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 Topic: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday

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  • Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     OP - January 07, 2009, 05:32 PM
    I just thought this might be interesting  grin12

    Christianity: A History (8 parts)

    7pm - Channel 4 - Sunday

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/christianity-a-history

    The first episode is; Jesus the Jew

    Written and presented by leading British writer Howard Jacobson. Himself a Jew, Jacobson examines the origins and consequences of Christian belief and argues that, although Christianity originated in devout Judaism, for Jews, it has been, for the most part, a calamity.

    Jacobson talks to Christian and Jewish scholars. He visits Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Galilee and Rome to find out more about Jesus, the Jew. He looks into how key Christian beliefs - including the notion of a Messiah and baptism - have roots in Judaism.

    Furthermore, he asserts that Jesus didn't intend to start a new religion, that for Jesus's family - all Jewish - the new movement remained within Judaism: for them he was a charismatic Rabbi.

    Is Judaism Christianity's guilty secret?
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #1 - January 07, 2009, 06:01 PM
    Thanks Hassan,

    I'm probably going to watch that and set my SkyBox to track it and record it.

    I've recently picked up the New Testament and started reading some bits now and again. The last time I did was more than 20 years ago for my RE O' Level.

    Anyway from the little I've read the impression I get is that it is drenched in Judaism so there's no secret there.

    This guy saying that Jesus wasn't meant to start a new religion is a bit silly when every second or third page has a miracle on it. I don't know about Jewish history but how many Rabbi's went around performing miracles, that is if you believe in miracles of course.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #2 - January 07, 2009, 06:04 PM
    IF one was about to debate the theological differences of christianity and judaism, it might have been preferable to have a theologian and a rabbi talk, NOT a mere historian. AND one with an obvious axe to grind, too.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #3 - January 07, 2009, 06:30 PM
    Quote from: diotima on January 07, 2009, 06:04 PM
    IF one was about to debate the theological differences of christianity and judaism, it might have been preferable to have a theologian and a rabbi talk, NOT a mere historian. AND one with an obvious axe to grind, too.


    Well, there is this...

    Quote
    Jacobson talks to Christian and Jewish scholars.


    Plus, I gather its a history of Christianity, rather than an exercise in comparative religion, so a historian is probably the best person, axe or no axe.   Wink

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #4 - January 07, 2009, 06:33 PM
    Quote
    Furthermore, he asserts that Jesus didn't intend to start a new religion, that for Jesus's family - all Jewish - the new movement remained within Judaism: for them he was a charismatic Rabbi.


    well, that?s more of a theological evaluation, than a historical one. Just saying.I wouldn?t watch any tv-programme about religion, anyway. Or most other things on tv, that pretend to be "educative".
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #5 - January 07, 2009, 09:53 PM
    Quote from: diotima on January 07, 2009, 06:33 PM
    Quote
    Furthermore, he asserts that Jesus didn't intend to start a new religion, that for Jesus's family - all Jewish - the new movement remained within Judaism: for them he was a charismatic Rabbi.

    I wouldn?t watch any tv-programme about religion, anyway. Or most other things on tv, that pretend to be "educative".

    Yes. It's corruptive.  piggy
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #6 - January 07, 2009, 10:02 PM
    Grin You bet. Leads to all sorts of horrible consequences......................
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #7 - January 08, 2009, 01:33 AM
    I hope they speak to Geza Vermes as well. He's probably my favourite biblical critical thinker on all matters Jesus.
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #8 - January 08, 2009, 09:41 AM
    Quote from: Iggy on January 07, 2009, 09:53 PM
    Quote from: diotima on January 07, 2009, 06:33 PM
    Quote
    Furthermore, he asserts that Jesus didn't intend to start a new religion, that for Jesus's family - all Jewish - the new movement remained within Judaism: for them he was a charismatic Rabbi.

    I wouldn?t watch any tv-programme about religion, anyway. Or most other things on tv, that pretend to be "educative".

    Yes. It's corruptive.  piggy


    No, mostly just a waste of time. I very rarely found anything worthwhile. Well - maybe stuff about the animal kingdom in Oz or so...
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #9 - January 11, 2009, 08:02 PM
    Did anyone else watch this?  I thought it was interesting, not what I expected.  It was more like a history of anti-Semitism than of Christianity. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #10 - January 11, 2009, 08:18 PM
    Yes I saw it and it was pretty lame to be honest.

    It was 'Jesus the Jew' for the first five minutes then 54 minutes of the history of anti-Semitism in Christianity as you've rightly pointed out then the phrase 'Jesus the Jew' at the end.

    I hope the rest won't be like that one.

    It reminded me why I prefer documentaries on physics.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #11 - January 11, 2009, 08:49 PM
    After all that I missed it lol
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #12 - January 12, 2009, 09:20 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 08:02 PM
    Did anyone else watch this?  I thought it was interesting, not what I expected.  It was more like a history of anti-Semitism than of Christianity. 


    Well, that is EXACTLY what was to be expected from the summary.  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #13 - January 12, 2009, 12:16 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 08:02 PM
    Did anyone else watch this?  I thought it was interesting, not what I expected.  It was more like a history of anti-Semitism than of Christianity. 


    Yes I did catch this, though missed the first 10 minutes. Nothing revelatory really, unless you are new to the subject matter.

    The teachings of the new testament did result in untold suffering for Jews and non Christians in general throughout the last 2000 years. After all 'the blood of Christ being on the head of the Jews' is no light statement to make. And had horrendous consequences for Jews for a very long time.

    Each week its different narrators looking at various aspects of Christianity so there will be various understandings of the arguments being presented.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #14 - January 12, 2009, 02:17 PM
    I hate Australian television...can never find anything like this to watch...
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #15 - January 12, 2009, 03:17 PM
    Quote from: diotima on January 12, 2009, 09:20 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 08:02 PM
    Did anyone else watch this?  I thought it was interesting, not what I expected.  It was more like a history of anti-Semitism than of Christianity. 


    Well, that is EXACTLY what was to be expected from the summary.  Roll Eyes


    There's nothing wrong with it either.  Its a series of programmes examining the history of Christianity from all different angles.  Christian anti-Semitism is a perfectly valid subject to look at, and I found it interesting because a lot of it was stuff I didn't know before, like St. Hugh of Lincoln or that Jews in 13th century England were made to wear yellow badges and live in ghettos.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #16 - January 12, 2009, 03:27 PM
    Cheetah,
    I have read that jews were better treated under Islamic Caliphate as comapred to Christian history. That does not make Caliphate better as there was still a lot of discrimination and I don't know the validity of that claim.

    Quote from: Cheetah on January 12, 2009, 03:17 PM
    Quote from: diotima on January 12, 2009, 09:20 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 08:02 PM
    Did anyone else watch this?  I thought it was interesting, not what I expected.  It was more like a history of anti-Semitism than of Christianity. 


    Well, that is EXACTLY what was to be expected from the summary.  Roll Eyes


    There's nothing wrong with it either.  Its a series of programmes examining the history of Christianity from all different angles.  Christian anti-Semitism is a perfectly valid subject to look at, and I found it interesting because a lot of it was stuff I didn't know before, like St. Hugh of Lincoln or that Jews in 13th century England were made to wear yellow badges and live in ghettos.

  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #17 - January 12, 2009, 03:37 PM
    Quote
    Cheetah,
    I have read that jews were better treated under Islamic Caliphate as comapred to Christian history. That does not make Caliphate better as there was still a lot of discrimination and I don't know the validity of that claim.


    I think at times they were.  Probly depended on the Caliph, also the rules for dhimmis meant that Christians and Jews were a source of income to the Islamic state, so they wouldn't be killing Jews too often, it'd be like killing the golden goose. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #18 - January 19, 2009, 04:33 PM
    Did anybody watch the second part of this?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #19 - January 19, 2009, 04:54 PM
    I haven't watched any of it yet, but it's available to watch here.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #20 - January 19, 2009, 05:38 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 19, 2009, 04:33 PM
    Did anybody watch the second part of this?


    Yes. I found it quite interesting and I hate to admit it but I actually like Michael Portillo  grin12

    It was interesting to hear that guy (dnt know his name) say that it was a distaster (or words to that effect) for Christianity when Constantine brought it into the centre of power and merged it with the State.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #21 - January 19, 2009, 05:41 PM
    I didn't realise Portillo was an ex-Catholic.  Who'd a thought I'd have something in common with him?  wacko  It was an interesting one, I think I'm hooked for the whole series now.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #22 - January 19, 2009, 05:50 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 19, 2009, 05:41 PM
    I didn't realise Portillo was an ex-Catholic.  Who'd a thought I'd have something in common with him?  wacko  It was an interesting one, I think I'm hooked for the whole series now.


    You are atheist now, Cheetah - is that right?

    Do you know the name of the young Christian chap who said the quote I referred to above? I've seen him on TV discussions before and I quite like him.

    That's the sort of Christian I really respect and always associated with Christianity before I came on the internet lol

    It is amazing how the internet has really given me a very bad impression of Christians. (The internet just has too many extremes of all flavours)


  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #23 - January 19, 2009, 05:53 PM
    I am atheist now, yes.  I don't know the guys name, but you can watch the programme on C4's web site, so you could find his name that way. 

    The Internet brings out the worst in all groups I think.  I've met plenty of muslims, but never met one that went on like some of the characters on Ummah.com.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #24 - January 19, 2009, 06:13 PM
    Quote from: Hassan
    It was interesting to hear that guy (dnt know his name) say that it was a distaster (or words to that effect) for Christianity when Constantine brought it into the centre of power and merged it with the State.

    That's an old idea. Italian poet Dante attributed all the corruption in the Catholic Church to the donations of Constantine, for example.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #25 - January 19, 2009, 06:16 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 19, 2009, 05:53 PM
    I am atheist now, yes.  I don't know the guys name, but you can watch the programme on C4's web site, so you could find his name that way. 

    The Internet brings out the worst in all groups I think.  I've met plenty of muslims, but never met one that went on like some of the characters on Ummah.com.


    That's true - and of course I don't judge the majority of Christians like some of the whackos I have come across on youtube - for example.

    Isn't it ironic that those that claim the superiority of their religion, race or nationality the loudest and most relentlessly are usually the worst examples of it!
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #26 - January 19, 2009, 06:18 PM
    Absolutely!  And doubly ironic that they usually only do it from behind a keyboard.   Roll Eyes
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Christianity: A History on Channel 4 starting this Sunday
     Reply #27 - January 19, 2009, 06:20 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on January 19, 2009, 06:13 PM
    Quote from: Hassan
    It was interesting to hear that guy (dnt know his name) say that it was a distaster (or words to that effect) for Christianity when Constantine brought it into the centre of power and merged it with the State.

    That's an old idea. Italian poet Dante attributed all the corruption in the Catholic Church to the donations of Constantine, for example.


    I can see why there is a struggle within Christianity about how far - or if at all - the Church should be involved with government. I suspect the 'purists' (for want of a better word) like the chap in the program, would say that it shouldn't be involved at all.

    Quite the reverse for Islam of course. Right from the word go, Islam was not only involved in the government - it was the government!
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