How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #30 - February 28, 2009, 07:41 PM

Just read through your story coolred38, its heartbreaking, you have my heartfelt sympathy. Islam, for all its faults does not condone incest between father & daughter & if Allah exists, He'll surely burn your ex husband in Hell, which your ex husband truly deserves!

I hope your daughters manage to completely get over their unpleasant experiences in the future.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #31 - February 28, 2009, 08:40 PM

All my deepest sympathy, Coolred. I hope your husband suffers for everything he did. You shouldn't blame Allah for anything that happened to you and your daughters though, the poor entity doesn't exist.

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- coolred38
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #32 - February 28, 2009, 08:59 PM

You shouldn't blame Allah for anything that happened

I figure the blaming thing is the only thing that keeps me holding on to the idea of belief in God...if I didnt blame him...who the hell would I blame for this shit? In other words...shit just happens? thats the hardest part of losing my beliefs...the idea that shit just happens for no apparent reason...no Higher Purpose etc
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #33 - February 28, 2009, 09:18 PM

Bloody hell. That's one horrific story you have there. I understand that some men do these things but I cannot possibly understand why the community would blame your daughters for it. That's just insane. Talk about adding insult to injury. What is wrong with those people? Don't they understand that having community attitudes like that is a surefire way to exacerbate the problem? It virtually gives carte blanche to rapists.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #34 - February 28, 2009, 10:58 PM

Quote from: coolred38 on February 28, 2009, 08:59 PM
You shouldn't blame Allah for anything that happened

I figure the blaming thing is the only thing that keeps me holding on to the idea of belief in God...if I didnt blame him...who the hell would I blame for this shit? In other words...shit just happens? thats the hardest part of losing my beliefs...the idea that shit just happens for no apparent reason...no Higher Purpose etc

You should blame your husband and the hypocritical society for the disasters that happened. Not the poor deity Allah, who died with Mohammad centuries ago.

Maybe there is some kind of Higher Purpose, I cannot tell. Because we humans watch the suffering of less intelligent animals with indifference, it is quite possible that whatever God that exists is alien and indifferent to us. But even then, this Higher Purpose cannot be Allah, whose favourite mortal Mohammad was a man of very similar character to this monstrous husband of yours.

It is saddening that you have been through such harrowing experiences, but try to be optimistic. At least you have lost your faith in Islam, which is a great step forward. Shit doesn't just happen, shit happens because of perverted monsters like Mohammad or your husband.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #35 - February 28, 2009, 11:15 PM

Coolread, I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to your and your children.

As long as your husband's family and the community continue to hold to their outdated belief that it is the female who is the instigator of all fitna they will continue to blame you and your daughters for what has happened. I'm in a similar situation with my husband's family and have not spoken to them in years. The best thing to do is to take the high road and cut them out of your life as much as possible.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #36 - February 28, 2009, 11:31 PM

I was never religious enough to wake up for the morning fajr prayer.

But I was religious enough to pray all of the other prayers in the day, and read a bit of the Quran every day, and generally be very Islam-conscious.

This was roughly between the age of 10-16. I had my religious phases and my non-religious phases during that time.

In Ramadhan I kept all of my fasts, and prayed all of my 5 prayers and the taraweeh prayer (with the jummat in mosque).

But then it slowly fizzled away, the doubts crept in, I began to question, and I actually began to study the religion that I was born into and had been following blindly most of my life. What I discovered wasn't very nice, and I left Islam, and I've never looked back ever since.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #37 - March 01, 2009, 01:39 AM

Coolred, I am so sorry that your family had to go through this, that your daughters were subjected to such a despicable act.

Did you report him to the authorities? He should have been punished by the law. It makes me sick to think about that
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #38 - March 01, 2009, 04:13 AM

Thank you everyone.

I did not press charges on him. In this country pedophilia and rapists are given light sentences...maybe 3 years if your lucky...usually thats reduced to 1. Women and children are preyed upon and the so called Sharia court cannot bother itself to impose lengthy deserving sentences on these predators...however...the victims are given life sentences meted out by society. Girls are considred ruined...their marriage prospects are dismal...their reputations are shredded by the "pious" tongues of those Muslims that brand them sluts. Boys are considered gay once they have been raped...I still scratch my head over that assumption.

I did not press charges at the time because I feared for my daughters in this society...I eventually sent them to the states to live with my sister as they couldnt handle the stares...the whispers...the accusations etc. I miss them but I know they are better off. One day I will be with them again.

Walking Fitna...title for a new book I think I will write...sigh!
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #39 - March 01, 2009, 04:19 AM

Quote from: coolred38 on March 01, 2009, 04:13 AM
Thank you everyone.

I did not press charges on him. In this country pedophilia and rapists are given light sentences...maybe 3 years if your lucky...usually thats reduced to 1. Women and children are preyed upon and the so called Sharia court cannot bother itself to impose lengthy deserving sentences on these predators...however...the victims are given life sentences meted out by society. Girls are considred ruined...their marriage prospects are dismal...their reputations are shredded by the "pious" tongues of those Muslims that brand them sluts. Boys are considered gay once they have been raped...I still scratch my head over that assumption.

I did not press charges at the time because I feared for my daughters in this society...I eventually sent them to the states to live with my sister as they couldnt handle the stares...the whispers...the accusations etc. I miss them but I know they are better off. One day I will be with them again.

Walking Fitna...title for a new book I think I will write...sigh!

That is such a touching story :( If you don't mind me asking, why didn't you join them in the States too?

And which country do you live in?

It makes me sick that people like that can get away with such atrocious acts.
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #40 - March 01, 2009, 04:24 AM

heartbomb

I havent joined them (well I did for 2 months then came back) because economically it wasnt feasible just now. It cost a fortune to live in the states now...and Im barely getting by in this much cheaper country. He is not paying child support anymore...Im taking him to court but they are notorious about not caring about women and childrens rights here...it could be awhile. Im searching for a job...but its slow in coming. And my oldest son will graduate this year and I didnt want to pull him up and disturb his final year...he is a good student and has worked hard for his grades.

We live in Bahrain...not as extreme as Saudi...but still very very much Arab with all its cultural horseshit.
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #41 - March 01, 2009, 04:41 AM

Quote from: Zaephon on February 28, 2009, 10:58 PM

Maybe there is some kind of Higher Purpose, I cannot tell. Because we humans watch the suffering of less intelligent animals with indifference, it is quite possible that whatever God that exists is alien and indifferent to us.

You know, what first turned me off the idea of God was animal cruelty. When I was in Bangladesh, I'd watch boys near our Embassy building kill birds by stoning them, and then when the wounded bird fell to the ground, they'd squash it with their foot, laughing. It made me wonder why God was so indifferent to the physical suffering of the animals He's created. Even if animals don't feel emotional pain like we humans do, they do feel physical pain, so why create the ability to feel physical pain, if God wants animals & humans to go through such pain regularly? I've also seen animals being slaughtered for halal meat, dying a slow & excruciatingly painful death & vivisection of animals for science on T.V.

We humas love this idea of a God,
1) Who exists
2) Who's kind, loving, caring, loves all creatures big & small etc

But maybe God really isn't all that, if He exists. A book reflects the ideas of its author, and the creation the idea of a Creator, so maybe God is a sadomasochist monster who likes creating creatures who'll feel immense pain due to the way he's made their nervous systems- only to create a system where his creatures will slaughter each other for food & his humans will cause tremendous pain & suffering to each other through entirely novel ideas like race based slavery or faith based ethnic cleansing.

Which sadistic human, even Hitler, even if they had the capacity to create Life, would choose to make such a world, where billions of pain feeling creatures will feel such intolerable physical & mental agony each day?

Maybe God does exist & really is like the Judeo Islamic God, who naturally demands halal\kosher meat to satisfy his sadism, & will further enjoy roasting us in Hell if we don't accept Him as our worth worshipping Creator?

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #42 - March 01, 2009, 09:19 AM

Quote from: Rashna
Even if animals don't feel emotional pain like we humans do, they do feel physical pain, so why create the ability to feel physical pain, if God wants animals & humans to go through such pain regularly?

Indeed, so much for the "Islam teaches compassion to animals" theory. Primitive animals cannot feel physical pain though, and advanced animals can experience a lot of emotional pain. There are cats that attempt suicide or change their behaviour after their owners have a baby and start ignoring their pet emotionally, for example.

Quote from: Rashna
Which sadistic human, even Hitler, even if they had the capacity to create Life, would choose to make such a world, where billions of pain feeling creatures will feel such intolerable physical & mental agony each day? Maybe God does exist & really is like the Judeo Islamic God, who naturally demands halal\kosher meat to satisfy his sadism, & will further enjoy roasting us in Hell if we don't accept Him as our worth worshipping Creator?

You are very pessimistic Rashna, life isn't just about intolerable anguish. Also, the existence and the awareness of pain ideally should drive sentient creatures towards its elimination and general sophistication, i.e. pain has a very valid evolutionary reason. I think you may be going through the same "I hate God" phase that most atheists seem to undergo.

Maybe we will eliminate all physical pain in the next century, and human society will live happily for many millenia. We are just living through an infinitesimal slice of eternity and we cannot judge the Higher Purpose, if there be one, with the required level of objectivity.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #43 - March 01, 2009, 10:16 AM

Quote from: Zaephon on March 01, 2009, 09:19 AM
Indeed, so much for the "Islam teaches compassion to animals" theory. Primitive animals cannot feel physical pain though, and advanced animals can experience a lot of emotional pain. There are cats that attempt suicide or change their behaviour after their owners have a baby and start ignoring their pet emotionally, for example.

Gosh, attempt suicide? My mom always said that her pet cat used to be jealous when my baby sister was born & sit in a corner sulking, and I always laughed it off.

Quote from: Zaephon on March 01, 2009, 09:19 AM
You are very pessimistic Rashna, life isn't just about intolerable anguish. Also, the existence and the awareness of pain ideally should drive sentient creatures towards its elimination and general sophistication, i.e. pain has a very valid evolutionary reason. I think you may be going through the same "I hate God" phase that most atheists seem to undergo.

Maybe we will eliminate all physical pain in the next century, and human society will live happily for many millenia. We are just living through an infinitesimal slice of eternity and we cannot judge the Higher Purpose, if there be one, with the required level of objectivity.

We can't judge the real Higher Purpose, but the vision of the Higher Purpose given in most ancient & medieval religious texts suck, at least Yahweh & His copycat Allah suck.

Its just the kind of God you'd expect an animal torturing, sexist, racist lot of people with a very limited understanding of the world to create.

And yes, Higher Being, if He exists has created a very beautiful, majestic Earth & Universe along with all the pain & anguish, which is far better,complicated & grander than what religious texts give us through their stupid Genesis stories & we might just get to know the Creator as He\She\It realy exists someday...

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #44 - March 01, 2009, 12:39 PM

Quote from: coolred38 on February 28, 2009, 08:59 PM
You shouldn't blame Allah for anything that happened

I figure the blaming thing is the only thing that keeps me holding on to the idea of belief in God...if I didnt blame him...who the hell would I blame for this shit? In other words...shit just happens? thats the hardest part of losing my beliefs...the idea that shit just happens for no apparent reason...no Higher Purpose etc

I don't believe in God yet I still blame him some times. If he's there then he is a despicable bastard and deserves to burn in hell himself. This has also helped me overcome my fear in hell. It doesn't matter if he exists or not, he doesn't deserve worship. Nothing does.

I've come to hate the human race and stories like yours make the anger much worse. I've tried becoming apathetic to it but for once in my life this approach just doesn't work so now I've told myself that one day I will hopefully work for an organisation that makes a difference (such as Amnesty).

The blame game makes the pain easier to bear but if it is aimed at an entity that doesn't exist then you will end up driving yourself mad.

I hope you will find a good job one day and hopefully move out of that hell hole I really do wish you all the luck, you deserve it.

If the worst comes then you could move to the uk and sponge off the benefits system like everyone else does

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #45 - March 02, 2009, 03:25 AM

I was religious for just about 2 years when I was a kid,

Peruvian, read about this brave dude:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Al-Qasemi

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #46 - March 02, 2009, 11:58 AM

Saudi atheist? Born in 1907? My hats off to you Mr. Al Qasemi!May there be more of such people in your nation.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #47 - March 02, 2009, 12:01 PM

I was a religious, practicing muslim. I used to pray 5 times a day without missing it. I even do the non-compulsory paryer like the tahjuud and witir (a midnight prayer) and i read the quran my before bed almost every day. One of the reasons for me to think that Islam is not from god is that when i ask god for help and you know what happends? I don't have the enthusiasm to pray any longer.
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #48 - March 03, 2009, 01:04 AM

Quote from: coolred
Thank you everyone.

I did not press charges on him. In this country pedophilia and rapists are given light sentences...maybe 3 years if your lucky...usually thats reduced to 1. Women and children are preyed upon and the so called Sharia court cannot bother itself to impose lengthy deserving sentences on these predators...however...the victims are given life sentences meted out by society. Girls are considred ruined...their marriage prospects are dismal...their reputations are shredded by the "pious" tongues of those Muslims that brand them sluts. Boys are considered gay once they have been raped...I still scratch my head over that assumption.

I did not press charges at the time because I feared for my daughters in this society...I eventually sent them to the states to live with my sister as they couldnt handle the stares...the whispers...the accusations etc. I miss them but I know they are better off. One day I will be with them again.

It's a truly sickening state of affairs, coolred. I am so sorry for your daughters and for what you've been through. I blame the misogynistic culture and segregation of sexes for the tolerance of men's sexual perversions.

May I ask what is your son studying?

If he is for instance doing engineering or medicine, there are jobs in Europe, Uk and Ireland... Certainly better places than Bahrain.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #49 - March 03, 2009, 09:11 AM

Quote from: Emerald on March 02, 2009, 03:25 AM
I was religious for just about 2 years when I was a kid,

Peruvian, read about this brave dude:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Al-Qasemi

Hats off to him Hopefully people like him will encourage more people to apostatize.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #50 - March 03, 2009, 09:20 AM

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #51 - March 03, 2009, 09:25 AM

A-Pasta-Ate!! I love it!

Interesting story, what kind of lies were told by those muslims? I have noticed some muslims doing the same and it pisses me off.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #52 - March 03, 2009, 10:06 AM

Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 03, 2009, 09:25 AM
A-Pasta-Ate!! I love it!

Interesting story, what kind of lies were told by those muslims? I have noticed some muslims doing the same and it pisses me off.

It's not unique to Muslims, I find the same kind of hypocritical lifestyles being lived in all repressive communities. I found that most of the younger Muslims (ages 12-20+) were living these double lives, praying and fasting at home and dating and drinking outside. With the parents I found too many of the older Muslim men proposing "temporary marriages" (a Shi'a loophole) to girls who were their daughters' ages, while their non-English speaking wives waited for them at home. I found that most Muslims were heavily involved in day by day management of their cognitive dissonance (a phrase I learned about years later), or at least it seemed that way to me. For many of them, it seemed they were perfectly okay with always living partially "in the closet".

Most of all, what bothered me was this idea that I was somehow a second class citizen, being a woman. I found such contradiction in Islam's actual teachings and what the Muslim leaders of the community were telling us it said. The whole "hijab is for the woman's protection" and "islam liberated women" and the sheer fact that every question I had about Islam's teachings was always, ALWAYS batted down by the moulanas, and various aunties and uncles. My natural curiousity was celebrated when it came to my academic pursuits, but I was expected to put away my intelligence and just subjugate myself to the ideas and opinions of bearded men who oogled my breasts in between staring at the floor when talking to me. I wanted someone to talk to me rationally about religion and that was my problem. Those 2 don't mix.

I just got sick of never receiving satisfactory answers to my questions about Aisha's child marriage to Mo, the ridiculousness of the flying horse to heaven story, the logic behind why Shi'as beat and cut themselves for 2 months of every year and how that's supposed to help anyone, the reason why Khadija was such a successful business owner even though supposedly women were treated awfully by everyone until Islam came to save us all.

In the end, I was disgusted by how the Muslims of this large community were quite corrupt and hypocritical in their approach. For most of them, Islam was just part of the social fabric, something they'd inherited and were resigned to live with, even though in the rest of their lives, they had foregone the unreasonable expectations of their religious culture.

They'd still defend Islam in all its irrational glory. I just feel that if someone defends a philosophy but doesn't actually follow it, they're being idiots. Either don't defend it because it is ridiculous, or follow it even though it is ridiculous. It is demeaning and dangerous when we defend that which we *know* is wrong, unreasonable and inhumane. It implies support of all those who practice all the terrible stuff that we don't have the courage to openly renounce.

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #53 - March 03, 2009, 10:32 AM

I like the sayings at the bottom of your profile too!

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #54 - March 03, 2009, 04:25 PM

"My natural curiousity was celebrated when it came to my academic pursuits, but I was expected to put away my intelligence and just subjugate myself to the ideas and opinions of bearded men..."

This is something I could never understand about being Muslim...they proudly proclaim that the first word heard by the Prophet was "Read" or "Recite"...which means to learn...strive to learn and dont accept answers just because...to search for wisdom if you have to go to China....but then when you start asking questions...your accused of being weak or unfaithful or spreading fitna etc. Such hypocrisy
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #55 - November 12, 2009, 10:59 PM

Wow! I can't believe I missed this thread.

I became a practising muslim in my early teens and had absolute conviction in the existence of God. I prayed five times a day, fasted, attended islamic circles and generally kept the company of similar practising teens.

I started having doubts around the age of fifteen but carried on practicing. It was the childish question about who created God. I was put in place at that time and didn't ask that question again till I was eighteen. I carried on practising, even though I had my doubts.

I read books upon books in the hope to increase my iman. I was told that practise would help in the increase. But I kept tripping up at the first hurdle. Why should I accept the answer that I was given. It was only an assertion after all.

Anyhow. I suppose on the outside of it I tried to be a practising muslim, but was never intellectually satisfied. If I look back then maybe the first nail in the coffin was probably at the age of fifteen.
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #56 - November 13, 2009, 01:13 AM

Omar, you seem to be reviving a lot of threads these days.

Anyways, since it's here I guess I'll join.

I was raised a Muslim, my family were devout(so was the majority of the society I lived in) but not Wahabi style. Though my dad was indeed very devout as I remember from my blurry childhood memories, but now he's loosened up a lot now.
Anyways, I prayed fasted, everything a good Muslim will do, and even did the voluntary Nawafel and Rawateb at times. There was a point in my life (I think 15 years old) where I tried being super religious, but I was actually motivated by some Quran teacher who came home to teach me (it was my grandfather's idea). Although I wasn't very keen on music before this point, I became a super anti-music, and I tended to keep it private, but one of my cousins noticed and started making fun of me, sometimes in public. While I didn't like it back then, I want to thank him now, cuz it was kinda effective(among other things). And around that time I stumbled upon many things in the internet showing Islam for what it really is, tried forgetting about these things, but it still haunted me. Anyways my devoutness loosened up but still prayed, not watch porn, but a HUGE fan of music, to the point I really made myself a fatwa to make music halal and was quite convinced about it. In case you're interested what the 'fatwa' was, it is that in the day of the prophet mp3 players, cds, tapes, etc didn't exist and the music had to be played/sung by a person, which mostly was a woman(just a guess), and might include temptation and stuff, but now it's OK. Continued to be a Muslim, but was really having some sort of view that Hadith is not that authentic, and was even more accepting of people of other faiths/non-faiths, and tried convincing myself that they will not go to hell. My views on evolution kinda changed, but never really read a book or anything about it, I just knew it was pretty much agreed upon among the scientific community. My doubts just piled up, though I still prayed and fasted, but that's pretty much it, I even started watching porn. When I came to the UK last Ramadan I almost fasted and prayed all of it except the last few days, where I just couldn't take it anymore(not the practicing bit, but the doubts bit), embraced my doubts with a brave heart, delved more into them, and bingo, a new apostate

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #57 - November 13, 2009, 01:33 AM

@Infidel

It is interesting the number of Muslims I see on YouTube who try to make out that listening to music and playing musical instruments is halal - even though the four Sunni Madh'hab state that it is haraam.

Is it too strict of an interpretation to state the above or are those who claim it is halal simply deluding themselves?

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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #58 - November 13, 2009, 02:41 AM

Quote from: kaiwai on November 13, 2009, 01:33 AM
@Infidel

It is interesting the number of Muslims I see on YouTube who try to make out that listening to music and playing musical instruments is halal - even though the four Sunni Madh'hab state that it is haraam.

Is it too strict of an interpretation to state the above or are those who claim it is halal simply deluding themselves?

The Quran has absolutely no reference to the music being haram, however some hadiths state(not very explicitly) that music is haram, and there's some ancient Islamic scholar(a very respected one) whom I forgot his name, who said it was OK. So, it is not too much of a delusion to conclude they are not haram.

"In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan
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Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
Reply #59 - November 13, 2009, 02:48 AM

Quote from: Infidel on November 13, 2009, 02:41 AM
The Quran has absolutely no reference to the music being haram, however some hadiths state(not very explicitly) that music is haram, and there's some ancient Islamic scholar(a very respected one) whom I forgot his name, who said it was OK. So, it is not too much of a delusion to conclude they are not haram.

Having had a look at the evidence I'd say there is more to conclude that is haraam than it being halal:

http://muttaqun.com/music.html

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
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