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 Topic: Your view on Right Hand Possess

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  • Your view on Right Hand Possess
     OP - February 16, 2009, 02:31 PM
    I've came across the verse regarding right hand possess, so to speak, the quran is telling us that the captor are allowed to marry the captive. I really don't know whether to accept this or not (kinda confuse wacko) because rather than the captor rape her, might as well he married her right? I mean, she's helpless. But, on the other hand, would you really want to marry the person who had killed either your husband or your people? Which is more honourable, marry your captive or give her some money to support herself and leave her alone? Also, i would like to know your opinion on Allah giving the green light on the captor marrying the captive. Here's the verses:

    004.023
    YUSUFALI: Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-

    004.024
    YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

    004.025
    YUSUFALI: If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful    .

    I've also realised that other translators of the quran does not include the word in brackets, i.e. (For marriage). I would like to know from the perspective of those who know arabic is that, In arabic for the above verses, do you really have to insert the words in brackets('cause i don't think it is necessary)? Because if it is unnecessary, then sex could be involve and that is immoral. That is all. Thank you.

  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #1 - February 16, 2009, 02:37 PM
    You are allowed to rape your captives. Of course muslims will sugar coat it by saying it can only be consensual but I don't recall anyone being a slave by consent.

    Mohammed married a slave (Safiyah). Her husband was tortured and killed by Mohammed. She had sex with him the next day. I'm more than inclined to believe it was rape. From what I have read it did not seem she had any other choice. Either be a wife for the prophet or someone elses concubine.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #2 - February 16, 2009, 04:20 PM
    You do not have to marry your captive women in order to have sex with them. The following indicates that.

    Bukhari 62:137 - We got female captives in the war booty and we used to withdraw before ejaculation (avoid pregnancy) to ensure better price for their ransom. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "There is no need because each soul that is destined to exist will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

    Sunan Abu-Da'ud  2:2691 Salamah was given a captive girl and had not yet untied her garment. Muhammad took the woman from Salamah and gave her to the Meccans to ransom Muslim prisoners.

    Q 4:24 And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those captives whom your right hands possess.

    Q.23:5-6 - (Successful are the believers) who abstain from sex, except with their wives or those whom their right hands possess, for they are free from blame.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #3 - February 16, 2009, 04:41 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on February 16, 2009, 02:37 PM
    Mohammed married a slave (Safiyah). Her husband was tortured and killed by Mohammed. She had sex with him the next day. I'm more than inclined to believe it was rape. From what I have read it did not seem she had any other choice. Either be a wife for the prophet or someone elses concubine.


    Thats' not the only woman he "married" in this way. Two of his other victims were Raihana bint Amr and Juwariyyah.

    Raihana too was "married" to the Prophet, or became his concubine after watching her father and husband killed.

    Rape is sex when the woman or much more rarely the man doesn't consent, or they're forced to consent under compulsion, right li? So if it is after marriage or without marriage, does it matter?Would any woman in her right mind want to marry or have sex with the murderer of her husband and father? Course, it is immoral.

    Best would be to let these women go. Muslims give the excuse that they'd be "helpless" with their men dead, and so they'd be. So they could've been given some money and allowed to go, or given some employment like embroidery, or selling vegetables etc.

    At worst, they could've been kept in the homes of Mohammed's soldiers as servants.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #4 - February 16, 2009, 05:16 PM
    Quote from: li on February 16, 2009, 02:31 PM
    i would like to know your opinion on Allah giving the green light on the captor marrying the captive.


    I think it is appalling. Incidentally I just read a similar verse in the Old Testament.

    I am reading my grandmothers St James version of the Bible and although I always knew that Muhammad ripped bits off - especially the OT - I am amazed at how many similarities there are.

    It seems quite clear to me that Muhammad got over half the Qur'an from the Jews of Medina and the rest from the odd Christian monk in a cave or a wandering soothsayer as well as Arab myths and legends...
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #5 - February 17, 2009, 03:24 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 16, 2009, 05:16 PM
    Quote from: li on February 16, 2009, 02:31 PM
    i would like to know your opinion on Allah giving the green light on the captor marrying the captive.

    I think it is appalling. Incidentally I just read a similar verse in the Old Testament.
    I am reading my grandmothers St James version of the Bible and although I always knew that Muhammad ripped bits off - especially the OT - I am amazed at how many similarities there are.


    You're right Hassan, the OT and Koran are indeed very similar, supposedly books from God dictated to Prophets', when both the God doing the dictating and their Prophets stray very far from the modern or even from  universal, eternal standards of virtue.

    However, although Moses gave his soldiers the green light to capture and "know" virgins, either he personally didn't "know" any women this way, or the OT had the good sense not to reveal that to us!:P
     
     So Moses ordered rape, but from the information available, it seems he wasn't a rapist himself! But anyway, ordering rape is just as appalling IMO.  Angry

    Quote from: Hassan on February 16, 2009, 05:16 PM

    It seems quite clear to me that Muhammad got over half the Qur'an from the Jews of Medina and the rest from the odd Christian monk in a cave or a wandering soothsayer as well as Arab myths and legends...


    I don't know how much Mohammed was influenced from Christianity, his teachings as well as conduct was most un Christlike! Whatever I make of Jesus' story, he was a great ethical improvement from the OT morality, as well the Israeli society of his time. Before him, Jews could divorce their wives simply after handing her a get, Jesus allowed divorce only for adultery, forbade so much as lusting after a woman, saved a woman from stoning-even as a non believer, I'm forced to concede that Jesus did some pretty impressive stuff...


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #6 - February 17, 2009, 04:15 AM
    so muslims are right after all: the quran and the ot had the same author! Tongue

    but joking apart, right hand's possessions equate to slavery... but like someone else said so before, they can argue that it'll only be with consent... and that's a textually correct argument.

    a better argument against them is to use the good ol' abraham lincoln one: he fought an entire civil war to end slavery, in which around 800,000 people died... even after that he felt the cause was worth it... these were his ideals... so how is that his ideals have a higher moral ground than the infallible and perfect god's?

    i've never heard an answer to that - ever. Plenty of "replies" and retorts though... but this argument successfully takes away the cultural relativism argument because it challenges "god's ideals" instead of human culture or the prophet's behavior.

    TRASH - The Rationalist Apostate Society for Humanity!

    Take a look for a few laughs and thoughtful discussions with a wide range of audience - fellow apostates, Muslims, sufis, non-Muslims, Christians, etc

    http://thetrashbin.wordpress.com
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #7 - February 18, 2009, 02:51 PM
    Thanks for the reply guys, and THANK YOU a.gazali! grin12 for providing me with the quranic verses below: (here's the whole verse 1-6, i somehow decided to give the shakir's version  grin12)


    023.001
    SHAKIR: Successful indeed are the believers,

    023.002
    SHAKIR: Who are humble in their prayers,

    023.003
    SHAKIR: And who keep aloof from what is vain,

    023.004
    SHAKIR: And who are givers of poor-rate,

    023.005
    SHAKIR: And who guard their private parts,

    023.006
    SHAKIR: Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,
     

    The verse is of course about, the believers.  The quranic verse that i have given says that muslims can marry a captive, and while the verse that a.gazali simply says that you can have sex with your wives and your captive. Seems to be that from the perspective of the "Religion of God", the captive is indeed halal  which is immoral and I simply have no idea how the muslims are going to defend islam when were being given the verse.

     
    Quote from: Rashna
    Rape is sex when the woman or much more rarely the man doesn't consent, or they're forced to consent under compulsion, right li? So if it is after marriage or without marriage, does it matter?Would any woman in her right mind want to marry or have sex with the murderer of her husband and father? Course, it is immoral.

    Best would be to let these women go. Muslims give the excuse that they'd be "helpless" with their men dead, and so they'd be. So they could've been given some money and allowed to go, or given some employment like embroidery, or selling vegetables etc.

    Agreed. yes

    Quote from: li
    i would like to know your opinion on Allah giving the green light on the captor marrying the captive.
    Quote from: Hassan
    I think it is appalling...


     Same here, and i somehow think that Allah is somehow trying to legalised wrong-doing like, allowing muslims to have sex with their captive, and that proves that Allah, i think, could be a satan in disguise or an alter-ego of Muhammad and no decent man, when truly understands the islamic view on the right hand possess, can accept it.  I wonder, what other wrong-doing hath Allah legalised? Huh?

    p.s.: Islam is getting immoral.
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #8 - February 18, 2009, 02:57 PM
    Quote from: li
    Same here, and i somehow think that Allah is somehow trying to legalised wrong-doing like, allowing muslims to have sex with their captive, and that proves that Allah, i think, could be a satan in disguise or an alter-ego of Muhammad and no decent man, when truly understands the islamic view on the right hand possess, can accept it.  I wonder, what other wrong-doing hath Allah legalised? Huh?

    From what I know the other Abrahamic faiths aren't much better. If a God does exist I doubt he has attempted to communicate with us unless he is not as perfect as humans seem to think he is.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #9 - February 18, 2009, 03:09 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies
    ...If a God does exist I doubt he has attempted to communicate with us unless he is not as perfect as humans seem to think he is.

     I don't think there's an If, i think that goD (pronounce backwards, is Dog  Cheesy) does not exist.
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #10 - February 18, 2009, 03:17 PM
    Quote from: li on February 18, 2009, 03:09 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies
    ...If a God does exist I doubt he has attempted to communicate with us unless he is not as perfect as humans seem to think he is.

     I don't think there's an If, i think that goD (pronounce backwards, is Dog  Cheesy) does not exist.

    I'm inclined to agree with you there Smiley
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #11 - February 18, 2009, 03:22 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on February 18, 2009, 02:57 PM
    From what I know the other Abrahamic faiths aren't much better. If a God does exist I doubt he has attempted to communicate with us unless he is not as perfect as humans seem to think he is.


    The use of women after war is similar in the Old Testament. But not mentioned in the New Testament. Christianity did sanitise much of the unsavoury aspects, but unfortunately maintained the OT to justify the divinity of Jesus.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #12 - February 18, 2009, 03:29 PM
    Quote from: li on February 18, 2009, 02:51 PM
      I wonder, what other wrong-doing hath Allah legalised? Huh?

    p.s.: Islam is getting immoral.


    Just a few more:

    - The legalisation of sharing booty from those that are conquered.
    - The beating of wives
    - Slavery
    - Killing of Pagans (unless they accept invitation to Islam)
    - Taxing of the People of the Book
    - Elimination of freedom of belief
    - Apostasy a capital offence
    - Devaluing the worth of women
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #13 - February 18, 2009, 05:53 PM
    Quote from: li on February 18, 2009, 02:51 PM
    Allah is somehow trying to legalised wrong-doing like, allowing muslims to have sex with their captive, and that proves that Allah, i think, could be a satan in disguise or an alter-ego of Muhammad and no decent man, when truly understands the islamic view on the right hand possess, can accept it.  I wonder, what other wrong-doing hath Allah legalised? Huh?

    p.s.: Islam is getting immoral.


    Allah also legalized some stuff "specifically" for Mohammed.

    These are:
    1) Right to have more than four wives.
    2) Right to marry his daughter in law Zainab, after he saw her semi naked in order to make adoption illegal for Muslims. Shocked
    3) Right to have any woman who he takes a fancy to.

    Thats' why his child bride Ayesha remarked, "It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your every desire." Sahih Muslim.

    Allah was truly partial to his Prophet, giving him stuff he denied his other male followers. Tch,Tch. razz
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #14 - February 18, 2009, 05:57 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 18, 2009, 05:53 PM
    2) Right to marry his daughter in law Zainab, after he saw her semi naked in order to make adoption illegal for Muslims.

    Rashna - What's this one, I have not come across it before?
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  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #15 - February 18, 2009, 06:02 PM
    Aisha had a sharp tongue and was quite honest. And being young, beautiful and favourite she took good liberties.
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #16 - February 18, 2009, 06:39 PM
    I think she was too young to be patient/polite with her tongue and too naive to lie convincingly.

    That's what happens when you marry a 6 year old.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #17 - February 18, 2009, 07:00 PM
     Cheesy
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  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #18 - February 19, 2009, 02:22 AM
    Have you come across the story of Mohammed's marriage to Zaynab? The rest of the story comes from the Tabari, a quite esteemed, if not most esteemed historian.Tabari says Mohammed went to Zaynab's house, saw her in a loose chemise and fell in love\lusted after her. He then married his daughter in law and claimed that it was to stop the custom of adoption.

    Tabari is esteemed amongst the Bohras and other Shias, while Ibn Ishaq's sira was considered a great source on the Prophet till some time back by all Muslims. Now Muslims claim only the Bukhari and Muslim hadiths are believable. Thinking hard they're more and more disgusted by the rest of the stories.

    The problem is that Bukhari and Muslim have enough sordid stuff.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #19 - February 19, 2009, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: li on February 18, 2009, 02:51 PM
    and that proves that Allah, i think, could be an alter-ego of Muhammad


    Allah seems suspiciously like an alter ego, or else a God all too interested in the most mundane aspects of his Prophet's life, stooping himself to warning Mohammed's guests not to stay too long at Mohammed's house or speak to his wives without screens between them, as such behaviour "annoys" the Prophet.
     Phwoar When Almighty Allah is concerned about the length of time guests spend at Mohammed's house, He seems less and less like Almighty God, and more and more like Alter Ego What say?

    YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah's sight an enormity.
    PICKTHAL: O Ye who believe! Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless permission be granted you. But if ye are invited, enter, and, when your meal is ended, then disperse. Linger not for conversation. Lo! that would cause annoyance to the Prophet, and he would be shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy of the truth. And when ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not for you to cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him. Lo! that in Allah's sight would be an enormity.
    SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #20 - February 19, 2009, 05:56 PM
    Allah was a bouncer of Mo's harem  Cheesy
    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #21 - February 19, 2009, 06:17 PM
    Quote from: Anti-Jihadist on February 19, 2009, 05:56 PM
    Allah was a bouncer of Mo's harem  Cheesy


    They had a pretty sweet deal going on, Muhammad would provide the suckers to fight for Allah and Allah in return would do whatever Mo wanted.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #22 - February 19, 2009, 06:29 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on February 19, 2009, 06:17 PM
    Quote from: Anti-Jihadist on February 19, 2009, 05:56 PM
    Allah was a bouncer of Mo's harem  Cheesy


    They had a pretty sweet deal going on, Muhammad would provide the suckers to fight for Allah and Allah in return would do whatever Mo wanted.


    Mo & Al, the dastly duo
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  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #23 - February 20, 2009, 04:47 AM
    Rashna, could you give me the reference to the verse? and somebody please tell the mullahs to delete the verse 'coz it makes Allah look like an idiot. In islam, one can only be called a believer if one believes in both muhammad and allah. the two go hand in hand like gay couple. Cheesy You see, in islam, Allah is a God but he can sent you to go astray if he wanted to and muhammad loves the rest of the humanity so much that he killed he conducted genocide.
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #24 - February 20, 2009, 08:53 AM
    the original Bonnie & Clyde
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  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #25 - February 20, 2009, 10:59 AM
    Quote from: li on February 20, 2009, 04:47 AM
    Rashna, could you give me the reference to the verse?


    Of course li! How careless of me not to have mentioned that, its Quran 033.053
    Allah tells believers to be circumspect about barging into Mohammed's house or lingering too long for chatting after a meal as that annoys Mohammed. Mohammed is shy to tell this to his followers, so Allah gladly speaks up for him, those two are the best of buddies,Allah is quick to warn believers against causing Mohammed the slightest annoyance. Grin

    Quote from: li on February 20, 2009, 04:47 AM
    somebody please tell the mullahs to delete the verse 'coz it makes Allah look like an idiot.


    If only being idiotic was the worst of Allah and Muhammad's crimes. The biggest  problem isn't that they're idiotic although they're certainly idiotic too, but that they're violent and bloodthirsty. furious

    Quote from: li on February 20, 2009, 04:47 AM
    In islam, one can only be called a believer if one believes in both muhammad and allah. the two go hand in hand like gay couple.


    I love the way you expressed it li, you've got it just right! great
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #26 - February 20, 2009, 11:10 AM
    Tongue
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #27 - February 20, 2009, 12:53 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 20, 2009, 10:59 AM
    Quote from: li on February 20, 2009, 04:47 AM
    In islam, one can only be called a believer if one believes in both muhammad and allah. the two go hand in hand like gay couple.

    I love the way you expressed it li, you've got it just right! great

    Not sure if you could call them a gay couple, as far as I know God is sexless.  If homosexual is same sex, hetrosexual involves opposite sexes, then what is a relationship between a man and a sexless partner?
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  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #28 - February 20, 2009, 01:12 PM
    Quote from: Islame
    Not sure if you could call them a gay couple, as far as I know God is sexless.  If homosexual is same sex, hetrosexual involves opposite sexes, then what is a relationship between a man and a sexless partner?

     Thinking hard ...unisexual? sex involves only himself? or Godsexual, i.e. sex involving god... or even better, since allah is the only god in islam....why not....Allahsexual. grin12

    Quote from: Rashna
    Of course li! How careless of me not to have mentioned that, its Quran 033.053...

     Tahnks Rashna Smiley


    Quote from: li
    In islam, one can only be called a believer if one believes in both muhammad and allah. the two go hand in hand like gay couple.


    Quote from: Rashna
    I love the way you expressed it li, you've got it just right!


     
     grin12
  • Re: Your view on Right Hand Possess
     Reply #29 - February 20, 2009, 01:21 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 20, 2009, 12:53 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 20, 2009, 10:59 AM
    Quote from: li on February 20, 2009, 04:47 AM
    In islam, one can only be called a believer if one believes in both muhammad and allah. the two go hand in hand like gay couple.

    I love the way you expressed it li, you've got it just right! great

    Not sure if you could call them a gay couple, as far as I know God is sexless.  If homosexual is same sex, hetrosexual involves opposite sexes, then what is a relationship between a man and a sexless partner?

     

    Well, God is a bit too interested in Mohammed's sex life so there does seem to be an unsavoury relation between them. Mohammed's got explicit permission from Allah to go to any of his wives, in any order. Allah seems to be vicariously involved in this.


    033.051
    YUSUFALI: Thou mayest defer (the turn of) any of them that thou pleasest, and thou mayest receive any thou pleasest: and there is no blame on thee if thou invite one whose (turn) thou hadst set aside. This were nigher to the cooling of their eyes, the prevention of their grief, and their satisfaction - that of all of them - with that which thou hast to give them: and Allah knows (all) that is in your hearts: and Allah is All-Knowing, Most Forbearing.
    PICKTHAL: Thou canst defer whom thou wilt of them and receive unto thee whom thou wilt, and whomsoever thou desirest of those whom thou hast set aside (temporarily), it is no sin for thee (to receive her again); that is better; that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be pleased with what thou givest them. Allah knoweth what is in your hearts (O men), and Allah is ever Forgiving, Clement.
    SHAKIR: You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased, all of them with what you give them, and Allah knows what is in your hearts; and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.

     "Allahsexual"  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Hilarious li!
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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