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Theme Changer

 Topic: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?

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  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #60 - November 13, 2009, 04:49 AM

    I would say my religious life actually really started in my teens when my more religious mom thought I was old enough to at least fast and pray in Ramazan, and I really looked forward to it. Before that, I always had some local Qari visit us and teach me recite the Quran from a young age, but I was never asked to do Namaz etc by family until I was around 12-13. It started my religiously devotional phase which reached its zenith when I was around 19-20 years old.

    My dad has always been the relatively non-religious type, save for Ramazan and the occasional prayer on the insistence of my mom; he always was slightly cynical about me being religious as a kid but I thought he was just dodging Islam, but as an ex-Army man, he has always been a strict disciplinarian and very conservative thinking as well about raising kids. My sisters had their phases purely because of my mom's insistence, but deep down they are least bothered about religious practices.

    As a Shia, I took my belief VERY seriously in a country where the majority is Sunni who are sometimes very cynical and rude towards Shias, not to mention hateful given the anti-Shia terror attacks that have been going on in Pakistan since the late 1980s. A lot of innocent doctors, engineers, officers, businessmen, scholars, and Namazis etc have been murdered in cold blood just because they were Shias. So to me being a Shia in Pakistan was an act of supreme defiance and pride, though I was always hesitant (and was asked by family to be so) to avoid confrontational questions from Sunnis who are mostly grossly ignorant and plain idiots about Shia beliefs.

    -some claim Shias commit adultery in Muharram and name the illegitimate children Hussain and Zainab etc
    -some claim breaking fasts with Shias makes their fast null and void
    -some claim Shias spit in the food served to Sunnis
    -and so on so forth

    Naturally, these obscene examples of religious hatred amongst the increasingly Wahhabised Sunnis of Pakistan made me very strong in my belief. The whole stories of Karbala, Abu Bakr etc usurping Ali's right to be the first Caliph and Imam, the Hidden 12th Imam, Iran's defiance to the world etc etc...they really appealed to me and I took them to the heart.

    As early as 3 years ago I firmly believed Shia Islam was the true Islam and it will prevail the Muslim World and then everyone will cry for Hussain and the 12 Imam shall return and form a tag team with Jesus/Issa and win the WWE World Tag Team Championship........ok I made up the wrestling bit just now (I havent watched pro wrestling since 2006 lol) Cheesy

    What initially changed me to become more secular was the whole degeneracy of the Danish cartoon drama. I wanted to justify the rabid reaction against it, but then I thought that freedom of speech should not mean death just because someone said something we dont like. I was very turned off by the riots, destruction, and even deaths of people not even related to Denmark around the Muslim World that I thought something is VERY wrong with Muslims.

    Then reading about the gross abuse the Iranian Shia mullahcracy dished out to their own people in the name of Allah. From corruption, to persecution of Baha'is, to funding Shia reactionary groups around the world, to ridiculous religious idiocy in an otherwise liberal-minded country. I got dissatisfied with trying to be a 'Pan-Shia Islamic revivalist' as I once called myself around 2 years ago. I became less religious daily, but kept fasting and attended the Muharram majalis in Manchester during my Uni years away from home.

    I got more and more secular, but I still kept the faith and thought it was true. I became more open-minded, and in the summer of 2008, out of sheer boredom I discovered science documentaries about space, science, and of course evolution. That really moved my mind to the extent I really wondered why should I accept shit spat out by a bunch of bronze age goat herders who had no idea about science, philosophy, and knowledge.....I really started to question God and what He supposedly is and definitely isn't. The likes of George Carlin, Bill Hicks, and to an extent Pat Condell (whom I really hate now because he looks like some angry old grandma and a poster boy for right-wing nutters) made it even more curious for me.

    By the time January 2009 came, I was an atheist & secular humanist. My journey to leave Islam was complete, much to the annoyance of my mom  Cheesy

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #61 - November 13, 2009, 09:01 AM

    I noticed a lot of you saying that your Mother was religious, but not your father.... Aint it how it usually is.
     I long found that men are rarely religious, if they are they are more often religist (in the tribalistic or bossy kind of way, as opposed to an actual spiritual are really believing kind of way) as opposed to women who tend to be more religious (however generally more flexible with things like dogma, in favor for more spiritual stuff).  Men only really seem to care about religion if they are a bit loopy or there is some kind of honor thing going on.

    Not meaning to be sexist, just an observation.


    edit: not an exact science or anything, just something I noticed. It always seemed to me that generally men are more likely to be unbelievers than women

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #62 - November 13, 2009, 09:31 AM

    Well, my father is an open atheist. All his friends are aware. Not sure his family is though, because they live in Pakistan and he hasn't seen them for over thirty years. My mother was a fairly nominal muslim till she went on Hajj in her early fifities and has since developed a fairly keen interest in religion.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #63 - November 13, 2009, 10:51 AM

    I noticed a lot of you saying that your Mother was religious, but not your father.... Aint it how it usually is.
     I long found that men are rarely religious, if they are they are more often religist (in the tribalistic or bossy kind of way, as opposed to an actual spiritual are really believing kind of way) as opposed to women who tend to be more religious (however generally more flexible with things like dogma, in favor for more spiritual stuff).  Men only really seem to care about religion if they are a bit loopy or there is some kind of honor thing going on.

    Not meaning to be sexist, just an observation.


    edit: not an exact science or anything, just something I noticed. It always seemed to me that generally men are more likely to be unbelievers than women


    I broadly agree with your observation.  And it is women spend a greater amount of time influencing the next generation.  And it particularly sad when it is women who take the short end of the stick with Islam. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #64 - November 13, 2009, 10:18 PM

    Yes that's a very valid observation. Women stay at home and don't work (for my parent's generation) and hence this is why. It wont happen with my sisters though, they'll be working, living more freely and in a more developed environment that's getting ever religious-less.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #65 - November 13, 2009, 11:06 PM

    Hi Peru

    Yes I was an extremely devout Muslim and an activist you could say. In the sense that I went around preaching and writing articles on Islam.

    Anything else?

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #66 - November 14, 2009, 05:03 AM

    Glad to say, I never really practiced islam as should a Muslim supposed to do. I felt guilty at times thinking what would i tell god about my not praying etc. But started to convince myself that if there was a true all powerful god, he would not mind a singly tiny sould missing some silly rituals that did not mean a thing!

    ...
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #67 - November 14, 2009, 05:22 AM

    For those of you who didn't practice. Do you ever get stereo typed by muslims, who say that you never understood Islam properly? Part of me is glad I went through it exhausting every possible angle. Then again, I feel as though I wasted a good part of my life on it when I really could have been doing something else.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #68 - November 14, 2009, 02:42 PM

    I try to make sure not to tell them I wasn't very religious in order to avoid stereo-typing, doesn't work sometimes though as they just tell me to translate arabic (cause you see all muslims understand arabic Roll Eyes )

    Sometimes I just give them Hassan's blog, but some of them just pick little things out of that to use against him! There's no arguing with these people!
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #69 - November 14, 2009, 06:43 PM

    Sometimes I just give them Hassan's blog, but some of them just pick little things out of that to use against him! There's no arguing with these people!


    Yes, it really annoys me the way many Muslims have read my blog not to hear what I'm saying, but to find one tiny chink of light that will allow them to dismiss the whole thing.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #70 - November 14, 2009, 07:01 PM

    For those of you who didn't practice. Do you ever get stereo typed by muslims, who say that you never understood Islam properly? Part of me is glad I went through it exhausting every possible angle. Then again, I feel as though I wasted a good part of my life on it when I really could have been doing something else.

    Lol at love at your new title "God is dead!", but he was never alive to begin with?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #71 - November 14, 2009, 07:02 PM

    Most people are not rational truth seekers. Rather they just want to stick with what they have been born with. Hence the nit picking.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #72 - November 14, 2009, 07:21 PM

    My parents were much mroe resonable than a lot of Muslim parents, as they encouraged me to read the qur'an in english rather than a language (arabic) which I couldn't understand. I can understand how people who memorise the Qur'an are often firm in their faith since most of their brain space is occupied by the Qur'an, they have little room left for intelligent analysis and thought.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #73 - November 14, 2009, 07:54 PM

    I can understand how people who memorise the Qur'an are often firm in their faith since most of their brain space is occupied by the Qur'an,

     Cheesy An entry for joker of the month

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #74 - November 14, 2009, 08:43 PM

    For a time, especially when I was a newlywed I was a pretty devout, practicing Muslim but what pissed me off the most was that as a white convert most Muslims treated me like I was a small child who didn't know anything about Islam when in fact, I knew more about the 'real' Islam than most of the know-it-alls who really only knew their own cultural version of Islam which they were brought up with.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #75 - November 17, 2009, 06:05 PM

    I was really religious most especially during my undergraduate years back here in Nigeria. My first year in the University was cool i was your easy going moderate muslim who listened to music, had a girlfriend and even toyed around with marijuana for a while but all of a sudden in my second year in the university i moved in to a new accomodation which happened to be near a mosque where there were a lot of practising muslims and i felt that my faith was really lacking after i compared my way of life to theirs, that was when i really fell into the jaws of islam. I stopped listening to music, had no girlfriend, made sure my troussers didnt go lower than my ankles, tried my best in performing the nafl prayers after the obligatory ones and i hardly ever missed the nafl fasts of monday and thursdays for about 3 years etc, as i progreesed through university my grades got better and back then i foolishly attributed this to allah rewarding me for my service to him  rather than having more time for my studies since i did not have my girlfriend or marijuana distracting me. i have a lot to say but not much time right now so i will just leave it at that...

    my greatest regret was wasting and investing so much of my time and resources on islam  Cry Cry that still hurts me today.....

    "There aint no devil, it's just God when he's drunk"- Tom Waits
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #76 - December 14, 2009, 08:40 PM

    Sorry for necroing..

    I was a believing and practicing Muslim. I was quite religious as far as my practice goes. Prayed 5 times a day and usually the sunnah prayers too. I'd miss a handful maybe once a month but I was fucking discplined otherwise. I fasted every day, every ramadan since I was around 14 when I became religious. I would recite the Quran every day almost, did the "khatum" at least a 3 times (reciting the whole quran).

    I was definitely definitely not a hypocrite. I never touched alchohol or drugs in any way shape or form. I was islamically awkward around women and was a virgin till age 23 - though I can't blame that only on Islam..  Tongue Cry
    And I followed all the personal rules of behavior like not back-biting and lowering the gaze.

    So I'd say I was pretty faithful and religious. And given the shock that many family and friends expressed at me leaving the faith, i'd say that's how others perceived me too. Lots of Bengali "aunties" would put me up as a role-model of academic success + religious piety. Lots of the Bengali kids hated me for that, since I was considered a "good boy".

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #77 - December 14, 2009, 08:44 PM


    So I'd say I was pretty faithful and religious. And given the shock that many family and friends expressed at me leaving the faith, i'd say that's how others perceived me too. Lots of Bengali "aunties" would put me up as a role-model of academic success + religious piety.

    Bet there all saying gossiping and saying look at him now, 'we thought he way such a good boy -we shoud be aware of this and not let it happen to our own children'  Roll Eyes

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #78 - December 15, 2009, 03:35 PM

    Sorry for necroing..

    I was a believing and practicing Muslim. I was quite religious as far as my practice goes. Prayed 5 times a day and usually the sunnah prayers too. I'd miss a handful maybe once a month but I was fucking discplined otherwise. I fasted every day, every ramadan since I was around 14 when I became religious. I would recite the Quran every day almost, did the "khatum" at least a 3 times (reciting the whole quran).

    I was definitely definitely not a hypocrite. I never touched alchohol or drugs in any way shape or form. I was islamically awkward around women and was a virgin till age 23 - though I can't blame that only on Islam..  Tongue Cry
    And I followed all the personal rules of behavior like not back-biting and lowering the gaze.

    So I'd say I was pretty faithful and religious. And given the shock that many family and friends expressed at me leaving the faith, i'd say that's how others perceived me too. Lots of Bengali "aunties" would put me up as a role-model of academic success + religious piety. Lots of the Bengali kids hated me for that, since I was considered a "good boy".

    OMG!!! that sounds exactly like me in my 23 years of life so far !  Cheesy Cry

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #79 - December 15, 2009, 05:28 PM

    I had been a devout Muslim for most of my adult life. My knowledge of Islam was very strong, and I never intentionally missed a prayer in over 20 years. Like Hassan, I was very active in the Islamic movement, holding senior executive posts during and after my student days. I also used to run several study circles, and chaired many Islamic talks, and for years lead the fiday khutbah/prayer. Whilst not being a Hafiz, I have memorized large parts of the Quran.

    My families reaction upon heearing about my initial doubts about Islam were - maddness, evil eye or mid-life crisis/depression. They could not doubt my knowledge or sincerety whilst I was a Muslim.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #80 - December 15, 2009, 05:40 PM

    Quote
    I had been a devout Muslim for most of my adult life. My knowledge of Islam was very strong, and I never intentionally missed a prayer in over 20 years. Like Hassan, I was very active in the Islamic movement, holding senior executive posts during and after my student days. I also used to run several study circles, and chaired many Islamic talks, and for years lead the fiday khutbah/prayer. Whilst not being a Hafiz, I have memorized large parts of the Quran.


    An experience similiar to mine.

    Quote
    My families reaction upon heearing about my initial doubts about Islam were - maddness, evil eye or mid-life crisis/depression. They could not doubt my knowledge or sincerety whilst I was a Muslim.



    Did you gradually lose faith or was it a sudden departure?

    Challenge All Ideologies but don't Hate People.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #81 - December 15, 2009, 05:48 PM

    I had been a devout Muslim for most of my adult life. My knowledge of Islam was very strong, and I never intentionally missed a prayer in over 20 years. Like Hassan, I was very active in the Islamic movement, holding senior executive posts during and after my student days. I also used to run several study circles, and chaired many Islamic talks, and for years lead the fiday khutbah/prayer. Whilst not being a Hafiz, I have memorized large parts of the Quran.

    My families reaction upon heearing about my initial doubts about Islam were - maddness, evil eye or mid-life crisis/depression. They could not doubt my knowledge or sincerety whilst I was a Muslim.


    No doubt you would have come across people like Hamza Yusuf, Abdal Hakim Murad and Nuh Keller?

    My lifestyle was fairly similar. I was part of two well known "movement" groups, although not an active member, I looked to both of them as being the "solution".

    When I apostated, it was all I could think about for months. I've lost a few friends over it, but I suppose it comes with the turf. I wish I had done it in my early twenties or late teens.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #82 - December 15, 2009, 10:36 PM

    An experience similiar to mine.


    Did you gradually lose faith or was it a sudden departure?



    A bit of both. Although my doubts started growing gradually I just couldn't bring myself to thinking about apostasy because of the implications upon my wife, children, family and friends. I guess I was simply putting off the inevitable.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #83 - December 15, 2009, 10:40 PM

    No doubt you would have come across people like Hamza Yusuf, Abdal Hakim Murad and Nuh Keller?



    Yes I did, along with the leading speakers/scholars from HT, Salaf/JIMAS, Tablighi-Jamaat, YM/ISB, Muslim Parliament, Abdul Raheem Green, FOSIS etc.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #84 - December 15, 2009, 11:05 PM

    Wow Abuk, you were heavy in the game. Much respect.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #85 - December 15, 2009, 11:13 PM

    Yes I did, along with the leading speakers/scholars from HT, Salaf/JIMAS, Tablighi-Jamaat, YM/ISB, Muslim Parliament, Abdul Raheem Green, FOSIS etc.


    Whoa, thats a lot of people. What are the people from HT, Tablighi, and Abdur Raheem Green like in person? Are they rude, arrogant and self righteous assholes, or are they actually nice people willing to help? Just wondering Smiley

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #86 - December 16, 2009, 08:41 AM

    Whoa, thats a lot of people. What are the people from HT, Tablighi, and Abdur Raheem Green like in person? Are they rude, arrogant and self righteous assholes, or are they actually nice people willing to help? Just wondering Smiley



    I found all the groups that I worked with to be sincere in their mission. They were all striving for the same overall mission, all be it, in slightly different ways. I wouldn't want to slander anyone, but each group had individuals who perhaps were not perfect in their approach. However, that is to be expected when a large number of individuals collectively form a group.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #87 - December 16, 2009, 04:24 PM

    It's quite impressive you managed to break free abuk. Must've been tough.
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #88 - December 16, 2009, 04:28 PM

    I found all the groups that I worked with to be sincere in their mission. They were all striving for the same overall mission, all be it, in slightly different ways. I wouldn't want to slander anyone, but each group had individuals who perhaps were not perfect in their approach. However, that is to be expected when a large number of individuals collectively form a group.


    Hi Abuk, I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are on "faith"? When I was muslim, I always thought that I was lacking in something or asking too many questions, which was withdrawing me from the grace and mercy of God. Now I just think it's a sign naive stupidity!
  • Re: How many of you were religious, practicing muslims before your apostasy?
     Reply #89 - December 16, 2009, 04:32 PM

    It's quite impressive you managed to break free abuk. Must've been tough.


    Yes it still is tough. My family were only recently aware that I had "doubts", and are clinging on to the hope that I will "recover"....
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