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Theme Changer

 Topic: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?

 (Read 16481 times)
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  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #60 - January 26, 2009, 05:44 AM

    It is not my fault that you spent many years of your life venerating that book looking for a reason to like it. That was your cross to carry. And I also can not help it if you still have to carry that cross


    This comment reveals the contempt he holds ex-Muslims in and yet he has chosen to set up shop on a site full of Ex-Muslims.

    Excuse me . Contempt? Stop being a drama queen. You were venerating that book and you were looking for reasons to like it. Accept it for what it was. Also accept that you finally beat it. It tried to convince you and it lost. You won. Case over. Now go Fvck a prom queen or  do whatever winners do when they win.

    People he looks down on, despises, holds in contempt, and sneers at.... all for the sake of attacking Islam.

    despises? holding in contempt? sneering? <yawn>

    But to him the "Ends justify the means" - he talks about how Muslims practice taqiyya, yet he is the one who practices it the most.

    Interesting. I am the one who always said that muslims can spend their entire life not hearing about the word taqqiya except a few times. Are you sure you are talking about the same guy Hassan?

    And what Taqqiya do I practice. Here I am going to state it again. In the open. I want islam in its current form eradicated. Am I clear enough? Am I hiding something still?

    You made this image of some villain in your mind and you keep falling back on that image, as a source of endless drama. I am sorry you require this much drama in your life to go through the day. I am also sorry if I can not hold up to that image of a villain that you need from me. Just like you did not present to Elle and Galeggo the villain they needed
    .

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #61 - January 26, 2009, 01:04 PM

    I want islam in its current form eradicated


    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    I will defend the right of anyone to believe in whatever religion they want, even if I think their beliefs absurd.

    I'm sure that as someone who spends so much time in the cause of "Eradicating Islam" you cannot be unaware of what the ugly consequences of that would inevitably be. Nor does your saying; "In it's current form" make it less odious.

    It is just another way of saying you refuse to tolerate the many peaceful interpretations of Islam that most Muslims currently live their lives by.

    You want to eradicate Islam - in it's current form - eradicating the extremist & violent interpretations with the many peaceful interpretations; The moderate interpretations, the Sufi interpretations, the Esoteric and and philosophical interpretations, the millions of 'personal' interpretations.

    They all need to be stamped out lest the evil of Islam rear it's ugly head again.

    What I don't understand is why are you here?

    There are already sites dedicated to "Eradicating" Islam.

    Faithfreedom and Jihadchat are made for you.

    Why do you insist on championing your mission to "Eradicate Islam" here?

    Perhaps you hope to enlist Ex-Muslims to your cause to "Eradicate Islam"?

    Well here's one Ex-Muslim who will support you. His name is SunDriedAtheist and he left a message for me and Tommy on Youtube:

    Hassan you are a disgrace to the growing ex-muslim community. I am sorry to say that. You seem more knowledgable in Islam than I, then why do you still not have any problem with Islam? Are you happy for muslims to take over your host country, who have been generous enough to let you in from your islamic hell-hole so that they can impose the barbaci shariah laws there? Talk about being ungrateful!!! Loser.

    ...I have zero respect and zero tolerance for god believing scumbags. If you have no problem with these child abusing monsters, then you are not a good person. You need to reevaluate your moral responsibilty. You fail miserably in assessing the damage religious people inflict upon children, especially their own. Death is too good for these god believing stinking bastards. These god believing monsters need to be neutralised, if for no other reason, then for polluting our gene pool. These braindead intellectually stunted god believers are a disgrace to human intelligence and achievement...
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #62 - January 26, 2009, 01:21 PM

    Isn't sundriedathiest our own metaphysical naturalist?
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #63 - January 26, 2009, 02:00 PM

    On the subject of Taqqiya:
    I want islam in its current form eradicated


    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    I will defend the right of anyone to believe in whatever religion they want, even if I think their beliefs absurd.

    Cut the crap old man. This is about you stating that I am practicing Taqqiya. This is an accusation that you threw apparently very lightly. Stick to the subject of the accusation you made.


    On the Subject of peaceful Interpretations:
    I'm sure that as someone who spends so much time in the cause of "Eradicating Islam" you cannot be unaware of what the ugly consequences of that would inevitably be. Nor does your saying; "In it's current form" make it less odious.

    Why would you assume I am unaware? I am attacking the letter of the religion. I want anyone who sticks to the letter of any religion to be exposed and ridiculed. And islam in its current form, expects (enforces) from its followers to follow it by the letter. Am I still practicing taqqiya old man?

    It is just another way of saying you refuse to tolerate the many peaceful interpretations of Islam that most Muslims currently live their lives by.

    Just because someone made an interpretation, it does not mean that interpretation has any hold on reality. Worse, that the interpretation will have peaceful consequences. If I see an interpretation that makes sense, I will embrace it.

    If I see a peaceful interpretation where an imam states that the sword verses can only applied if a khalifa walks the earth, then I will sh1t a brick in my pants because I have family that live close to couple khalifas. I will sh1t another brick in my pants when people tell me that this is a peaceful interpretation.

    It will sadden me even more, because the muslim or the ex-muslim who told me that interpretation, probably has a khalifa near by and that according to such an interpretation, the sword verses could be activated on him. (sword verses had been activated on muslims. a lot)

    But then I have to deal with you, to come back 2 weeks later, after the debate is over, and express your opinion that I did not accept a peaceful interpretation. If you want to join the ranks of the peaceful interpretation police, then I suggest you join the debate when it happens. I even suggest you come up with one peaceful interpretation since you seem to know and embrace so many. Like I asked you many times in the past.

    You want to eradicate Islam - in it's current form - eradicating the extremist & violent interpretations with the many peaceful interpretations; The moderate interpretations, the Sufi interpretations, the Esoteric and and philosophical interpretations, the millions of 'personal' interpretations.

    They all need to be stamped out lest the evil of Islam rear it's ugly head again.

    What I don't understand is why are you here?

    There are already sites dedicated to "Eradicating" Islam.

    Faithfreedom and Jihadchat are made for you.

    Why do you insist on championing your mission to "Eradicate Islam" here?

    Perhaps you hope to enlist Ex-Muslims to your cause to "Eradicate Islam"?

    Well here's one Ex-Muslim who will support you. His name is SunDriedAtheist and he left a message for me and Tommy on Youtube:

    Hassan you are a disgrace to the growing ex-muslim community. I am sorry to say that. You seem more knowledgable in Islam than I, then why do you still not have any problem with Islam? Are you happy for muslims to take over your host country, who have been generous enough to let you in from your islamic hell-hole so that they can impose the barbaci shariah laws there? Talk about being ungrateful!!! Loser.

    ...I have zero respect and zero tolerance for god believing scumbags. If you have no problem with these child abusing monsters, then you are not a good person. You need to reevaluate your moral responsibilty. You fail miserably in assessing the damage religious people inflict upon children, especially their own. Death is too good for these god believing stinking bastards. These god believing monsters need to be neutralised, if for no other reason, then for polluting our gene pool. These braindead intellectually stunted god believers are a disgrace to human intelligence and achievement...


    What do you want Hassan. If you are going to accept anyone's opinion and accept that everyone is free to believe, then why do you have a problem with sundriedatheist's interpretation or whatever of his many multinicks in the past.

    But I am not SundriedAtheist. And I do not hold his views.

    Again I apologize if I am not the villain you want me to be.

    And there are people opposed to islam and would like islam eradicated who are not villains. They exist, and they are good people that you happen to not agree with.

    Your opposition to islam is on an intellectual level. Those good people are opposed to islam on a survival level. I believe their needs are much more pertinent than yours.

    And guess what, a lot of them are ex-muslims.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #64 - January 26, 2009, 02:09 PM

    Isn't sundriedathiest our own metaphysical naturalist?

    Yes and I remember a funny story about him. When I first joined FFI, he had this avatar with a picture of a piece of sh1t, with Allah and the koran on it. Believing it was inappropriate, I held a vote to see if we should get rid of it. I had to go through pages and pages of tedious debate with Radagast, and I do not know if any of you had to go through that exercise. An exercise that cost me couple dozens of hours. But I guess, according to Hassan, I should hang around with SundriedAtheist.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #65 - January 26, 2009, 02:37 PM

    Isn't sundriedathiest our own metaphysical naturalist?

    Yes and I remember a funny story about him. When I first joined FFI, he had this avatar with a picture of a piece of sh1t, with Allah and the koran on it. Believing it was inappropriate, I held a vote to see if we should get rid of it. I had to go through pages and pages of tedious debate with Radagast, and I do not know if any of you had to go through that exercise. An exercise that cost me couple dozens of hours. But I guess, according to Hassan, I should hang around with SundriedAtheist.



    That was someone else wasn't it?  guy from the UK IIRC.  wacko

    Name started with a T, I;m sure of it.  Tequila nic wasn't it?

    Sundried atheist was also taqqiya tactician.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #66 - January 26, 2009, 02:43 PM

    I will never understand why do ppl like multi-nicking  Huh?
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #67 - January 26, 2009, 02:47 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    Well, eradicating Islam is not as horrible as you think. A world without Islam would be a much better place.

    Maybe "eradication" is too strong a word. How about "dissolution?" Through social progress and the spread of freedom of speech, Islam will gradually collapse. Do you think that's such a bad thing, Hassan?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #68 - January 26, 2009, 03:28 PM

    Isn't sundriedathiest our own metaphysical naturalist?

    Yes and I remember a funny story about him. When I first joined FFI, he had this avatar with a picture of a piece of sh1t, with Allah and the koran on it. Believing it was inappropriate, I held a vote to see if we should get rid of it. I had to go through pages and pages of tedious debate with Radagast, and I do not know if any of you had to go through that exercise. An exercise that cost me couple dozens of hours. But I guess, according to Hassan, I should hang around with SundriedAtheist.



    That was someone else wasn't it?  guy from the UK IIRC.  wacko

    Name started with a T, I;m sure of it.  Tequila nic wasn't it?

    Sundried atheist was also taqqiya tactician.

    AFAIK Tequila changed to taqqiya tactician,

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #69 - January 26, 2009, 03:40 PM

    Isn't sundriedathiest our own metaphysical naturalist?

    Yes and I remember a funny story about him. When I first joined FFI, he had this avatar with a picture of a piece of sh1t, with Allah and the koran on it. Believing it was inappropriate, I held a vote to see if we should get rid of it. I had to go through pages and pages of tedious debate with Radagast, and I do not know if any of you had to go through that exercise. An exercise that cost me couple dozens of hours. But I guess, according to Hassan, I should hang around with SundriedAtheist.



    That was someone else wasn't it?  guy from the UK IIRC.  wacko

    Name started with a T, I;m sure of it.  Tequila nic wasn't it?

    Sundried atheist was also taqqiya tactician.

    AFAIK Tequila changed to taqqiya tactician,

    I thought these were all the same people although I really remember him from his TT days.  I thought that was when he got more and more militant (and misogynistic).

    I had a few discussions with Radagast but I generally quite enjoyed them.  He's pretty persistent though.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #70 - January 26, 2009, 04:50 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    Well, eradicating Islam is not as horrible as you think. A world without Islam would be a much better place.

    Maybe "eradication" is too strong a word. How about "dissolution?" Through social progress and the spread of freedom of speech, Islam will gradually collapse. Do you think that's such a bad thing, Hassan?

    If I put it like that Zaepon, he would accuse me of practicing my own taqqiya.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #71 - January 26, 2009, 05:43 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    Well, eradicating Islam is not as horrible as you think. A world without Islam would be a much better place.

    Maybe "eradication" is too strong a word. How about "dissolution?" Through social progress and the spread of freedom of speech, Islam will gradually collapse. Do you think that's such a bad thing, Hassan?


    No, I don't think that would be such a bad thing. If something is allowed to happen in a peaceful and natural way through a healthy, free and 'educated' society then of course I would be glad to see people realize that Islam (and Christianity) is nonsense.

    I have to say I doubt such a thing will ever happen as I think people will always cling to religion, no matter what.

    I also wonder whether it might actually be good to have such religions and superstitious beliefs even if they are baseless myths and absurd fantasies. Perhaps they not only challenge human beings to see past them, but perhaps they also challenge us to find civilized and enlightened ways to interact with our fellow human beings, despite these things. Perhaps in some way they can help us be better people or ensure that reason and logic themselves do not become a religion.

    But what really concerns me about the efforts to "Eradicate" Islam is that it will only create more violence. Muslims are already becoming subject to attacks, abuse and killed by Far-Right Nationalist vigilantes. This is a direct result of the hatred towards Muslims whipped up by painting Islam with one brush and insisting that the extreme violent forms of Islam is the real face of Islam and that nice or moderate Muslims are only pretending because they all believe in Taqiyya etc etc... It is just what the Islamic extremists want too and they will help fuel ever more violence and hatred, Muslims against non-Muslims and vica versa.

    If I am going to open my mouth and criticize Islam and participate in a forum like this - the last thing I want to do is contribute to violence against my family, loved ones and all the many innocent people who will suffer at the hands of those trying to "Eradicate Islam".

    And it goes without saying that I feel uncomfortable about sharing a forum with anyone who does.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #72 - January 26, 2009, 06:21 PM


    AFAIK Tequila changed to taqqiya tactician,


    No, tequila nic and taqqiya tactician were active at the same tme and I spoke to both by email.  Tequila nic was a regular guy from the UK, and Taqqiya tactictian lived abroad and was an ex muslim unlike tequila nic.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #73 - January 26, 2009, 06:24 PM


    If I am going to open my mouth and criticize Islam and participate in a forum like this - the last thing I want to do is contribute to violence against my family, loved ones and all the many innocent people who will suffer at the hands of those trying to "Eradicate Islam".




    Well Hass, you could pull away again and leave it to people like ali sina to give the "ex muslim" perspective and really rile them up, or you could pull up your sleeves and keep presenting a balanced view.

    Think about brucepig, who said that he was falling for all the fear mongering stuff but then ran across your stuff and saw how different it was.  That's yet another good thing you are contributing to.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #74 - January 26, 2009, 06:25 PM

    TT was a misogynistic nutcase. Remember when he talked about beating up that Australian women who tried to sue the cat meat sheik?

    He had issues, to put it mildly.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #75 - January 26, 2009, 06:37 PM

    TT was a misogynistic nutcase. Remember when he talked about beating up that Australian women who tried to sue the cat meat sheik?

    He had issues, to put it mildly.


    I remember, he also wanted to imprison all "faith heads" in correctional camps.  It's so hard sometimes to believe that there are indeed people like that out there in the real world.  wacko

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #76 - January 26, 2009, 06:41 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    Muslims are already becoming subject to attacks, abuse and killed by Far-Right Nationalist vigilantes.

    Hassan,

    I live in a Muslim country and all the fascists in my country are Muslims. The same is true in every single Muslim-majority country. When I say "eradicate Islam" I mean a global struggle against Islamic government and religion by apostates, heterodox minorities and sympathisers --mostly peaceful but violent if absolutely necessary.  What I want may seem utopian by current standards, but the rise of technology will make it possible in perhaps a hundred years. If we are lucky, future generations may be mobilised for this cause, just like people in Islamic countries were rallied around communist ideals, even though communism rejects all kinds of religion.

    Communism had many other concerns, of course, most of which I reject --but a global apostasy or reform movement will focus on the exclusive eradication/weakening of Islam. Time will come that no amount of censorship will be able to stop the free circulation of ideas and commodity. Even if such a global movement does not occur, human society will be so radically different in three or four centuries that Islam will simply fall apart, like the discarded shell of a growing insect.

    Muslims living in the West have little importance in this scheme, to be honest, apart from perhaps providing some financial and ideological assistance, or the first momentum of this movement. It is difficult to create a happy and natural society under the shadow of Islam. Without dealing with Islam first, it is impossible to create an open society.    

    Quote from: Hassan
    I also wonder whether it might actually be good to have such religions and superstitious beliefs even if they are baseless myths and absurd fantasies.

    Even if humanity needs religions somehow, Islam is the worst choice. Creating religions is easier than you think. If we really need religions we can create or embrace religions better than Islam. Why not Bahai faith, for example? It endorses full gender equality to begin with.

    My top priority is to weaken Islam as much as possible. For this reason I have sympathy for all the critics of Islam in the Islamic world, atheists, feminists and religious minorities, secularists and reformists, homosexuals, socialists and anarchists. Islamic governments have to build elaborate cultural and social prisons to enslave their people. We only have to blow these prisons up.

    Am I too radical for your taste? It does not matter. The complete dissolution of Islam is easier than you think. It will be an important step towards greater happiness and willpower for all humans. Islam is not worthy of existence.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #77 - January 26, 2009, 07:43 PM

    Hassan. So your accusation that I practice taqqiya, is debunked. You made the accusation and kept running away Three times now. So What is your next accusation.

    Edit:
    It had been a consistent habit of yours, to make an accusation, then run away from supporting it, even apologize for it. And then come back weeks later thinking you had made a valid judgement.

    From now on, any accusation you make, you have to stand and defend or else keep it to yourself.


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #78 - January 26, 2009, 08:06 PM

    Hassan. So your accusation that I practice taqqiya, is debunked


    I am far from convinced of that, Baal.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #79 - January 26, 2009, 09:52 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    Well, eradicating Islam is not as horrible as you think. A world without Islam would be a much better place.

    Maybe "eradication" is too strong a word. How about "dissolution?" Through social progress and the spread of freedom of speech, Islam will gradually collapse. Do you think that's such a bad thing, Hassan?

    Maybe you mean eradicate the very harsh aspects of Islam? Sure a world without Islam and all other hateful and irrational religions and doctrines would be better but I don't see how this could be done effectively without another stupid and scary belief arising from someplace else.

    a.) Islam mustn't be the only target as this will make Muslims more defensive and angry, thus making them more religious
    b.) You can't punish people for what they believe in. You can try and educate (not brainwash) them but that will be one long ass process.
    c.) I don't think religion is ever going to go away.

    And yeah, eradicate is too strong of a word IMO.

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #80 - January 26, 2009, 10:22 PM

    TT was a misogynistic nutcase.

    And Hassan think I should hang around with him.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #81 - January 26, 2009, 10:26 PM

    Hassan. So your accusation that I practice taqqiya, is debunked


    I am far from convinced of that, Baal.

    You ran away by distracting the subject Three times in this thread alone. Like you ran away the times before.

    Now what was your next accusation.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #82 - January 26, 2009, 10:42 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    This is why you and I will always be on opposite sides, Baal.

    Well, eradicating Islam is not as horrible as you think. A world without Islam would be a much better place.

    Maybe "eradication" is too strong a word. How about "dissolution?" Through social progress and the spread of freedom of speech, Islam will gradually collapse. Do you think that's such a bad thing, Hassan?

    Maybe you mean eradicate the very harsh aspects of Islam? Sure a world without Islam and all other hateful and irrational religions and doctrines would be better but I don't see how this could be done effectively without another stupid and scary belief arising from someplace else.

    a.) Islam mustn't be the only target as this will make Muslims more defensive and angry, thus making them more religious
    b.) You can't punish people for what they believe in. You can try and educate (not brainwash) them but that will be one long ass process.
    c.) I don't think religion is ever going to go away.

    And yeah, eradicate is too strong of a word IMO.

    Point a, agreed.

    Point b, agreed. We do not punish people for what they believe in, we punish them for their action. Most western countries will punish people for spreading hate and fear, and that is still based on action not on belief. Also the West made a special

    Point c, Religions will exist, and they will adapt to us and to our needs like they always did. Thousands of religions came and went, they filled a need and were thrown out (kicking and screaming) when their time came.

    Some religions adapted, some died, some died without a bang, some died under the shadow of enemy swords.

    Regardless I believe that islam in its current form will not continue to exist. And I will work on making sure it does not remain in its current form.

    Islam will reform. Now it is my opinion that islam will not survive a reform, that islam will die if it attempts to reform. The source material is too useless for us today. Some people hold the opinion that islam, will survive its reform. Either way, I do not care about what happens to islam after it reforms. Either way, whether it survives the reform or not, I will be happy about the end result.




    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #83 - January 27, 2009, 08:17 AM

    What challenge?

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #84 - January 27, 2009, 08:19 AM

    What challenge?

    Maybe if you read some of the posts and not just the thread title you would know.

    Does anyone know of any good examples of people throughout history who have tried to reach the Quran's challenge of asking others to imitate even 3 lines of it? I know there have been some who died for it but I'm having trouble finding them. Anybody know any which are well backed up facts?


    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #85 - January 27, 2009, 09:34 AM

    Point a, agreed.

    Point b, agreed. We do not punish people for what they believe in, we punish them for their action. Most western countries will punish people for spreading hate and fear, and that is still based on action not on belief. Also the West made a special

    Point c, Religions will exist, and they will adapt to us and to our needs like they always did. Thousands of religions came and went, they filled a need and were thrown out (kicking and screaming) when their time came.

    Some religions adapted, some died, some died without a bang, some died under the shadow of enemy swords.

    Regardless I believe that islam in its current form will not continue to exist. And I will work on making sure it does not remain in its current form.

    Islam will reform. Now it is my opinion that islam will not survive a reform, that islam will die if it attempts to reform. The source material is too useless for us today. Some people hold the opinion that islam, will survive its reform. Either way, I do not care about what happens to islam after it reforms. Either way, whether it survives the reform or not, I will be happy about the end result.

    Wouldn't an Islamic reform just end up splitting the conservatives from the reformists? I don't think many of the religious muslims would be too happy with people trying to adapt the eternal word of God.
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #86 - January 27, 2009, 08:55 PM

    I don't think many of the religious muslims would be too happy with people trying to adapt the eternal word of God.

    Me neither. I think it was ingenious of Mo to declare himself the last prophet and to call Islam the last and true word from God. Pure genius.

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #87 - January 27, 2009, 09:04 PM

    I don't think many of the religious muslims would be too happy with people trying to adapt the eternal word of God.

    Me neither. I think it was ingenious of Mo to declare himself the last prophet and to call Islam the last and true word from God. Pure genius.


    I remember a hadith about the previous religions being like a brick wall with one hole. Islam was the last brick that made the wall complete.

  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #88 - January 27, 2009, 10:21 PM

    I don't think many of the religious muslims would be too happy with people trying to adapt the eternal word of God.

    Me neither. I think it was ingenious of Mo to declare himself the last prophet and to call Islam the last and true word from God. Pure genius.


    I remember a hadith about the previous religions being like a brick wall with one hole. Islam was the last brick that made the wall complete.




    Well it was not an unique idea at the time. There was probably a good handfull who tried to pulle the same argument, but the two we know of is Mani and Muhammad. Mani for that matter was critical of Moses and Jesus because they did not write down their material, and it then got corrupted. Therefore Mani himself decided to write down his prophetic knowledge, to preserve it (how could he know that the sassanid emperors would not be completely persuaded by him, and that the only government which would take up his teaching, was not to be fruitful, the Uyghurs)
  • Re: People who have tried to meet the Quran's challenge?
     Reply #89 - February 13, 2009, 04:50 PM

    Quote from: Iggy
    Maybe you mean eradicate the very harsh aspects of Islam? Sure a world without Islam and all other hateful and irrational religions and doctrines would be better but I don't see how this could be done effectively without another stupid and scary belief arising from someplace else.

    Islam thrives on a central myth and that myth is that the Quran is the morally perfect, eternal word of God. The destruction of this myth is the death of Islam. Everything else is of secondary importance.

    Quote from: Iggy
    a.) Islam mustn't be the only target as this will make Muslims more defensive and angry, thus making them more religious
    b.) You can't punish people for what they believe in. You can try and educate (not brainwash) them but that will be one long ass process.
    c.) I don't think religion is ever going to go away.

    A. No other religion is quite as backward as Islam today. At any rate, the existence of other backward ideologies or religions cannot justify the existence of Islam.
    B. I don't think Muslims should be punished for their religion, so what's the point? I have absolutely zero sympathy for Muslims who object to the freedoms of others, though --namely women, GLBT folk and ethno-religious minorities. Some kind of reaction to their oppressive actions is absolutely necessary in my opinion, ranging from ridicule to the violent overthrow of their political insitutions.
    C. Religions rise and fall. New religions replace old religions. The death of Islam is long overdue.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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