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 Topic: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie

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  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     OP - February 02, 2009, 05:19 PM
    Interesting discussion.

    I think most people here are aware that I used to be a teacher at Islamia School and one might think I have strong views on the subject, but although I am now no-longer in favour of faith schools in general, I am unable to get terribly irate about them so long as they are moderate, and adhere to the National Curriculum.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nx7eb82n_o
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #1 - February 02, 2009, 05:44 PM
    I find the problem with them is however good they are, they promote & cultivate the "them and us" mentality amongst young children at a vulnerable stage in their lives.
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #2 - February 02, 2009, 05:56 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 02, 2009, 05:44 PM
    I find the problem with them is however good they are, they promote & cultivate the "them and us" mentality amongst young children at a vulnerable stage in their lives.


    Absolutely and I agree with the comments Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie made.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #3 - February 02, 2009, 06:03 PM
    I think they both pawned the religionists.
    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #4 - February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    Hassan,

    This is an interesting topic....and a confusing one...because I am biased. As far as Christianity, I believe in separation of church and state. A state funded school ought to be a secular school...and a Christian school ought not receive state funding, IMO.

    But an Islamic school, I would want closely watched to make sure it is promoting no violence.

    I know it isn't fair to have one standard for other faiths and another for Islam...and I know that a "Christian" school may become a front for a twisted militant cult that cherry-picks bible scriptures. It has happened. Look at 'Jesus Camp'. That is actually worse than militant Islam because it would be for Christians like me to be persecuted by those that call themselves "Christian", than it would to be persecuted by a Muslim.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #5 - February 02, 2009, 06:20 PM
    Do I need to fix that last sentence?
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #6 - February 02, 2009, 06:38 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:20 PM
    Do I need to fix that last sentence?


    I don't know, but I find just making your mind up and just doing it or not, instead of thinking about  it out loud  in a post saves a lot of time.  Smiley


    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #7 - February 02, 2009, 06:39 PM
    I think I forgot to put a full stop at the end of that last sentence, I'm not sure what to do. Any suggestions? Smiley
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #8 - February 02, 2009, 07:00 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    Hassan,

    This is an interesting topic....and a confusing one...because I am biased. As far as Christianity, I believe in separation of church and state. A state funded school ought to be a secular school...and a Christian school ought not receive state funding, IMO.

    But an Islamic school, I would want closely watched to make sure it is promoting no violence.

    I know it isn't fair to have one standard for other faiths and another for Islam...and I know that a "Christian" school may become a front for a twisted militant cult that cherry-picks bible scriptures. It has happened. Look at 'Jesus Camp'. That is actually worse than militant Islam because it would be for Christians like me to be persecuted by those that call themselves "Christian", than it would to be persecuted by a Muslim.


    Hi Shaneequa - long time no see.

    My feeling now is that we would be better off with no religious schools at all, but if they are allowed they must all follow the national curriculum and should NOT be allowed to opt out of anything that other schools do or teach. For example I don't believe any school in the UK should be teaching "Creationism" as an alternative to Evolution.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #9 - February 02, 2009, 07:12 PM
    Even as someone who worked in a religious school I found this quite shocking.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mn1UsDJBYkA

    It is also interesting to note this is Tony Blair's legacy. He funded Christian fundamentalist schools like this and also Islamia School. There were no state funded Muslim schools until Blair first funded Islamia School in 1997.

  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #10 - February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #11 - February 02, 2009, 07:20 PM
    Where is Ifthikar when you need him ?
    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #12 - February 02, 2009, 07:22 PM
    That's fucking insane. No way should they be allowed to get away with this rubbish. It's a total perversion of the word "education".

    ETA: I'm referring to the contents of the video in Reply#9.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #13 - February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #14 - February 02, 2009, 07:29 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.


    What do you think about the Christian Fundamentalist School that teaches Creationism is right and Evolution is wrong?

    It is in the second video I posted.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #15 - February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.

    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #16 - February 02, 2009, 07:41 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.


    Is that what Shaneequa thinks then? That it should be?
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #17 - February 02, 2009, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.

    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.


    Yes. Teaching creationism as science should be banned in all public schools.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #18 - February 02, 2009, 07:58 PM
    .. and private schools?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #19 - February 02, 2009, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.

    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.


    Yes. Teaching creationism as science should be banned in all public schools.

    Shan, you agreed with Hass that not even private schools should be able to opt out of the national curriculum, as long as that curriculum was based on academic standards.
     
    Now you are saying the exact opposite. Which one do you stand by?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #20 - February 02, 2009, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I see both Creation and the Evolution Theories as "historical" sciences. Historical sciences and "applied" sciences are two different things to be. Applied sciences belong on the national curriculum and historical sciences do not. A public school may teach Evolution. It ought not teach Creation. A private school must reach or surpass the standards of "applied" sciences only.



    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.

    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.


    Yes. Teaching creationism as science should be banned in all public schools.

    Shan, you agreed with Hass that not even private schools should be able to opt out of the national curriculum, as long as that curriculum was based on academic standards.
     
    Now you are saying the exact opposite. Which one do you stand by?



    I see both Creation and the Evolution Theories as "historical" sciences. Historical sciences and "applied" sciences are two different things to be. Applied sciences belong on the national curriculum and historical sciences do not. A public school may teach Evolution. It ought not teach Creation. A private school must reach or surpass the standards of "applied" sciences only.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #21 - February 02, 2009, 08:14 PM
    You haven't replied.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #22 - February 02, 2009, 08:17 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 08:14 PM
    You haven't replied.


    I don't know what happened, but it's modified. My reply is there now.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #23 - February 02, 2009, 08:22 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I see both Creation and the Evolution Theories as "historical" sciences. Historical sciences and "applied" sciences are two different things to be. Applied sciences belong on the national curriculum and historical sciences do not. A public school may teach Evolution. It ought not teach Creation. A private school must reach or surpass the standards of "applied" sciences only.



    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.

    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.


    Yes. Teaching creationism as science should be banned in all public schools.

    Shan, you agreed with Hass that not even private schools should be able to opt out of the national curriculum, as long as that curriculum was based on academic standards.
     
    Now you are saying the exact opposite. Which one do you stand by?



    I see both Creation and the Evolution Theories as "historical" sciences. Historical sciences and "applied" sciences are two different things to be. Applied sciences belong on the national curriculum and historical sciences do not. A public school may teach Evolution. It ought not teach Creation. A private school must reach or surpass the standards of "applied" sciences only.

    Bullshit. Evolutionary theory is an applied science. It has awesome amounts of real world data backing it and can be tested in practice. "Creation theory" is neither historical nor science in any meaningful usage of the terms.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #24 - February 02, 2009, 08:23 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 02, 2009, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 06:09 PM
    A state funded school ought to be a secular school...


    btw I agree with this, but I also believe that a privately funded school should not be able to opt out of the National Curriculum.


    I see both Creation and the Evolution Theories as "historical" sciences. Historical sciences and "applied" sciences are two different things to be. Applied sciences belong on the national curriculum and historical sciences do not. A public school may teach Evolution. It ought not teach Creation. A private school must reach or surpass the standards of "applied" sciences only.



    I agree, as long as the standards are based on academics and nothing else.

    Good. So that means teaching creationism as science should be banned in all schools. Thank you for your contribution.


    Yes. Teaching creationism as science should be banned in all public schools.

    Shan, you agreed with Hass that not even private schools should be able to opt out of the national curriculum, as long as that curriculum was based on academic standards.
     
    Now you are saying the exact opposite. Which one do you stand by?



    I see both Creation and the Evolution Theories as "historical" sciences. Historical sciences and "applied" sciences are two different things to be. Applied sciences belong on the national curriculum and historical sciences do not. A public school may teach Evolution. It ought not teach Creation. A private school must reach or surpass the standards of "applied" sciences only.

    Have a look at this shaneequa and tell me if you think inventing new medicines to destroy viruses and bacilli is a historical or an applied science.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #25 - February 02, 2009, 08:34 PM
    I do not care if the applied sciences come from the theory of evolution or the theory of creation. Even creationists believe in micro-evolution. Both schools of sciences have contributed in the area of practical science.

    If I were in need of a neuro-surgeon, it would make no difference to me if he were an evolutionist or a creationist. All that would matter is how well he understands neuro-surgery. Although, a creationist may value human life more than an evolutionist. I said "may"....so please note, I'm not making a blanket statement. An evolutionist may value human life more than some creationists. So....there!
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #26 - February 02, 2009, 08:37 PM
    Quote from: Shaneequa on February 02, 2009, 08:34 PM
    I do not care if the applied sciences come from the theory of evolution or the theory of creation. Even creationists believe in micro-evolution. Both schools of sciences have contributed in the area of practical science.

    No. They have not. There have been no contributions to practical science from creationism. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #27 - February 02, 2009, 08:38 PM
    Oh and you're still avoiding the question about schools and the national curriculum.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #28 - February 02, 2009, 08:39 PM
    Creationism is most assuredly not a Science in any way , shape or form. It's  mere belief. You're still dodging the only issue here.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Faith Schools Debate with Richard Dawkins and Maryam Namazie
     Reply #29 - February 02, 2009, 08:44 PM
    Oh and Shaneeqa, if you wish to use the old "even creationists believe in micro-evolution" dodge then please explain the barrier between that and macro-evolution.

    I don't mean baldly assert that there is a barrier. I mean explain how it works. Surely you are aware that what you call macro-evolution is simply the accumulation of "micro" changes.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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