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 Topic: My G/F & I (Update)

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  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • My G/F & I (Update)
     OP - January 21, 2009, 10:01 AM
    Quote
    Well, I finally told her about my apostasy...to make a long story short:


    - Initially she was so sure that we were going to break up....etc. (in fact she said it clearly)


    - She's been very confused, sad...crying....etc.


    - But finally she chose to try to persuade me, or vice versa....and surprisingly she accepted to apostatize , IF I convince her and show her solid arguments;


    I've debated many Muslims, Arabs and non, knowledgeable and non, but this time around, I'm really worried, and confused, I really love my girl, and wanna help her outta Islam so that we can be 2gether 4eva.  dance


    Anyway I posted here, cuz I need your help, motivation, and anything.....and I'll keep ya updated thru this thread;


    she said she wanted to have time in order to read more about Islam before I start questioning, etc.... wacko


    thx in advance  Smiley


    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/weaponstestingrange/index.php/topic,3475.0.html
    ================

    As of Jan/09;

    she has rejected all Hadithds and Sunnah, she's a very strong believer in God BTW. But now she only accepts Quran.

    Good news ha?




    Here's more:

    she thinks now that many verses were written by humans for earthly reasons (like jihad verses, women...etc), she challenges me tho to find a religious scripture with less errors/gaps.


    Now I temporarily stopped debating/pushing for I don't want to rush her to critically study Quran, I think she needs sometime after the 'state of shock' resulted from Hadiths/Sunnah/Islamic books...etc


    My next argument will be:

    ~ God is almighty, absolute power, the wise the powerful etc, how come he comes up with such incomplete work? ~


    I think she'd repeat what monotheists like to say about that:

    "It's God will wisdom, to test ppl's belief in him....blah blah blah."



    PeAcE oUt Wink
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #1 - January 21, 2009, 10:10 AM
    Nice going! Smiley Good luck with it.
    Quote from: Emerald on January 21, 2009, 10:01 AM
    Here's more:

    she thinks now that many verses were written by humans for earthly reasons (like jihad verses, women...etc), she challenges me tho to find a religious scripture with less errors/gaps.

    Just wanted to add that this is an irrelevant strawman, having the least amount of errors/gaps does not make it true.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #2 - January 21, 2009, 10:55 AM
    So hang on: she's given up trying to defend hadith and sunnah. Got that bit. When you say "she thinks now that many verses were written by humans for earthly reasons (like jihad verses, women...etc)" do you mean she is also discarding Quranic verses?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #3 - January 21, 2009, 12:07 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on January 21, 2009, 10:55 AM
    When you say "she thinks now that many verses were written by humans for earthly reasons (like jihad verses, women...etc)" do you mean she is also discarding Quranic verses?

    ===========

    discarding these specific verses.
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #4 - January 21, 2009, 12:21 PM
    w00_hoo! So the Quran is not perfect and has not been preserved uncorrupted as Allah's word then?
    Does she understand the full implications yet? I'm assuming the woman is not stupid.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #5 - January 21, 2009, 01:15 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on January 21, 2009, 12:21 PM
    w00_hoo! So the Quran is not perfect and has not been preserved uncorrupted as Allah's word then?
    Does she understand the full implications yet? I'm assuming the woman is not stupid.

    ============

    She'd say somethin' like:

    "It's God will and wisdom, to test ppl's belief in him....blah blah blah."


    Her mind is awfully confused regarding corruption and God....etc;

    she believes God had it done perfectly, men had been adding and changing,


    and yes, I do think that she does not FULLY understand the full implications,


    she once said that God allowed such corruption to test ppl, just like when he allows E.quakes, disasters.... Huh?


    I admit that sometimes I'm helpless to counterattack such opinions, bcuz these opinions are seriously ill, maybe I'm wrong... wacko


    Remember that she constantly asks for a substitute for Quran, she thought that only the Bible could be the qualified as it's the only book sent by the Abrahamic God besides Quran,

    I do think that the Bible is like Quran, and no better by all means....(except when talking about NT)


    & I do believe that I can investigate some better books (like Bahai's')
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #6 - January 21, 2009, 01:30 PM
    Tell her Humanism is a replacement for God?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #7 - January 21, 2009, 01:56 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on January 21, 2009, 01:30 PM
    Tell her Humanism is a replacement for God?

    ==============

    She's for a supreme creator, I don't mind, as long as she doesnt follow a prejudice/violent/hateful doctrine;

    I promised her to thoroughly investigate other faiths and travel the world to explore..


    I've never debated her deeply about God/atheism, but I doubt she ever did b4.   
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #8 - January 21, 2009, 02:44 PM
    Good work Emerald.  It's pretty much what I did to myself, I stumbled across eye opening accounts of islam, discarded the hadiths and the sunnah, and then discarded the quran completely when I read the article of the origins of the quran (in the resource centre here).  But that happened really rapidly, a matter of weeks, and then my belief in a need for a god was challenged next.

    It's definately the avenue I take when talking to my siblings.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #9 - January 21, 2009, 02:55 PM
    Once she is all the way down to a supreme creator, then the question of who created the creator is her next step.

    You are not negating the possibility of a creator, you are only putting forward the possibility that complex humans and/or their complex creator managed to exist from nothing.

    The only issue is such paradigm shifts take a very long time.

    I am curious, what holds her to islam. What are the benefits she perceives to herself.

    You mention she is attached to a replacement. Is it possible that she thinks her society will collapse without a book?
    * Perhaps worried that whatever non-book denomination she takes, will be too weak to withstand the onslaught of another organized religion?
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #10 - January 21, 2009, 02:58 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on January 21, 2009, 02:44 PM
    Good work Emerald.  It's pretty much what I did to myself, I stumbled across eye opening accounts of islam, discarded the hadiths and the sunnah, and then discarded the quran completely when I read the article of the origins of the quran (in the resource centre here).  But that happened really rapidly, a matter of weeks, and then my belief in a need for a god was challenged next.

    ========

    thx  Smiley


    Quote
    It's definately the avenue I take when talking to my siblings.

    Works well?
    ========

    regarding the weeks you took to reject the whole thing, i think they'll be several months, maybe years with her;

    family, friends, and the whole atmosphere in this country play role in delaying the results, I think.
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #11 - January 21, 2009, 03:33 PM
    Quote from: Baal on January 21, 2009, 02:55 PM
    I am curious, what holds her to islam. What are the benefits she perceives to herself.

    You mention she is attached to a replacement. Is it possible that she thinks her society will collapse without a book?
    * Perhaps worried that whatever non-book denomination she takes, will be too weak to withstand the onslaught of another organized religion?

    ==============

    I think she fears rejecting Islam as a whole cuz she was brought up as a Muslim, she's kinda attached to the Muslim God cuz she built some kind of a spiritual relationship with him,


    but after being shocked by hadiths and some Quranic verses and their tafsirs, she started seeking other Abrahaimic books (in a challenging way).


    errmmm,,, she firmly wants a book that contains all sets of morals and humanistic laws, this Allah is always a problem tho;

    for ex., if you bring her any book, (XZY), that encompasses all good stuff from Quran, NT, OT, philosophical works; and tell her that a group of people follow this book and believe in the creator, and they call themselves, say, ermmmm,

    Emeraldists  Cheesy

    she won't hesitate a lot to start trying reading thru it, and eventually embracing the thing,


    that's what I think, could be wrong.  Huh?
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #12 - January 21, 2009, 03:45 PM
    She believes in belief. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #13 - January 21, 2009, 03:53 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 21, 2009, 03:45 PM
    She believes in belief. 

    ============

    Good 1,

    I think she does  Afro
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #14 - January 21, 2009, 11:20 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 21, 2009, 03:45 PM
    She believes in belief. 

    So what religious group/belief system does that fall into? Undefined theist?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #15 - January 22, 2009, 08:57 AM
    Buy her the book, Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars. Try to get her to read this book. Women love this book. She will go from start to end and she will not be able to drop the book. After she is done. Bring it to her attention how come doctor Gray was able to write such an interesting and informative book. How he was able to pack so much life wisdom per page, that she was unable to drop from hand till she finishes it. Yet when it comes to so many religious books, the material is boring, and very uninformative.

    Who did god really talk to and inspire?
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #16 - January 22, 2009, 09:07 AM
    Its not just women Baal, I liked that book too. 

    I read it when I was splitting up from my ex, and found we were both guilty of many of his points.

    It was a little repetitve at times, and also crazy (like the bit where it recommends men to build log fires for their women), but I found his overall point remained broadly true - Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

    far away hug
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #17 - January 22, 2009, 09:13 AM
    That book is very misleading, it fails to take into account women with masculine traits and men with feminine traits, it basically lumps each gender together with no variation and no insight into people's differing personality types.

    It fails.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #18 - January 22, 2009, 10:37 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on January 22, 2009, 09:13 AM
    That book is very misleading, it fails to take into account women with masculine traits and men with feminine traits, it basically lumps each gender together with no variation and no insight into people's differing personality types.

    It fails.

    I found the book to address the male ideal and the female ideal. People who share gender ideals are often quite obvious. And with them it should not be too hard to pick and choose which ideals to apply. The book is still very interesting to read and is much more interesting then any religious book i ever had the misfortune of reading.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #19 - January 22, 2009, 10:43 AM
    It might be more interesting because it makes you think, but it still fails on an epic level as far as I am concerned.

    What ideal do you mean?  the ideal woman in a man's mind, or the ideal woman in a woman's mind? and vice versa?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #20 - January 22, 2009, 03:51 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on January 22, 2009, 10:43 AM
    It might be more interesting because it makes you think, but it still fails on an epic level as far as I am concerned.

    What ideal do you mean?  the ideal woman in a man's mind, or the ideal woman in a woman's mind? and vice versa?


    The ideal of how a woman would like to be treated and how a man would like to be treated. I can not speak for when he talked about the needs of the women. But for men, he nailed our needs pretty damn accurate.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #21 - January 22, 2009, 04:04 PM
    The book did not only help me from a relationship perspective, but also explained the joys to be had from being a metrosexual man.  So now I swing both ways, depending on the environment and my mood.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #22 - January 22, 2009, 04:14 PM
    Quote from: Baal on January 22, 2009, 03:51 PM

    The ideal of how a woman would like to be treated and how a man would like to be treated. I can not speak for when he talked about the needs of the women. But for men, he nailed our needs pretty damn accurate.



    No, maybe from your perspective he hit the nail on the head in regards to how men view an ideal woman, but I know men who found themselves identifying with the womens description.

    The book is geared towards explaining the typical ESTJ man and ISFJ woman, man in cave, woman all needy of emotions, only men want fixer upper advice, women just want to rant.

    Those are wrong generalisations, some women have caves, some women want the advice ONLY if it comes with an action plan, which would typically be a J orientated woman.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #23 - January 22, 2009, 05:27 PM
    Quote
    Women love this book.


    I've never come across a woman that loved that book.  Men seem to love it, women just see it as the usual old pigeon holes dressed up in fancy new fangled psycho babble.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #24 - January 22, 2009, 05:32 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 22, 2009, 04:04 PM
    So now I swing both ways, depending on the environment and my mood.

    You mean from being metrosexual to being pretty careless? Or swing both ways sexually?
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #25 - January 22, 2009, 05:50 PM
    Nothing to do with sexuality, more to do with your personality type as a man. usually quite sensitive, like clothes and spending,  enjoy  conversation & not really into sport.  I find they dont normally get on well well with alpha type males..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #26 - January 22, 2009, 06:39 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 22, 2009, 05:50 PM
    Nothing to do with sexuality, more to do with your personality type as a man. usually quite sensitive, like clothes and spending,  enjoy  conversation & not really into sport.  I find they dont normally get on well well with alpha type males..


    I'd be so interested to see your mbti results.  Tongue
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #27 - January 22, 2009, 06:50 PM
    mbti?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #28 - January 22, 2009, 06:53 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 22, 2009, 06:50 PM
    mbti?


    Why let me introduce you: http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/

    Some people say it's bollocks, I say it's spot on, as do all the members of 3 other forums I frequent.  dance
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My G/F & I (Update)
     Reply #29 - January 22, 2009, 07:15 PM
    Heh, I am INFJ, rarest, even more rare in males. grin12 I think it fits.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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