bint Maz'un (at the time of Jahiliyyah [Days of Ignorance])

    Son: Abdullah ibn Umar
    Son: Abdulrahman ibn 'Umar (The Older)
    Son: Abdulrahman ibn 'Umar
    Daughter: Hafsa bint Umar

    Wife: Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khuzima (divorced)

    Son: Ubaidullah ibn Umar
    Son: Zayd ibn 'Umar

    Wife: Quraybah bint Abi Umayyah al-Makhzumi (divorced, married by Abdulrehman ibn Abu Bakr)

    Wife: Umm Hakim bint al-Harith ibn Hisham (after her husband, a former ally of 'Umar and a companion Ikrimah ibn Abi-Jahl was killed in Battle of Yarmouk, later divorced but al-Madaini says he did not divorce her)

    Daughter: Fatima bint 'Umar

    Wife: Jamilah bint Asim ibn Thabit ibn Abi al-Aqlah (from the tribe of Aws)

    Son: Asim ibn Umar

    Wife: Atikah bint Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl (cousin of Umar and former wife of Abdullah ibn Abu Bakrmarried 'Umar in the year 12 AH and after 'Umar was murdered, she married az-Zubayr ibn al-Awwam)

    Son: Iyaad ibn 'Umar

    Wife: Umm Kulthum bint 'Ali (the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib).

    Son: Zayd ibn 'Umar, (famously known as Ibnul Khalifatayn; the son of the two Caliphs i.e Umar and Ali).
    Daughter: Ruqayyah bint 'Umar

    Wife: Luhyah (a woman from Yemen (Yaman) who's marital status with 'Umar is disputed, al-Waqidi said that she was Umm Walad, meaning a slave woman)[114]
    Son: Abdulrahman ibn 'Umar (the youngest Abdulrehman while some say the middle Abdulrehman from Luhyah)

    Wife: Fukayhah (as Umm Walad)
    Daughter: Zaynab bint 'Umar (the smallest child of 'Umar from Fukayhah)

    Another son is az-Zubayr ibn Bakkar, called Abu Shahmah, though from which wife is unknown.


    look at that he married Umm Kulthum bint 'Ali (the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib).

    well Prophet of Islam with is revelations started that multiple wives business.  All these four rightly guided Caliphs stated this  inbreeding  business after the death of Mr. PBUH because they were following in the foot steps of Prophet of allah ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #71 - March 27, 2014, 11:47 PM

    Is this a cool time to say that my husband has forever planned to name his first son Umar? I was never a fan of Umar, either, so I pacified myself by determining that, as far as I was concerned, Umar Khayyam would always be his namesake. Now there's an Umar to be named after.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #72 - March 27, 2014, 11:50 PM

    Is this a cool time to say that my husband has forever planned to name his first son Umar? I was never a fan of Umar, either, so I pacified myself by determining that, as far as I was concerned, Umar Khayyam would always be his namesake. Now there's an Umar to be named after.

    Helloo lua.. Just to let you know  Umer/Omer is NOT an Islamic name.  It is actually pre-Islamic  Arab Pagan name ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #73 - March 27, 2014, 11:53 PM

    Yes, but I know he wants to name it that after al-Khattab specifically.

    He has this very romantic notion of him and the community under his rule. He believes that society to have been the ideal Muslim society and thinks we should go back to it.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #74 - March 28, 2014, 12:07 AM

    Pretty much just because he was a douche, though. I don't think there is anything about Umar I've ever admired. I think I might make a "Why Umar is a Douche" thread.

    Do it. He always seemed extra fundamentalist to me…
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #75 - March 28, 2014, 03:09 AM

    the most famous story I heard about Islam honoring woman is God made them stop burying baby girls alive, because humans couldn't figure out that was wrong.....

    I have heard some really scary stories of men burying their daughters alive, one involving a man burying his 5 year old daughter alive, she even helped dig the grave.... mind you this was before islam came to save her

    What moron would believe that?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #76 - March 28, 2014, 03:10 AM

    He has this very romantic notion of him and the community under his rule. He believes that society to have been the ideal Muslim society and thinks we should go back to it.

    That's scary.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #77 - March 28, 2014, 03:12 AM

    Do it. He always seemed extra fundamentalist to me…


    Yes, please, do start that thread. I never liked that man, even as a Muslim. To have a list of his sins against humanity would be gratifying.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #78 - March 28, 2014, 01:09 PM

    I've got a list of about 15 douche-baggish things he did. I just have to put in all the sources. He was a dick.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #79 - March 28, 2014, 01:24 PM

    I think he was the one who banned women from praying at mosques。
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #80 - March 28, 2014, 01:25 PM

    Yes, but I know he wants to name it that after al-Khattab specifically.

    He has this very romantic notion of him and the community under his rule. He believes that society to have been the ideal Muslim society and thinks we should go back to it.

    Well  your hubby  doesn't know the facts and he may have not read Islamic history...  But give him first four letters "Umer" as  kid's name  and you add the last name  "KHAYYAM   or  AL-KHAYYAM" provided you are also born Muslim., But if the kid is a zebra like me then the other half of the name must come his mother side of family..

      ....lua..... ...DO NOT COMPROMISE THERE..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #81 - March 28, 2014, 01:44 PM

    Quote
    634: Battles of Basra, Damascus and Ajnadin. Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph. Battles of Namaraq and Saqatia.
    635: Battle of Bridge. Battle of Buwaib. Conquest of Damascus. Battle of Fahl.
    636: Battle of Yermuk. Battle of Qadsiyia. Conquest of Madain.
    637: Conquest of Syria. Fall of Jerusalem. Battle of Jalula.
    638: Conquest of Jazirah.
    639: Conquest of Khuizistan. Advance into Egypt.
    640: Capture of the post of Caesaria in Syria. Conquest of Shustar and Jande Sabur in Persia. Battle of Babylon in Egypt.
    641: Battle of Nihawand. Conquest Of Alexandria in Egypt.
    642: Battle of Rayy in Persia. Conquest of Egypt. Foundation of Fustat.
    643: Conquest of Azarbaijan and Tabaristan (Russia).
    644: Conquest of Fars, Kerman, Sistan, Mekran and Kharan.  Martyrdom of Hadrat Umar. Hadrat Othman becomes the Caliph.

    And  those 10 years of early Islamic history is his Islam....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #82 - March 28, 2014, 01:45 PM

    ^He has many books, books I've read myself, about al-Khattab and his rule. They do paint, for the most part, a nice picture of him and his society. Even al-Khattab wandering up and down the street with his giant stick wasn't regarded as something a weird old man with no concept of boundaries did, but as an example of how this good caliph personally watched his community and cared about the people enough to give them a beatin'.

    That and Cordoba are just these really romantic periods of time in his mind, where sharia was applied correctly, where everything worked, where people were afraid to kill and steal and rape and so it just didn't really happen, and everything was a well-oiled machine.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #83 - March 28, 2014, 01:54 PM

    Like England before immigration. Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #84 - March 28, 2014, 03:17 PM

    People who claim al Andalus was some sort of perfect shariah state really do not know anything about the time. Are people ignorant about how North African jihadist and muwahhidoon accused them for being extreme innovators and sinners? They even fought them in order to establish pure shariah and get rid of their un-Islamic immoral innovations. The only reason I see for al Andalus being romanticized like a perfect shariah state, is because different religious groups lived in relative harmony... and because science flourished.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #85 - March 28, 2014, 03:29 PM

    Quote
    Narrated Malik bin Aus An-Nasri: I proceeded till I entered upon 'umar (and while I was sitting there), his gate-keeper Yarfa came to him and said, " 'Uthman, 'Abdur-Rahman, Az-Zubair and Sa'd ask your permission to come in." 'umar allowed them. So they entered, greeted, and sat down. (After a while the gatekeeper came) and said, "Shall I admit 'Ali and 'Abbas?'' 'umar allowed them to enter. Al-'Abbas said "O Chief of the believers! Judge between me and the oppressor ('Ali)." Then there was a dispute (regarding the property of Bani Nadir) between them ('Abbas and 'Ali). 'Uthman and his companions said, "O Chief of the Believers! Judge between them and relieve one from the other." umar said, "Be patient! beseech you by Allah, with Whose permission the Heaven and the Earth Exist! Do you know that Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property is not to be inherited, and whatever we leave is to be given in charity,' and by this Allah's Apostle meant himself?" On that the group said, "He verily said so." 'umar then faced 'Ali and 'Abbas and said, "I beseech you both by Allah, do you both know that Allah's Apostle said so?" They both replied, "Yes". 'umar then said, "Now I am talking to you about this matter (in detail) . Allah favored Allah's Apostle with some of this wealth which He did not give to anybody else, as Allah said: 'What Allah bestowed as Fai (Booty on His Apostle for which you made no expedition... ' (59.6) So that property was totally meant for Allah's Apostle, yet he did not collect it and ignore you, nor did he withhold it with your exclusion, but he gave it to you and distributed it among you till this much of it was left behind, and the Prophet, used to spend of this as the yearly expenditures of his family and then take what remained of it and spent it as he did with (other) Allah's wealth. The Prophet did so during all his lifetime, and I beseech you by Allah, do you know that?" They replied, "Yes." 'umar then addressed 'Ali and 'Abbas, saying, "I beseech you both by Allah, do you know that?" Both of them replied, "Yes." 'umar added, "Then Allah took His Apostle unto Him. Abu Bakr then said 'I am the successor of Allah's Apostle' and took over all the Prophet's property and disposed of it in the same way as Allah's Apostle used to do, and you were present then." Then he turned to 'Ali and 'Abbas and said, "You both claim that Abu Bakr did so-and-so in managing the property, but Allah knows that Abu Bakr was honest, righteous, intelligent, and a follower of what is right in managing it. Then Allah took Abu Bakr unto Him, 'I said: I am the successor of Allah's Apostle and Abu Bakr.' So I took over the property for two years and managed it in the same way as Allah's Apostle, and Abu Bakr used to do. Then you both ('Ali and 'Abbas) came to me and asked for the same thing! (O 'Abbas! You came to me to ask me for your share from nephew's property; and this ('Ali) came to me asking for his wives share from her father's property, and I said to you both, 'If you wish, I will place it in your custody on condition that you both will manage it in the same way as Allah's Apostle and Abu Bakr did and as I have been doing since I took charge of managing it; otherwise, do not speak to me anymore about it.' Then you both said, 'Give it to us on that (condition).' So I gave it to you on that condition. Now I beseech you by Allah, did I not give it to them on that condition?" The group (whom he had been addressing) replied, "Yes." 'umar then addressed 'Abbas and 'Ali saying, "I beseech you both by Allah, didn't I give you all that property on that condition?" They said, "Yes." 'umar then said, "Are you now seeking a verdict from me other than that? By Him with Whose Permission the Heaven and the Earth exists I will not give any verdict other than that till the Hour is established; and if you both are unable to manage this property, then you can hand it back to me, and I will be sufficient for it on your behalf." (See, Hadith No. 326, Vol. 4) (Book #92, Hadith #408)

    interesting looong stupid hadith of early Islam.,  Islamic literature projects that fellow Umar as loud mouth and an angry guy.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #86 - March 28, 2014, 03:36 PM

    It is interesting how all ahadeeth use a very formal language, unnatural for spoken word, and they most usually follow known literary pattern in retelling stories and anecdotes. This more than anything gives away that the ahadeeth are not honest and genuine recounts of real events. I even had an Arabic professor at Uni who did a literary analysis of the "honey incident" with Aishah, it was very interesting and just showed what utter bullshit the ahadeeth are. I think that was something that just strengthened my doubts and thoughts about ahadeeth being unreliable and obviously fake through and through. And to top it all off, I had a sister contact me asking me to refute and contact the University in order to silence the professor and remove the paper from the University page. I was like, wtf. You can't affect freedom of speech like that. But she wouldn't listen, she took it as an offence towards Aishah, the kuffar want to make everything "dirty". That Mo married her at 9 was a "beautiful" thing we should not be ashamed of, but if kuffar talk about it as something "dirty" or criticize it, we must silence them out of gheerah for our religion. I ignored her, by the way Roll Eyes

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #87 - March 28, 2014, 03:48 PM

    People who claim al Andalus was some sort of perfect shariah state really do not know anything about the time. Are people ignorant about how North African jihadist and muwahhidoon accused them for being extreme innovators and sinners? They even fought them in order to establish pure shariah and get rid of their un-Islamic immoral innovations. The only reason I see for al Andalus being romanticized like a perfect shariah state, is because different religious groups lived in relative harmony... and because science flourished.


    My problem comes down to his education. He was raised to look at these times as great moments in Muslim history, and, in his adulthood, he has read many books to back up what he wants to believe on the matter. If I presented him with anything that suggested that there is a dark side to the community in Cordoba or the one under Umar's reign, he will dismiss it as someone's attempts to attack Islam.

    Oh well.

  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #88 - March 28, 2014, 04:09 PM

    My problem comes down to his education. He was raised to look at these times as great moments in Muslim history, and, in his adulthood, he has read many books to back up what he wants to believe on the matter.  .........

    That is NOT your problem  lua., his education is his problem., If he didn't read before he should read now with open mind and OPEN HEART..

    your problem is your kids..  any ways,  let me add a bit of   pdf file from that Umar Ibn Al-Khattab on the Second Rightly Guided Caliph  

    Umar Ibn Al-Khattab the Second Rightly Guided Caliph  

    Umer or any other  early Islamic characters  are the folks of their time..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #89 - March 28, 2014, 04:40 PM

    People who claim al Andalus was some sort of perfect shariah state really do not know anything about the time. Are people ignorant about how North African jihadist and muwahhidoon accused them for being extreme innovators and sinners? They even fought them in order to establish pure shariah and get rid of their un-Islamic immoral innovations. The only reason I see for al Andalus being romanticized like a perfect shariah state, is because different religious groups lived in relative harmony... and because science flourished.


    I'm afraid neither the diff groups nor science flourished;

    ok maybe scientists were given more space to produce unlike under christian backward laws at the time,

    yet ironically most scientists were also accused of heresy by muslims!!

    Some jews got assasinated FFS.

    uh Muslims!!

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
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