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 Topic: To smack kids or not to smack..........

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  • To smack kids or not to smack..........
     OP - February 25, 2009, 02:54 PM
    Quote from: awais
    But I don't see how getting beat by the parents can be that bad if you fuck up, it should be expected; unless if they leave you bruised and bloodied?

    Are you serious? No kind of child-beating is acceptable. It's only "expected" in the sense that such abuse is widespread, I hope.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #1 - February 25, 2009, 03:15 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on February 25, 2009, 02:54 PM
    Quote from: awais
    But I don't see how getting beat by the parents can be that bad if you fuck up, it should be expected; unless if they leave you bruised and bloodied?

    Are you serious? No kind of child-beating is acceptable. It's only "expected" in the sense that such abuse is widespread, I hope.


    Actually, thats' why its expected, its widespread. Wife beating can also be justified by some people, especially if the wife's a 9 year old disobedient child. Wink Thankfully wife beating is widely unacceptable today & regarded as a repulsive act, child beating is already unacceptable in schools & soon it'll be regarded as almost universally unacceptable, I hope.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #2 - February 25, 2009, 11:53 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on February 25, 2009, 02:54 PM
    Quote from: awais
    But I don't see how getting beat by the parents can be that bad if you fuck up, it should be expected; unless if they leave you bruised and bloodied?

    Are you serious? No kind of child-beating is acceptable. It's only "expected" in the sense that such abuse is widespread, I hope.

    You don't think kids need to be smacked around sometimes for being stupid? It helped me, bad as I was Tongue. "Next time you think about doing something stupid, think about the pain I'm gon' put on your ass". Roll Eyes
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #3 - February 26, 2009, 12:10 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 25, 2009, 03:15 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on February 25, 2009, 02:54 PM
    Quote from: awais
    But I don't see how getting beat by the parents can be that bad if you fuck up, it should be expected; unless if they leave you bruised and bloodied?

    Are you serious? No kind of child-beating is acceptable. It's only "expected" in the sense that such abuse is widespread, I hope.

    Thankfully wife beating is widely unacceptable today & regarded as a repulsive act, child beating is already unacceptable in schools & soon it'll be regarded as almost universally unacceptable, I hope.


    I'd like to second that, in fact hitting children is sick
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  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #4 - February 26, 2009, 12:12 AM
    Quote
    You don't think kids need to be smacked around sometimes for being stupid? It helped me, bad as I was


    I'm not going to pontificate on the general idea of slapping kids for being stupid, but given the reason this discussion started I will say this - any parent that is slapping their 15 year old daughter around for being seen in a car with a boy is totally in the wrong.


    Quote
    "Next time you think about doing something stupid, think about the pain I'm gon' put on your ass".


    That's interesting.  *Cheetah gets out her notepad and pen* - and did that upbringing help you to avoid religious ideologies which threaten their followers into obedience with fear?  Or did it  attract you to them?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #5 - February 26, 2009, 12:27 AM
    Tongue I didn't get beat that often.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #6 - February 26, 2009, 01:12 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 26, 2009, 12:27 AM
    Tongue I didn't get beat that often.


    That's nice awais, take a seat on the couch here.   Smiley  And tell me now, did being beaten "not that often" help you to see the bullshit inherent in the idea of an all merciful deity who tortures people eternally?

    Or  did it make it more believable, because your parents loved you, and also beat you (not that often)? 

    How did being beaten, (not that often), help you to negotiate the adult world ?  Did it really teach you right from wrong, or did it just teach you to cower in fear of a larger person with a big stick?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #7 - February 26, 2009, 01:15 AM
    Bite me. Can we split this from the main topic, so as not to furthur hijack Berbs' thread? Thank you. Tongue
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #8 - February 26, 2009, 01:20 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 26, 2009, 01:15 AM
    Bite me. Can we split this from the main topic, so as not to furthur hijack Berbs' thread? Thank you. Tongue


    Why bite me?  I haven't said anything critical of you, I'm just asking questions about the short posts you have made.  As to Berbs thread, I suspect she would be quite interested in the answers from a young man who was beaten, (not that often), on the subject of how those beatings affected him.

    If that is, you cared to give them.  But I don't really expect you to do that, unless and until you are ready to, which will obviously take a while.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #9 - February 26, 2009, 07:44 AM
    Quote from: Awais on February 26, 2009, 12:12 AM
    You don't think kids need to be smacked around sometimes for being stupid? It helped me, bad as I was
    I'm not going to pontificate on the general idea of slapping kids for being stupid,

    Is that because you agree with it, or becuase you can be bothered arguing against it?
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  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #10 - February 26, 2009, 08:28 AM
    I agree with it. I'd smack my kids if they did something stupid. They're not gonna think they can get away with shit cuz they think I'm not gonna do nuthin. "It's aight, he just gonna tell me not to do it again Roll Eyes". Although it all depends on the kid. Hopefully I don't have kids that need to be smacked all the time.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #11 - February 26, 2009, 08:49 AM
    Oh no. 

    Just a few questions to help me understand - you dont have to answer them if you feel uncomfortable about doing so-

    Not sure where you are from, but do you
    Do you think it is possible to make children listen without smacking them? 
    If not, how do you think some parents manage to raise children without hitting them
    Do you think it teaches them that it is OK to hit people under non-retaliatory condiitons? 
    Do you think it is necessary, otherwise they will never listen and end up spoilt?
    Do you think that because you got hit by your parents, you have become densensitized to the whole hitting your children thing?  And as a result, its just history repeating itself (somewhat akin to religion)
    Do you think that they listen to you out of fear, rather than respect?
    When they are older and they make their own decisions, do you think they will want to hang around a fear figure, as opposed to one they see as a friend?
    What would you do if they dont listen to you after smacking them?
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  • Re: Berbs Blog, much madness within
     Reply #12 - February 26, 2009, 09:08 AM
    Roll Eyes I dunno, maybe I won't beat them. Maybe guilt tripping will be enough.

    What would you do if your kid beat up another kid?
    Stole something?
    Broke someone's window?
    Cussed?
    Cry at the store because you're not getting whatever shit they want?
    Was disrespectful to their elders?
    Sexually harassed another kid?
    Talked back to you, repeatedly didn't listen to what you told them to do?

    Would you make them go stand in the corner for a few minutes? Take away something precious of theirs? I feel that's weak shit, and they need to feel consequences immediately and fear the consequences of future infractions.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #13 - February 26, 2009, 09:34 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 26, 2009, 09:08 AM
    I dunno, maybe I won't beat them. Maybe guilt tripping will be enough.

    What would you do if your kid beat up another kid?
    Stole something?
    Broke someone's window?
    Cussed?
    Cry at the store because you're not getting whatever shit they want?
    Was disrespectful to their elders?
    Sexually harassed another kid?
    Talked back to you, repeatedly didn't listen to what you told them to do?


    I wouldn't hit them, if that is what you are expecting me to say?

    Quote
    What would you do if your kid beat up another kid?"

    I hope you can can see why this may be more unlikely if beating does not take place under their own roof?

    If they sexually harrassed another kid, I would take them to the police. 

    For each of the others (you dont hit them for crying at the store do you?) I would talk to them, forbid them priviledges, make them understand & feel guilty about what they did, treat them in the same fashion & see how they like it, worst case scenario lock them in a room until they stop crying and both our tempers has calmed down? 

    Kids can grow into ugly monsters under the wrong guidance.  As parents they are the primarly role models and given this important position, it needs to be respected, not abused.

    P.S You missed my questions?
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #14 - February 26, 2009, 09:39 AM
    Awais, I felt much the same way as you when it came to discipline of my children, it all stemmed from knowing no other way.  It took me years to realise that even a light smack is wrong.

    A light slap stops working, you need to up your game to make it work, until eventually you find yourself needing to use more force to make the same point.

    I have hit my kids before, but I have also reported myself to social services afterwards to get the right help and to learn a better way.

    I no longer believe hitting your kids is necessary, there are plenty of other punishments that achieve a better result.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #15 - February 26, 2009, 09:41 AM
    Berbs - I thought that post would take you out of hiding!  Welcome back, or are you just tipping your toes in the water?
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #16 - February 26, 2009, 09:46 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 26, 2009, 09:41 AM
    Berbs - I thought that post would take you out of hiding!  Welcome back, or are you just tipping your toes in the water?


    Nah, I'm back now, house in order finally lol even if I am seriously lagging in my homework.  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #17 - February 26, 2009, 09:51 AM
    I dunno. I don't have kids yet, and don't plan on having them anytime soon. I'll do what I'll do when it comes to it Tongue.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #18 - February 26, 2009, 09:54 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 26, 2009, 09:51 AM
    I dunno. I don't have kids yet, and don't plan on having them anytime soon. I'll do what I'll do when it comes to it Tongue.


    Just remember, using violence, in any form, be it the extreme I felt, or the less extreme that my younger sister felt, it leads to resentment from your children as they learn that other kids DON'T get hit, and that you are to blame.  Which in turn leads to strained relationships as adults, and maybe even a broken family.

    Maybe read a couple of parenting books before you have kids, you seriously don't want to learn on the job like I had to, because then when you finally realise you have been doing it all wrong, you have to live with the guilt of the damage you have already inflicted, and believe you me that is not a fun cross to bear.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #19 - February 26, 2009, 10:01 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 26, 2009, 09:54 AM
    Maybe read a couple of parenting books before you have kids, you seriously don't want to learn on the job like I had to, because then when you finally realise you have been doing it all wrong, you have to live with the guilt of the damage you have already inflicted, and believe you me that is not a fun cross to bear.

    Sadly Berbs, that cross is not worn all parents as they have become densensitized to it (mostly because they were beat themselves). 

    History will only stop repeating itself unnecessarily when we stop and think using the brains we were given.
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #20 - February 26, 2009, 04:06 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 26, 2009, 09:54 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 26, 2009, 09:51 AM
    I dunno. I don't have kids yet, and don't plan on having them anytime soon. I'll do what I'll do when it comes to it Tongue.


    Just remember, using violence, in any form, be it the extreme I felt, or the less extreme that my younger sister felt, it leads to resentment from your children as they learn that other kids DON'T get hit, and that you are to blame.  Which in turn leads to strained relationships as adults, and maybe even a broken family.

    Maybe read a couple of parenting books before you have kids, you seriously don't want to learn on the job like I had to, because then when you finally realise you have been doing it all wrong, you have to live with the guilt of the damage you have already inflicted, and believe you me that is not a fun cross to bear.


     yes
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #21 - February 26, 2009, 04:09 PM
    From my experience if you beat your kids until they cry and stuff then they turn out good, well behaved and polite. Bit of violence in them but who hasnt?

    Downside is.... they will no longer wanna see your face when they grow up.

    The choice is yours.

    Kids dont turn out all that bad without beatings anyways.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #22 - February 26, 2009, 04:14 PM
    Depends how violent these beatings are. Me and my siblings were hit but we all turned out good and don't resent our parents for it. It was usually my mum who hit us, my dad just gave us the silent treatment. We were rarely hit though.

    I'm not very close to my mum though but that is for multiple reasons. I'm sure if my dad hit me I probably wouldn't be as close to him.

    I'm generally against it. There are better ways of teaching your kids though hitting is a very good deterrent for bad behaviour Tongue
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #23 - February 26, 2009, 04:16 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on February 26, 2009, 04:09 PM
    From my experience if you beat your kids until they cry and stuff then they turn out good, well behaved and polite. Bit of violence in them but who hasnt?

    I think you may be confusing you experience of parents who dont hit children, with those parents whose bring their children up extremely liberally i.e. parents allow them to smoke at the age of 8 etc.

    Sweden made it illegal to hit children 15 years ago.  Do you really think they have are more badly behaved & impolite youngsters.  If anything, I reckon they are more rounded and less prone to violence than most!
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #24 - February 26, 2009, 04:18 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 26, 2009, 04:16 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on February 26, 2009, 04:09 PM
    From my experience if you beat your kids until they cry and stuff then they turn out good, well behaved and polite. Bit of violence in them but who hasnt?

    I think you may be confusing you experience of parents who dont hit children, with those parents whose bring their children up extremely liberally i.e. parents allow them to smoke at the age of 8 etc.

    Sweden made it illegal to hit children 15 years ago.  Do you really think they have are more badly behaved & impolite youngsters.  If anything, I reckon they are more rounded and less prone to violence than most!



    You're right of course but all the people I know who were beat turn out good but hate parents. Speaking totally from my own perspective and those of the people I know.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #25 - February 26, 2009, 04:32 PM
    It's wrong in any case and violent people shouldn't have children in the first place.

    I am speaking objectively and not from my own experience, I don't see why it should be allowed in society and acceptable. In fact I am disgusted that a few people above (some of the same who condemned me when I first appeared) advocate hitting. Disgusting hypocrisy, if you can't handle your children without beating them then you shouldn't have had children in the first place, it's not like the world is under-populated anyway.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #26 - February 26, 2009, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on February 26, 2009, 04:18 PM
    You're right of course but all the people I know who were beat turn out good but hate parents. Speaking totally from my own perspective and those of the people I know.

    I think most people generally turn out to be good, regardless if they were beat or not.  It doesn't follow that beating is what made them good.
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #27 - February 26, 2009, 04:37 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on February 26, 2009, 04:32 PM
    shouldn't have had children in the first place, it's not like the world is under-populated anyway.

    100%  Afro, maybe we would be less prone to wars then (when did Sweden last start a fight?)
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #28 - February 26, 2009, 04:40 PM
    Sorry, but you are never going to be able to implement a prevention on people who may be violent not being able to have kids, you can however implement a cure.

    There is such a thing as learning, there is such a thing as people changing.

    Those who say "if you can't handle your children without beating them then you shouldn't have had children in the first place" is missing my confession in which I state I have, but I turned it around.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #29 - February 26, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 26, 2009, 04:40 PM
    Sorry, but you are never going to be able to implement a prevention on people who may be violent not being able to have kids, you can however implement a cure.


    That's true I agree with you there, I meant as a moral perspective they should choose not to (if they can't change or don't want to)

    Quote

    Those who say "if you can't handle your children without beating them then you shouldn't have had children in the first place" is missing my confession in which I state I have, but I turned it around.




    I read what you had to say and I liked it. What I meant was if someone is happy about child beating or complacent.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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