Question marks in posts.

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- osmanthus
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Question marks in posts.
OP - December 31, 2008, 10:22 PM

We've had a problem with this and it only happens to some members, not all.
I'm trying to nail down the problem and need more information to do this.

NOTE: If you are not having this problem with your posts please do not respond to this thread. I'm only after information from people who do have this problem. Furthermore, I'm only concerned about when it happens to posts you make from scratch. Obviously quoting someone else's post is irrelevant.

If you are having this problem I'd like to know:

1/ Are you using a program like Word to compose your posts and then copy/pasting them into the forum reply window?

2/ Have you set your browser to fixed UTF-8?

ETA: Note that if you are using a Microsoft editor like Word to compose your posts it will make a mess of apostrophes due to Microsoft's coders being idiots, as usual.

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=282676.msg1858242#msg1858242

Quote
Another path to pursue: when people type in apostrophes and quotation marks, and they're changed to oddball/unprintable characters, it's the result of using a Microsoft editor. The "editor" (such as Word) "helpfully" changes the quotation marks and apostrophes to the typographically correct glyphs. This is called "smart quotes". Unfortunately, the character set that MS uses is not a standard one, and thus quotation marks and apostrophes don't show up correctly on a Web page. They're in an area reserved for control characters.

Also: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=282676.msg1873587#msg1873587

Quote
What are you producing the original text in, before cutting and pasting it into SMF? If you're using Word (or similar Microsoft word processors), you will have to find a way to turn off the "smart quotes" function. It turns your apostrophes into typographically correct glyphs, but unfortunately, MS used nonstandard code points for these characters.

Now people, I've done some testing and have discovered something. Open Office does not make a mess of apostrophes. If you use Open Office to compose articles then you can copy/paste them without any problems. It's free and open source software so it's worth thinking about. I have it installed myself, of course.

Open Office.org

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #1 - December 31, 2008, 10:35 PM

2/ Have you set your browser to fixed UTF-8?

What does that mean?

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- osmanthus
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #2 - December 31, 2008, 10:37 PM

Well the forum doesn't run UTF-8 at the moment. It's a way of coding display of different languages. If your browser is set to force UTF-8 this could create a problem. It's the converse of what happens when people try to post Arabic at the moment and get a pile of smileys and question marks.

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- diotima
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #3 - January 01, 2009, 03:12 AM

I am just writing in the box that opens, when I hit "reply"... no word involved.
Also, I have no ideas about my browser?s setttings... I use IE in the office, and firefox3 at home... and google at my bro?s computer when I stay at my mum?s house... I also didn?t change anything, and didn?t use to have that problem.
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #4 - January 01, 2009, 08:42 PM

Osmanthus

quote Diotima
Quote
I am just writing in the box that opens, when I hit "reply"... no word involved.

Me too.

Where do you check your browser settings ? I use Internet Explorer.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #5 - January 03, 2009, 02:52 AM

I get the same weird question marks, too. They're annoying.

1/ No, but when I click the "Programs" tab in IE Options, I see that Microsoft Word is the default HTML editor.
2/ How do I check that?

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #6 - January 03, 2009, 08:55 AM

Ok, hang on a minute.

Paloma is using Internet Explorer.

Zaephon is using Internet Explorer as well.*

Diotima: do you get the question marks inserting themselves into your posts when you post from home?
In other words, does the problem happen with your posts when you are not using Internet Explorer?

*Zaephon and Paloma: Check under View >> Encoding

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #7 - January 03, 2009, 11:00 AM

This is a test post.

bro`s (with gravis accent)
bro?s (with akut accent)
bro's (with single quote -> should be used as apostrophe)

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #8 - January 03, 2009, 11:01 AM

? get the same results, from whatever pc I post, Os - even when I insert quotes from external sources.
Funny thing is, when I write in the reply-box, at first everything looks alright - until I post it!
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #9 - January 03, 2009, 11:03 AM

Dio, are you sure you are not trying to use an akut accent from your German keyboard as an apostrophe when posting in English?

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #10 - January 03, 2009, 11:07 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on January 03, 2009, 11:03 AM
Dio, are you sure you are not trying to use an akut accent from your German keyboard as an apostrophe when posting in English?

I probably do - it?s a German keyboard after all... but why would that appear as a question mark?
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #11 - January 03, 2009, 11:11 AM

Because at the moment we don't run UTF-8 encoding and the akut is a UTF-8 character. Since it can't render it shows as a question mark, just the same as Arabic characters do here when people try to post those.

I think this is the key to the problems all of you are having. I assume Paloma and Zaephon are running non-English keyboards as well. We may have to live with this glitch until I change the board over to UTF-8. I'm planning on doing this around the end of this month.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #12 - January 03, 2009, 11:12 AM

well - the weird thing is, I ve been using the same accent whenever I write in English - and the problem only arose a short while ago?
- osmanthus
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #13 - January 03, 2009, 11:14 AM

Yeah that's true. Bloody computers. This will be a pain to track.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #14 - January 03, 2009, 01:08 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on January 03, 2009, 08:55 AM
*Zaephon and Paloma: Check under View >> Encoding

It says: Western Europe (ISO)

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #15 - January 05, 2009, 01:44 AM

Bump. I still get the awful question marks.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #16 - January 05, 2009, 06:46 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on January 03, 2009, 11:11 AM
Because at the moment we don't run UTF-8 encoding and the akut is a UTF-8 character. Since it can't render it shows as a question mark, just the same as Arabic characters do here when people try to post those.

I think this is the key to the problems all of you are having. I assume Paloma and Zaephon are running non-English keyboards as well. We may have to live with this glitch until I change the board over to UTF-8. I'm planning on doing this around the end of this month.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #17 - January 13, 2009, 03:58 PM

I use both Firefox and Google Chrome and under both I get a question mark when I post a pound sign. My quotes work fine though.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #18 - January 13, 2009, 04:01 PM

I just tested with IE and still have the problem.

Quote from: osmanthus on January 03, 2009, 08:55 AM
*Zaephon and Paloma: Check under View >> Encoding

Mine says Western European ISO

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #19 - January 13, 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on December 31, 2008, 10:22 PM
2/ Have you set your browser to fixed UTF-8?

Just found out how to check this on Firefox and that is fixed to UTF-8. In Google Chrome it's Western European ISO.

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- osmanthus
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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #20 - January 14, 2009, 12:35 AM

Hmmm. Well like I said earlier I'll change the forum over to UTF-8 when I do the database merger. It's not a major drama doing the swap but I need to copy and rename all our language files so I'm planning on doing a total upgrade while I'm at it.

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #21 - May 09, 2009, 11:39 PM

ETA: Note that if you are using a Microsoft editor like Word to compose your posts it will make a mess of apostrophes due to Microsoft's coders being idiots, as usual.

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=282676.msg1858242#msg1858242

Quote
Another path to pursue: when people type in apostrophes and quotation marks, and they're changed to oddball/unprintable characters, it's the result of using a Microsoft editor. The "editor" (such as Word) "helpfully" changes the quotation marks and apostrophes to the typographically correct glyphs. This is called "smart quotes". Unfortunately, the character set that MS uses is not a standard one, and thus quotation marks and apostrophes don't show up correctly on a Web page. They're in an area reserved for control characters.

Also: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=282676.msg1873587#msg1873587

Quote
What are you producing the original text in, before cutting and pasting it into SMF? If you're using Word (or similar Microsoft word processors), you will have to find a way to turn off the "smart quotes" function. It turns your apostrophes into typographically correct glyphs, but unfortunately, MS used nonstandard code points for these characters.

Now people, I've done some testing and have discovered something. Open Office does not make a mess of apostrophes. If you use Open Office to compose articles then you can copy/paste them without any problems. It's free and open source software so it's worth thinking about. I have it installed myself, of course.

Open Office.org

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Re: Question marks in posts.
Reply #22 - March 07, 2010, 11:30 AM

Locked this thread and made it non-sticky. I solved this problem here: Permanent solution for the Unicode problem

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