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 Topic: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex

 (Read 8649 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     OP - February 20, 2009, 04:15 PM
    The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #1 - February 20, 2009, 04:48 PM
    This ones for Baal & Salahuddin me thinks! 

    I liked 7 &9

    7. The memeplex provides for new soldiers by allowing polygamy. A Muslim man can marry up to four wives, and he can have sex with as many slave girls as he wishes.

    The Koran especially encourages men to marry widows. This is an important meme to add if you are going to be losing a lot of soldiers in war. You need some way of replenishing your army. You don't want the memeplex to die out from a lack of offspring.

    8. It is a punishable offense to criticize Islam. You can see why this one is a good supporting meme for the memeplex. It helps curb any memes that would reduce the authority of Islamic memes. This one, like many of the others, is good for the memeplex, but bad for people. This one limits freedom of speech.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #2 - February 20, 2009, 04:52 PM
    A favored article of mine, thanx for reposting.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #3 - February 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
    Very good article.

    So converting an infidel gets you heaven points.

    Killing an infidel under certain circumstances can get you heaven points.

    So when the entire world is Islamic and there isn't anybody left to convert then you've run out of one source of heaven points.

    So what happens next - well obviously you single out another group and deem them less Islamic than you.

    You now have two options again, convert the Muslims to your way or Islam or kill them.

    That's why Islam will eat the world if it is allowed to.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #4 - February 20, 2009, 06:19 PM
    Quote from: speaklow on February 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
    That's why Islam will eat the world if it is allowed to.

    Yes, but provided its Halaal
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #5 - February 20, 2009, 08:31 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 20, 2009, 06:19 PM
    Quote from: speaklow on February 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
    That's why Islam will eat the world if it is allowed to.

    Yes, but provided its Halaal

    Replace the word islam with communism, nazism, capitalism, faschism, totaliarism.

    Of course, as for the world having to be halal to be eaten, that is something only for islam, just say allahu akbar before you kill it.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #6 - February 20, 2009, 08:38 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 20, 2009, 06:19 PM
    Quote from: speaklow on February 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
    That's why Islam will eat the world if it is allowed to.

    Yes, but provided its Halal

    Actually Ive just realised the world is not halal.  Pigs and alcohol exist on it, so its haram.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #7 - February 20, 2009, 10:59 PM
    i disagree with the article because of its extremely biased perspective. it's not objective.

    for example: polygamous marriage is not necessarily created by the islam memeplex to produce soldiers - to assume so is to buy in to the meme that islam is inherently violent! i can very easily think of another reason why polygamous marriages will be beneficial: 5 working people living in one household... monetary, social and financial benefits will be huge!

    that would allow them to suffer through harsh economic times more easily than monogamous couples.

    so yeah... it can be about peace too... but the author purposely ignores that and insists on a very... aggressive image of islam. :/

    memetics is useful but anyone can use it to propagate their own biased memes... 
    TRASH - The Rationalist Apostate Society for Humanity!

    Take a look for a few laughs and thoughtful discussions with a wide range of audience - fellow apostates, Muslims, sufis, non-Muslims, Christians, etc

    http://thetrashbin.wordpress.com
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #8 - February 21, 2009, 12:18 AM
    The new most hated word to me is 'meme'. Shut the fuck up already. Roll Eyes
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #9 - February 21, 2009, 12:24 AM
    Quote from: SalahuddinR on February 20, 2009, 10:59 PM
    memetics is useful but anyone can use it to propagate their own biased memes... 

    Memetics & memes are just a fancy names for the obvious and phenomenons that have been recognised since  the very first man first walked on this planet.  

    You seem to believe it reached its climax and became the sole overriding factor the moment Dawkins put a name to it.  

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #10 - February 21, 2009, 01:40 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 21, 2009, 12:24 AM
    Quote from: SalahuddinR on February 20, 2009, 10:59 PM
    memetics is useful but anyone can use it to propagate their own biased memes... 

    Memetics & memes are just a fancy names for the obvious and phenomenons that have been recognised since  the very first man first walked on this planet.  

    You seem to believe it reached its climax and became the sole overriding factor the moment Dawkins put a name to it.  

    What you mean?
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #11 - February 21, 2009, 09:22 AM
    Dont think the point applies to you Baal - I think you see it differently and give it less prominance like the rest of us
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #12 - February 21, 2009, 11:55 AM
    Quote from: speaklow on February 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
    Very good article.

    So converting an infidel gets you heaven points.

    Killing an infidel under certain circumstances can get you heaven points.

    So when the entire world is Islamic and there isn't anybody left to convert then you've run out of one source of heaven points.

    So what happens next - well obviously you single out another group and deem them less Islamic than you.

    You now have two options again, convert the Muslims to your way or Islam or kill them.

    That's why Islam will eat the world if it is allowed to.


    The same stuff happened in Christianity till a while back. Converting an infidel got you Heaven points, so Christian Priests would baptize little Native American babies only to kill them immediately, believing they were sending them off to Heaven. The Inquisition, which at its height stretched from Mexico to Goa in India, did not cease persecuting infidels till 1832, the last execution took place in Mexico in 1850.

    Infidels were regularly converted, like the little Jewish boy Edgardo Mortara, who'd been accidentally baptized by his nurse as a baby, and so the Catholic Church abducted him from his parents to raise him a Christian, as late as 1858. finmad

    And of course, for a long time, after Christians had converted all Europe, and were blocked from the East by Islam, they targetted "heretic" sects like the Cathars, and killed them all! Of course, at first Christianity in Europe also concentrated solely on the pagans, like the Greek pagans. http://ethnikoi.org/persecutions.html

    Finally, the violent Christian memeplex was largely defeated by the much more successful memeplex of secularism and rationality, and the same might happen to Islam! victory
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #13 - February 21, 2009, 12:26 PM
    Quote
    Christian Priests would baptize little Native American babies only to kill them immediately, believing they were sending them off to Heaven.


    I've never heard of that before, do you have any sources for that?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #14 - February 21, 2009, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:26 PM
    Quote
    Christian Priests would baptize little Native American babies only to kill them immediately, believing they were sending them off to Heaven.


    I've never heard of that before, do you have any sources for that?


    Sam Harris writes about it in his book, "The End of Faith," in page 255.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #15 - February 21, 2009, 12:39 PM
    I don't have the book, unfortunately.  Anyway, blaming Christianity for that is a bit like the poster in the other thread who seems to blaming Islam for rapes in Sweden.  There's nothing in Christianity which justifies people committing infanticide.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #16 - February 21, 2009, 12:46 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:39 PM
    I don't have the book, unfortunately.  Anyway, blaming Christianity for that is a bit like the poster in the other thread who seems to blaming Islam for rapes in Sweden.  There's nothing in Christianity which justifies people committing infanticide.

     

    True, only the Christian God Himself commits infanticide of the babies of those who trouble Ancient Israelites!  Cheesy Well, yes Christianity doesn't anywhere urge an infanticide, but it does say and till sometime back all Christian denominations believed that unbaptized =Hell and Jesus Himself said that idolaters and other such scum like fornicators don't get to go to Heaven so maybe the priests genuinely feared that these babies will go back to their parents idolatrous and other sin loving Heathen ways?woohoo
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #17 - February 21, 2009, 12:51 PM
    If so then they misunderstood their religion, because once the child was baptised the sacrament of confession was always available to them no matter how many heathenish, fornicating ways they fell into.  Murdering them OTOH, is as bad as deicide according to Jesus - whosoever harms the least of these harms me, etc. 

    Edit:  and incidentally, unbaptized never equalled hell, it meant limbo.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #18 - February 21, 2009, 01:04 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:51 PM
    If so then they misunderstood their religion, because once the child was baptised the sacrament of confession was always available to them no matter how many heathenish, fornicating ways they fell into.  Murdering them OTOH, is as bad as deicide according to Jesus - whosoever harms the least of these harms me, etc. 

     

    Of course Cheetah, I think so too, but the problem is that in their eyes, they were understanding their religion, and acting according to it. Much of Muslim atrocities too can be explained away in this way, especially their inter sect wars- the Quran urges absolute equality and brotherhood between all male believers, yet rival Shia Sunnis often massacre each other, believing they're acting strictly according to their faith.Just like this comment:
     
    Quote from: speaklow on February 20, 2009, 05:41 PM

    So what happens next - well obviously you single out another group and deem them less Islamic than you.

    You now have two options again, convert the Muslims to your way of Islam or kill them.


    Killing Shias or Sunnis is obviously not in accordance with Mohammed's teachings, just like killing Protestants was not in accordance with Jesus's teachings, because Protestants too had accepted Jesus, yet it happened, as Catholics of the past misunderstood their religion too.

    I just wanted to say that the topic made Islam into some singularly dangerous memeplex, capable of the greatest violence, yet it hasn't had a monopoly on violence historically, and perhaps is  capable of reforming into something tame just like the violent Christian memeplex did. Smiley

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #19 - February 21, 2009, 01:09 PM
    I hope so. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #20 - February 21, 2009, 01:20 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:51 PM
      Incidentally, unbaptized never equalled hell, it meant limbo.


    Cheetah, is limbo the state for all unbaptized dead people everywhere, or just unbaptized dead babies of Christian parents?

    Incidentally, I'm not particularly optimistic about Islam's reformation, given Muhammad's conduct. Thats' one major difference between the two faiths, according to me. Christians' in the past have done their fair share of violence, which certainly helped in great measure to spread Christianity, but Jesus-the founder and central character was never violent. Christians might've persecuted Jews, yet Jesus never did that. Christians might've persecuted Greek idolaters, and Jesus' may have said that idolaters don't inherit Heaven, yet he personally never smashed Temples. Muhammad did all that.

    Christians' had to base their violence on subsidiary sources, mainly the OT and some of Jesus' words like John 15:6 to justify their violence, Muslims have Muhammad's entire conduct.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #21 - February 21, 2009, 01:27 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 21, 2009, 01:20 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:51 PM
      Incidentally, unbaptized never equalled hell, it meant limbo.


    Cheetah, is limbo the state for all unbaptized dead people everywhere, or just unbaptized dead babies of Christian parents?


    It was for all unbaptized babies no matter what religion their parents were, plus "righteous heathens", eg, ancient Greeks and the like. 

    It no longer exists though, they've softened that line now to let all the above groups into Heaven.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #22 - February 21, 2009, 01:30 PM
    Oh cool, so when did god decide that limbo was out of style? Or was the pope so embarrassed by the stupidity of the concept that he made the decision for god?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #23 - February 21, 2009, 01:32 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 21, 2009, 01:30 PM
    Oh cool, so when did god decide that limbo was out of style? Or was the pope so embarrassed by the stupidity of the concept that he made the decision for god?


    I think it was during the Second Vatican Council that God decided to cancel limbo.  Not sure though.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #24 - February 21, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 01:27 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 21, 2009, 01:20 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:51 PM
      Incidentally, unbaptized never equalled hell, it meant limbo.


    Cheetah, is limbo the state for all unbaptized dead people everywhere, or just unbaptized dead babies of Christian parents?


    It was for all unbaptized babies no matter what religion their parents were, plus "righteous heathens", eg, ancient Greeks and the like. 

    It no longer exists though, they've softened that line now to let all the above groups into Heaven.


    Catholics have softened the line, not certain fundie groups like Pentecostalism. Shan's denomination certainly hasn't. Catholics have got a pretty nice Church now, they've evolved themselves naturally they believe in Evolution,don't interpret Scripture literally, hopefully anti gay bigotry will also disappear. Wink
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #25 - February 21, 2009, 02:06 PM
    Quote from: Rashna
    Finally, the violent Christian memeplex was largely defeated by the much more successful memeplex of secularism and rationality, and the same might happen to Islam!


    Not mean to offend you, but let me ask: would you add to the above statement...... 'So that we all can go home?'

    Flowery words reminiscent of ?give peace a chance?; ?give Islam a chance? would be nice to listen to or can be read like reading Keats or Tennyson.  But unfortunately we are not living in a world where we all can hope for Islam being reformed from within. I would be the last man to go home with such a false sense of optimism in my mind.

    I am not saying this with arrogance, but just consider my words as of an Ex-Muslim who is staying under a rule which asks to take my life away just because I am what I am. The sense of freedom and security secular West or East offers is a luxury for a man living under Sharia.

    One can not preserve his sanity all the time when it is evil manifest in front of his eyes. I often fail to keep a serene tone for the same reason.  And I never regret it but am proud of it. Many from here will not attempt for what I am doing right now. I do because I am aroused from within. Only if I can run away from myself, there will be an end to my struggle. But I can never run away from myself so the fight will go on.   

    Not meant any offense to anyone and if I was being arrogant here, accept my apologies. For me, world is not the same as many of you perceive. I am among the believers and I am alone for the same reason.

    Regards
    KF
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #26 - February 21, 2009, 02:19 PM
    KhalilF, you don't need to go on apologising, I get what you said. I too have read about many violent acts committed by Muslims in my country and the world, and seen grisly images on T.V.. Every time I read about one such incident in newspapers  news002 I'm terrified to go out anywhere for some days.

    I myself have said in this very thread, and I repeat that Islam might not reform like Christianity, given its role model is Muhammad. Behaving like Christ would be to forgive one's enemies, even die when faced with persecution, imitating Muhammad would be to take up arms against all those who oppose your views.

    Christians got their basis for violence largely from sources other than Jesus, like the OT or the words of Early Church fathers, which aren't exactly the core of the faith. Muhammad's actions are however the core of Islam.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #27 - February 23, 2009, 03:15 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 21, 2009, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 21, 2009, 12:26 PM
    Quote
    Christian Priests would baptize little Native American babies only to kill them immediately, believing they were sending them off to Heaven.


    I've never heard of that before, do you have any sources for that?


    Sam Harris writes about it in his book, "The End of Faith," in page 255.

    If you are hoping for a peaceful end to the Islam crisis, Sam Harris is not the source to listen:

    "The link between belief and behaviour raises the stakes considerably. Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them. This may seem an extraordinary claim, but it merely enunciates an ordinary fact about the world in which we live. Certain beliefs place their adherents beyond the reach of every peaceful means of persuasion, while inspiring them to commit acts of extraordinary violence against others. There is, in fact, no talking to some people."

    Sam Harris, The End of Faith page 52-53
    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #28 - February 23, 2009, 03:21 AM
    The biggest msitake people make about memes is equating them with genes.

    Genes have a predictable result in their modus operandi - i.e. a certain segment of DNA will be transcripted to produce a certain polypeptide, working like clockwork.

    Memes are very much up to the individual to interpret and implement. Memes, unlike genes, only have predictable results when they are reinforced by a dogmatic society, usually with power structures (the Church or the Caliphate).

    And that's why Islamic societies are all much alike, but Muslims are not all alike.
    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
     Reply #29 - February 23, 2009, 06:35 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 21, 2009, 12:18 AM
    The new most hated word to me is 'meme'. Shut the fuck up already. Roll Eyes

    language, he is not your buddy.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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