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 Topic: Palestinian Media Watch

 (Read 7813 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Palestinian Media Watch
     OP - February 19, 2009, 04:55 AM

    Hi All,

    This is my first post, so let me first say what I'm about.  I'm not an ex-Muslim, I'm an ex-Christian atheist, and I came here from the link at the top of talkrational.org (another freethinker website).

    I'm also politically very leftist, and very strongly oppose the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

    With that said, I was wondering if there is anyone here who speaks Arabic and can help me out with something.  I came across some videos of Palestinian children's shows that were subtitled and distributed over the internet by a group called Palestinian Media Watch.  I read a bit about this organization and it is extremely pro-Israel (not surprisingly).

    So, on another discussion board there was a long discussion about these videos, with some people saying that given the group the distributes them the subtitles are probably lies.  Others argued that they are probably accurate.  Personally, I doubt they are outright lies, although I have little doubt that the translations are sensationalized in every little way they can be short of lying.

    Here are the videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4&eurl=http://www.revleft.com/vb/disturbing-hamas-childrens-t101958/index.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8w7_P8wZ0&eurl=http://www.revleft.com/vb/disturbing-hamas-childrens-t101958/index.html

    Can anyone here who speaks Arabic let me know if, and exactly how and where these subtitle translations are inaccurate?

    Just to be clear again, even if they are perfectly accurate translations I'm not going to be scandalized.  Although I think it is unfortunate that children are raised in such an atmosphere, I think it is kind of inevitable under a brutal occupation.

    But I would still like to find out how (in)accurate the subtitles really are.

    Thanks!
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #1 - February 19, 2009, 05:42 AM

    Hello Lewis. This was very painful for me to watch but thanx for posting it anyways. The translation is completely and totally unbiased in the first video. I will finish the Second one later.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #2 - February 19, 2009, 06:20 AM

    Welcome to the forum, the second one is very accurate.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #3 - February 19, 2009, 06:30 AM

    The first one is very accurate too, I can't see how can anybody claim that it has been mistranslated.

    I remember when this happened, it was like a year or two ago and I think that it was real because it got a lot of attention from the world media.

    Here are some news sources that can be relied on:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6257594.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6637389.stm

    Remember, some people are ready to go as far as claim that the channel transmission has been hacked by the Israelis to stage and broadcast these videos to destroy their true image and reputation, so you shouldn't bother too much about it.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #4 - February 19, 2009, 08:25 AM

    Thanks guys.

    Can I ask, without offending you, what your opinions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are?  Are you at least critical of Israel (even if you might not necessarily like Hamas)?

    The people who believe the translations to be inaccurate will probably want to know...it would be helpful to have an answer for them, especially if that answer is that your outlook is generally pro-Palestinian.

    Thanks again.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #5 - February 19, 2009, 09:13 AM

    The people who believe the translations to be inaccurate will probably want to know...it would be helpful to have an answer for them, especially if that answer is that your outlook is generally pro-Palestinian.

    Baal is half Palestinian himself (though Christian/ex-Christian).
    Better to read through threads on Palestine and make up your own mind:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4124.0
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4189.0
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4213.0
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #6 - February 19, 2009, 11:12 AM

    Thanks guys.

    Can I ask, without offending you, what your opinions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are?  Are you at least critical of Israel (even if you might not necessarily like Hamas)?
    The people who believe the translations to be inaccurate will probably want to know...it would be helpful to have an answer for them, especially if that answer is that your outlook is generally pro-Palestinian.

    Thanks again.


    Hi and welcome to our forum B.S. Lewis. My answer to your query depends upon what you mean by "critical of Israel." I acknowledge that there was an injustice to the people of Palestine 60 years ago, when Israel was created.

    As for Israel's right to exist, I'm about as critical of that as I am of Pakistan's right to exist. The difference is that Pakistan was created out of the Indian sub continent due to Muslim demands, Israel due to Jewish demands. Millions more people were dead or displaced due to the formation of Muslim Pakistan than Israel.

    The Muslims who want to wipe Israel off the map and get back all their land, need to give back land in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. Obviously, they don't think along those lines.

    They have double standards regarding land they steal from other faiths, compared to when land is stolen from them.

    I do support a two state solution, but its difficult to make peace with an enemy who doesn't want a two state solution, whose ultimate aim is to wipe you off.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #7 - February 19, 2009, 11:44 AM

    The Muslims who want to wipe Israel off the map and get back all their land, need to give back land in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. Obviously, they don't think along those lines.

    They have double standards regarding land they steal from other faiths, compared to when land is stolen from them.



    With that logic, Muslims need to give back Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey, Afghanistan, Morocco, Libya, etc, etc and even Mecca and all return to Medina.

    That should be fun.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #8 - February 19, 2009, 12:16 PM

    The Muslims who want to wipe Israel off the map and get back all their land, need to give back land in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. Obviously, they don't think along those lines.

    They have double standards regarding land they steal from other faiths, compared to when land is stolen from them.



    With that logic, Muslims need to give back Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey, Afghanistan, Morocco, Libya, etc, etc and even Mecca and all return to Medina.

    That should be fun.


    Good point!  whistling2

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #9 - February 19, 2009, 05:41 PM

    Thanks guys.

    Can I ask, without offending you, what your opinions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are?  Are you at least critical of Israel (even if you might not necessarily like Hamas)?
    The people who believe the translations to be inaccurate will probably want to know...it would be helpful to have an answer for them, especially if that answer is that your outlook is generally pro-Palestinian.

    Thanks again.


    Hi and welcome to our forum B.S. Lewis. My answer to your query depends upon what you mean by "critical of Israel." I acknowledge that there was an injustice to the people of Palestine 60 years ago, when Israel was created.

    As for Israel's right to exist, I'm about as critical of that as I am of Pakistan's right to exist. The difference is that Pakistan was created out of the Indian sub continent due to Muslim demands, Israel due to Jewish demands. Millions more people were dead or displaced due to the formation of Muslim Pakistan than Israel.

    The Muslims who want to wipe Israel off the map and get back all their land, need to give back land in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. Obviously, they don't think along those lines.

    They have double standards regarding land they steal from other faiths, compared to when land is stolen from them.

    I do support a two state solution, but its difficult to make peace with an enemy who doesn't want a two state solution, whose ultimate aim is to wipe you off.

    Hi Rashna,

    I really just meant critical of its actions.  That's as far as I go, personally.  I have no strong opinion on the formation of Israel as a state.

    But obviously I don't agree with the silly equivalence created in the Western media between a few Qassam rockets, which hardly hit anything or kill anyone, and massive bombing campaigns that kill hundreds, carried out by the *state* (not independent party or group, like Hamas) of Israel.





    Thanks.  I had looked through some of the more recent threads ("Righties Come to Power in Israel") but these are more directly relevant.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #10 - February 19, 2009, 05:59 PM

    Quote

    But obviously I don't agree with the silly equivalence created in the Western media between a few Qassam rockets, which hardly hit anything or kill anyone,



    You might think differently if you had to run into a bomb shelter every other day for the last few years and close primary schools that your kids go to.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #11 - February 19, 2009, 06:08 PM

    Thanks guys.

    Can I ask, without offending you, what your opinions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are?  Are you at least critical of Israel (even if you might not necessarily like Hamas)?

    The people who believe the translations to be inaccurate will probably want to know...it would be helpful to have an answer for them, especially if that answer is that your outlook is generally pro-Palestinian.

    Thanks again.

    On balance, I would probably say it leans towards being pro-palestinian, but there is a broad range of opinion

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #12 - February 19, 2009, 06:13 PM

    "With that logic, Muslims need to give back Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey, Afghanistan, Morocco, Libya, etc, etc and even Mecca and all return to Medina."

    I'm game, in fact this is my long term plan. dance whistling2


    Anyway, I think that both sides need to reasses their situations and decide on a better plan, the odd ceasefire/bombing campaign every now and again is never going to work.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #13 - February 19, 2009, 07:54 PM

    Thanks guys.

    Can I ask, without offending you, what your opinions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are?  Are you at least critical of Israel (even if you might not necessarily like Hamas)?
    The people who believe the translations to be inaccurate will probably want to know...it would be helpful to have an answer for them, especially if that answer is that your outlook is generally pro-Palestinian.

    Thanks again.


    Hi and welcome to our forum B.S. Lewis. My answer to your query depends upon what you mean by "critical of Israel." I acknowledge that there was an injustice to the people of Palestine 60 years ago, when Israel was created.

    As for Israel's right to exist, I'm about as critical of that as I am of Pakistan's right to exist. The difference is that Pakistan was created out of the Indian sub continent due to Muslim demands, Israel due to Jewish demands. Millions more people were dead or displaced due to the formation of Muslim Pakistan than Israel.

    The Muslims who want to wipe Israel off the map and get back all their land, need to give back land in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. Obviously, they don't think along those lines.

    They have double standards regarding land they steal from other faiths, compared to when land is stolen from them.

    I do support a two state solution, but its difficult to make peace with an enemy who doesn't want a two state solution, whose ultimate aim is to wipe you off.

    Hi Rashna,

    I really just meant critical of its actions.  That's as far as I go, personally.  I have no strong opinion on the formation of Israel as a state.

    But obviously I don't agree with the silly equivalence created in the Western media between a few Qassam rockets, which hardly hit anything or kill anyone, and massive bombing campaigns that kill hundreds, carried out by the *state* (not independent party or group, like Hamas) of Israel.





    Thanks.  I had looked through some of the more recent threads ("Righties Come to Power in Israel") but these are more directly relevant.

    Let's keep the discussion to the last couple centuries. Who should the land Palestine & Israel is claiming, be returned to? Who do you believe was the last owner of the land?


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #14 - February 19, 2009, 09:15 PM

    I really just meant critical of its actions.  That's as far as I go, personally.  I have no strong opinion on the formation of Israel as a state.

    But obviously I don't agree with the silly equivalence created in the Western media between a few Qassam rockets, which hardly hit anything or kill anyone, and massive bombing campaigns that kill hundreds, carried out by the *state* (not independent party or group, like Hamas) of Israel.

    Well, tbh the lack of effectiveness of the Qassams would be something that would annoy Hamas mightily. If they could get their hands on more effective weapons I have no doubt they would use them.

    However, leaving hypotheticals aside, your claim about state vs parties is flawed. Bear in mind that Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. In other words, they are the state. They are as much "the state" as the current Israeli government is.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #15 - February 19, 2009, 10:16 PM

    Lewis,

    Would you consider posting a brief bio about why you left Christianity, etc? The poor subforum is empty.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=17.0

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #16 - February 19, 2009, 10:20 PM

    Baal, I'm going to stick to posting in this thread, but I wanted to comment on your statement in another thread that leftists are all pro-Hamas.  This is a generalization to the point of simply being nonsense.  I, for one, have no love for Hamas.

    I've known other radical leftists to call Hamas "scum".  The whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a very divisive issue among people of all political persuasions.  I wish you wouldn't make false generalizations.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #17 - February 19, 2009, 10:25 PM

    Lewis,

    Would you consider posting a brief bio about why you left Christianity, etc? The poor subforum is empty.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=17.0


    I'll see if I can think of something.  It wasn't very sudden and/or memorable, unfortunately.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #18 - February 19, 2009, 10:32 PM

    Lewis,

    Would you consider posting a brief bio about why you left Christianity, etc? The poor subforum is empty.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=17.0


    Sure, I'll see if I can think of something.  It wasn't very sudden and/or memorable, unfortunately.

    It would be a nice way of introducing yourself I guess, if you are planning to stick around. We had many unfruitful Israel/Palestine debates before and I doubt anybody is willing to repeat the same arguments again and again.

    That, and welcome to our forum.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #19 - February 19, 2009, 10:41 PM

    ..and a belated Hi from me too.

    Sorry, I sometimes get too carried away with debate, and forget the basics!

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #20 - February 20, 2009, 05:26 AM

    Baal, I'm going to stick to posting in this thread, but I wanted to comment on your statement in another thread that leftists are all pro-Hamas.  This is a generalization to the point of simply being nonsense.  I, for one, have no love for Hamas.

    I've known other radical leftists to call Hamas "scum".  The whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a very divisive issue among people of all political persuasions.  I wish you wouldn't make false generalizations.

    Since more than the last few years, leftists were highly against corporatism, a noble cause. However in denouncing the evils of corporatism, they allied themselves with some very bad bedfellows. Now that the leftists are looking around to gage where they are, they are finding that they have to take a lot of strides to kick some evil bastards from their beds.

    I will not quickly forgive and forget the leftists for allying themselves with some of the worst aspects of humanity (not just from islam), just because today, they are prepared to apologize and release some good movies like (religiousity) or produce some good TV shows (Colbert Report).


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #21 - February 20, 2009, 11:56 AM

    I really just meant critical of its actions.  That's as far as I go, personally.  I have no strong opinion on the formation of Israel as a state.


    Its nice to hear that you have no strong opinion on the formation of Israel as a state. A significant number of the world's Muslims, many leftists and the Hamas would like to see the state of Israel wiped off the map,as they feel it had no right to be formed in the first place. IMO, Israel had as much if not much more right to be formed as Pakistan. Jews demanded a separate homeland after the Holocaust, Muslims in the Indian sub continent demanded a separate homeland as they felt that they'd be submerged or ill treated in the new Indian nation. Hajji Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, even co operated with Hitler during the Holocaust and aspired to build his own concentration camp for Jews in Palestine after the War, although I don't hold all Palestinians responsible for his actions.


    But obviously I don't agree with the silly equivalence created in the Western media between a few Qassam rockets, which hardly hit anything or kill anyone, and massive bombing campaigns that kill hundreds, carried out by the *state* (not independent party or group, like Hamas) of Israel.



    Those poor quality rockets are simply due to lack of better military technology. Is military weakness a sign of moral superiority? And as has been said by other posters, Hamas are the state, the elected government, just like Israel's Government. Why are you expecting Israel to demonstrate a higher standard of morality than Hamas? Leftists often judge Muslim by far more lenient standards compared to those non Muslims, who Muslims regularly conflict with.

    The Palestinians are responsible in large measure for their own troubles. They elected a group which wasn't interested in peace or even a two state solution, and whose avowed ambition was to wipe Israel off the map. 60 years have passed since the formation of Israel, yet Muslims nurse the grievances of losing a tiny piece of land. Even the Government of Iran aspires to wipe Israel off the map. What would U.S.A. do if Canada had elected a Government which sought to wipe them off? The Palestinians who were forced to leave the newly created states of Israel could've settled in other Arab nations, educated their children and had loftier ambitions for their children rather than training them to bomb Jews.The millions of non Muslims who left Pakistan did just that. Now millions of  Bangladeshi and Pakistani illegal immigrants come to settle in India.

    The elephant in the room is Islamic extremism, which believes that its perfectly allright for them to steal lands, yet its a grievious injustice for other people to steal any land away from them.

    As long as Muslims aren't able to forget old grievances and try to build a better life by taking their destiny into their own hands, instead of wallowing in self pity and manufacturing poor quality rockets if they lack better technology, others will retaliate.And if others have the capability to retaliate with superior technology, they'll certainly use the superior technology.

    Israel can't manufacture poor quality rockets and start a mock fight with poor quality rockets, can it? Nor can it unilaterally disarm without putting its own citizens at risk.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #22 - February 20, 2009, 06:23 PM

    Baal, I'm going to stick to posting in this thread, but I wanted to comment on your statement in another thread that leftists are all pro-Hamas.  This is a generalization to the point of simply being nonsense.  I, for one, have no love for Hamas.

    I've known other radical leftists to call Hamas "scum".  The whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a very divisive issue among people of all political persuasions.  I wish you wouldn't make false generalizations.

    Since more than the last few years, leftists were highly against corporatism, a noble cause. However in denouncing the evils of corporatism, they allied themselves with some very bad bedfellows. Now that the leftists are looking around to gage where they are, they are finding that they have to take a lot of strides to kick some evil bastards from their beds.

    I will not quickly forgive and forget the leftists for allying themselves with some of the worst aspects of humanity (not just from islam), just because today, they are prepared to apologize and release some good movies like (religiousity) or produce some good TV shows (Colbert Report).




    What can I say?  Once more, false generalizations.

    (As an aside, I don't think we are exactly on the same page if you are calling The Colbert Report 'the left'  wacko)
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #23 - February 20, 2009, 06:55 PM

    Hi Lewis,

    Only just saw this post - First of all welcome - secondly others have attested to the accuracy of the videos so I don't need to say any more.

    I am a supporter of the Palestinians rights and believe strongly that Israel has acted wrongfully many times over the past years and continues to do so - causing the death and suffering of countless Palestinians.

    However I will not defend the extremists - particularly the Islamists - whose aim is to destroy Israel.

    Israel is a reality and I support a two state solution that allows both Israelis and Palestinians live in peace and security - without any extreme religious bullshit.

    It goes without saying that many of the Palestinian extremists would be happy to execute most of us here.

    So while I support the Palestinians in general - I am naturally very much against the extreme Islamists amongst them.

  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #24 - February 20, 2009, 06:58 PM

    Baal, I'm going to stick to posting in this thread, but I wanted to comment on your statement in another thread that leftists are all pro-Hamas.  This is a generalization to the point of simply being nonsense.  I, for one, have no love for Hamas.

    I've known other radical leftists to call Hamas "scum".  The whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a very divisive issue among people of all political persuasions.  I wish you wouldn't make false generalizations.

    Since more than the last few years, leftists were highly against corporatism, a noble cause. However in denouncing the evils of corporatism, they allied themselves with some very bad bedfellows. Now that the leftists are looking around to gage where they are, they are finding that they have to take a lot of strides to kick some evil bastards from their beds.

    I will not quickly forgive and forget the leftists for allying themselves with some of the worst aspects of humanity (not just from islam), just because today, they are prepared to apologize and release some good movies like (religiousity) or produce some good TV shows (Colbert Report).




    What can I say?  Once more, false generalizations.

    (As an aside, I don't think we are exactly on the same page if you are calling The Colbert Report 'the left'  wacko)


    Baal is very right-wing from what I know of him.

    His views do not represent most of us here.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #25 - February 20, 2009, 07:00 PM

    Quote

    But obviously I don't agree with the silly equivalence created in the Western media between a few Qassam rockets, which hardly hit anything or kill anyone,



    You might think differently if you had to run into a bomb shelter every other day for the last few years and close primary schools that your kids go to.



    That is indeed horrible Speaklow - but does that make the acts of aggression equivalent?
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #26 - February 20, 2009, 07:15 PM

    Quote from: Hassan
    His views do not represent most of us here.

    With all due respect, Hassan, neither do yours. Also, being right-wing or left-wing has no direct connection to the Israeli-Palestinian struggle, as Lewis has already mentioned.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #27 - February 20, 2009, 07:51 PM

    On balance, I would probably say it leans towards being pro-palestinian, but there is a broad range of opinion

    I think the consensus of opinion here is pro-palestine, we could do a poll on it?  I think the pro-Israel lobby is more vociferous so they get over represented..

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #28 - February 20, 2009, 08:43 PM

    Baal, I'm going to stick to posting in this thread, but I wanted to comment on your statement in another thread that leftists are all pro-Hamas.  This is a generalization to the point of simply being nonsense.  I, for one, have no love for Hamas.

    I've known other radical leftists to call Hamas "scum".  The whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a very divisive issue among people of all political persuasions.  I wish you wouldn't make false generalizations.

    Since more than the last few years, leftists were highly against corporatism, a noble cause. However in denouncing the evils of corporatism, they allied themselves with some very bad bedfellows. Now that the leftists are looking around to gage where they are, they are finding that they have to take a lot of strides to kick some evil bastards from their beds.

    I will not quickly forgive and forget the leftists for allying themselves with some of the worst aspects of humanity (not just from islam), just because today, they are prepared to apologize and release some good movies like (religiousity) or produce some good TV shows (Colbert Report).




    What can I say?  Once more, false generalizations.

    (As an aside, I don't think we are exactly on the same page if you are calling The Colbert Report 'the left'  wacko)


    Baal is very right-wing from what I know of him.

    His views do not represent most of us here.

    Just because my views differ from you. It does not make me right of anything. I am quite an outsider when it comes to left or right. My goal is the reform of islam (which I believe will lead to the destruction of islam although that is only a byproduct of reform). I will harp on the left as well as the right, if any of them decide to pick islam in its current form, as an ally in its schemes.

    The left made of islam a victim of the evil right.
    The right found in islam a golden goose to justify its obsession for growth and expansion at all cost.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Palestinian Media Watch
     Reply #29 - February 20, 2009, 08:56 PM


    Just because my views differ from you. It does not make me right of anything. I am quite an outsider when it comes to left or right. My goal is the reform of islam (which I believe will lead to the destruction of islam although that is only a byproduct of reform). I will harp on the left as well as the right, if any of them decide to pick islam in its current form, as an ally in its schemes.

    The left made of islam a victim of the evil right.
    The right found in islam a golden goose to justify its obsession for growth and expansion at all cost.


    Are you saying you support Israel because you see it as anti-muslim?  Its not an objective approach, and you should be on the side of fairness, whether its pro or anti muslim. Had the shoe been on the other foot, i.e. Muslims annexing Jewish Land originally, would you have sided the Muslims?

    I had always wondered, but I gave you benefit of the doubt?

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